Switch Theme:

Space Wolves - Why all the hate?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






Finland

While they are portrayed as special snowflakes in the fluff, gameplaywise this atleast holds true. The Space Wolves last 3 codices ( at least ) have all been highly competitive when played as a drop pod styled army. It's even got a nickname of "metasmasher" in some competitive circles. It just works, from edition to edition.

   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Maybe the dislike is they are such "manly men" and sheep run scared in the streets.
They got so much overdosed testosterone that guy players are drawn to them to get hair on their chest.
Let us review the checklist shall we?


It may need an update however:

Space Wolf Card
Punch your sergeant as each task is achieved.

Grow epic fangs.
Carry knife as long as your leg.
Learn to form metal with your fingers.
Fell trees with one punch.
Hike the fang, twice.
Rebuild a Thunderhawk while fighting Orks.
Be 1/10th as manly or at least fun-loving as the All-father.
Drink Thunderhawk fuel Neat.
Stop a rampaging Squiggoth.
Build a bastion, yourself.
Survive a wolf-bite and enjoy it.
Take up breathing volcano gas for fun.
Rescue Imperial Guards from Orks (it never gets old).
Earn a scar over 1/3rd the length of your body.
Kill 12 Eldar by throwing a tree.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





TEXAS


Kill 12 Eldar by throwing a tree.


That seriously made me giggle.

ALL HAIL THE ORKISSIAH, TRINARY SPEAKING GOD OF ORK TECHNOLOGY. (Unlike wimpy old Binary, Orks have commands for Yes, No AND "Maybe")

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
In my personal scale for rating unlikely prophecies it scored two Millenium Bugs and one Mayan Apocalypse.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

I dislike that they seem hellbent on dooming humanity to chaos, and anyone who arrives to reason with them gets shot at.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




BrianDavion wrote:
natpri771 wrote:
I think SW are often criticised for being "furries". GW focuses too much on the wolves. We don't want more furry animals, we want more Viking stuff.


well yeah but that'd require research. as opposed to "wolfy mcwolf wolf, and his clawwolf!"


Hey, I have a wolf guard terminator in my army who's named Wulf McWolffangfistclaw! What are the odds?

Honestly, I think the the writers need to get beyond the goofy naming convention for these guys and use a lot more of the viking flavor for their chapter, like everyone else is saying. That would be great.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I think they are ugly and belong in another game system. Mostly I just hate cyber-wolfs.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

Part of the problem is that people read the HH fluff and the 40k current fluff and assume these event happen side by side. The truth is that the wolvss have a drastic change in how they do thing over the last 10,000 years. So much so that I doubt that they would recognize each other.

But with all things its user preference on an idea. You will never change someone's opinion on an idea with which you cannot produce fact. And as there is no fact in 40k, the haters will still hate and be just as justified in their hate as those of us who like them.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker





 Jayden63 wrote:
Part of the problem is that people read the HH fluff and the 40k current fluff and assume these event happen side by side. The truth is that the wolvss have a drastic change in how they do thing over the last 10,000 years. So much so that I doubt that they would recognize each other.

But with all things its user preference on an idea. You will never change someone's opinion on an idea with which you cannot produce fact. And as there is no fact in 40k, the haters will still hate and be just as justified in their hate as those of us who like them.


This right here is yes.

"We may be few, and our enemies many. Yet so long as there remains one of us still fighting, one who still rages in the name of justice and truth, then by the Allfather, the galaxy shall yet know hope."

-Jarl Ragnar Blackmane

3301pts
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




One of the big things, they used to be the only space marine chapter that could take the lemun russ, which is so much better than the predator. Now with allies everyone can grab tank commander.

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Annoying fluff, ugly models, TFH attitude. I hate them more than any other Chapter. I'd rather play Ultramarines.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Old JotWW PTSD...

....24 inch 4+ deny the witch bubble...

...clearly had best MEQ squad in the game with extra cc weapons and dual discounted special weapons....

I can see why some people fostered a dislike for them.

Besides their old cheese of choice, their fluff really is bit copy/paste Scandinavian mythology/ iconography, as well as being a bit silly at times (and not silly in a fun way, like orks can pull off).

