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doc21 wrote:

Surely this implies that the Emperor had specific roles and duties for each Primark and his Legion.

It implies that the Space Wolves believed the legions had specific roles, as is the bias of every codex from the point of view of its own faction.

jareddm wrote:

doc21 wrote:

Surely this implies that the Emperor had specific roles and duties for each Primark and his Legion.

It implies that the Space Wolves believed the legions had specific roles, as is the bias of every codex from the point of view of its own faction.

Although it was written in the Space wolves codex, it was written in the general information section at the front, describing the Imperium, Primarchs and Space Marine Legions, rather than in the Chapter specific info.

doc21 wrote:

If their only role was to be as a simple 'tool of war' every Primarch would have been a copy of Angron instead of having their own diverse characteristics.

Absolutely not.

Angron was terrible at warfare, lol.

They should have all been clones of Guilliman. Martial prowess, courage, duty, restraint, foresight.

The last thing you want is an army of mindless, irrational butchers that die in droves and have to be constantly replaced with more substandard troops of the same low caliber. Because that's what the World Eaters were.

doc21 wrote:
Now reading the new Space Wolves codex, in the section 'The Primarchs' it says 'Each was created differently and with his own unique skills, powers, and in some cases, incredible psychic potential.'

And later in the section 'The Legiones Astartes' it says 'Thus the warriors of the 20 Space Marine Legions echoed to some degree the particular strengths of the Primarch whose genes were used to develop their own implants'

Surely this implies that the Emperor had specific roles and duties for each Primark and his Legion.

If their only role was to be as a simple 'tool of war' every Primarch would have been a copy of Angron instead of having their own diverse characteristics.

This could be true, however, when the Emperor left Terra with his 20 Legions of Space Marines, those individual Legions were all the same, other than their number designator. It took time and their Primarchs appearance to really define a Legion's area of specialty. It my belief that this took time to develope. The Emperor could of had alot influence on the Legions by selecting which Legions drew which planatary assignments for the Great Crusade. But, it still my belief that the Individual Primarchs had, by far, more influence on the Legions than the Emperor.

Hmmm specialization can lead to excellence...but usually it leads to hubris..and feeling such and such is beneath them...or their skills are wasted in this mission or that...to much "I am special " leads to poor soldiers that will not do whatever is asked of them without ego...no wonder things turned out the way they did....you would have thought the Emperor with all those centuries would have learned this basic lesson of military organizations...

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

doc21 wrote:

If their only role was to be as a simple 'tool of war' every Primarch would have been a copy of Angron instead of having their own diverse characteristics.

Absolutely not.

Angron was terrible at warfare, lol.

They should have all been clones of Guilliman. Martial prowess, courage, duty, restraint, foresight.

The last thing you want is an army of mindless, irrational butchers that die in droves and have to be constantly replaced with more substandard troops of the same low caliber. Because that's what the World Eaters were.

I'd disagree - Angron was mainly mental because of having nails for brains. You never know what could have happened if you hadn't lobotomised him.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

doc21 wrote:

If their only role was to be as a simple 'tool of war' every Primarch would have been a copy of Angron instead of having their own diverse characteristics.

Absolutely not.

Angron was terrible at warfare, lol.

They should have all been clones of Guilliman. Martial prowess, courage, duty, restraint, foresight.

The last thing you want is an army of mindless, irrational butchers that die in droves and have to be constantly replaced with more substandard troops of the same low caliber. Because that's what the World Eaters were.

I'd disagree - Angron was mainly mental because of having nails for brains. You never know what could have happened if you hadn't lobotomised him.

Yeah but the fact is that he was lobotomised, and as such was pretty terrible. Whereas Guillaman had a pretty solid track record. If you had to pick one as a general, which would you pick?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

doc21 wrote:

If their only role was to be as a simple 'tool of war' every Primarch would have been a copy of Angron instead of having their own diverse characteristics.

Absolutely not.

Angron was terrible at warfare, lol.

They should have all been clones of Guilliman. Martial prowess, courage, duty, restraint, foresight.

