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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:17:09
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Fresh-Faced New User
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As the title suggest I am trying to decide which melee army yo go. . I have it Down to a couple of choices. . I not a fan of vehicles so I would prefer to steer away from any of those but I knowni will need anti vehicle and anti air units. . I am ok with a drop pod army. . I am trying to build a local competitive melee army. . My thoughts are space wolves doing wolves and drop pods. . going Chaos deamon psychic/melee or going tyranids swarm at melee but what I read in tyrnid they are mai ly a short range shooty army. . any advice would be appriciated
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:35:20
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Hoo boy. A dedicated melee army in 6.5th ed? Okay, here are a couple things to keep in mind. Games Workshop's current design paradigm seems to indicate that they want armies to run up the battlefield and get shot to piece along the way in order to get to grips with people. Units can't generally charge out of reserve, deep strike, outflank or out of many vehicles. You also don't want to keep your boyz in boxes so that's going to be a problem since the top tier armies right now are nearly always going to have excellent anti-infantry power. So, keeping all of that in mind, I'd go with Orkz. You have enough guys to have a chance of making it to the enemy lines while footslogging. You can also check out Blood Angels since the new codex and formations made a melee BA army somewhat viable.
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:39:34
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Melee army?!?
Yeah Orks. Or I have seen some Chaos Daemons do it.
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DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+
"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:54:53
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Mellee army that can work without transports: orks, blood angels, csm, space wolves, damons. Necrons to some extent though unlike the others you're handicapping yourself quite hard if you go without vehicles as they have mazing ranged support vehicles. At least until the update.
Orks - greentide works. A truck full of boyz is always helpful but you can go without it. Stormboyz or bikes can do the job too. Ranged support can be easilly done by big gunz and lootas none of which are vehicles.
Blood Angels - lots of jumppacks and droppodded marines. Thouh, they have some nice vehicles to help out like a stormraven or a fast tri-las-pred which are better at ranged support than devastators.
CSM - spawns + indeps, infiltrating 20-strong marine squads, infiltrating chosen and Cypher with formation, escape hatch to launch a bunch of guyz + indep. Ranged support is done by obliterators and havoks. Can absolutely go without vehicles and not loose much. Dragons are quite useful, however and can provide much needed s6 ap3 torrent flamer. And maulerfiends are nice for a mellee rush. Vehicles too. But this things are daemon engines, so can be modelled more as daemons than engines but that's a stretch.
Space wolves - TWC, wolves, droppods.
Daemons - no need to explain here.
Crons can go wraithwing + scarab farm. Though, you'll struggle to get long-ranged support without barges and flyers. All might change with a new release, however.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 20:57:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:56:45
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
Spearfish, SD (ass end of nowhere)
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Orks and Tyranids seem pretty evenly matched for melee. When they clash it's much like orks on orks. Whomever gets the charge usually wins the melee. You will spend more money on Nids than Orks since you can't really bash up Nids from other stuff. Half my Ork vehicle fleet is bashed up from toys and such giving my army a real orkish feel. But if you don't want to do vehicles I'd go with Nids as they don't have them.
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Everything will burn if you get it hot enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 20:58:25
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Haven't listed tyranids cause haven't seen mellee tyranids in a while. They mostly go flyrant spam and rain s6 dakka from the skies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 21:07:36
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Possible with a variety of different armies. Where it was possible to just waltz across the battlefield and start shredding before, now you need to use strategy and tactics for it to be effective.
Your best bet is speed covering fire, use of terraign and other things to help make it effective. My advice would be to go to a variety of sites and ead up on tactics/strategy sections along with army builder sections. This way, you'll be able to find people who are willing to help instead of soapbox about the "good old days" lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 21:10:54
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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1. BA just got a lot to make a viable CC army in the game. you can easily do this without vehicles (drop pods likely needed of course) and Storm ravens or preds do help a lot.
2. SW TWC. nuff said lol
3. Tyranid swarm got better with drop pods , actually there's several options for builds there now with the new model releases MC spam is cheaper and easier to paint than swarm of course. (drop pods realllllly helped this armies options)
I LOVE cc armies my self and personally found that BA and Nids were my fav.
