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 paulson games wrote:
If you want a terrifying experience watch anything by Micheal Bay, then realize he's still getting paid to make movies.

I haven't been able to sleep right since Transformers 4.

Well, he sure likes that money!
(Certainly one of the best ERB, but I am very biased )

I agree with pretty much what has been said extolling the praises of Alien. I think what is missed by the present generation is that watching that movie for the first time in 1979 on the big screen, compared to 2015 on the television, just doesn't capture the same level of scary. I think the only way you could come close to it, is to have a 60" TV, watch it at night, with the lights off. Even so, with all the other things we have seen since 1979, I believe it wouldn't have the same impact to someone who watched it for the first time in 2015, just due to the techno savy generation we are now in 2015 vs 1979. I mean seriously, in 1979 most of the country still only had 3 channel TV, and no cable TV, and this was before VHS..no where near DVD.

I also love Aliens but for a different reason.

I could watch both of them and never get tired of them.

GG

Everyone else has said pretty much what I have to say about Alien. It is my favorite movie for exactly the reasons presented here.

I think the modern era has desensitized younger folks to the extent that they are numb to what made Alien so disturbing at the time.

After having played the new video game, Alien:Isolation, I found myself experiencing the same terror as I felt when I initially saw the movie. Perhaps younger folks can try the game and you'll have some sort of idea of what the movie did for the rest of us.

The problem with movies today is the same as with most things. Power creep. As the envelope keeps getting pushed further and further, what was terrifying in the day now pales by comparison.

I wonder if it went to get rated today if it would still be a R movie, or be downgraded to NC-17 or even PG-13.

One thing I particularly liked about Alien (and Aliens) is how filthy and run-down the setting looks. Same as the original Star Wars trilogy. There's missing paint, bare-scratched metal and machines that actually look like they've seen heavy use. Real people could exist there, working their butts off and too tired to go slap fresh paint on something that works. It's easier to imagine yourself there, watching the movie in your own home where a few things could also use a touch-up when you have time and energy.

Newer movies with shining white computer-generated buildings and ships just don't seem as realistic somehow.

I concur with the general consensus that Alien totally holds up, but because of it's status as a game changer and genre setter might feel a bit... passe I suppose, for people familiar with it's runty children that have been cribbing from it's notebook.

Alien set a standard for space horror and horror in general, but won't get much of a jump from people today. The Citizen Kane reference is a good one.

I think Aliens ages better because of the world building. You know there is an entire civilization and community outside of what Ripley experiences, and it feels very real and lived in (Spetulhu touched on this).

I think it also has to do with the fact you have the bravado and military style of a Vietnam-era movie, without the moral quandaries of invading a foreign nation or forced conscription.

The other issue you might be having it "Knew" what the Ailen looked like before you ever saw the movie. So there was no "Shock Value" to it.
It is also not a Space Move, it was a Horror Movie set in space.

I saw it when it first came out and it was scarey the same way Halloween/Friday the 13th did.

Alien was a lot more tense than Aliens. Aliens felt more like thriller and action, while Alien really built up the story and atmosphere. Personally, I like Aliens better than Alien, but I still love Alien for what it was and how it set up the sequel.

It's the same feeling I have about Terminator and T2. I love T2 more than T1 due to the better action and pacing, but I still really enjoy T1 for the same reasons I enjoy Alien.

Frankly though, if you didn't like Alien, no one can really tell you why you should like it.

Edit: Also in the same vein, a lot of people don't understand why the original Halloween was so scary. I think the film is still remarkable and has aged pretty well, but my wife's sister (who was 13 at the time) watched it with a friend at 4 in the afternoon, with all the lights on, and said it wasn't scary.

This was also the same child who saw Zombieland at 12, so past scares had no impact on her.

As has been said before, films like House of a Thousand Corpses and such really pushed the envelope on what makes a film scary or gorey, but by extent have ruined a lot of classic films. I made my wife watch the very first Night of the Living Dead with me and I realized that while I found the film terrifying at 14 years old, it was almost laughable when I watched it a couple months ago.

