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Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I want to try using 30- 40 flash gitz in one army with kopta, tank Busta and buggy support
Im currently thinking;
Warkopta squadron - 3 warkoptas
1 loaded with 10 gitz
1 loaded with tankbusta's or lootas
1 loaded with boyz or emtpy
As per squadron rules, you can put the boyz/empty one out front so that it takes most of the early game fire, while the lootas and gitz poodle about in their skimmers laying down the pain!
I also plan on trying it with the badrukk formation. Get me a squadron of gitz in helicopters. The warkopta just seems so right! its a skimmer, so it can jink, moves over terrain and as its in a squadron your more valuable unit can effectively be last to go down. They are 15 pts more than a trukk, but I think jink and sqaudron rules really help make it worthwhile.
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to transport Badrukk + Gitz in a helicopter as it's capacity is exactly 10. And you have to take 2 full units of Gitz + Badrukk. And iirc Badrukk has to join one of them or both if you unite in in a huge 21-strong git squad.
But you still can put one unit in a kopta and another in a trukk or something. Well, at least the enemy would love to shoot down those 10-10-10 vehicles carrying 300 pt cargo inside.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 07:38:07
when you take a squadron of transports in one unit, like the FW chinork or w/e it is, can you spread one unit of 21 Orkz into the transport capacity of the other vehicles?
Can one squad of three Chinooks (ten capacity) take one unit of 21 models ten models in two Chinook and one model in one chinook?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 07:42:42
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
koooaei wrote: I'm pretty certain that not. Otherwise, you'd be able to transport a greentide in a bunch of trukks
You can 3 squads of up to 10 guyz, though.
Yeh the formation sucks balls for that reason.... a 21 model blob.... yay all my transports are.....10man,12man,20man! DOH!
badrukk as far as im aware doesn't have to join a unit, so I could put 10 gitz in each, then leave badrukk somewhere with some lootas.
As far shooting down 300 pt transports, its the same as trukk, lets not pretend AV 11,10,10 is much better. I'd prefer a jink save I think. Well, if not I can always run them as trukks! (magnetising the helicopta blades!). Admittedly they are also HP 2, but I reckon they will work out pretty well. Its quite a lot of fire to take down 1-2 warkoptas of boyz just to get to some flash gitz. And quite clearly im gona have a few MANz missiles plowing straight up field too. I just think what most of our gun platforms lack (barring the AV14 on the BW) is decent armour. Most are pretty high on the front but most severly lack any side armour and leave themselves open to almost anything. Now the BW for me is just too pricey for it to be worth it with say a 5 man git squad, maybe with a larger blob, but even then they are still a prime target.
I'm hoping the squadron can provide a bit of added protection so that either; the enemy puts in a whole load of shooting in order to get through what is basically 2 trukk boy squads and then a trukk of gitz, which should leave the rest of my army breathing down his throat. Or that he designates another target and within turn 2 im throwing out a couple small 10 man assault units (most likely shoota boyz) while the squadron now just moves about laying down the snazzgun fire.
My overall throughts are just; Imagine trukks that can jink and have TLStr 7. In a squadron of 3 you provide a nice bit of punch to side armour and protection for a more valuable unit. Yeh you can't simply load 3 units of gitz on to them and expect that squadron to survive, but by hiding the units among the boyz that you have to bring you can offer protection to your Hidden Gitz.
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Hmmm, haven't considered not joining badruk in there yet. I think he could do great with some other squad actually! Be it shoota boyz or...tankbustas! Tankhunter for Badrukk, anyone?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 08:49:12
Does the Looted wagon really have an official model? I know it's also heavy support but I wonder if you could choose a Looted Rhino for a model and use them as BLOS for gitz like a marine would. would.
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
koooaei wrote:Hmmm, haven't considered not joining badruk in there yet. I think he could do great with some other squad actually! Be it shoota boyz or...tankbustas! Tankhunter for Badrukk, anyone?
Tankhunter confers? If so yeh he could be nasty! I always heard ewith lootas he was pretty effective. But tankbustas could be great fun. He's AP3 right? Could be a damn effective MEQ killing squad, with the ability to hunt side and rear armour! I am now thinking... apocolypse now - With badrukk as bill Kilgore, The scene where they are flying in to the sound of ride of the valkyries. 3 warkoptas 1 Unit of gitz 1 Unit of tankbustas 1 unit of boyz
Then all I need is a CD player and im good to go
Rismonite wrote:Does the Looted wagon really have an official model? I know it's also heavy support but I wonder if you could choose a Looted Rhino for a model and use them as BLOS for gitz like a marine would. would.