*** Fair warning Swarm armies are a paaaaaiiinnnn to paint + store + set up lol. So many many models I still have to paint lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 21:11:39
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Melee armies rely on delivery tricks. Daemons have the advantage of replacements for their dead but other than that you're heavily reliant on transports, mobility-upgraded troops (Bikes, Jump, et cetera), and Deep Strike. You need to build an army that can get stuck in against fast enemies, weather shooting and Overwatch to get in, and have enough models alive to do some damage once it gets there.
Daemons: Not all that fast, but psychic spam means you can replenish your troops faster than most enemies can kill them. Be'lakor, Heralds of Tzeentch, and Pink Horrors should start on the table, Deep Strike in heavy hitters and summon more troops constantly. Soul Grinders are your only AA and if the other guy decides to bring a Knight you lose; consider CSM allies for more/better guns and AA (Hellchickens with the autocannon are actually quite good).
Space Wolves: The premier Drop Pod force. Grey Hunters aren't as hilariously underpriced as they once were but the theory remains the same: load as many Drop Pods as you can with Space Wolves, drop in, melta any tanks, and charge anyone dumb enough to sit around waiting for you. Consider looking into FW Drop Pod variants, the Lucius makes Drop Podding in Dreadnaughts to back up your ground troops more survivable and the Deathstorm (while long and annoying to play) can clear out light troops very effectively and free up your Space Wolves to fight the big stuff.
Blood Angels; The centerpeice here is Assault Marine semi-deathstars. Sanguinary Priests are full HQ choices now so you might want to field multiple detachments, but the goal is to put together a fast, tough, and hard-hitting block of Assault Marines, Deep Strike them onto the field, and chase down the fleeing foe.
Orks: If you have the patience, at least. A footslogging assault Ork army will carpet the table and run forward until it dies or it hits something.
Deathwing: A hybrid setup since you need some guns, but this is another Deep Strike-oriented approach. The advantage comes from getting all your Deep Strikers turn one, the disadvantage is that your Deep Strikers are slow and can be wrecked by most guns these days. Belial, at least two large Deathwing squads with a mix of hammers and heavy weapons, and potentially Dreadnaughts for backup are the core of this force.
Tyranids. Having no vehicles building a no-vehicle Tyranid army is not difficult. Venomthropes to keep your big bugs alive and a mixture of big bugs to kill stuff and little bugs to keep the enemy off your big bugs are important here; consider the Skyblight formation (a Hive Tyrant with a squad of Gargoyles to use as ablative wounds), and a plain flying Hive Tyrant is key for AA. Automatically Appended Next Post: With vehicles there are a couple more approaches ( CSM proper, air delivery, Orks in Trukks, some weird DE builds), but those are the ones that come to mind as working best with no vehicles. Automatically Appended Next Post: koooaei wrote:Haven't listed tyranids cause haven't seen mellee tyranids in a while. They mostly go flyrant spam and rain s6 dakka from the skies.
I have a friend who runs 'Nids who is having the time of his life with the Skyblight Swarm; it's a Hive Tyrant moving in jump pack mode with twenty Gargoyles it can use as ablative wounds. It lends itself better to melee 'Nids.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/30 21:14:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 21:23:46
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Right now if you want minimal shooting and vehicles...
Orks, TWC space wolves and Daemons are up top.
All also have some shooting or vehicles that can greatly support them. SW can be helped with pods and dreadnoughts, and daemons can be assisted with soul grinders.
I think daemons is your best bet for a full power punch you in the face army. Some people above mention they are not fast, which is horribly wrong. Daemons have more 12" move units than any other codex.
Last I checked, every single elite and fast attack slot was a 12" move for daemons. Slaanesh units can go even faster. Throwing in FMCs in heavy and elite and deep strike, we have a very, very fast army.
Summoning is great to compliment a daemon army, but basing your army on it is a bad call. Pooping out a unit of 3 plague drones, or turning your pink horrors into a bloodthirster is always cool though!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 21:55:52
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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If you want a unit to get into melee, you have to pay something to get them there, most of the time. If you don't want to buy transports (for what ever reason) then your next best bet, is to buy bodies, msu's reduces your enemies affective fire and give him so many targets that he can't decide what the right thing to kill is. I have done this with deamons and now nids and it has worked to great success!