I feel like horror is one of the truly hard genres to make a film in, because in romantic films or drama or comedy you can always go for the cheap way out to make people feel something with your movie. Conversely, in horror if you just slap some gore and scares in there, the film comes out feeling cheap.

One of my favorite examples of this is John Carpenter's The Thing. While there were a lot of gross and gorey parts of the movie, what made it terrifying is the way the gorey was used to create an unsettling yet still real feel to the movie. When the scene with the doctor happened, you didn't laugh at the special effects, it genuinely disturbed you because of the unsettling nature of it.

TL,DR: Kids these days don't know what true horror is


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spetulhu wrote:
One thing I particularly liked about Alien (and Aliens) is how filthy and run-down the setting looks. Same as the original Star Wars trilogy. There's missing paint, bare-scratched metal and machines that actually look like they've seen heavy use. Real people could exist there, working their butts off and too tired to go slap fresh paint on something that works. It's easier to imagine yourself there, watching the movie in your own home where a few things could also use a touch-up when you have time and energy.

Newer movies with shining white computer-generated buildings and ships just don't seem as realistic somehow.

This. A lot of movies forget how simple things like dirt and grime can really create a real life setting. Unless you're in a microchip factory, the ceilings and walls won't be spotless.

Alien was also one of the first flims to de-glamourise space travel. Most science fiction films beforehand made space seem exciting and spaceships clean and awe inspiring.

In Alien transpoting cargo through space seemed like another dirty and grimey job. Sort of like being in a future version of the merchant navy.

I can't agree that Star Wars seemed dirty, it was less glamorous than 2001 or Star Trek but it wasn't anywhere near as gritty as Alien. There where no sweat patches, stubble, dirty clothes, steam coming out of pipes and no smoking. The fact that loads of the crew of the crew of the Nostromo smoked really added to the atmosphere of Alien. It felt like a proper working ship.

I love 'Alien'. Still do, but I also enjoy the rest of the series. Even the much maligned 'Alien 3', which was a great movie. Even if it was a bit of a rehash of the first. Mind you, with all the British crew involved I'm probably a little biased!

As for the 'Is it a horror film or a thriller' debate, I'm more inclined to lean towards the Thriller camp. It's the same as the first 'Saw' movie, which I think is a masterful Thriller. The rest are truly terrible, but the first really stands out and is easily one of my favorite films of the past 20 years.

The power of Alien is not only the beautiful sets, amazing acting or visceral and disturbing horror, it's in the revelation of the beast it's self. All the other horror movies of it's time, and really since and before, once you finally get the revelation of the monster, well, they're a let down, even if they do look 'cool' like say the Predator, they don't terrify. When we finally saw the alien emerge from the dark, uncurling from the chains to lower it's self like a mantis, damn that thing wasn't some guy in a bad rubber mask, it was grade A terror.

The Xenomorph broke that mold, it totally departed from the 'bug eyed monster', it looked utterly unlike anything else, it's entire structure, it's movements, it's methods. Nothing else has the visual impact that thing does. It's totally eldritch, beautiful and actually looks like something that could exist. It preys on our fears, it has no eyes, no clue to an intellect or intention.

OP, you said you were entirely aware of the franchise, of the monster, of the whole modus operandi of the xenomorphs and the backstory, that's why you were not impressed. Audiences who went to see this movie had no idea, no clue what they were going to get. It blew minds and still stands as a landmark of a movie.

Alien is in my opinion a far better film.

it hasd the lived in future look which was new at the time but commonplace now. The iconography from Aliens if from Alien, just added soldiers.

As most people see the films in reverse order I can see how the orginal film is overlooked, itd also paced for its time.

