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Although most people don't think Flash Gitz are usefull, my esperience has proven the opposite. Every time I se them they perform great, and the are a realy versitile unit. When playing against space marines they usualy wipe entire squads out in a cingle shooting turn, they can also deal a lot of damage in cc - a few days ago I charged a Demon Prince with them and the smashed him with no chance of victory for my opponent. There are some problems, however, but they are not hard to solve - there 6+ can be negated by puttnig them into a BW (also solves the mobility problem) and/or adding a Painboy. And even if you roll bad for AP the sher amount of S5 shots will be devastating. A shame they are not in the Elites...

By no means they're bad. Just optional and unreliable and i don't think they'd do much without a BW.
They could benefit from blitz brigade in a way of not lowering their BS due to scout-moving into position.

 koooaei wrote:
By no means they're bad. Just optional and unreliable and i don't think they'd do much without a BW.
They could benefit from blitz brigade in a way of not lowering their BS due to scout-moving into position.

Stick them with a MA big mek in a BW, give the mek the killdakka. Thats something I plan on trying they get SNP so count as stationary, when the wagon goes boom you eat the hits with the MA mek and more than likely don't take a wound. Then you just roll around blasting stuff. The killdakka is just cos.... cos. I just think its a hilarious weapon. Some games he'll be a loota, others he'll be a bubblechukka!

Koooaei, im disappointed.... have you not realised by this point the answer to every ork problem is a big mek in MA!

Solar Shock wrote:
they get SNP so count as stationary

Does SAP allow you to count as stationary when firing an Assault weapon

Slow and Purposeful grants you Relentless, so yes.

However, it also stops you firing overwatch - which I'm not a fan of with a Flash Gitz unit. Snazzguns on overwatch are Brutal.

Agreed with most of what's been said - their problem is not ability, it's reliability. Ignore the variable AP value - assume every member of the squad has a heavy bolter, and treat each roll of AP3 or AP2 as a devastating but unexpected bonus.

Either battlewagons or some good cover are important.

If I wanted to recommend an orky formation-based army, I'd say take:
Blitz Brigade
Ghazgkhull's Bully Boyz
Kaptin Badrukk's Flash Gitz

Kit three battlewagons with boarding planks, skorchas and close quarters gear to carry the mega armour, and two as dakka platforms with rokkits or big shootas to host the flash gitz.

Solar Shock wrote:

Koooaei, im disappointed.... have you not realised by this point the answer to every ork problem is a big mek in MA!

Oh, how i'd love to have megagrots! I'd take a megagrot squad any day! I do think grots need more love in 40k. They're hilarious.

Note, however, that SNP doesn't allow you to benefit from gitfindas due to the gear's wording. It doesn't work if you moved - snp or not. But it does benefit some shots from killdakka.

 koooaei wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

Koooaei, im disappointed.... have you not realised by this point the answer to every ork problem is a big mek in MA!

Oh, how i'd love to have megagrots! I'd take a megagrot squad any day! I do think grots need more love in 40k. They're hilarious.

Note, however, that SNP doesn't allow you to benefit from gitfindas due to the gear's wording. It doesn't work if you moved - snp or not. But it does benefit some shots from killdakka.

but doesn't relentless allow you to treat shooting as if you didn't move? I will have to double check, but otherwise balls! I agree overwatch is also too nice. So perhaps a painboy is appropriate? I had always thought they also had pretty good combat potential if you stuck a cheap WarBoss in there, no MA, PK and a challenge mek. But I dunno. my flashgitz are still in the conversion phase :(

But I third - think AP '-', then treat it as gork or mork laughing when you roll those 1's and 2's!

Did someone say Megagrots?! Speak and your wish shall be granted

Sorry, but a Megamek doesn't grant them BS3 after moving. SnP does not interact with Assault weapons - only Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance. Not fireing Overwatch isn't helping them to. The Mek can soak up wounds, give them a 5++, but also limits there shootiness. I think a Painboy does a better job for them.