The last thing you want is an army of mindless, irrational butchers that die in droves and have to be constantly replaced with more substandard troops of the same low caliber. Because that's what the World Eaters were.

I'd disagree - Angron was mainly mental because of having nails for brains. You never know what could have happened if you hadn't lobotomised him.

Yeah but the fact is that he was lobotomised, and as such was pretty terrible. Whereas Guillaman had a pretty solid track record. If you had to pick one as a general, which would you pick?

Saying Angron's genetics are inferior due to him being lobotomised is a non-sensical argument. Chopping off Usain Bolt's legs doesn't mean I've got superior genetics for running.

I didn't mean literal clones when I said that actually, completely didn't think about them being actual clones. Brainfart there. But I still don't know why you'd pick Angron as we don't know what he was like genetically. For all we know the emperor designed him to design Imperial Army uniforms or something. He might have been an awesome general, but he might have been like Lorgar. That's what I meant about Guillaman being a better example.

I think each Primarch was intended for a higher, specialised purpose, and their respective Legions followed on from their example due to the shared genetics. The way I see it, which is not to say it's correct, is as follows. The original fluff states that the Primarchs were stolen by Chaos and scattered. However, more recent fluff in the HH series suggests that this was by design of the Emperor (Personally, I doubt it was Chaos that spread them, but rather the Emperor himself that sent them off on their journey. Installing a Dark Age of Technology Warp Drive on each capsule isn't too far fetched I suppose). For example, in Promethean Sun by Nick Kyme, Vulkan remembers his first meeting with the Emperor:

'Humility and self sacrifice go well together, Vulkan,' he [The Emperor] replied. 'You are everything I hoped you would become.'

To me, this suggests that the Emperor had designs for Vulkan (Presumable all the other Primarchs too) and in this case, Vulkan lives up to the Emperors expectations. That the he has expectations indicates he has a plan regarding them, beyond that of simple tools of war. Similarly, each Primarch inherited a trait from the Emperor. Vulkan, inherited his aspect as a perpetual. Guilliman inherited his administrative and organisational brilliance, Lorgar, his fervour (Albeit directed at a different objective), Russ, his aggression. Perhaps poor Angron inherited his sense of Liberty - to free subjugated peoples and lead them to seize control of their own fates, but his fate was skewed by the effects of the Butcher's Nails. I could go on for each Primarch, but the point remains that each inherits a trait and each personality is shaped by the planet they landed on. I don't think this is by random chance, because if it was then why do we not see two Perpetual Primarchs, or why do Curze and Alpharius not share Corax's ability to 'Shadow Walk'. Rather I think the Emperor cast his mind over the Galaxy and picked out a planet for each of them to be 'tempered' upon.

Unfortunately, although incredibly powerful, the Emperor was still human and perhaps misjudged where he sent the Primarchs. For example, he may have made a mistake in sending Curze to Nostramo as instead of bringing order, he created a monster. Similarly, how could he foresee that Ferus Manus would battle a creature, lose his hands, have them replaced with living metal and end up promoting a cold, calculating streak in his Legion that disdains the people they fight for as weak?

This brings me to my final point. The Primarchs were created first. The Emperor imbued them with specific traits and (I believe) sent them off on specific journeys, with specific aims in mind for each. He then created the Legions from their DNA. As the Legions share the genes of their fathers, it is only logical that they share the deeper characteristics of their fathers, even if their superficial personalities differ due to different personal experiences. As an analogy, Barabas Dantioch (Iron Warriors) shares the deeper characteristics of Perturabo (An aptitude for siege warfare for arguments sake), but as his personal experience of warfare is limited to his campaigns he does not feel the losses of war as keenly as Perturabo who sees the whole Legions losses at once. Hence, Dantioch stays loyal despite his Primarch defecting.

Hence we see that the Emperor has a deeper aim in mind for Perturabo, which is shared by his Legion via DNA, but the individual actions of the Iron Warriors cannot be accounted for due to personal experience.

Some good points Warpig, however in terms of if Chaos or the Emperor scattered the Primarchs, the bit in First Heretic seems to indicate it was Chaos' doing. But who knows, that could've been a lie.