Aged? Not in the slightest, it doesn't look in the least it bit 1970's it looks like a plausible future.
The pacing howeever is different, and in many ways better, its from a genre of films dedicated for an audience with an attention span, i.e not the modern audience.
If anyithing its 'aging' is a sign of a regression. Too slow? actually well paced. Too boring, not action of fast forward.

As for its horror/tension, as with all horror its only really effective once, and with alien the xenomorph is only properly seen in the closing shots of the film. This is a standard and successful horror technique. However we all know the xenomorph from aliens, AvP and the associated game franchises, and genestealers. So the mystery is gone.

It will be there for a first time viewer though, new to the franchise, whether in 1979 or now.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The power of Alien is not only the beautiful sets, amazing acting or visceral and disturbing horror, it's in the revelation of the beast it's self. All the other horror movies of it's time, and really since and before, once you finally get the revelation of the monster, well, they're a let down, even if they do look 'cool' like say the Predator, they don't terrify. When we finally saw the alien emerge from the dark, uncurling from the chains to lower it's self like a mantis, damn that thing wasn't some guy in a bad rubber mask, it was grade A terror.

The Xenomorph broke that mold, it totally departed from the 'bug eyed monster', it looked utterly unlike anything else, it's entire structure, it's movements, it's methods. Nothing else has the visual impact that thing does. It's totally eldritch, beautiful and actually looks like something that could exist. It preys on our fears, it has no eyes, no clue to an intellect or intention.

OP, you said you were entirely aware of the franchise, of the monster, of the whole modus operandi of the xenomorphs and the backstory, that's why you were not impressed. Audiences who went to see this movie had no idea, no clue what they were going to get. It blew minds and still stands as a landmark of a movie.

That and the actors had no clue what it looked like. There were not shown "Irving" until they had their screen with it.
Even John Hurt knew what was going on during the Chest Buster scene was not quite sure what was going on. The rest of the cast though they were doing a fluff luch scene that was probably going to end up on the cutting room floor.

I've read the story the the rest of the cast had no idea what was going on during the chest burster scene, but I don't buy that.

There would have to be hydroloics and lots of tubes of blood ready to go to film the scene all and it would all have to be strapped to John Hurts chest.

Perhaps the didn't know the exact nature of what was going to happen but there is no way they had no idea that something pivotal and violent was about to happen to Hurt.

Also, one interesting fact that people may not know, but the slime dripping from the Xenomorph was K-Y Jelly. The "poor" dude in the costume got rubbed up and down in the stuff by the female costume manager.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I constantly try to find a horror movie that scares me so bad that I can't sleep at night, but it hasn't happened in over six years.

If you want a terrifying experience watch anything by Micheal Bay, then realize he's still getting paid to make movies.

I haven't been able to sleep right since Transformers 4.

If I wanted that kind of terror, I'd just watch a Sarah Palin interview and remind myself this woman could have ended up as President.

Or watch a George W. Bush interview and remind yourself this man could have ended up president!

(Too soon?)

 LuciusAR wrote:
I've read the story the the rest of the cast had no idea what was going on during the chest burster scene, but I don't buy that.

Its not true. What happened was that Veronica Cartwright freaked out and went into shock because the amount of blood they were being sprayed with was underplayed deliberately. The actors knew the script and it had to be filmed over several takes, but the main chest burst scene was shot once, with offal from an abattoir packed into the cavity with high pressure air hoses. When the clapperboard went the actors got sprayed with pig guts and their reactions filmed.
I can see how the myth developed from that, its partly true.
The whole troupe was pro enough not to break character even when freaking out, shows the quality they had to work with.

 LuciusAR wrote:

Perhaps the didn't know the exact nature of what was going to happen but there is no way they had no idea that something pivotal and violent was about to happen to Hurt.

John hurt first collapsed onto the table, then was replaced by a full body prosthetic from the shoulders down. The chestburster puppet failed to break the T shirt several times so that scene was reshot, however Ridley Scott liked the blood seeping through the tee shirt so left the first take and then reshot the punch through later and spliced the two scenes together. It worked well. The chestburster scene was separate to the blood spray scene which was where the surprise happened.