Solar Shock wrote:

Did someone say Megagrots?! Speak and your wish shall be granted

WAGHAHA that's awesome!

locarno24 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful grants you Relentless, so yes.

No, it doesn't grant Relentless.
It's a similar rule, but no it doesn't grant it at all.

And even if it did, Relentless doesn't help with Assault weapons either.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with flash gitz.

I have been playing flash gitz alot lately and I learned a few things.

First things first, with good rolls they destroy pretty much everything, the volume of shots paired with a good AP rolls will make any MEQ or other army cry. They are also very good on overwatch and get roughly 2-3 kills in my experiance.

The bad news is that you need a battlewagon, they are just not very tough and die quickly to any sort of firepower. They also need a painboy just to be able to have any save at all. I have been toying with the idea of throwing a Wierdboy in the squad for extra fire-power and the chance of deep-striking fun, but they still have the low durability and a giant foot-print.

Why GW thought they shouldn't have heavy armour(or even the option to have it) it beyond me...if they had heavy armour they would be an auto include for me all the time.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with flash gitz.

except for the fact they compete with the superior lootas.

And lootas compete with Mek Guns and Battlewagons and Morkanauts and more Battlewagons . . .

 Orock wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with flash gitz.

except for the fact they compete with the superior lootas.

Get a second Detachment. Problem solved
Or take Warboss Bluetooth from IA:8 and take a unit of Lootas as troops.

Oh, so they compete with Lootas? Well, okay...

You know if you think about what an ork boy with a Big Shoota should cost, then upgrade that ork boy to a Nob, you get something that seems to be more expensive than a flash git.

Flash Gitz are guilty of the same bad rep nobz get, and have comparable battlefield roles. If the gun was Str 5 AP 6 Assault 3 we wouldn't be calling them unreliable and that would be a lot of Dakka to understimate especially considering Flash Gitz can still punch things hard after firing.

By design, other heavy support, will not be in a position to assist an assault or forward objective in a late game.

Every ork unit is made better with a painboy, except vehicles.

Flash Gitz can still acquire cover saves.

Comparable mek gunz are more expensive per model, lose more when moving, are just as random, dispatched easily in CC, are Ld 5 before mandatory mek, and are usually for shooting tanks. They trade all that for a sweet toughness increase vs. Shooting on three point models, and I don't blame others for using mek gunz and Lootas for stationary fire support its nice. However, Flash Gitz are not long ranged stationary fire support, and this is edition "ally yourself and take three more heavy supports".

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Oh, so they compete with Lootas? Well, okay...

Not really, they compete in the sense they use the same slot (Heavy), but their role is different.
Lootas are for light/medium vehicles, Mc's
Gitz are for Infantry / heavy Infantry

What I don't understand is why certain units, flash gitz most of all, don't have an option for eavy armor. I mean the only reason I can think is so gw can sell more transports. Which is soooo gw.

So what do you guys advocate to sticking with the flash gitz?
Simply a BW for protection?
A painboy?
A mek with KFF?

I have some under conversion atm and im just trying to think what would be the best way to deploy/field them. Currently I also have a bunker with an escape hatch. So im considering having them start inside, then slingshot forward with the hatch and go sit on a midfield objective. I feel like a painboy is a good choice, but again still quite a poor save. What about a looted wagon? its 1 armour higher and could be equipped with plenty of big shootas to compliment?

 hordrak wrote:
Although most people don't think Flash Gitz are usefull, my esperience has proven the opposite. Every time I se them they perform great, and the are a realy versitile unit. When playing against space marines they usualy wipe entire squads out in a cingle shooting turn, they can also deal a lot of damage in cc - a few days ago I charged a Demon Prince with them and the smashed him with no chance of victory for my opponent. There are some problems, however, but they are not hard to solve - there 6+ can be negated by puttnig them into a BW (also solves the mobility problem) and/or adding a Painboy. And even if you roll bad for AP the sher amount of S5 shots will be devastating. A shame they are not in the Elites...