My success with nids have actually been a genestealer army taking tons of manufactorum stealers
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 21:57:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 22:39:02
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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No ones mentioned them but grey knights can be reasonably viable in melee.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 23:16:32
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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BrianDavion wrote:No ones mentioned them but grey knights can be reasonably viable in melee.
Probably because they're very much a shooty army too.
They are good in melee, but this is also backed up by Psycannons, Heavy Psycannons, Heavy Incinerators and such.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/30 23:51:53
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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He said he didn't want vehicles and Grey Knights get mowed down foot slogging slowly across the field.
Ive got a cousin who keeps trying to make CC grey knights work.........the results have been less than stellar.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 23:52:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 00:33:36
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
Spearfish, SD (ass end of nowhere)
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koooaei wrote:Haven't listed tyranids cause haven't seen mellee tyranids in a while. They mostly go flyrant spam and rain s6 dakka from the skies.
My son runs Nids. He's got a bunch of gaunts and genestealers he runs along with a few monsters like Carnifexi and Thropes. He almost always brings his Flyrant but I built a pair of Traktor Kannon and it's not a problem now. In fact I won a game against him with his flyrant where I didn't even bring the traktors. We mostly ignored it since it couldn't hold objectives and we played with 6 objectives with point values from 4 to 1. We held more objectives and won on points.
If you want to run a mass of footsloggers without vehicles it's hard to beat Nids. We always take a beating from his mass of troops. The only thing that holds him back is he never remembers what the real objective is and plays to wipe out the enemy.
Scott
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Everything will burn if you get it hot enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 01:56:55
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Grey Knights do indeed make excellent close combat warriors. You just understand that in order to be good in close combat, you dont have to forgo shooting. As they are also great shooters (and very fast too with the shunting units), you get in the face of the enemy and shoot, survive the desultery return fire (if your smart, you target and pick on units where the rest of the enemy army will have a hard time shooting at you or if they are using template weapons, are just as likely to hit their own guys as yours) and then assault/mop up the remains of what you shot at the first turn or if it is gone, just move towards and assult the next in line.
A good assault army makes excellent use of speed and ranged weapons as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 04:16:38
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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If you want a melee army, don't bother with hordes. They haven't worked since 6th dropped. If you want to do a more conventional list, your best bet is to create a "horde" out of things that weren't designed to be horde units in the first place, like CSM. At 1500 points, you can show up with 100 power armored bodies, for example.
Otherwise, yeah, something with a trick to get it into CC, like demons.
In any case, you're probably not going to have an easy time winning a game if you do JUST close combat. In my khorne armies, I still included some combi-weapon terminators and would usually include a unit of havocs or some oblits, or something. You can do shooting without close combat, but you can't really do close combat without shooting these days.
Or, of course, you could convince your friends to play 3rd-5th edition. The older the better, as every version of the rules has made close combat worse than the version before it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 04:31:48
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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I've been having a lot of fun with nurgle prince spam + belakor. I usually use 2 daemon book princes, GUO, black mace prince, and belakor along for the ride. 2+ Jink makes em a hell of a lot more survivable, and summoning backup to eat overwatch and what not. YMMV against stuff like eldar/tau, but against everything else I've been having good luck. Against them, you'll have to be a bit more careful and hug LoS blockers more often.
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BloodGod Gaming Gallery
"Pain is an illusion of the senses, fear an illusion of the mind, beyond these only death waits as silent judge o'er all."
— Primarch Mortarion |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 04:53:54
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Dakka Veteran
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Good luck with that ass meel is dead
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 05:04:42
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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i wouldnt say its a matter of making close combat worse but rather bringing shooting up to par with it. Many players think the game should be about close combat and others shooting. I fall into the shooting with strong close combat elements.
Melee or close combat is not dead. It is just that you need to be smart about it. Use strategy and tactics and understand that close combat is more than just swinging swords. It is getting there which means such things as support fire, target saturation and shooting as you close.
