Unexplored Primarch Relationships

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**ImAGeek**

Otto Weston wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Wulfmar wrote:
Does make you wonder why there are no female Primarchs. Not that it's particularly important I guess.

Why does it make you wonder? It's not like the Primarchs were ever going to be made to breed.

In Scars, Malcador mentions female Primarchs. He says 'You brothers, such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.'

Made me laugh.

........ Now we need a quote from Malcador saying, 'I told you so', during the heresy. Seriously though, I need to look up that quote - might be my new favourite for a while

Just read Scars, the whole book is excellent

I'm not sure I agree that making them sisters would've made them any less a 'nest of rivalries' though.

**lcmiracle**

Bah, what did Malcador know about women? It wouldn't surprise me the if he had asked the Emperor "My Lord, where do babies come from?"

**ImAGeek**

There's actually a lot of Primach interaction in Scars. Just rereading it now and I really like the conversation between Sanguinius, Fulgrim, the Khan and Mortarion on Ullanor.

**Shidank**

ImAGeek wrote:

Just read Scars, the whole book is excellent I'm not sure I agree that making them sisters would've made them any less a 'nest of rivalries' though.

I actually have sisters. Rather than 200 years of cooperation, the great crusade would flounder and infighting would have broken out immediately.

Emperor: "Girls, stop-- what are you-- PUT YOUR SISTER DOWN!"

**ImAGeek**

Shidank wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:

Just read Scars, the whole book is excellent I'm not sure I agree that making them sisters would've made them any less a 'nest of rivalries' though.

I actually have sisters. Rather than 200 years of cooperation, the great crusade would flounder and infighting would have broken out immediately.

Emperor: "Girls, stop-- what are you-- PUT YOUR SISTER DOWN!"

'Don't pull her hair!' Haha, I don't personally have sisters but my girlfriend and her sisters have shown me it would have been just as bad if not worse haha.

**gorgon**

dusara217 wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
EngulfedObject wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:
Angron and Perturabo to see if there was any sort of bond as there seems to be something there in Aurelian.

Guilliman and Alpharius would also be interesting.

Horus and Corax to see what leads up to Corax deciding to no longer work along side Horus.

The Battle of Gate 42 in Extermination is why Corax doesn't work with Horus. Although there isn't anything really about their interaction, but that battle is the reason why.
Damn, beat me to it!

I was about to post that but decided to check if there was any interaction leading up to Horus sending them into the meat grinder. Didn't find anything , but there's some interaction between Corax and Perturabo (Perturabo accusing him of being a coward) and Russ calming Corax down and counseling him to obey Horus.

This is also shortly after Horus was named Warmaster so it seems he hadn't turned to Chaos yet. I find this odd since the IA and other sources usually say that Horus used the different legions for missions that suited them best. Charging head-on into the enemy doesn't seem like a good use of the Raven Guard.

I just find it funny that it's Russ that defuses the situation haha. Maybe Horus was counting on the XIX legion he basically fathered before Corax was discovered, the more bloodthirsty vicious ones. Although that does seem an oversight on his part. It's a cool little story though, and I like how it accidentally culled the RG of most of the legionnaires who would have turned with Horus.

Hey, Russ is the King of Bros, he parties and does bro stuff for a living, you think he can't keep two bros from goin' at it?

I really like the bit in Betrayer that suggested the War Hounds (later the World Eaters) and Space Wolves were incorrectly named. The SW were really the hounds, loyal to a fault. And Angron's bunch were the real wolves.

Anyway, in that instance Russ was just acting as a herding dog...keeping the flock together, keeping everyone in line.

**Shidank**

gorgon wrote:

I really like the bit in Betrayer that suggested the War Hounds (later the World Eaters) and Space Wolves were incorrectly named. The SW were really the hounds, loyal to a fault. And Angron's bunch were the real wolves.

Anyway, in that instance Russ was just acting as a herding dog...keeping the flock together, keeping everyone in line.

I always took this to be the author not knowing how wolves operate or Angron(was it Angron who said this?) not knowing, but Wolves respond to an Alpha. I never took Russ's behavior as loyalty in the same shade as Dorn. now Dorn was loyal to a fault. Russ just respected the Alpha and did as told.

Angron was not a wolf. He was a rabid dog. His legion's name fit.

**King Pariah**

jareddm wrote:
For those interested there was a fan project a number of years ago that attached the primarchs to the major arcana of the tarot, with impressive accuracy. but what was important was the relationships between tarot could be used to make inference between the relationships between primarchs.