My experience hs been extremely positive in facing this unit. It is indeed almost as mean as you say, absolutely as versatile as you say and the AV 14 hull they can launch their flight of arrows from, so to speak is also a must.

MUCH respect to the Flash Gitz.

Solar Shock wrote:
So what do you guys advocate to sticking with the flash gitz?
Simply a BW for protection?
A painboy?
A mek with KFF?

I have some under conversion atm and im just trying to think what would be the best way to deploy/field them. Currently I also have a bunker with an escape hatch. So im considering having them start inside, then slingshot forward with the hatch and go sit on a midfield objective. I feel like a painboy is a good choice, but again still quite a poor save. What about a looted wagon? its 1 armour higher and could be equipped with plenty of big shootas to compliment?

I say - BW and Painboy. A Big Mek with KFF can also be usefull, but it doesn't work in CC and if you put him in Mega Armour you loose Overwatch. But actualy it's a matter of what you like more. I wouldn't recomend a looted wagon - it' cheap, yes, but if you roll 1 you don't get normal shooting and open-topped means it's easy to blow up. and it's not a dedicated transport.

 hordrak wrote:


I say - BW and Painboy. A Big Mek with KFF can also be usefull, but it doesn't work in CC and if you put him in Mega Armour you loose Overwatch. But actualy it's a matter of what you like more. I wouldn't recomend a looted wagon - it' cheap, yes, but if you roll 1 you don't get normal shooting and open-topped means it's easy to blow up. and it's not a dedicated transport.

That is true, it is a lot easier to blow up, the armour on the BW does help quite a lot. My main issue with the BW is that it is darn expensive considering its basically just a bit of armour for the flash gitz. This leaves me thinking a few options;

1- I take more gitz, so say bump the squad up to 10, that way the points used by the BW go that much farther. The problem then becomes is this target just too juicy to ignore? with a 6+ save, even with FNP, Im still only looking at 16/36 chance to make that save. With some orderly's this becomes a little better. But if the BW is popped and with open-topped there is a chance I will inflict a few wounds onto myself, plus mob rule, which with such a low armour save is again likely to cause a wound.

2- Drop overwatch for some MA. I get that with a unit of 5 your looking at 2+ hits and a chance to actually kill a couple models; something that increases with larger squads too. But in general I don't think thats anything amazeballs. Yeh you might prevent a charge on occasion, but I think its actually worth losing the overwatch for a 2+ save. The Big Mek in MA with a KMB, even in a BW provides some serious durability. throw in a challenge mek and maybe a painboy and I actually think the unit could work pretty well as an assault intended shooty unit. I mean, you mulch them into the ground with the volume of fire, then charge. The gitz have nob statlines and even with just choppas are gona put down some hurt. The obvious asnwer with MA is the 'oh you should always be the one charging' which is something I can aim for, but I think with an ork list this could be possible given how many units a normal ork list is throwing forward.

3 - Warboss with EA, PK and DLS - with a retinue of flash gitz and a painboy. Loaded into a BW this unit could provide some serious pain. The warboss with a 4+/5+++, with re-rolls; this is actually a pretty darn hard save to by-pass, with re-rolls from DLS your only looking at failing a wound 1/9 times. Obviously this only applies while you haven't failed a wound (as once you fail a wound you've failed 2 DLS rolls, aka wont be re-rolling for the rest of the turn). But with a grot orderly you have a couple extra re-rolls outside DLS. This unit can push forward and dish-out some firepower before hopefully getting a charge, or the warboss can break off to go assault something else. It's similar to the BIg Mek in MA, but you keep overwatch and have quite a lot of CC potential. Yeh you may miss a turn of shooting while in combat, but those Nob statlines are still gona do some work.

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EDIT: I am now thinking some flash gitz in a big trakk could be a good firing platform. for 75 pts you get an AV 12,11,10, 3HP - open-topped transport, with 4 big shootas and 2 grot sponsons. You can also bring it in a squadron, so 3 for 215 pts, they put out 36 Str 5 shots at BS2, while the sponsons put out 12 Str 4 shots at BS3; of which they can individually target.