Their inherent theme aside, I have no problems with the models themselves....besides them having Santa as a LoW choice.
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Yeah, it didn't help that for a while they were very clearly "Space Marines +1", and for several years were a bandwagon power-train, with tons of "counts-as", and where most SW armies looked and played far more like Iron Warriors armies than anything else.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




JAWS OF THE WORLD WOLF?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

 Toofast wrote:
Have you seen Logan Clause? Have you read the fluff for murderfang (or just the chapters fluff in general)? I play space wolves and think they're ridiculous and the fluff reads like something that was written by a 30 year old neckbeard living in grandma's basement and wearing one of those t shirts with wolves howling at the moon printed on the front. I could've written better background for an army in middle school.


I call BS. If you could write better than do so. Write us a 3 page narrative that is exciting, not over the top, and really brings home the feel of space wolves in 40K. Hell, how about just rewriting Murderfangs fluff entry? Make us love him. Now tell us how easy it was. The guys who write this stuff, only have so much room to work with on a page. As such important details for writing a complete narrative often get truncated, or they have to use splash phrases to grab your attention as quickly as possible before you turn the page and talk about something completely different. The time lines events are usually only 4 to 6 sentences long that the fanboy community takes as the be all end all of what happened. And they are kind of forced to because that is all that will ever be written on the subject.

The truth is, all GW fiction suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen. There have been numerous authors over the last 20 years. Some good, some not so good. As such you get a mixed bag sort of thing. Also considering there is no official timeline or even structure to the 40K universe, many authors just pick what they want to happen when they want it to happen using the background of 40K as a guideline instead of any hard written formula.

Another thing to consider is age. I don't know how old Toofast is but I can promise you that unless your 12 your not GW target audience. GW novels are not written for someone like me. 41, college educated. They just aren't. Its not called bolter porn for nothing. No, they are targeting our children ages 10 - 16 in hopes that we adults will splurge our hard earned income on plastic toys. They make the world and feats larger than life, they give them names that sound "Cool". My son has no problems with anything written in any codex. He loves the idea of Murderfang and all the silliness that goes with it. But then again, he thinks it would be cool to have an electric yellow rat as a pet too.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

I have quite a few reasons as to why I despise the Space Wolves:

1. They used to be respectable - Sure there were some Wolf references but they were mostly Space Vikings. Now look at the following; they're a complete joke.

Everything with Wolf in the name from their codex -
Spoiler:
Wolf Claws, Thunderwolf mount, Wolf Standard, Fang Sword of the Ice Wolf, Saga of the Wolfkin, Blessings of the Iron Wolf, Wolf Lord, Wolf Guard Battle Leader, Fury of the Wolf spirits, Jaws of the Wolf World, Wolf Priest, Canis Wolfborn, Harald Deathwolf, Wolf Guard, Wolf Guard Terminators, Lone Wolf, Wolf Scouts, Fenrisian Wolf Pack, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Stormwolf.


Everything with names related to wolves in their codex -
Spoiler:
Bite of Fenris, Wulfen Stone, Blood Claws, Skyclaw Assault Squad, Swiftclaw Biker Squad, Long Fangs pack, Stormfang gunship.


2. They spoke out against Psykers at the Council of Nikaea and yet use the warp all the time, believing that their Rune Priests use some magic doo-doo from Fenris instead. Hypocrites.

3. They're idiots. Most of them forego the use of their helmets in battle. Space Marines have redundancies such as two hearts, for everything.... everything apart from their brains, the most valuable organ and yet most of them choose not to protect them.

4. They destroy knowledge. Sure, they can be good at their jobs, destroying other Legions and Xenos but the destruction and loss of knowledge is unforgivable. They burned and obliterated libraries they came across, including the expansive libraries of Prospero.

5. They never look at the bigger picture. For example - the Inquisition wanted to round up and sterilize and mind-wipe any humans on Armageddon in case of corruption. The Space Wolves took umbrage at that and fought with the Grey Knights, destroying multiple Grey Knight Ships (and one capital ship) and some Inquisition ships. All in order to allow some ships full of potentially corrupted humans to escape. Every world those survivors traveled to was subjected to Exterminatus and cost the Inquisition months to track down every transport. The stupid wolves caused untold deaths and significant damage to allied forces whereas if they had just accepted the Inquisition's decree... no one would have died. Since then, they're acting like children and are seeking to frustrate the Inquisition's plans at every opportunity.