No official Model, and what do you mean as BLOS like a marine would? As in disembarking behind it or something? But yeh you can use a rhino, or whatever model you fancy! In general I try to make my BW conversions able to be looted wagons/and or Big trakks. They are all very similar in model size, the BW is just a tad longer than both. So all I do is make a magntising bit of armour or cabin that bolts on the front or back to go from like chimera size to BW size. Then the only difference is weapon load out. But thats plenty magnetisable!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 10:09:45
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Badrukk's Formation is bad for all kinds of reasons, not just the size.
Master Crafted sounds good at first, until you realise you now have to roll to hit with each model individually. Rolling 21 sets of 3 dice so you can re-roll one potential miss is a nightmare.
Got to be the worst thought out formation ever. Having a Freebooter army I was looking forward to a Badrukk formation, but this is unplayable.
I would have 30 multi colored dice in matchimg sets of three set aside for that unit. I feel like it'd be reasonable to just roll them all then quickly look for a miss per color set.
Edited
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 11:57:44
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
grendel083 wrote:Badrukk's Formation is bad for all kinds of reasons, not just the size.
Master Crafted sounds good at first, until you realise you now have to roll to hit with each model individually. Rolling 21 sets of 3 dice so you can re-roll one potential miss is a nightmare.
Got to be the worst thought out formation ever. Having a Freebooter army I was looking forward to a Badrukk formation, but this is unplayable.
Rismonite wrote:I would have 30 multi colored dice in matchimg sets of three set aside for that unit. I feel like it'd be reasonable to just roll them all then quickly look for ones.
Yeh I agree with the pain in the ass side of it! definitely. The only use I can see the formation would be;
20 Gitz, Badrukk, painboy and KFF mek. All as a blob using an escape hatch in a bunker to get a slingshot forwards into midfield. Where hopefully they will then be a nice ball of death with FNP and KFF. But even thats a stretch as to whether its worth it.
I'd be tempted to just state, here's 60 dice. Im pretty guaranteed to get atleast 1 miss with each git, so I will re-roll 20 of these. Yeh it might not be exact, but doing it individually is just silly, this method would probably be correct 90% of the time if not more.
Quick question, master-crafted only applies if you join them all together? Or does the formation get it even if they aren't all 1 unit?
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Flash Gitz just are no work the points for what they do and the elite slot, I'd rather take regular nobz and be able have way more options in customizing them, Flash Gitz use to worth it but barley, at lest the old ones had some sort of upgrade options. But like alot of good orky things they are gone with the wind.
Like 3 red dice is git 1. 3 black is git 2. Three orange with red pips is git 3. Like this, then just pickup all 9 dice and roll.. you'll know which dice belonged to which got, negating the reason to roll one flash git at a time. Keep this dice set comvienently to the side.
The math for what master crafted does for them seems nicE.
At BS2 30 shots becomes 10 hits and, though it's subject to some variance, you would almost be rerouting nine or ten dice with another three or four hits.
Bs3 it becomes more likely one maybe two gits would actually hit with all three shots.. still another three or four hits
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
Solar Shock wrote: Quick question, master-crafted only applies if you join them all together? Or does the formation get it even if they aren't all 1 unit?
They get it even if not combined.
If the rule was "re-roll 1's to hit" I'd be all over this Formation, but someone just wasn't thinking when they added Master Crafted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rismonite wrote: Like 3 red dice is git 1. 3 black is git 2. Three orange with red pips is git 3. Like this, then just pickup all 9 dice and roll.. you'll know which dice belonged to which got, negating the reason to roll one flash git at a time. Keep this dice set comvienently to the side.
I get what you're saying, but you're looking at a pile of 60 dice on your tabletop.
You then need to sort them all into groups to find that one dice in each set to re-roll.
It's time consuming, not to mention the pain of gathering 20 sets of different dice. The multi-colour blur will likely put you or your opponent into a coma! My most regular opponent is colour-blind, this would confuse him no end!