You can then load one with some flash gitz, another with some lootas and the final could either be empty, or loaded with shoota boys. Then you can put the empty one slightly ahead so it recieves all the enemy fire first, or you can keep it behind so that when one is popped your dakkadakka units can simply hop into the next vehicle. I know AV12 ain't exactly special, but its still gona take some serious fire power, coupled with say a Big Mek on bike with the KFF or MFF. Or for more armour add a morkanaught behind, providing KFF and fire support.

Ooooh, im now thinking badrukk's formation, with 10 gitz in 2 of the big trakks then badrukk with some lootas in the final. Could be some serious firepower and transport wise only the cost of 2 barebones battlewagons.

I would avoid putting them with a megamek, the loss of overwatch is a big deal.

sometimes overlooked, models in an open topped transport can fire overwatch if their transport is assaulted.

There is a flash gitz mob of 5 with a special model from the 'heroes of sanctus reach' that always fires at ap1, the rest of the mob rolls still tho.

 hordrak wrote:
Sorry, but a Megamek doesn't grant them BS3 after moving. SnP does not interact with Assault weapons - only Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance.

'

What he said - SNP and gitfindas don't interact.

Before codex came out, flash gitz were a unit I was really hoping for - I was even thinking they would replace lootas as orky ranged support, because (and I know this is a controversial opinion) lootas, in my experience, are TERRIBLE. Always, ALWAYS a disappointment, no matter how many times I give them a shot.

Anyways, flash gitz didn't turn out nearly as good as I had hoped. Losing 4+ armor was huge. Short range + 6 + armor = bad times. Their 3 shots is great, their str 5 is....middling, and I miss being able to upgrade to str 6. I kind of miss the ap -1 roll, but I DON'T miss the weapons getting hot.

Their gitfindas are almost useless. Due to their poor range, I always find them moving to shoot - I think they've used their BS3 like maybe 3 times in 6+ games with them. I'd trade them for their old ignore cover gitfindas in a heartbeat.

But put them in a battlewagon (a killkannon is a perfect compliment to FG), though, and a lot of their mobility and poor save issues go away. My problem is that battlewagons within 24" have a tendency to explode or get torrent flamer'd (or both), which are both devastating to passengers.

For me, flash gitz do decent work until their battlewagon blows up (which it always does). They then don't last a turn. They often times don't outlast the same enemy shooting phase in which their wagon blows up.

Either 4+ armor or 36" range would make all the difference in the world, to me.

As for assault......bleh. I've never used them for assault, and I don't intend to. For one thing, mine simply don't survive long enough that close to the enemy. For another, unupgraded nobz without 2x CCWs aren't threating to much outside guardsmen, and they don't have the numbers to use MR to any reliable effectiveness.

I'd happily trade assault 3 24" to rapid fire 2 36" (4 shots within 18" - does rapid fire work this way?). They.....just aren't an assault unit. At all.

At the very least, I love the models, and all the extra bits that came with one box left over enough to easily kitbash another 5.

They are a decent unit, but they just don't function very well without character support...but you can say that about most Ork units.

I have seen no need for character support with them. When they were used against me, they seemed to function as brutally as can be.

No access to heavy armor is my only complaint.

For me they are better than lootas. More shots on average, mobile, better BS, better AP and better in cc.

I actually find them great MC hunters due to shot volume and chance to ignore armor.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
No access to heavy armor is my only complaint.

For me they are better than lootas. More shots on average, mobile, better BS, better AP and better in cc.

I actually find them great MC hunters due to shot volume and chance to ignore armor.

Alas, GW decided to trade a nice 4+ for stupid Bosspoles on every model. I don't think the are better than lootas, I think they work great together - the lootas wreck tanks and the flash gitz finish the heavy armoured guys. I usualy take both of them.

Im using them as part of a frustrating rush army. Lots of killy things, but small units. That way, they might get wiped, but other stuff gets ignored.