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I like the mix of "real" armor over the insubstantial ghost underneath. Its a refreshing different take on what people usually paint in about 5 minutes (not that I am complaining about that effect, just refreshing to see a different take).

They look awesome. I have a few AotD metals that I won't really use for their original purpose (unless I'm playing a Pellenor/Grey Company scenario, I won't run AotD), so I may welll paint them up like this and use them for Angmar.

Very nice paintwork on some seldom seen minis!

Thank you, Gents!

Lovely miniatures. Like the others have said, the contrast between armour and weapons, face/hands and robes is really effective.

Love the Gondor soldiers.

This guy was done awhile ago (late 2012), painted for a charity auction. Very happy with how well he came out in the end. I still need to paint this model for myself. Well, I guess once Gondor is "finished", Rohan will be next up.







A couple more pics here, but they're just additional angles.

Nice work! I've always loved that Theoden sculpt!

This one goes out especially to Captain Galenus. For the White Tree!

These guys were painted last year, making up a decent chunk of the models I painted. As I've said, I wanted to avoid showing them individually (or at all) until I had more to show. Now that I've shown some of them recently, I figure I may as well start to show them off here on the blog to help motivate myself to get the army finished. I've got two units of swordsmen finished so far for Kings of War - one set up as a Regiment, and one as a Horde. They used to be three units, but I combined two into the larger unit.


Everything I said about painting them previously applied and applies just as much to these guys, as well as the ones I've still got to paint.


For Horde-sized units, I just double the number of models I use for a regiment. In this case 12->20 becomes 24->40. I think it still works, especially on the tabletop.


My two units of Sword-Armed Warriors of Minas Tirith

Can I be a pain in the proverbial (as well as show my naievity) in regards to what you mean by 12->20 and 24->40? Is it that a unit of 12 counts as units of 20?

Besides my question they look spectacular all ranked up. The paint job is great (far, far better than what I tend to do to regiments....) I like the bases a lot. What have you done with them? Painted sand with static grass?

Awesome stuff! Sure puts the one I've done recently to shame!

 Archer wrote:
Can I be a pain in the proverbial (as well as show my naievity) in regards to what you mean by 12->20 and 24->40? Is it that a unit of 12 counts as units of 20?

In Kings of War, the system Az uses for mass battle, the unit 'size' is just an indicator of how big the unit's base should be. For example, a Regiment of 20 men requires a unit base that is the same size as 20 20mm square bases (so 100x80mm). As the game mechanics are per-unit rather than per model (so you don't remove models when they die, the unit has a fixed Attack stat ect), there's no actual requirement to use that number of models so long as the overall base size is correct.

So Az uses 12 guys (on 25mm Round bases) to stand in for a regiment of 20, I go even further and use 6-10 guys on a 100x80mm base for the same unit as I prefer looser formations (and need less minis ). The game works fine either way, which is one of the best things about it.

There's a bit more discussion on this in the LotR Meets KoW thread a few lines down.

Thanks a lot Paradigm. Sorry for the interruption Az, please return to entertaining me with your awesome paint jobs.

No worries - and Para got it exactly. Doing it like this also means that my figures are just blu-tac-pry away from being able to be used in SBG (which I plan to get back to as well) and even WotR if I invest in enough of GW's proprietary regiment bases. Though some might say I'm doing it wrong, I'm happy, so that's all that matters!

I've just sat down with my models and worked out exactly what I need to "finish" my Gondor figures. Not counting the odd plastic fig or 6 to finish a unit once I get everything painted.

Mounted Prince Imrahil (thought I had him, but no)
1 Metal SKoDA
1 Osgilliath Vet at minimum, or preferably 2 Bows and 2 Spears - At least I can convert these
6 Clansmen of Lossarnach - or a blister of 3 + 1 extra if I tweak. (not twerk)
6 Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth
4 Warriors of Arnor
5 Guardians of the Fountain Court

Plus anything interesting as extras, like the WoTR Command Group with the nice big banner, and the 2-handed sword guy in it.

That's also not counting Men of Numenor - which I haven't decided what to do with yet. Paint them black as in the opening or FotR? Paint them with blue as Dol Amroth troops (with slightly different shields? Green for Arnor? I really don't know yet. I'll no doubt also need to "round out" those figures as well, but I'm sure it won't be too hard to do.