Orks players normally have enough to do in their turn already.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 12:14:12
Mojo1jojo wrote: Flash Gitz just are no work the points for what they do and the elite slot, I'd rather take regular nobz and be able have way more options in customizing them, Flash Gitz use to worth it but barley, at lest the old ones had some sort of upgrade options. But like alot of good orky things they are gone with the wind.
My opinion, In the right list Orkz can really cause some tough designs with your opponents strength 8 shooting. Enough nobz, Flash Gitz , and two squads of ork boyz with FnP could make your opponent think hard about shooting heavy AV or doubling out a Nob or flash git. Might be nice with a naught carrying a kff. I'm not soo sure how good it'd be overall but it would be fun to see what your opponent does with his Str 8.
Edit @grendal think of it as flash gitz being rich enough to each have their own unique color set of dice.. maybe that's what some masochist codex writer was thinking when he added it (PS no I don't like it either but it's a funny though)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 12:20:26
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
This is why I want to try some warkopta squadrons. 2 squadrons of 3 warkoptas is 6 AV 10,10,10 vehicles. Similar to our trukks but with a loadout of Gitz, lootas and 1 of boyz I intend to flank with them, attempt to drop off the lootas on a flank so that they can dish out some side armour shots with their str 7, while the gitz and boyz get a little closer.
Once I've disembarked both the boyz and lootas I will try and leave the gitz in the koptas, as hopefully if I've lost no warkoptas their are 2 warkopta shields between my gitz and the enemy, if i've lost 1 or both of the others then I can drop them in some ruins hopefully. But I mean 3 warkoptas have 3 TL deffguns. so thats between 3-9 TLStr 7 shots, used to crack transports the gitz can then lay down 30 Str 5 shots into what was inside.
Thats me plan!
Got a warkopta on the bench at the moment! think chimera with flying squigs on chains holding it afloat, like james and the giant peach with the seagulls
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Mojo1jojo wrote: Flash Gitz just are not worth the points for what they do and the elite slot, I'd rather take regular nobz and be able have way more options in customizing them, Flash Gitz use to worth it but barley, at lest the old ones had some sort of upgrade options. But like alot of good orky things they are gone with the wind.
My opinion, In the right list Orkz can really cause some tough designs with your opponents strength 8 shooting. Enough nobz, Flash Gitz , and two squads of ork boyz with FnP could make your opponent think hard about shooting heavy AV or doubling out a Nob or flash git. Might be nice with a naught carrying a kff. I'm not soo sure how good it'd be overall but it would be fun to see what your opponent does with his Str 8.
Edit @grendal think of it as flash gitz being rich enough to each have their own unique color set of dice.. maybe that's what some masochist codex writer was thinking when he added it (PS no I don't like it either but it's a funny though)
The amount of points you pay for what can do is still not worth it point for point. Two drop pods with one melta each, on average, can wipe out a full squad of Flash Gitz in a battlewagon, even with the 5++. The points you would lose would be almost 500pnts in Elites, lost to barley 200pnts in troop choice option.
I think the Kustom Battle Fortress from FW has a transport capacity of 30 models, but then again it costs somwhat over 300 points and I would rather use it for a full squad of boyz. The formation isn't worth it, IMHO. 10 Flash Gitz are enough to wipe a unit of space marines out.
And they ARE worth there points. In my last game they took out a Demon Prince in one charge, overwhelming him with attacks. My opponent lost something like 300 points because of that. And if I look at the entire game they (340 point - 10 Gitz and a BW with Ram and one Big shoota) killed something like 600 points. The rest of my opponents army was eaten alive by Ghazy and 5 Meganobz (we played 1500 points).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 12:43:02
hordrak wrote: I think the Kustom Battle Fortress from FW has a transport capacity of 30 models, but then again it costs somwhat over 300 points and I would rather use it for a full squad of boyz. The formation isn't worth it, IMHO. 10 Flash Gitz are enough to wipe a unit of space marines out.