Oh, that's just the way I interpret it - I wouldn't dare assume to tell people that's 100% the case. I suppose it's equally possible that the Emperor allows Chaos to spirit them away.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Oh, that's just the way I interpret it - I wouldn't dare assume to tell people that's 100% the case. I suppose it's equally possible that the Emperor allows Chaos to spirit them away.

Yeah I got that I guess that's possible too. The whole thing is pretty much open to interpretation really, nothing about the scattering of the Primarchs is set in stone from what I've read.

 Warpig1815 wrote:

Rather I think the Emperor cast his mind over the Galaxy and picked out a planet for each of them to be 'tempered' upon.

Unfortunately, although incredibly powerful, the Emperor was still human and perhaps misjudged where he sent the Primarchs. For example, he may have made a mistake in sending Curze to Nostramo as instead of bringing order, he created a monster. Similarly, how could he foresee that Ferus Manus would battle a creature, lose his hands, have them replaced with living metal and end up promoting a cold, calculating streak in his Legion that disdains the people they fight for as weak?

This brings me to my final point. The Primarchs were created first. The Emperor imbued them with specific traits and (I believe) sent them off on specific journeys, with specific aims in mind for each.

The underlined parts are IMHO the flaw in your interpretation.
The Emperor had Plans we may never get to know, but he wouldn't have to pick up his "sons" piecemeal if he had an idea where they landed. So if he had any part in choosing the Worlds, none of his choice would be part of the ones they really landed upon.
The Legions picked their Primarchs up, not in a given Order but here and there. Some of the Stories don't sound like the Imperial Expedition expected to find one at a certain place or time.
This points to another possibility:

- if the Emperor planned to send his sons out, the time and place wasn't his choice. ( lets blame kaos ).
- if the Emperor planned to raise them "himself", as the place found by Corax in the Palace at his Audience may suggest, there is still a chance the tools to move the Primarchs existed ( maybe in case of an Emergency ) an "Chaos" re-directed the landing zones a little bit...

I'd say it wasn't the Emperors misjudgement ( mis..? he, beloved by all? 1. Impossible and 2. Heresy! ) that placed the Primarchs at the worlds we know, but the Interference of parties interested in undermining his Plans.
The first Legion was the Dark Angels. The Legion to be reunited with their Primarch first wasn't N° 1 but N°16, the Luna Wolves. There are hints the Primarchs closer to Terra got picked up sooner. But Big E wasn't always with those who found one. See A&O.
The Worlds the Primarchs landed weren't part of the IoM, those became part of it when the fleets arrived. Why should he send his sons somewhere out of his reach? In a Imperium of a million worlds you don't have to go for the hard to reach ones...

Fair points there 1hadhq. However, I do have some reservations if you could hear me out:

1hadhq wrote:The Emperor had Plans we may never get to know, but he wouldn't have to pick up his "sons" piecemeal if he had an idea where they landed. So if he had any part in choosing the Worlds, none of his choice would be part of the ones they really landed upon.

1hadhq wrote:- if the Emperor planned to send his sons out, the time and place wasn't his choice. ( lets blame kaos ).

Admittedly, it does seem plausible, indeed convincing, that Chaos would want to upset the apple cart and get rid of arguably the 20 most powerful entities aside from themselves and the Emperor. However, I find it hard to believe that the Emperor, in all his wisdom and acumen, would be confounded by the plans of entities whom he knows exist. Why wouldn't he simply erect an incredibly powerful Geller field around the lab. Similarly, why would Chaos strike only at the Primarchs and not at the Emperor himself. They could have transported him to a daemon world, alighted there and I doubt even the Emperor could fend off the 4 most powerful entities in the galaxy. This seeming negligence is out of character for the man who lays plots within plots within schemes within half-truths - and yet the most important project he has worked on to date is suddenly foiled by Chaos snatching them out from under his nose. So, that leads me to the conclusion that, if it wasn't by his direct dispersion of the Primarchs, then perhaps he allowed Chaos to whip them away to test them.