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html.

That was an interesting read, Thanks for sharing

**Poly Ranger**

I got a 404 from that link :-s

**dusara217**

Wulfmar wrote:
Does make you wonder why there are no female Primarchs. Not that it's particularly important I guess.

'Cause then the Emprah'd have to worry about incest

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
Wulfmar wrote:
Does make you wonder why there are no female Primarchs. Not that it's particularly important I guess.

Why does it make you wonder? It's not like the Primarchs were ever going to be made to breed.

In Scars, Malcador mentions female Primarchs. He says 'You brothers, such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.'

Made me laugh.

Wait, what? Sisters would be even worse, they would've been killing eachother long before the Heresy, for the stupidest of reasons. Have you ever been in a house full of women? Believe me, it's like living in a nest of vipers. It would have been better if they had made the Primarchs at least a quarter female, so as to ensure that there would be enough to be intermediaries and keep tensions down between brothers, but not enough for it to turn into an intra-galactic cat fight

**ImAGeek**

Yes I know, I've already said it would probably be worse. The quote just makes me laugh, that's why I posted it.

**Zaki66**

ImAGeek wrote:
Magnus and Lorgar were actually good friends. They have a couple of interactions; pre heresy in First Heretic, and briefly post heresy in Betrayer.

Wasn't Magnus like one of the few who didn't treat Perturabo and his Iron Warriors like crap? Makes sense seeing how they are both really the academic-types who likes to study and create.

**ImAGeek**

Zaki66 wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Magnus and Lorgar were actually good friends. They have a couple of interactions; pre heresy in First Heretic, and briefly post heresy in Betrayer.

Wasn't Magnus like one of the few who didn't treat Perturabo and his Iron Warriors like crap? Makes sense seeing how they are both really the academic-types who likes to study and create.

I'm not sure. I could see them getting on like you say, they're both academics. And I don't think Perturabo was against the Librarius so I don't see any conflict there. But I dunno if maybe Pert was a bit brutal for Magnus. He might've burned that bridge with his decimation.

**jareddm**

Poly Ranger wrote:
I got a 404 from that link :-s

Ack! I just realized the period at the end of the link got attached to the link itself.

Here's a cleaner link: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

**Zaki66**

ImAGeek wrote:
Zaki66 wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Magnus and Lorgar were actually good friends. They have a couple of interactions; pre heresy in First Heretic, and briefly post heresy in Betrayer.

Wasn't Magnus like one of the few who didn't treat Perturabo and his Iron Warriors like crap? Makes sense seeing how they are both really the academic-types who likes to study and create.

I'm not sure. I could see them getting on like you say, they're both academics. And I don't think Perturabo was against the Librarius so I don't see any conflict there. But I dunno if maybe Pert was a bit brutal for Magnus. He might've burned that bridge with his decimation.

I'm not sure from where but I somewhat remember a fluff that said that Magnus appreciated Perturabo's scholarly side.... or something along that line. And its not like Magnus isn't brutal, he is still a Primarch who's purpose was to wage warfare. But I think what you were trying to say is Perturabo is much more prone to being emotionally unstable compared to Magnus who is logic-over-emotion kinda type. Perturabo has been depicted in many ways but one thing that is consistent is how he switches from cold, calculating genius to angry, fit-throwing maniac rather easily.

**ImAGeek**

Zaki66 wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Zaki66 wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Magnus and Lorgar were actually good friends. They have a couple of interactions; pre heresy in First Heretic, and briefly post heresy in Betrayer.

Wasn't Magnus like one of the few who didn't treat Perturabo and his Iron Warriors like crap? Makes sense seeing how they are both really the academic-types who likes to study and create.

I'm not sure. I could see them getting on like you say, they're both academics. And I don't think Perturabo was against the Librarius so I don't see any conflict there. But I dunno if maybe Pert was a bit brutal for Magnus. He might've burned that bridge with his decimation.

I'm not sure from where but I somewhat remember a fluff that said that Magnus appreciated Perturabo's scholarly side.... or something along that line. And its not like Magnus isn't brutal, he is still a Primarch who's purpose was to wage warfare. But I think what you were trying to say is Perturabo is much more prone to being emotionally unstable compared to Magnus who is logic-over-emotion kinda type. Perturabo has been depicted in many ways but one thing that is consistent is how he switches from cold, calculating genius to angry, fit-throwing maniac rather easily.

