trying to create a melee army

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**Me Like Burnaz**

vipoid wrote:
Could you give us more information on his list?

Lots and lots of boyz. The elites, hqs and heavy supports vary based on the opponent. I don't think he has any 'lists" as much as he takes what he knows about an opponent and starts setting up boys leaving enough points for the supporting units he needs. He never refers to paper that I've ever seen.

vipoid wrote:
Also, I don't suppose there are any battle reports with his list we could look at?

I doubt it, he has a low opinion of all things internetish and wouldn't bother writing down what he has done. I don't think anyone who plays at our game shop does much in the line of after action reports. Now I'm rather OCD and have tried to come up with a shorthand system to record battles but have nothing I like worked up yet.

**Big Blind Bill**

NauticalKendall wrote:
Theirs ALWAYS THE GOOD FAITHFUL DARKK ELDAR WHO NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG TO ANY BODY EVER.

I'm not sure why I said it like that but I liked it.

Dark Eldar have

-Okay, good, and Excellent CC choices in units like, Wyches, Wracks, HQ's, MC's, INCUBI, thats right, INCUBI. AP2 I5 weapons, holy cow! BIKES!?

-Various ways to get to the bulk of most armies via, Fast OPEN TOPPED(you can assault out of these!) skimmers that may jink on a 3+, no mishap deepstrike shenanigans(ho boy covens Talos/cronos/haemy formation for the distraction carnifex, or anything else that might survive a round of shooting.)

-They're shooty, so you can shoot as you move forwards!

-various wargear options to demoralize your enemies, that may or may not help.

okay so they're fragile. Bahumbug, so are Orks save for a few units. And Eldar, and every army that's not marines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fairness DE are a shooty army, but are more than capable of doing a good CC army as long as you're not jumping into the competitive scene

DE were very shooty last edition (as well as having their 1 cc unit, the beast star). With their new codex and suppliment they can can do cc pretty well too.

However the units you suggested are pretty bad. I mean wyches? Really? No they can't have haywire grenades they won't be seen in any competitive lists.

Grotesques are the DE cc powerhouse unit of 7th edition. A haemonculus Covens army can use them to great effect, and they are not as weak as other units.

Grotesques with a haemonculus will cause a lot of damage to most targets they reach, just keep them away from walkers and they should do well.

**UnadoptedPuppy**

My Ravenwing love CC. They also love auto H&R, shooting (RW grenade launchers) and getting back into CC.

**jreilly89**

I would run Ork Hordes for fun craziness or Daemon Melee/Psychic army for pretty good competitiveness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
My Ravenwing love CC. They also love auto H&R, shooting (RW grenade launchers) and getting back into CC.

How are they auto H&R? Even at I6+, a roll of 6 is still a fail.

**th3maninblak**

jreilly89 wrote:
I would run Ork Hordes for fun craziness or Daemon Melee/Psychic army for pretty good competitiveness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
My Ravenwing love CC. They also love auto H&R, shooting (RW grenade launchers) and getting back into CC.

How are they auto H&R? Even at I6+, a roll of 6 is still a fail.

Ravenwing company banner lets all friendly units within 12 inches to auto pass hit and run, and also roll 4d6 instead of 3 for their hit and run distance, if i remember correctly.

**NauticalKendall**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
NauticalKendall wrote:
Theirs ALWAYS THE GOOD FAITHFUL DARKK ELDAR WHO NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG TO ANY BODY EVER.

I'm not sure why I said it like that but I liked it.

Dark Eldar have

-Okay, good, and Excellent CC choices in units like, Wyches, Wracks, HQ's, MC's, INCUBI, thats right, INCUBI. AP2 I5 weapons, holy cow! BIKES!?

-Various ways to get to the bulk of most armies via, Fast OPEN TOPPED(you can assault out of these!) skimmers that may jink on a 3+, no mishap deepstrike shenanigans(ho boy covens Talos/cronos/haemy formation for the distraction carnifex, or anything else that might survive a round of shooting.)

-They're shooty, so you can shoot as you move forwards!

-various wargear options to demoralize your enemies, that may or may not help.

okay so they're fragile. Bahumbug, so are Orks save for a few units. And Eldar, and every army that's not marines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fairness DE are a shooty army, but are more than capable of doing a good CC army as long as you're not jumping into the competitive scene

DE were very shooty last edition (as well as having their 1 cc unit, the beast star). With their new codex and suppliment they can can do cc pretty well too.

However the units you suggested are pretty bad. I mean wyches? Really? No they can't have haywire grenades they won't be seen in any competitive lists.

Grotesques are the DE cc powerhouse unit of 7th edition. A haemonculus Covens army can use them to great effect, and they are not as weak as other units.

Grotesques with a haemonculus will cause a lot of damage to most targets they reach, just keep them away from walkers and they should do well.

I did say as long as you weren't jumping into competitive play. Most CC lists don't stand in competitive play. But you can build a very fun, decent list for casual games with Dark Eldar.