Similarly, the worlds on which the Primarchs landed each presented unique moral and physical challenges. None of the Primarchs landed on a peaceful backwater agri-world with no attacks, no political challenges and everyone living in harmony eating granola. Now of course we know this is plot armour to ensure that they become avatars of war, but within the fluff it certainly strikes me that the planets were selected to ensure (again) that the Primarchs were tested. Now, why would Chaos send Guilliman to a planet that, although it had wars, had nothing so dangerous it would kill a Primarch - surely they would rather send it somewhere like Nocturne where the chance of death is much higher (And lets note that even Nocturne couldn't kill the Lord of Drakes). Again, I'm still persuaded that the Planets were 'selected' in some way. If Magnus could project himself across the Galaxy, then I'm sure the even more powerful Emperor could do the same and select planets with specific challenges.

1hadhq wrote:The Legions picked their Primarchs up, not in a given Order but here and there. Some of the Stories don't sound like the Imperial Expedition expected to find one at a certain place or time.

1hadhq wrote:The first Legion was the Dark Angels. The Legion to be reunited with their Primarch first wasn't N° 1 but N°16, the Luna Wolves. There are hints the Primarchs closer to Terra got picked up sooner. But Big E wasn't always with those who found one. See A&O.
The Worlds the Primarchs landed weren't part of the IoM, those became part of it when the fleets arrived. Why should he send his sons somewhere out of his reach? In a Imperium of a million worlds you don't have to go for the hard to reach ones...

Now granted, this is a very convincing point - why send them so far away. Why not give specific orders to head straight there to pick them up? Why not be there in person? So, I'm not sure that the order of picking them up was so important. If we hypothetically go with my point of view, then I suspect the goal was to 'make men of them'. Hence the aim would be to use the challenges of each planet to mould each Primarch into a personality that was adept at specific aspects of peace and war. Whether that was successful or not would be an unforeseen conclusion as (as I explained in my first post at the bottom), the reaction to a situation is very much dependent on personal experience and who raised the Primarch in the first instance (Vulkan had a kind and diligent 'father' in N'bel, but Curze had no father other than the streets, shadows and the gangs - and those two later became most bitter enemies).

1hadhq wrote: *snip* if the Emperor planned to raise them "himself", as the place found by Corax in the Palace at his Audience may suggest *snip*

I will concede to you, it makes no sense to send them so far away, but you know yourself that in life sometimes sacrifices have to be made to get a better result. Concepts such as 'You get what you pay for' and 'Quality not Quanttity' are derived from a sense that through a hardship such as investing more time or money, you get a better product. Perhaps the Emperor selected each world, knowing that it would take a while to get there but hoping it would be worth the wait and pay off having his sons being tutored by the practical challenges of life rather than the theoreticals that he could present in the Imperial Palace where they would be exposed to no moral choices.

Now I can't explain why each world was 'stumbled upon' if the Emperor had selected each one, but perhaps he felt it best to let the Crusade run it's natural course, rather than sacrifice strategic goals to chase his sons. This ties into the above point that maybe he was willing to delay their discovery for the best outcome and instead found them as the Crusade progressed naturally. IT makes no strategic sense to push deep into enemy territory to secure a goal that they have no idea about and expose you force to being cut off etc. Better to simply wait, not draw attention to the Primarch and catch him up when the area is secure. Think of soldiers breaching a room with hostages inside. They plan first, break into the room, neutralise the threats, secure all the points where reinforcements could attack from and only once the situation is secure do they move the hostages (Ok a bit simpliistic, but you get the drift).

1hadhq wrote:I'd say it wasn't the Emperors misjudgement ( mis..? he, beloved by all? 1. Impossible and 2. Heresy! ) that placed the Primarchs at the worlds we know, but the Interference of parties interested in undermining his Plans.

Forgive me - I shall submit myself for righteous purging once we're done here.

I should clarify that what I should have said is possibly not 'misjudged' but rather he couldn't have foreseen all the myriad factors that would make Curze a murderer and not a Judge or sorts. He possibly couldn't foresee that instead of using normal 'Justice', Curze would instead use fear and in doing so would damn himself.