Good luck with the army, whichever one you choose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 05:54:25
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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BlackArmour wrote:
He said he didn't want vehicles and Grey Knights get mowed down foot slogging slowly across the field.
Ive got a cousin who keeps trying to make CC grey knights work.........the results have been less than stellar.
is your cousin using the Nemisis strike force detachment? for close combat GKs it's almost essential, unless you wanna run heavy on land raiders
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 08:37:09
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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My recommendation would be to go with daemons.
FMCs, fast cavalry and summoning will help you get to your opponent.
Things like invulnerable saves, invisibility, improving invulnerable saves and shrouded will help make sure you get the job done.
The biggest issue for daemons is trying to deal with heavy walkers like Imperial Knights.
Marine armies, besides bikes and TWC, are not very good at assault. Drop pods can get you close, but are really an awful idea, as you cannot charge when you come out, and you deliver half of your army to the opponent at a time, giving them a good chance to pick you off piecemeal. SMs biggest problem is speed. The only assault vehicles they have are around 250 points, which makes for a pretty small and inefficient force.
Nid's might be able to do it, however they have some shortcomings.
They are very reliant on cover saves to get their units to the target, usually by using a combination of natural terrain, screens of infantry, and venom/malanthropes.
This is ok vs some armies, but other armies will be a real hard counter to you. Tau markerlights, waveserpent shields, IG Wyverns will all help shred your army before it can reach anything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 09:32:09
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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EVIL INC wrote:i wouldnt say its a matter of making close combat worse but rather bringing shooting up to par with it. Many players think the game should be about close combat and others shooting. I fall into the shooting with strong close combat elements.
Melee or close combat is not dead. It is just that you need to be smart about it.
That's nowhere close to being true.
I've seen dozens of games where someone was crippled almost beyond any reasonable chance of winning before they made it to their turn 2 thanks to their opponents first two rounds of shooting. I've never seen anyone give up that fast because of assault. Almost every assault list I've seen that's even decently strong has to sink 1/3 to 1/2 their points into shooting to give their assault units the ability to even get to participate in the game, while I've seen many, many lists that scarcely include any assault elements at all and still do just fine.
Assault units have to hope their opponent doesn't shoot at them in order to do anything at all, while shooting just blows stuff off the board without recourse (except against other shooting units).
Shooting and assault are nowhere near "in balance". It's a shooty game with close combat as a funny relic that you'll scarcely see outside of a few specific builds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 11:27:35
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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If you're going to play pure Maelstrom full melee Tyranids could work.
Deathleaper Assassin's Brood
Manufactorum Genestealers
Hormagaunts
Deepstriking Rippers
Mawlocs
Malanthropes/Venomthropes
Dimachaeron in Pod
All of those are good choices in Maelstrom and pure melee, you will just have to sub the usual Dakka Flyrants for melee Flyrants I guess. You could also swap out Dakkafexes in pods for Wreckerfexes in pods.
Here's an example 1850 list, the Hive Tyrants aren't ideal but they are for what its worth "melee"
HQ:
Flyrant - Toxin Sacs, Reaper of Obliterax, Rending Claws, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant - Toxin Sacs, Maw Claws of Thyrax, Lashwhip and Bonesword, Electroshock Grubs
Elites:
Malanthrope
Troops:
Hormagaunts x10
Hormagaunts x10
FA:
Dimachaeron in Tyrannocyte w/ x5 Deathspitters
HS:
Mawloc
Formations;
Deathleaper's Assassin Brood:
The Deathleaper
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Manufactorum Genestealers:
Genestealers x5
Genestealers x5
Genestealers x5
Genestealers x5
Genestealers x5
The only shooting in this army is the Flyrant's Electroshock Grubs which is a flame template with Haywire, the Lictor's Fleshhooks which is 2 6" shots that come standard with Lictors and the Tyrannocyte's Deathspitters but they're not optional.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 12:05:17
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
Spearfish, SD (ass end of nowhere)
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Ailaros wrote:Shooting and assault are nowhere near "in balance". It's a shooty game with close combat as a funny relic that you'll scarcely see outside of a few specific builds.