**vipoid**

Even in casual play though, wyches still suck.

It's like trying to build a shooting army around a detachment of pea-shooters.

**Davor**

Can't rememeber what it's called or which data slate it is, but there is a Genestealer formation where you at the start of the game, you can place your Genestealers WITHIN 6" on an enemy unit.

So it's either they get shot up on turn one or wreck face on turn 2. If they get shot up on turn one, hopefully your other melee units will not get shot up then.

Is it viable? No idea. Can it be fun? Yes it can.

**NauticalKendall**

vipoid wrote:
Even in casual play though, wyches still suck.

It's like trying to build a shooting army around a detachment of pea-shooters.

in fairness, they're better than Gaunts. Yeah, they where nerfed from before, yeah they're not really that good. But what CC oriented troop is good?

**vipoid**

NauticalKendall wrote:
in fairness, they're better than Gaunts. Yeah, they where nerfed from before, yeah they're not really that good.

Gaunts are much better by virtue of being 4pts per model (and also have access to good guns, if desired). Much like IG, that sort of price opens up a lot of options.

Though, they're still not great because GW has an inexplicable hatred of infantry.

NauticalKendall wrote:
But what CC oriented troop is good?

Are there many melee troops in the game?

I know nids have a few (all of which sadly suck), but I thought most other armies just had shooting ones?

Although, are any of the Chaos Daemon troops good? Aside from Pink Horrors they're all melee, IIRC.

**EVIL INC**

A gaunt or a wych vs a guardsman in close combat usually rips the guardsman to pieces.
Also, dont forget that being good at melee doesnt mean the model has to forgo owning a gun or the knowledge of how to use it. For example, look at the grey knight. not bad shooting and still can do some damage in close combat (insta killing a carnifex isnt bad at all). There are many other units that are good at both shooting and close combat as well.

**vipoid**

EVIL INC wrote:
A gaunt or a wych vs a guardsman in close combat usually rips the guardsman to pieces.

Thankfully, that guardsmen brought 39 mates, a priest and 4 Heavy Weapons Teams.

**EVIL INC**

vipoid wrote:
EVIL INC wrote:
A gaunt or a wych vs a guardsman in close combat usually rips the guardsman to pieces.

Thankfully, that guardsmen brought 39 mates, a priest and 4 Heavy Weapons Teams.

How many points does those extra 39 mates, priest, 4 heavy weapons teams cost vs the 4 points for the gaunt? Heck, how many points does the single guardsmen cost for that 4 point gaunt? lol

**BlaxicanX**

How to Play a Melee Army

Step 1. Play Daemons

Step 2. Take 4 mastery level 2 Slaaneshi Heralds

Step 3. Take multiple squads of Seekers or Khorne Hounds (or both)

Step 4. Make your entire army invisible with your four Slaaneshi Heralds

Step 5. Put half your army in assault range turn 2 by abusing Khorne Hounds' scout move and Seeker's ~23'' per turn movement

Step 6. Win every game against non-Tau, lose every game against Tau

Godspeed.

**NauticalKendall**

Demons are probably the best CC oriented army. But my point about the Wyches is that they seem to be better than other CC infantry in the Troops slot. I think a full mob of Hormagaunts, are the only thing as "good" as they are as far as punching. And that leans to the side of the wyches because of the better save and able to shoot before charging.

But this is strictly speaking TROOPS, I'm not even sure how many others there are other than the Crusader squads.

**BrianDavion**

EVIL INC wrote:
vipoid wrote:
EVIL INC wrote:
A gaunt or a wych vs a guardsman in close combat usually rips the guardsman to pieces.

Thankfully, that guardsmen brought 39 mates, a priest and 4 Heavy Weapons Teams.

How many points does those extra 39 mates, priest, 4 heavy weapons teams cost vs the 4 points for the gaunt? Heck, how many points does the single guardsmen cost for that 4 point gaunt? lol

a guardsman is about 5 points a model.

**skolirvarden**

I think the days of pure CC armies (if ever such a day really existed) are long gone. You can still do plenty of damage in CC, but you need a method of insertion (yes, I realise that sounds bad

), ie tanks, drop pods, deep striking or everything on bikes, and/or a distraction/covering fire.

A combination of these is best, just in case you're ever up against an army that does particularly well against one method. Basically, it's not just about finding a unit that can tear the limbs off everything it comes into contact with-you need to have a way of getting right in their face without being shot to pieces. Then your CC units start messing everyone up.

As such, these tactics generally only make up part of an armies overall strategy-for SM, Assault termies are a common heavy hitter that gets let loose. But you'll rarely see them without a tank getting them to where they need to be, or a hell of a lot of covering fire and careful positioning should they deep strike.

**koooaei**

Ailaros wrote:
If you want a melee army, don't bother with hordes. They haven't worked since 6th dropped.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/623943.page