Hm.... maybe that extra SKoDA I found was actually Imrahil. I'll have to check in the morning. It'll mean I need 2 metal SKoDA instead of one, but not Imrahil. Which should be cheaper.
Unless I run the metal ones as a unique unit of 3>5 and have the standard as a separate army standard. In which case I wouldn't need any more...

It is a pity there are no dedicated models for the western Fiefs of Gondor, such as Erech, Morthond Vale, Pinnath Gelin, or the Langstrand.

They try to pass off using Rangers of Gondor for Morthond Vale, but the Rangers are Light Troops, mostly intended for Skirmishing, and the Morthond Vale troops were formed Archers with a small number of Spearmen to their front. Think sort of like English Longbowmen with Billmen to their front as protection.

And like English Longbowmen, they could be very heavily armored.

The Pinnath Gelin "troops" (if they could really be called that) were closer to the Rangers, but they would have much more ragged clothing, and no swords. They were hunters, and highlanders who simply gathered for a battle. They are described in The Levy of the Fiefs as being light archers, carrying long knives, and wearing light green, and brown clothing that offered no protection.

I have some sloppy sketches of some Mid-3rd Age troops from these regions, which likely would not have changed a lot in the next 1200 years, but they are in the next lot of miniatures to sculpt after I finish the Hithaeglir Lesser-Orcs/Goblins.

I'll dig out the sketches this evening to post for people to take a look at.

MB


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As for the Men of Númenóre....

I would go with using them as the troops from Dol Amroth. The Númenórean Spearmen would be very close to what most of the Standing Levy of Gondor would have looked like.

If you have the "gumption" to do so, if you swapped some heads from a few of the metal Gondorians (I think there are some Captains, and a few others with the later winged-helms of Gondor out there... Or do a press-mold of the head to use) to get a selection that had a variety of helmets (older and newer) it would look cool...

But I think they would look better as Dol Amroth troops.

MB

If you have any specific ideas on how any of the recent ranges of plastic Perry troops could be used as Fiefdom troops, I'm certainly interested.

As for the Men of Numenor figures, most are armed with sword and shield - I've got 2 spearmen, and another 4 coming, so I'll need an additional 6 to make a functional unit.. and no archers at all.

Which helmets are you talking about? Do you mean putting these helmets


onto these figures?


I do have a few of these heads from eBob as well. Well, enough for (I think) 24 figures, so either 2 regiment-sized units or one Horde.


http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/components.htm

I originally got them for headswaps on the SKoDA cavalry and infantry (to remove their ridiculous "high elf" helmets), but I'm loath to cut off heads from figures that are now expensive, discontinued and hard to get - especially now that more sane-looking SKoDA figures are readily available - but more than happy to take off the heads of regular plastic WoMT to turn them into additional Dol Amroth troops. Swan on the helm and Tree on the chest. Not entirely ideal. I could scrape the tree off, or leave it there as a mark of their shared heritage and status as Gondor troops. And then press-mould some shield overlays from the foot SKoDA figures.

Here's an idea that may work:

If you want to put Ebob heads on the WoMT bodies, you could stick the WoMT heads on the Numenor bodies, perhaps convert those without to have spears, and use them as Citadel Guard (if they can take a shield, I'm not sure) or counts-as GotFC. They have the capes and such to fit as either, stick on some WoMT heads and they'll look less overtly Numenor, more MT. It would certainly be more useful and cheaper than trying to put together a 2nd Age Numenor army.

As for Perry conversions, I will be using the Foot Knights kit to represent MAA of Dol Amroth (with or without swapped helmets). There's enough 2-handed-polearms per sprue that you could give them all Pikes easily enough, and in theory enough open helms to work.

That could work, though my hopeful plan is to bring the Gondor force to a close, simply by using all of my existing models as whatever works, and then perhaps supplementing them with a unit or so of additional Fiefdom troops via the Perry ranges. I'm thinking one unit per fiefdom really - maybe two max if I do something like what BA suggests for Blackroot/Morthond Vale as they will be more for colour with the exception of Dol Amroth, since I've got a few more of those already. So they will be more of a contingent than the others.