We've got an Ork player in our group who swears up and down that Orks win or loose the battle based on the assault. He plays Boys Before Toys hoards and has over 100 boys he can field. He uses powerclaws like a strong seasoning. He says too many spoil things. He is devastating in melee and everyone in the group does what they can to avoid melee with him. Usually by turn 3 he has the game won by virtue of the enemy having no useful units left on the board. He makes use of the Elites and Heavy Support units to support his boyz but in the end he wins or looses based on the first charge. If he does it right within two turns you don't have a unit left that is able to resist him. It's amazing to watch him work. I've played against him and got my rear end handed to me and learned a lot about proper Ork tactics. Rule #1. Boyz are extra wounds for the Nob or Warboss. They suck up hits so the big boy can get in close and devastate the enemy. Rule #2 You should send enough boyz and toyz in to a fight so you win, but not so many that you have wasted wounds in the pool. If the enemy unit is wiped out and you still have a dozen wounds in the pool you sent too much and those wounds could have gone to another target. Math and Statistics are your friends.
Melee isn't dead. You just need to be smart about how you do it. The right support units make all the difference.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 12:05:53
Everything will burn if you get it hot enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 12:10:37
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Me Like Burnaz wrote:We've got an Ork player in our group who swears up and down that Orks win or loose the battle based on the assault. He plays Boys Before Toys hoards and has over 100 boys he can field. He uses powerclaws like a strong seasoning. He says too many spoil things. He is devastating in melee and everyone in the group does what they can to avoid melee with him. Usually by turn 3 he has the game won by virtue of the enemy having no useful units left on the board. He makes use of the Elites and Heavy Support units to support his boyz but in the end he wins or looses based on the first charge. If he does it right within two turns you don't have a unit left that is able to resist him. It's amazing to watch him work. I've played against him and got my rear end handed to me and learned a lot about proper Ork tactics. Rule #1. Boyz are extra wounds for the Nob or Warboss. They suck up hits so the big boy can get in close and devastate the enemy. Rule #2 You should send enough boyz and toyz in to a fight so you win, but not so many that you have wasted wounds in the pool. If the enemy unit is wiped out and you still have a dozen wounds in the pool you sent too much and those wounds could have gone to another target. Math and Statistics are your friends.
Melee isn't dead. You just need to be smart about how you do it. The right support units make all the difference.
Could you give us more information on his list?
Also, I don't suppose there are any battle reports with his list we could look at?
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 12:39:42
Subject: Re:trying to create a melee army
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Wing Commander
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I've actually found one of the most cost effective melee units in the game is from C:SM of all things: Honour Guard.
25ppm for 2+ armour, 2 attacks base, power sword, bolt pistol, boltgun. The entire unit can buy a banner for 25 points to give them all an extra attack, and the Champion has WS5 and an extra base attack, and can get a Thunder Hammer for 15 points .
It's 300 all told for 10 2+ bodies with 5 attacks each on the charge with power weapons. Add a librarian to cast some buffs, or if you're Minotaurs like me add a Rage-granting chaplain who himself gets 7 power fist attacks on the charge, with the whole lot re-rolling to hit, and get +1 inch to charge in the enemy zone. That unit is the only one I've ever fielded which has made an Ork player go, "Marines aren't supposed to just evaporate a 30-strong boy mob before they get to attack."
If you're looking to go more melee heavy, Marines can work; Marneus Calgar, Papa Smurf himself, allows you to take 3 honour guard squads. Throw in Tigurius, one of the better psykers in the game at present and you can buff the most threatend unit at will, and still be supported by some decent firepower Marine units like Thunderfire cannons, or throw in some Ironclad or Contemptor Dreadnoughts for some more melee punch with all-important AV13.
Oh, and Honour Guard can all take Drop Pods; they don't have much of an alpha strike only using boltguns, but 3 honour Guard podding into a backfield with Papa Smurf and Tigurius with some fire support across the table, perhaps with some Tacticals or Sternguard, depending on points, in the other two pods you'd need would be seriously bad news for most opponents.
It's one I've considered doing; not quite optimal, as there are no doubt better lists, but it's certainly uconventional enough to catch some people unprepared, and few armies have the AP2 to deal with 30 2+ bodies in their backfield on turn 1.