TL-DR - Well I can't really sum up that amount of speculation. I will concede that you points are well made 1hadhq, and I do find myself agreeing that it does seem suspect, but I still hold reservations.

 Warpig1815 wrote:


Fair points there 1hadhq. However, I do have some reservations if you could hear me out:

I will.

Admittedly, it does seem plausible, indeed convincing, that Chaos would want to upset the apple cart and get rid of arguably the 20 most powerful entities aside from themselves and the Emperor.

In the HH story arc, chaos plans to corrupt half of his 20 Primarchs ( 10 IIRC , 1 resists...) , so its rather a case of them wanting some toys too. It doesn't look like chaos aimed to destroy Big E ( maybe they couldn't ) or his Primarchs ( maybe too shiny as new servants ) so the 2nd best solution was to alter the path of the Primarchs to worm they way into their minds. To corrupt isn't a instant deal. Takes time.

However, I find it hard to believe that the Emperor, in all his wisdom and acumen, would be confounded by the plans of entities whom he knows exist. Why wouldn't he simply erect an incredibly powerful Geller field around the lab.

I think it was ( the outcast dead ) where the Emperor played a game with a person he also talked to about his options. The Emperor mentioned " he could not see past the beginning of the great crusade " ,so maybe all he could find out was the glorious start of his fleets into the stars.
The same book also had him thinking about a method to win; To win in the overall game against chaos. A game he deemed lost but had an idea how to turn the table... Maybe we will never read what this was.

Similarly, why would Chaos strike only at the Primarchs and not at the Emperor himself. They could have transported him to a daemon world, alighted there and I doubt even the Emperor could fend off the 4 most powerful entities in the galaxy. This seeming negligence is out of character for the man who lays plots within plots within schemes within half-truths - and yet the most important project he has worked on to date is suddenly foiled by Chaos snatching them out from under his nose. So, that leads me to the conclusion that, if it wasn't by his direct dispersion of the Primarchs, then perhaps he allowed Chaos to whip them away to test them.

Chaos left Horus to die at the final battle. Nobody knows if chaos could take the blow or not. But consider this: chaos is not 1 but 4 backstabbing-happy entities. Maybe the risk to end as to weak and get smashed by one or two or three former "allies" was too much.
Again, we will never know if chaos is as powerful as it claims to be.

To allow chaos to lay their hands on his project.... I doubt it. One of the HH books mentioned the fields protecting the tubes. ( first heretic ? ).
The vessels carriyng the primarchs had no Problem to move through an atmosphere and to keep the passenger safe whilst making nice craters into the surface of these planets.
You don't put someone into something "spaceworthy" if you have no plans. Plans which aren't disclosed to anyone , except Malcador maybe.
Without a source, we can't even get close to the intended target destination since we don't know how these vessels moved exactly. Sublight? Warp drives? magic ?

Similarly, the worlds on which the Primarchs landed each presented unique moral and physical challenges. None of the Primarchs landed on a peaceful backwater agri-world with no attacks, no political challenges and everyone living in harmony eating granola. Now of course we know this is plot armour to ensure that they become avatars of war, but within the fluff it certainly strikes me that the planets were selected to ensure (again) that the Primarchs were tested. Now, why would Chaos send Guilliman to a planet that, although it had wars, had nothing so dangerous it would kill a Primarch - surely they would rather send it somewhere like Nocturne where the chance of death is much higher (And lets note that even Nocturne couldn't kill the Lord of Drakes). Again, I'm still persuaded that the Planets were 'selected' in some way. If Magnus could project himself across the Galaxy, then I'm sure the even more powerful Emperor could do the same and select planets with specific challenges.

Sure.
But chaos would like some chaos "seeds" in place to corrupt the Primarch. "The emperors choice" may not provide what chaos is looking for. An Altered course is the minimum they did.