And they ARE worth there points. In my last game they took out a Demon Prince in one charge, overwhelming him with attacks. My opponent lost something like 300 points because of that. And if I look at the entire game they (340 point - 10 Gitz and a BW with Ram and one Big shoota) killed something like 600 points. The rest of my opponents army was eaten alive by Ghazy and 5 Meganobz (we played 1500 points).
exactly, even if you could take the formation, WTF is going to need 60 str 5 shots? (ignoring wraiths, the sky is falling, wraiths. The ground is ascending wraiths with RP. wraiths.) I mean even if you dont roll low AP, 60 shots is gona hurt. 20 hits at AP2? blehhh, such overkill.
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
hordrak wrote: I think the Kustom Battle Fortress from FW has a transport capacity of 30 models, but then again it costs somwhat over 300 points and I would rather use it for a full squad of boyz. The formation isn't worth it, IMHO. 10 Flash Gitz are enough to wipe a unit of space marines out.
And they ARE worth there points. In my last game they took out a Demon Prince in one charge, overwhelming him with attacks. My opponent lost something like 300 points because of that. And if I look at the entire game they (340 point - 10 Gitz and a BW with Ram and one Big shoota) killed something like 600 points. The rest of my opponents army was eaten alive by Ghazy and 5 Meganobz (we played 1500 points).
Thats called luck, I once killed a Centourian in gretchen overwatch but that does not mean that they sunddenly become Centourian slayers. If you are rolling hot, yeah flash gitz will give you the world, averages say otherwise. Your average AP is gonna be 3 or 4, 3 if your even a little lucky, 20shot, of course if you havent suffered any deaths yet, average up 7 hits, wound on 3+ against average T4 giving you around 4 wounds. If you were not lucky enough to get that ap3 you only cause 1-2 wounds to stick. So yeah I can see you killing one squad of 5 marines, far less if in the have cover or somebody to absorb the shots. Against a daemon prince you have to first pass a fear test on a leadership of 7, unless your fearless that turn, 40 S5 attakes hitting on 4+ you get 20 hits, wound on5+ you get 7 wounds averaging up, then they get 3+ and wind it down to around 2 wounds, this off course if you attack first, which I cannot remember doing for any daemon prince and they would have to roll like a 1 for their daemon weapon. When their good their awesome, I took out a squad of terminators on more then one occasion, but when their bad their just too bad, and on average their gonna be on the bad side and die faster then you can say "more Dakka"
Mojo1jojo wrote:
Thats called luck, I once killed a Centourian in gretchen overwatch but that does not mean that they sunddenly become Centourian slayers. If you are rolling hot, yeah flash gitz will give you the world, averages say otherwise. Your average AP is gonna be 3 or 4, 3 if your even a little lucky, 20shot, of course if you havent suffered any deaths yet, average up 7 hits, wound on 3+ against average T4 giving you around 4 wounds. If you were not lucky enough to get that ap3 you only cause 1-2 wounds to stick. So yeah I can see you killing one squad of 5 marines, far less if in the have cover or somebody to absorb the shots. Against a daemon prince you have to first pass a fear test on a leadership of 7, unless your fearless that turn, 40 S5 attakes hitting on 4+ you get 20 hits, wound on5+ you get 7 wounds averaging up, then they get 3+ and wind it down to around 2 wounds, this off course if you attack first, which I cannot remember doing for any daemon prince and they would have to roll like a 1 for their daemon weapon. When their good their awesome, I took out a squad of terminators on more then one occasion, but when their bad their just too bad, and on average their gonna be on the bad side and die faster then you can say "more Dakka"
Thi is why I play orks, for the moments where your squad go fethin' ballistic! and lay down the pain. Mathed out it doesn't look great, but thats what I like about dice and orks. What mathematically more than likely works out to be not so good ends up being a good ol' poundin'! Like when your rolling hot on lootas allllll game!
koooaei wrote:
Just try not to go too heavy on bringing democracy
Gona go OTT on the Orkocracy! - Biggest is da Best!
Well i've now finished up 5 flash gitz, so I plan on rolling out with them next game. Either in a gunwagon/big trakk or a warkopta. Im actually leaning towards a gunwagon. AV 13, 12, 10, comes in at 60 pts, if I take 3 for 180, Stick lobbas on them all and a RR, thats only about 225 pts wise. Then I can stick tankbusta's in one, flash gitz in the other and load the front one with shoota boys. This gives them a common range, with an non-valuable shoota boyz squad sat in the first of the sqaudron, acting as both a unit for blasting anything that comes into range and as an assault unit for anything starting to get a little close. I think drop pods could be an issue, as if its a squadron and I get some Melta drop pods i've got the potential to lose more than 1 vehicle.