6. They nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons. I know Horus was mostly responsible for that but I still direct some of my ire towards the Space Wolves. They didn't even have the decency to warn the Thousand Sons; they could have simply sent a message, "We've been ordered to sanction you. Surrender now or die." They chose to instead attack without warning and offer no quarter for their supposed brother marines. Even Marines who had been defeated in combat were slaughtered by the wolves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 22:38:04


   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I used to like them and was on the cusp of starting an army of them but then this...
Spoiler:

Spoiler:



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





as for writing the space wolves to be intreasting. Maybe I;ll take that challange up. even the worst aspects of the codex can be redeemed with a bit of effort. hell the latest GK codex almost managed to make Dragio an intreasting somewhat tragic figure.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Jayden63 wrote:
 Toofast wrote:
Have you seen Logan Clause? Have you read the fluff for murderfang (or just the chapters fluff in general)? I play space wolves and think they're ridiculous and the fluff reads like something that was written by a 30 year old neckbeard living in grandma's basement and wearing one of those t shirts with wolves howling at the moon printed on the front. I could've written better background for an army in middle school.


I call BS. If you could write better than do so. Write us a 3 page narrative that is exciting, not over the top, and really brings home the feel of space wolves in 40K. Hell, how about just rewriting Murderfangs fluff entry? Make us love him. Now tell us how easy it was. The guys who write this stuff, only have so much room to work with on a page. As such important details for writing a complete narrative often get truncated, or they have to use splash phrases to grab your attention as quickly as possible before you turn the page and talk about something completely different. The time lines events are usually only 4 to 6 sentences long that the fanboy community takes as the be all end all of what happened. And they are kind of forced to because that is all that will ever be written on the subject.

The truth is, all GW fiction suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen. There have been numerous authors over the last 20 years. Some good, some not so good. As such you get a mixed bag sort of thing. Also considering there is no official timeline or even structure to the 40K universe, many authors just pick what they want to happen when they want it to happen using the background of 40K as a guideline instead of any hard written formula.

Another thing to consider is age. I don't know how old Toofast is but I can promise you that unless your 12 your not GW target audience. GW novels are not written for someone like me. 41, college educated. They just aren't. Its not called bolter porn for nothing. No, they are targeting our children ages 10 - 16 in hopes that we adults will splurge our hard earned income on plastic toys. They make the world and feats larger than life, they give them names that sound "Cool". My son has no problems with anything written in any codex. He loves the idea of Murderfang and all the silliness that goes with it. But then again, he thinks it would be cool to have an electric yellow rat as a pet too.


I have better things to do with my time. It isn't my job to fix their mistakes. They're the ones being paid to write this stuff and charging the customers insane amount for it. I'm 26 years old, and also happen to have a hell of a lot more disposable income than the vast majority of 10-16 year olds, even including what family buys for their birthdays, xmas etc. If the target audience is 10-16 year olds, why are the prices so high? You can't brand yourself as a luxury item and then say youre targeting kids. There's a reason Rolex and Ferrari have a target audience a bit older. The more expensive your product is relative to the competitors in your market, the less likely you are to dominate the 10-16 age group where (usually) frugal parents are the ones doing the spending. If my parents saw WMH was half the price of 40k and they were the ones supporting my hobby, they would do their best to steer me away from 40k. Perhaps if GW targeted an age group that could actually afford their products they wouldn't be in the financial position they're in right now.
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 Jayden63 wrote:
 Toofast wrote:
Have you seen Logan Clause? Have you read the fluff for murderfang (or just the chapters fluff in general)? I play space wolves and think they're ridiculous and the fluff reads like something that was written by a 30 year old neckbeard living in grandma's basement and wearing one of those t shirts with wolves howling at the moon printed on the front. I could've written better background for an army in middle school.