No shields for the Citadel Guard, I'm afraid (just checked), and since I haven't got any painted Numenorian figures, I'm now thinking that I'd prefer to avoid converting them at all, so I have some "original" figures painted up (especially as I don't have all that many of them) - especially as they have a distinctly different look compared to the 3rd Age WoMT figures. The Foot Knights are a good idea, though.

I'll have one single unit worth of Arnor spears (when I get hold of a couple more figures). Not terribly exciting, though I'm thinking I'll still paint them in the appropriate colour (which seems to be green?) as I also have the Arvedui and Malbeth figures and would like to use them in SBG scenario play (and as generic heroes in KoW) - so again - no conversion planned. Any idea of which of the 3rd Age Fiefdoms they could easily stand in for when painted in the more-or-less "official" scheme?



The thought of finishing this army and putting a cap on it is really something I'm liking. In all of my many years of wargaming, I've had many armies on the table, but never actually "finished" an army to the point where I was completely done. The prospect of doing so here is actually pretty exciting. (Painting the Nth version of Aragorn/Boromir don't count towards or against "finished")

I've finished a pair of War Machines for my growing Gondor army. As fate would have it, right after photographing these guys the other day I won a second one of each on eBay, so I'll have to do a followup post to this one in a month or three when they've been paired. I think two of each should be plenty - both for games of LotR and KoW.







I'm not entirely sure which crewmen go with which artillery piece, except for the guy with more bolts, but it hardly matters anyway. Like a lot of the LotR range, and the Gondor/Minas Tirith stuff specifically, they're straightforward models that aren't anything flashy, but look good en masse and on the tabletop.

Really the Perry Plastics area too late-period for Middle-earth.

Peter Jackson's depictions are really too late-period, with too much plate armor. Tolkien was very explicit in both The Letters of JRRT and The History of Middle-earth that Middle-earth mankind remained roughly approximate to 700 - 1100AD England (which some specific comparisons slightly earlier and/or geographically distinct)

But Peter Jackson's is roughly 1250 - 1350 Italian, whereas the Plastic Perry stuff is roughly 1400 - 1500 English/French.

The Billmen would be something to completely avoid.

But the HYW Archers might work with eBob head-swaps (now that I think about it, I should produce some helmets and heads, which I could do in a couple of hours, and the printing costs would be <$100).

Also... The plastic Númenóreans are too small to use for most head swaps. The early LotR plastic stuff was tiny compared to later.

For other Fiefs, the eBob heads on miniatures like the Fireforge Norman foot, or the Perry Crusader Foot, would give you Levy troops for places like Linhir, Erech, Pelargir, Belfalas, Lebennin, or Morthond (not the Vale where the Archers come from, but the lowlands).

I have a list of the fiefs that Tolkien defined in working out the establishment of Gondor, but these likely will have had some change as Gondor Aged (with things like the Establishment of Dol Amroth, or the loss of Umbar and back-and-forth of Harondor).

As for the SWoDA.... The original metal ones.... I took a file and mill to their helmets (which I measured as being almost 28" tall, or 36" for the whole helmet) to bring them down to a more "normal" height. The swan head/neck sticking up and the shape of the remaining helmet looks really good.

But it was a freaking LOT of work, and with the release of the plastic ones, which look less laughable, the work seems to have been for nothing.

MB

I appreciate the feedback. I might use a few armoured Perry figures - either whole or in part - to kitbash some equivalents to the Knights of the White Tower models.

The HYW archers don't seem like they'd take the eBob heads very well, and the eBob heads are pretty specifically Dol Amroth themed anyway - they were originally sculpted as replacements for the SKoDA and FKoDA models. It doesn't come across all that well in the photos on his website, but the embellishments on them are a swan with spread wings (the swan's head above the forehead). I bought them with the intent of decapitation and replacement, but like yourself with several of the new plastic boxes in hand, I'm not going to cut up the older metals any more.

As I've said, I prefer to keep the Numenorians' heads as-is, with variation only in their paint, so there's no issues there.

I won't be buying any Perry metals, due to issues I've already spoken about with shipping and alternate supply - though their mailed spearmen aren't unreasonably priced - but still their crusades range is out.

When you say Fireforge Normans, do you mean the Conquest ones? Fireforge don't have Normans.

Any ideas on colour schemes for the Feifdoms?

Yes, Conquest.

I have moments of plastic confusion.

MB


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And I keep telling people.