Well I guess that's, and also the whole decimation thing that Pert did when he took over command of the IW, I'd imagine Magnus might find that unnessecary and brutal, and might've nipped any friendship in the bud there and then. I dunno though, nothing's really been written about their relationship has it?

**Veteran Sergeant**

Pilau Rice wrote:Guilliman and Alpharius would also be interesting.

Didn't they already explore this one?

Alpharius got his feelings hurt when Guilliman told him that wasting time and bolter shells was a waste of time and bolter shells. Then, depending on whether you like the good fluff or the bad fluff, he either got a hug from Horus and decided because Horus was the only brother that didn't criticize him, he'd follow his lead. Or, he got tricked by Eldar into betraying humanity.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dusara217 wrote:
Wulfmar wrote:
Does make you wonder why there are no female Primarchs. Not that it's particularly important I guess.

'Cause then the Emprah'd have to worry about incest

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
Wulfmar wrote:
Does make you wonder why there are no female Primarchs. Not that it's particularly important I guess.

Why does it make you wonder? It's not like the Primarchs were ever going to be made to breed.

In Scars, Malcador mentions female Primarchs. He says 'You brothers, such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.'

Made me laugh.

Wait, what? Sisters would be even worse, they would've been killing eachother long before the Heresy, for the stupidest of reasons. Have you ever been in a house full of women? Believe me, it's like living in a nest of vipers. It would have been better if they had made the Primarchs at least a quarter female, so as to ensure that there would be enough to be intermediaries and keep tensions down between brothers, but not enough for it to turn into an intra-galactic cat fight

To be fair, if some of the traitor primarchs were female, it would make their seemingly incomprehensible reasons for turning traitor a bit more believable.

**Redcruisair**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
To be fair, if some of the traitor primarchs were female, it would make their seemingly incomprehensible reasons for turning traitor a bit more believable.

Why?

**Pilau Rice**

ImAGeek wrote:

Well I guess that's, and also the whole decimation thing that Pert did when he took over command of the IW, I'd imagine Magnus might find that unnessecary and brutal, and might've nipped any friendship in the bud there and then. I dunno though, nothing's really been written about their relationship has it?

Just in the exchange between Perturabo and the Emperor in Angel Exterminatus where Perturabo says that he thinks that him and Magnus will be friends.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:Guilliman and Alpharius would also be interesting.
Didn't they already explore this one?

Alpharius got his feelings hurt when Guilliman told him that wasting time and bolter shells was a waste of time and bolter shells. Then, depending on whether you like the good fluff or the bad fluff, he either got a hug from Horus and decided because Horus was the only brother that didn't criticize him, he'd follow his lead. Or, he got tricked by Eldar into betraying humanity.

We know what was apparently said true, but I would like a bit more on the actual encounter and a bit more insight into the relationship. More of how they interacted with each other.

**ImAGeek**

Pilau Rice wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:

Well I guess that's, and also the whole decimation thing that Pert did when he took over command of the IW, I'd imagine Magnus might find that unnessecary and brutal, and might've nipped any friendship in the bud there and then. I dunno though, nothing's really been written about their relationship has it?

Just in the exchange between Perturabo and the Emperor in Angel Exterminatus where Perturabo says that he thinks that him and Magnus will be friends.

Hmm. The fact that was written makes it seem like at least McNeill thought they got on, but it was also before Perts decimation of the Iron Warriors. So I guess we don't really know without any other examples haha.

**the ancient**

Horus aint friend's with Perturabo any more. He's been made to kneel to his master.

I think Sangy might have helped Curze with his visions, And in his own weird way Curze was trying to help Vulkan understand himself.
If you crawl out of a planet's core, your probably a perpetual yourself.

**Shidank**

You may be giving Curze too much credit. I think Curze wanted to take the most 'innocent' and good of his brothers and bring him down to his level. If he could make Vulkan understand him, he could make anyone.

What happened is Vulkan instead snapped, said some VERY mean things, and hit Curze in the face.

**the ancient**

With a fork ;p

Only Vulkan could understand, though Vulkan didn't know at the time. I think he was hoping Vulkan could help because he was the best of his brothers

Being repeatedly killed, snapped Vulkan's fragile little mind, (south park voice) as a Primarch.
Being repeatedly killed as baby while he crawled out of his planet. Snapped Curze. With his fore sight, seeing every death he would ever suffer, or what would happen to Vulkan.

Though back on subject, i'd like to see how Curze and Vulkan got along before hand

**Shidank**

They have them meet and Vulkan almost beat him to death at the end of a conquest. It scared Vulkan that Curze made him lose control and immolate an Eldar child.