I call BS. If you could write better than do so. Write us a 3 page narrative that is exciting, not over the top, and really brings home the feel of space wolves in 40K. Hell, how about just rewriting Murderfangs fluff entry? Make us love him. Now tell us how easy it was. The guys who write this stuff, only have so much room to work with on a page. As such important details for writing a complete narrative often get truncated, or they have to use splash phrases to grab your attention as quickly as possible before you turn the page and talk about something completely different. The time lines events are usually only 4 to 6 sentences long that the fanboy community takes as the be all end all of what happened. And they are kind of forced to because that is all that will ever be written on the subject.

The truth is, all GW fiction suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen. There have been numerous authors over the last 20 years. Some good, some not so good. As such you get a mixed bag sort of thing. Also considering there is no official timeline or even structure to the 40K universe, many authors just pick what they want to happen when they want it to happen using the background of 40K as a guideline instead of any hard written formula.
GW has managed better writing before, and has managed it with other factions. They have a dedicated background controller on payroll.

Ultimately, to simply call someone out and say "well you do it better" is somewhat absurd. For one, they're not being paid to do so in a professional capacity for mass publication. You don't need to be an expert writer to call out bad writing, just as I don't need to be an expert mechanic to call out a crappy car. Some things are simply self-evident.



Another thing to consider is age. I don't know how old Toofast is but I can promise you that unless your 12 your not GW target audience. GW novels are not written for someone like me. 41, college educated. They just aren't. Its not called bolter porn for nothing. No, they are targeting our children ages 10 - 16 in hopes that we adults will splurge our hard earned income on plastic toys. They make the world and feats larger than life, they give them names that sound "Cool". My son has no problems with anything written in any codex. He loves the idea of Murderfang and all the silliness that goes with it. But then again, he thinks it would be cool to have an electric yellow rat as a pet too.
I think I can count, on one hand, the number of twelve year olds that actually bought and played, and I think only one or two that did it without a parent already being into 40k. Almost everyone I can think of that plays is college aged or older. When I'm in a game store, it's not 12 and 14 year olds, it's 19, 22, and 26 or 30 year olds looking at and playing stuff. That's been a pretty consistent experience across half a dozen different major cities and metro areas.

40k is a universe of murderous psychopaths, rape demons, genocide, and other nasty things. If GW's target market really is 12 year olds, there's something wrong here. Even putting the setting aside, that target market simply does not have the income to really get into this hobby. A once-every-few-years chunk for a $350 gaming system and a once-in-a-while $50 for a video game is one thing, $50 for a box of 5 unpainted, unassembled plastic army men, or $120 for a big plastic demon thingy that also needs to be build & painted, simply isn't going to fly.

If they are targeting 12 year old kids, that would explain why GW's been on a financial downslope for the last decade.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Otto Weston wrote:
6. They nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons. I know Horus was mostly responsible for that but I still direct some of my ire towards the Space Wolves. They didn't even have the decency to warn the Thousand Sons; they could have simply sent a message, "We've been ordered to sanction you. Surrender now or die." They chose to instead attack without warning and offer no quarter for their supposed brother marines. Even Marines who had been defeated in combat were slaughtered by the wolves.


To be fair Russ did try to warn them, and it was heeded, but perhaps that is just a Horus Heresy thing.

Will admit I mainly hate them due to the bias that my favorite legion is the Thousand Sons. As to those that think they have awful fluff I don't disagree. Modern fluff made my reading of the Ragnar series very shocking... Well that and William King is one of if not my favorite Black Library writer.
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

 arinnoor wrote:
 Otto Weston wrote:
6. They nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons. I know Horus was mostly responsible for that but I still direct some of my ire towards the Space Wolves. They didn't even have the decency to warn the Thousand Sons; they could have simply sent a message, "We've been ordered to sanction you. Surrender now or die." They chose to instead attack without warning and offer no quarter for their supposed brother marines. Even Marines who had been defeated in combat were slaughtered by the wolves.


To be fair Russ did try to warn them, and it was heeded, but perhaps that is just a Horus Heresy thing.

Will admit I mainly hate them due to the bias that my favorite legion is the Thousand Sons. As to those that think they have awful fluff I don't disagree. Modern fluff made my reading of the Ragnar series very shocking... Well that and William King is one of if not my favorite Black Library writer.