If there is something simple that you want sculpted, let me know and I can produce it pretty easily.

Creating replacement heads is a breeze, and something I should have done ages ago.

But I could also produce weapons, or weapon-arms (since some of the troops have separate weapon arms with weapons).

And this might make for a better initial Kickstarter than my Goblins/Orcs, which seem to be something that confuse some people who do not understand the reasons for them,

MB

Since your primary focus seems to be LotR, you'd probably get more interest over on The One Ring - though it's worth
pointing out that ToR seems to be more heavily moderated than here, so.. let's say "over-correcting" people on Tolkien when you get there in the manner of the Cacti etc might get you shut down more quickly by their mods.

I'd recommend making some mock-ups, even sketches on paper of something like heads that you're capable of creating that fit a nice compromise between the PJ films' aesthetic and what you consider properly correct (assuming you want to sell a nice number of them) and then showing them both here and there in order to work out what to produce.

Maybe stuff set up to go on the Fireforge Crusaders and also some for the Conquest Normans. I think you need to set up designs that can work well for (name your Fiefdom/s) and then show them to people, rather than expecting that people will ask for something to represent (say) Erech - because people will not think of it, but may well be receptive if you show them something that they can just stick on the body of a Numenor or Minas Tirith figure for this new, cool result!

Shields would be the other thing to do. Shields that plug into the peg-holes of the Numenorian models that have heraldry appropriate to the Fiefdom(s) of your choice and again fit in broadly with the PJ/Weta/GW aesthetic. Should also be pretty easy.

The shields I have already started on.

And I have some weapons that I should probably get attached to some arms for the plastic Númenóreans as well (mostly spears, but a few axes as well).

I originally made the shields for the Minas Tirith Cavalry, since each Fief would have similar Mounted Chivalry, but they would display their local device.

But the heads for The Fireforge and Conquest plastics make sense, thanks.

MB


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As forThe One Ring, they are too much a collection of Fan-boys for the Jackson movies, and have not an inkling of why the alterations of Jackson are such a large issue.

Tolkien himself made it pretty clear what he though of such alterations when the first production of The Lord of the Rings was ended because the producers wanted to put beaks and feathers on the Orcs (because making them human looking would 'send the wrong message'). Tolkien was outraged, and refused almost every other offer afterwards to produce movies (Saul Zaentz pretty much lied his way into Tolkien's graces to get the movie rights).

I see my attitude toward Tolkien as no different than other's attitudes toward 40k, or WWII, or anything else about which they have a passion.

Imagine if a Flames of War player had pointed out to another that putting penguins on the bases of their Africa Corps Panzers might not be something one would see in the Tunisian Deserts.

No one would bat an eye.

Yet that is effectively no different than pointing out that desert succulents would not have existed in the Middle-earth Harad regions.

MB

It really is very different indeed, because one is historical fact that remains on the edges of living memory where real people fought hard and lost their lives while the other is an obscure footnote for a generally unimportant region in a famous author's lesser-known works. Not to mention that one is cartoonishly unrealistic while the other would not look out of place to most people.

ahem.

The point about TOR is of course not how much they are fans of the PJ movies, but how much of a dedicated and receptive audience they would be - and in fact already are for alternative LotR stuff as long as it doesn't come with a lecture on how they're doing it wrong. If you want to sell alternate LotR stuff, there's already a few people there selling their own sculpts, etc, and if you can manage to show off your stuff there without alienating them then you'll be able to garner a lot more support for both your add-on bits as well as any figures you produce that are more true to the writings. I'm genuinely trying to offer helpful and useful advice. You just need to be able to turn off your inner Sheldon when you go there.

...

If you're going to make arms, I'm not sure if it would be worth doing some other/alternate weapons for figures like the Warriors of Arnor? They only have spear options in the official line, but on the other hand, they are a relatively obscure and unimportant part of the official LotR range, and accordingly they are both expensive and hard to get hold of for collectors - so possibly not worth the effort on your part.

I recognize that you are trying to be helpful.

As for "turning off my inner Sheldon...."

Like Sheldon.... I probably would if I could.

Like his character (which is based upon very real people) I don't often think there is anything at all wrong with anything I say, and it is genuinely puzzling when people get all bent out of shape.