Is this a troll thread?

It feel like a troll thread.

Or maybe a "Swoop 'n' Poop"?

 Alpharius wrote:
Or maybe a "Swoop 'n' Poop"?

...and the question remains: how did Alistair get his hair to look like that millenia before the invention of hair gel?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and the question remains: how did Alistair get his hair to look like that millenia before the invention of hair gel?

 Sigvatr wrote:
...and the question remains: how did Alistair get his hair to look like that millenia before the invention of hair gel?

I'm afraid that quest line was cut from the game because Bioware is adverse to fun and lightheartedness. There is only darkness.

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a troll thread?

It feel like a troll thread.

Or maybe a "Swoop 'n' Poop"?

It's a HSM thread.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
...and the question remains: how did Alistair get his hair to look like that millenia before the invention of hair gel?

I'm afraid that quest line was cut from the game because Bioware is adverse to fun and lightheartedness. There is only darkness.

And Oghren. Nothing is funnier than constant burping. Eh? Eh? Eh?

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a troll thread?

It feel like a troll thread.

Or maybe a "Swoop 'n' Poop"?

It's a HSM thread.

Im not trolling, When I watched it, it seemed like a good movie, but not ground breaking like I see it always was.
I guess the answer is, Im young and grew up knowing about the xenomorphs. And that it created so many things thatt Im used to, that I dont really think of them as new.
I mean, I like old horror sometimes.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a troll thread?

It feel like a troll thread.

Or maybe a "Swoop 'n' Poop"?

It's a HSM thread.

Im not trolling, When I watched it, it seemed like a good movie, but not ground breaking like I see it always was.
I guess the answer is, Im young and grew up knowing about the xenomorphs. And that it created so many things thatt Im used to, that I dont really think of them as new.
I mean, I like old horror sometimes.

Something can be 'groundbreaking', but only when it comes along. I think if you weren't around at that time, didn't get the 'feel' of what kind of movies were made and how that then changed afterwards, then you aren't qualified to make that judgement.

But, I'm in the same boat. Alien was released before I was born and I didn't see it until probably early 90's, when I managed to watch a copy on VHS with a mate (as everyone from my generation used to watch 'video nasties') same too really with Aliens. Both scared me a great deal, but the first and second films are very different types of movie, the first being a suspense/horror (with a fair amount of its efficacy due to it being revolting!) and the second being an action/horror. James Cameron said himself that they couldn't match the suspense of the first film and do the first film any better, so he tried to do something different with the material (something that David Finch didn't apparently realise for the third film). Despite them both being films of the same franchise, I don't think it's really fair to compare them.

I do think though that Alien has aged a lot better than a lot of films released around that time, and even those that have come afterwards. Very clever camera work, sparing shots of the alien (your imagination is building it for practically all of the film until the final scene), it is a lot slower paced than a lot of modern stuff - but, hey that's the problem with everything, life and forms of entertainment move a lot faster these days than they did 30 years ago.

I agree dude, about 4 months or something ago I watched the series because, well at 20 I had yet to watch it.

First one was ok, I mean, not bad but not amazing. I have never liked horror or anything simply because the genre in my opinion is pathetic and bland. Usually more humorous than anything. But the first Alien movie wasnt bad, just good.

The second one was pretty cool. I think its one of the better ones. It still annoys me how aliens can magically breed like rabbits with seemingly little food about, but it was pretty cool.

Then the rest of the series is straight up down hill from there. Like waaay down hill.

 Swastakowey wrote:
It still annoys me how aliens can magically breed like rabbits with seemingly little food about

IIRC they get all/most of their nutritional requirements in the chestburster phase, or immediately afterward. They are very efficient biological weapons. Perfect organism...

 Alex C wrote:
Perfect organism...

Leeloo?

 Breotan wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Perfect organism...

Leeloo?

Multipass!