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Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/31 13:35:23
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Ailaros wrote:EVIL INC wrote:i wouldnt say its a matter of making close combat worse but rather bringing shooting up to par with it. Many players think the game should be about close combat and others shooting. I fall into the shooting with strong close combat elements.
Melee or close combat is not dead. It is just that you need to be smart about it.
That's nowhere close to being true.
I've seen dozens of games where someone was crippled almost beyond any reasonable chance of winning before they made it to their turn 2 thanks to their opponents first two rounds of shooting. I've never seen anyone give up that fast because of assault. Almost every assault list I've seen that's even decently strong has to sink 1/3 to 1/2 their points into shooting to give their assault units the ability to even get to participate in the game, while I've seen many, many lists that scarcely include any assault elements at all and still do just fine.
Assault units have to hope their opponent doesn't shoot at them in order to do anything at all, while shooting just blows stuff off the board without recourse (except against other shooting units).
Shooting and assault are nowhere near "in balance". It's a shooty game with close combat as a funny relic that you'll scarcely see outside of a few specific builds.
Actually it is true in my experience. But you are free to have your opinion based on your limited anecdotal experience. I have seen otherwise.
BUT, rather than take your or my anecdotal experiences at face value, the OP is more than capable of experimenting and seeing what works for them.
We would be better off addressing the actual topic an OP rather than one another with side conversations. Feel free to use the PM function if you wish to address me or my posts so as to not spam the thread wish sidebar. Have a nice day.
Remember a "melee or assault unit does not have to be 100% close combat. Rememberit is ok for an assaulter to fire a weapon as they close in.
You can also try different strategies and tactics to help you close. You should BOTH set up terrain so you should be able to place some to help block los on the board. You dont have to play on planet bowling ball. Also, if your terrain collection is just a series of ponds and tiny ruins, you can always make larger los blocking pieces. I've seen some amazing sets done up to make it appear as though your fighting in desert canyons and ice canyons.
City battles can be fun too.
One of my favorite strategies is the denied flank (or whatever it is called. If your opponent wins the roll for first turn and takes it, try to ovrload your entire force on the side of the field that has the enemies longest ranged artilley/weapons. This negates the advantage of the longer range of those weapons and the short ranged weapons on the opposite side of the field wont be able to reach you and they will waste at least a turn or two just getting you in range. By that time your entire army will have eaten away half his army and he will be feeding you the rest piecemeal. This is an actual military strategy that i have seen work on the gaming field many times and have used myself to tear through shooty armies.
Rather than just listen to people say "it's great" or "it sucks" or take snipe shots at one another purely to attempt to instigate an argument as we have already seen lol, I would suggest checking out actual tactics and strategies forums and sub-forums. Dont spend your entire time here, try other forum sites as well.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/31 13:48:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/01 01:03:31
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Im gonna throw my hat in with BA. Fast even without pods or other vehicles, and hit harder than any other army in the game, possibly with the exception of daemons.
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5,000
:cficon: 1,500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/01 01:32:29
Subject: trying to create a melee army
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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Theirs ALWAYS THE GOOD FAITHFUL DARKK ELDAR WHO NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG TO ANY BODY EVER.
I'm not sure why I said it like that but I liked it.
Dark Eldar have
-Okay, good, and Excellent CC choices in units like, Wyches, Wracks, HQ's, MC's, INCUBI, thats right, INCUBI. AP2 I5 weapons, holy cow! BIKES!?
-Various ways to get to the bulk of most armies via, Fast OPEN TOPPED(you can assault out of these!) skimmers that may jink on a 3+, no mishap deepstrike shenanigans(ho boy covens Talos/cronos/haemy formation for the distraction carnifex, or anything else that might survive a round of shooting.)
-They're shooty, so you can shoot as you move forwards!
-various wargear options to demoralize your enemies, that may or may not help.
okay so they're fragile. Bahumbug, so are Orks save for a few units. And Eldar, and every army that's not marines.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In fairness DE are a shooty army, but are more than capable of doing a good CC army as long as you're not jumping into the competitive scene
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/01 01:35:56
10k+ Tau, Ke'lshan
10k Dark Eldar Kabal of the Flayed skull
1k Scions
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