Now granted, this is a very convincing point - why send them so far away. Why not give specific orders to head straight there to pick them up? Why not be there in person? So, I'm not sure that the order of picking them up was so important. If we hypothetically go with my point of view, then I suspect the goal was to 'make men of them'. Hence the aim would be to use the challenges of each planet to mould each Primarch into a personality that was adept at specific aspects of peace and war. Whether that was successful or not would be an unforeseen conclusion as (as I explained in my first post at the bottom), the reaction to a situation is very much dependent on personal experience and who raised the Primarch in the first instance (Vulkan had a kind and diligent 'father' in N'bel, but Curze had no father other than the streets, shadows and the gangs - and those two later became most bitter enemies).

The Order became Important when his most beloved, his son he found first, Horus, got the job of warmaster...
OK maybe not. Or?

The point is, in M40 you would have 1 million worlds to place 20 Primarchs. In M30, it is either all of the Planets occupied by humans or ... very very few.
Big E planned to reunite Terra, then reunite the realms of Man. Terra was conquered with thunder warriors, worked but a bit of a unstable breed of soldiers. Next step is taken with legiones astartes, the space marines, led by Generals until they had Primarchs to lead them.
The Primarchs came first. Got scattered. Legions were built and maybe the 1. has seen the end of the unification wars at Terra. So maybe the first achievement of the space marines was to bring the Emperors rule to the stars, from the solar system onwards.
The Legions started without Primarchs around. Thus, anyone selecting Planets for the Primarchs had to do so pre-great crusade, and the safe bet on controlling a world was maybe Terra itself at that time. Reliable star maps may have existed.
But Mars had to be convinced to join, the saturnine shipyards added to the space capabilities of the new Imperium. Lots of things to do to leave the system. Meanwhile, the Primarchs he created to lead his armies are somewhere else, under someones influence he doesn't know.
Very risky.

So good idea: the school of real life, vs high risk: kids you are not proud of.

Yes, it may work.
But we have an Emperor who placed a C'Tan ( or shard for the newcrons ) at Mars in the age of the Knights. Pre flight that is. And the same Emperor can't provide the environment neccessary to raise 20 kids , right there at terra ?
I like your idea. OtoH I don't believe everything was going "according to plan" and yet, in current BL/HH we have not just chaos but also this silly cabal sabotaging his righteous rule. People bowed to the Emperor cause they had to. But as the heresy has shown, some planned to cancel their oaths of loyality very very fast. It won't need many who were deemed trustworthy to open a chance to alter some fates.

(Ok a bit simpliistic, but you get the drift).

Yes I do.
But Commanders who need a taxi and you have to wait for them, aren't as useful as those who catch up when the expediton moves out. If you have 200 years to reconquer, waste 10 of them because the Legion isn't working at 100% without its Primarch, a little more planning in placement and an extra tour is maybe worth it.?

Well I can't really sum up that amount of speculation. I will concede that you points are well made 1hadhq, and I do find myself agreeing that it does seem suspect, but I still hold reservations.

With the Emperor , here is always more than 1 truth. Myths and speculation are good.

Bring the galaxy to it's knees

1hadhq wrote:With the Emperor , here is always more than 1 truth. Myths and speculation are good. [*quote]

This is perhaps the only truth we really know about the Emperor and I doubt GW will ever fully expand upon the tidbits they throw us (Why would they - they make money off it after all!). I just like the speculation

1hadhq wrote:I don't believe everything was going "according to plan" and yet, in current BL/HH we have not just chaos but also this silly cabal sabotaging his righteous rule.

I'm completely with you on that at least! I never really liked the whole Cabal plot. I get it that the plan seems to work along the lines of starve Chaos of human emotion (Their 'food') and they'll die, but what about the Eldar? The Eldar 'feed' Slannesh their souls unless they go into a soul stone and the Dark Eldar feed Slannesh outright upon death, so even if they kill off all the Humans, the Eldar Cabal themselves will still be responsible for the continued existence of Slannesh until their God of Death comes into existence - and even 10,000 years later they're still nowhere near. Plan seems a bit flawed IMHO.

ok here's an intreasting theory...

what if the scattering of the primarchs was the doing of the Emperor AND Chaos., what if it was basicly the bargin between em. sort of a gamble on the nature of mankind.

"if left to their own devices while growing up, would the greatest of men, become beauties.. or beasts?" it's an intreasting idea, no?