Out of interest how does that work? landing in melta range to one vehicle in squadron of vehicles, You get 2 pens, one which results in an explode, yet the second which was a pen is now being conferred to a vehicle which is technically outside melta range? so the 2D6 armour pen should no longer apply? I assume it does still apply due to the rules?
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
For me they are better than lootas. More shots on average, mobile, better BS, better AP and better in cc.
I actually find them great MC hunters due to shot volume and chance to ignore armor.
Alas, GW decided to trade a nice 4+ for stupid Bosspoles on every model. I don't think the are better than lootas, I think they work great together - the lootas wreck tanks and the flash gitz finish the heavy armoured guys. I usualy take both of them.
I agree, they work well (in theory) in tandem with lootas.
I was also confused by forcing every model to have a bosspole. Honestly, they're reasonably costed models for what you get, but I've always been confused by having bosspoles on everything. I kinda get the feeling the models were made all with bosspoles before the codex was finalized. So, even though a unit of all bosspoles is kinda useless, they just included it for free.
Even so, I'd happily give up bosspoles for 4+ armor.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
hordrak wrote: I think the Kustom Battle Fortress from FW has a transport capacity of 30 models, but then again it costs somwhat over 300 points and I would rather use it for a full squad of boyz. The formation isn't worth it, IMHO. 10 Flash Gitz are enough to wipe a unit of space marines out.
And they ARE worth there points. In my last game they took out a Demon Prince in one charge, overwhelming him with attacks. My opponent lost something like 300 points because of that. And if I look at the entire game they (340 point - 10 Gitz and a BW with Ram and one Big shoota) killed something like 600 points. The rest of my opponents army was eaten alive by Ghazy and 5 Meganobz (we played 1500 points).
Thats called luck, I once killed a Centourian in gretchen overwatch but that does not mean that they sunddenly become Centourian slayers. If you are rolling hot, yeah flash gitz will give you the world, averages say otherwise. Your average AP is gonna be 3 or 4, 3 if your even a little lucky, 20shot, of course if you havent suffered any deaths yet, average up 7 hits, wound on 3+ against average T4 giving you around 4 wounds. If you were not lucky enough to get that ap3 you only cause 1-2 wounds to stick. So yeah I can see you killing one squad of 5 marines, far less if in the have cover or somebody to absorb the shots. Against a daemon prince you have to first pass a fear test on a leadership of 7, unless your fearless that turn, 40 S5 attakes hitting on 4+ you get 20 hits, wound on5+ you get 7 wounds averaging up, then they get 3+ and wind it down to around 2 wounds, this off course if you attack first, which I cannot remember doing for any daemon prince and they would have to roll like a 1 for their daemon weapon. When their good their awesome, I took out a squad of terminators on more then one occasion, but when their bad their just too bad, and on average their gonna be on the bad side and die faster then you can say "more Dakka"
A Deamon Prince is T5, so they wound on 4+ on the charge. Befor charging they can also shoot what they charge, so the chances are much better than you have mathhammered. Bad rolls happen, but the same can happen with every unit. I see the strength of Flash Gitz in being a jack-of-all-trades (as far as Orks can be) - they can shoot a lot, they can punch a lot. They are not an auto-take, but are far from being on the bad side.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:I have 10 sets of 3 dice different colors. Makes it easy for the master crafted, I just roll 30 twice.
if the formation could.be split up it be better. I may also just run 4 units of 10 seperatley.
Well, 10 differently colored dice can be enough. Just roll 3 times. But still a pain in the rear.
I'm guessing that if you asked to roll an extra 8 or 9 dice, then 90% of opponents would allow it. If the only reason you dislike a formation is because its a hassle, then find a way to avoid the hassle. Rerolling ones is a less potent rule, but you would still prefer it to avoid rolling in batches of 3. Pre-game, just ask your opponent and I'm sure most people would be cool with it. 8 extra shots is below average, so I'm sure people will be ok with it. And if they aren't, make it take a long time just to show them how inconvenient they've been.
For the guy who leaves it all on the field (because he doesn't pick up after the game).
Keep on rolling
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