MB

In more useful news - I found 6 Clansmen of Lamedon in a baggie inside a box of LotR figures today, so I don't need to buy any more blisters of them - and in fact I now have 1 spare figure to use elsewhere (I already have an idea, will see if it pans out after I paint all the rest) as well as the ability to use Angbor as a separate hero model.

BA - any suggestions on Tartan/colours to use on their belted plaid? I'll be avoiding the blue GW scheme, and I'm somewhat tempted to use Rowdy Roddy Piper's personal Tartan.

Tartans are a problem, as Tolkien had tended toward a color scheme for good/bad guys, that was particularly rigid in Gondor.

Blue, Green, Brown, Black, Silver/White: Good

Red, Yellow/Gold, Orange, Black: Bad

Brown could go either way, it was the colors that were matched to it.

And Violet is not mentioned much.

There are some contradictions to these schemes in the heraldry of the Noldorim Noble Houses, and for the Éotheod, where we might find more generous uses of red and yellow, but they tended to be as accents and not as primary colorations.

And Tatar would typically be more fitting for Lossarnach than Lamedon.

But a Green and Brown Tartan with a Blue and Red Pinpoint pattern would look good (as long as the red was very muted or not something external).

It would match really well with the rest of Gondor's colors (Blues, Greens, Browns, Silver/White). Green and Silver makes for a particularly stunning color combination done correctly.

If you made the breastplates a deep metallic green, with a white tree, and the tartan a sympathetic green, with a rich, dark brown, and a bright blue, and burgundy red.... Stunning....

Oh, and Calembel is the seat of Lamedon... If you wanted to do any troops from Calembel, they would be typical Spearmen in Green and White, probably unarmored, or wearing chain.

The cities tended to raise Spearmen in local livery (which was what Aragorn used in the fight against the Corsairs and Southrons once The Dead were finished with them). The Lamedon figures made by GW could be used as Highlanders (which is supposed to be what Lossarnach is... But .........).

MB



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Forgot this:

Tartan samples:

http://albanach.org/articles.html?http%3A//albanach.org/colors.html


MB

Hm.. .well, I've already painted my Axemen of Lossarnach with a red/white scheme with silver metals. I'd like to keep the plate a steel/silver to keep that thread running through my Gondor force.

I'll have to have a good look at some green-based tartans. Since I'll be painting these on 14 figures, rather than one or two, it needs to be something that I'll be able to finish in a reasonable amount of time, rather than becoming such a pain in the arse that it drives me to stab myself in the neck.

I'm going to have one unit worth of Arnor figures that I'd also like to have a 3rd-age "name" (since Arnor obviously ain't happening alongside a 3rd age Gondor force) so I might call them a unit of spear from Calembel/Lamedon. They have a breastplate, but also most of the rest of their armour is chain unlike the typical WoMT models.

The Arnorians remind me a little bit of Dark Ages Iberians, or Charlemagnean Franks.

Which tends to be what most people typically think off when they think of Arnor, since both kingdoms split into three upon their deaths.

But they would probably (the appearances) be closer to Harondor, or Lebenin (the southernmost fied of Gondor at the time of the War of the Ring - seat at Pelargir). If they were painted in a if they were painted in a blue, green, and yellow palate, they would work pretty well as the Caras Maedhrym (city's standing warriors). The shields would need a different device, probably a Dromon, or Carack with a tree on the sail.

I am trying to get some devices created for the various fiefs that can be made into decals for the shields (and the shields just filed down).

Any of the levies aren't going to be so well armored, and it would only be the city troops (Minas Tirith, Pelargir, Linhir, Erech, Gonallach - Lossarnach, Calembel - Lamedon, etc...) that would have that kind of armor (at least if one follows what Peter Jackson was doing).

I suppose they could work for Calembel City troops, since Lamedon, after Lebennin and Belfalas (Dol Amroth) was the richest fief, and would be able to put out such troops (probably very few though).

The Stuff Peter Jackson's designers came up with would really have worked better as Fourth Age Gondorians, toward the end of Eldarion's reign, or immediately after it, during the events of The Shadow Returns when Orcs returned in number to threaten Gondor, led by mysterious Sorcerers out of the East (Tolkien ended the work prematurely, because it was proving to be just another sword & sorcery thriller - pity, he would have bested Howard at his own game).

MB