I think first heretic establishes that it was chaos mostly

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
I think first heretic establishes that it was chaos mostly

except First Heretic is the words of the chaos gods. I don't think we should nesscarily take what they say as unvarnished truth

The space wolves are actually special though. They shook off the role later on, but originally, they were made to be tools of execution. They are the legion that is sent to cull traitor legions (see: Missing primarchs) They were made to destroy any of their brothers that went astray. That's why it was so important for Chaos to distract the wolves with Magnus who was still mostly loyal

 Pyeatt wrote:
The space wolves are actually special though. They shook off the role later on, but originally, they were made to be tools of execution. They are the legion that is sent to cull traitor legions (see: Missing primarchs) They were made to destroy any of their brothers that went astray. That's why it was so important for Chaos to distract the wolves with Magnus who was still mostly loyal

It's never explicitly stated the Wolves had anything to do with the missing legions. There's a couple of hints but nothing solid. And it's only ever the Wolves themselves that say they're the 'Executioners' so it could be self appointed.

 changerofways wrote:
As I see it:

Dark Angels- Promote ceremony and brotherhood
Emperor's Children- Promote greatness and the quest for perfection, to be role models
Iron Warriors- To wage siege warfare
White Scars- To hunt the more evasive and powerful enemies of the IoM
Space Wolves- To destroy entire civilizations
Imperial Fists- To design powerful defenses for the planets of the IoM
Night Lords- To teach the enemies of the IoM to fear mankind
Blood Angels- To act as the vanguard in battle, to sacrifice themselves for the IoM
Iron Hands- To explore the use of cybernetics and technology in the every day lives of the people of the IoM
World Eaters- Really they are a combination of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Night Lords. Not really sure what their unique purpose was.
Ultramarines- To oversee and administer the planets and resources of the the IoM
Death Guard- To wage chemical warfare
Thousand Sons- To research and perfect the use of sorcery
Sons of Horus- To lead other legions into battle
Word Bearers- To control the masses with the tool of worship
Salamanders- To perfect the art of craftsmanship, to build
Raven Guard- To stealthily eliminate the enemies of the IoM
Alpha Legion- Oversee espionage and Imperial Intelligence

THis is more of a list of what goals the legions were pursuing immidiatly before, during, and after the Horus Heresy. Many of the legions were fairly generic before their primarchs took control, and after they did those specialty niches are more a function of their primarchs attitudes, personalities, and styles. While the geneseed of their primarch gave them a slight disposition towards one thing or another most were generic. the specific examples I would point out in this list, and some that people have posted earlier in the thread are:

1. Night lords: they didn't become murderous bastards until after cruze took over and started recruiting criminals from Nostramo
2. Thousand Sons: While they were more likely to be psykers, they were never intended to perfect sorcery, as the emperor thought it to be dangerous ( I have never understood why the emperor would create Magnus to be the Alpha Psyker primarch, and then take his one gift ant tell him it is evil.)
3. Iron Hands: They were not created to explore bionics. Their disdain for emotion and preference of logic was a function of their primarch's attitude,and also them shunning the mistake that got him killed. and they adopted bionics as and advantage and their obsession grew as time went on. it was never their designated role
4. The brotherhood of the Dark Angels was a function of the society of Caliban that The Lion was brought up in.
5. The Word Bearers were not only publicly humiliated and censured for the use of religion, but the legion itself wasn't all that zealous until Loregar and by extension, Erebus really were given authority. because f the spread of the imperial truth, this idea would have been completely antithetical to the Emperor.

 changerofways wrote:
As I see it:

Dark Angels- Promote ceremony and brotherhood
Emperor's Children- Promote greatness and the quest for perfection, to be role models
Iron Warriors- To wage siege warfare
White Scars- To hunt the more evasive and powerful enemies of the IoM
Space Wolves- To destroy entire civilizations
Imperial Fists- To design powerful defenses for the planets of the IoM
Night Lords- To teach the enemies of the IoM to fear mankind
Blood Angels- To act as the vanguard in battle, to sacrifice themselves for the IoM
Iron Hands- To explore the use of cybernetics and technology in the every day lives of the people of the IoM
World Eaters- Really they are a combination of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Night Lords. Not really sure what their unique purpose was.
Ultramarines- To oversee and administer the planets and resources of the the IoM
Death Guard- To wage chemical warfare
Thousand Sons- To research and perfect the use of sorcery
Sons of Horus- To lead other legions into battle
Word Bearers- To control the masses with the tool of worship
Salamanders- To perfect the art of craftsmanship, to build
Raven Guard- To stealthily eliminate the enemies of the IoM
Alpha Legion- Oversee espionage and Imperial Intelligence

My take on this after reading most novels. I might still be wrong though. ALso i do not think the emperor specificaly created them for these exact purposes, but rather they grew into these purposes. They grew up in perfecr environments to become these great men.

Dark Angels- To adapt to every situation and strike in ways the enemy does not expect
Emperor's Children- Much like the samurai. To pursue perfection in battle
Iron Warriors- To wage siege warfare and drive out the most entrenched enemies < yup
White Scars- To strike quickly where the enemy is weakest and overwhelm them quickly
Space Wolves- To complete any task no other legion could do. The name. Executioners is well deserved after annihalating 2 legions and almost a third...
Imperial Fists- To protect that which is dearest, for the emperor that would be his empire
Night Lords- To teach the enemies of the IoM to fear mankind. I believe this to be quite accurate but not exactly in the way you state. But ill let this stand for i cannot find the right words
Blood Angels- To act as the vanguard in battle, to strike where is needed most.
Iron Hands- Their exact purpose eludes me.
World Eaters- To arrive and annihalate.
Ultramarines- To think and access situations is what the ultramarines do best. Always use the most practical way to minimize futile actions
Death Guard- To wage chemical warfare Id like to add. And to endure the most harsh conditions
Thousand Sons- To research and perfect the use of sorcery. The emperor warned them more than once not to go that far. Yet they did. Exact purpose would be more like scribes and historians next to their fighting qualities
Sons of Horus- To lead by example
Word Bearers- To control the masses with the tool of worship. The emperor condemmed worship. He even eradicated all religion on Terra before heading in to space. More like, to bring voice to the will of the emperor


Salamanders- To perfect the art of craftsmanship, to build
Raven Guard- To stealthily eliminate the enemies of the IoM
Alpha Legion- Oversee espionage and Imperial Intelligence

I cant find the words for these 3

The Space Wolves did not destroy the 2 missing legions. Well, there's nothing concrete to say they did. Tiny little hints that could mean anything.

I thought their purpose was to capture the galaxy.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Space Wolves did not destroy the 2 missing legions. Well, there's nothing concrete to say they did. Tiny little hints that could mean anything.

Agreed, trouble is SW writers seem to be required to include something about the 'extra special' nature of them. They have better senses, more RAGE(TM), channel 'Fenris spirits' instead of the warp (or something...) so you can see why SW players often tow this line.

Realistically in the HH novels there's about as much evidence to suggest the lost legions were amalgamated into the Ultramarines as there is to suggest the Wolves destroyed them.

MarsNZ wrote:


Realistically in the HH novels there's about as much evidence to suggest the lost legions were amalgamated into the Ultramarines as there is to suggest the Wolves destroyed them.

Or that they were Alpha Legion

MarsNZ wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Space Wolves did not destroy the 2 missing legions. Well, there's nothing concrete to say they did. Tiny little hints that could mean anything.

Agreed, trouble is SW writers seem to be required to include something about the 'extra special' nature of them. They have better senses, more RAGE(TM), channel 'Fenris spirits' instead of the warp (or something...) so you can see why SW players often tow this line.

Realistically in the HH novels there's about as much evidence to suggest the lost legions were amalgamated into the Ultramarines as there is to suggest the Wolves destroyed them.

Yeah I know, it's just annoying that everyone seems to act like its a fact that the SW destroyed the missing legions. We don't know what happened to the missing legions and probably never will, that's the whole point. There's not even many hints that it was the SW from what I remember.