Russ tried to warn them by talking to one of his Remembrancers who he thought was a Thousand Sons sleeper spy (who turned out to not be a Thousand Sons spy)........ I don't know why Russ didn't try warning him normally when he was in orbit though. Fact of the matter is, the warning never actually made it to the Thousand Sons because Russ didn't choose a smart way to deliver it.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Granted its been some time since I read it, but I thought that the message was at least partially received as Russ warned Magnus to get the civilians off Prospero and that was done.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





The Beach

The current models are stupid - wolfy wolf wolf wolf, wolf chariots, wolf cavalry, flying clown shoes with freeze rays.

Their fluff is stupid - "We break all the rules because we're cool. Space Marines can't get drunk? Not us. We're Space Wolves. Can't have sex because you start becoming a Space Marine at age 8? Not us! We're Space Wolves."



Any other sily questions?


Oh. And this guy. William Murderfang Murderfang Murderfang.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 04:27:17


Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: Tutorial, Posing, Conversions and other madness. The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy

The Ultimate Badasses: Colonial Marines 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I'll be honest. It's going to be a long time getting over 5th ed. And also, TWC being better than anything in the BA codex by a mile.
   
Made in au
Death-Dealing Devastator





Erebor

Thanks for all the detailed responses! Yeah, I'm understanding it now. I was kinda thinking that it couldn't be that bad - all the Wolves, but then this... Just way too much.
So does anyone actually really like all this over the top Wolfy Wolf? Or does GW just think "Screw you all, we can't think of anything else."
By the way I'm sick of hearing the word Wolf, I hate it when words are overused, especially cool ones.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I used to like them and was on the cusp of starting an army of them but then this...
Spoiler:

Spoiler:


The Emperor's Redemption: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/586715.page

Emperor's Redemption: 590 points and very slowly counting 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Am I alone in thinking King Santa of the Space Woofs is precisely the sort of thing that represents 40k at it's best?

Grimdark without goofy excess is just boring.
   
Made in au
Death-Dealing Devastator





Erebor

Whilst I do agree with you, I don't 100% percent. Goofy yes, but I dont like the excess. Like Skulls for the Skull throne made of Skulls that are made of Skulls. It overdoes it and loses its magic. I dont HATE it, but I dont love excess.
I hope that makes sense?

The Emperor's Redemption: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/586715.page

Emperor's Redemption: 590 points and very slowly counting 
   
Made in au
Terminator with Assault Cannon






brisbane, australia

 Da Ork Killa wrote:
Whilst I do agree with you, I don't 100% percent. Goofy yes, but I dont like the excess. Like Skulls for the Skull throne made of Skulls that are made of Skulls. It overdoes it and loses its magic. I dont HATE it, but I dont love excess.
I hope that makes sense?

Now you understand my disposition about the wolves.

*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* 
   
Made in nz
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




New Zealand

The liberties SW fiction writers take with the established fluff to make the SW `extra-marines` is tiresome. Some examples include

They brew a drink strong enough to combat Astartes poison immunity.
They can induct mid-teen boys because only mainstream chapters need to get em young. Fenrisians are just that badass.
Their bolters and armour are superior to any found elsewhere in the galaxy.
Werewolves are `totally not mutants` and runepriests `totally arent psykers`.

The idea is great, vikings and stuff. Somehow along the line GW totally screwed it up.

5000
 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

I can take or leave the goofiness of Wolfy McWolfwolf and Murderwolf with Murderclaws from MurderAllTheThings. Yes, it's very silly, bordering on outright stupid... but I can overlook that.

Though, I will point out that Fenris, as a planet, simply doesn't work for a Chapter the size of the Space Wolves. It simply doesn't have the population to support a Chapter that large.

What bothers me most about how the Space Wolves are presented is not that they are the "coolest guys in the room", it is that the only way they are made that is at the detriment of every other faction in the Imperium.

If it's the Sisters? The Space Wolves have to show them how to purge heretics.

If it's the IG? The Space Wolves have to show the Commissars how to maintain order and the Lord Generals how to plan strategy.

If it's the Navy? The Space Wolves have to show them how to launch assault boats against an enemy ship.

If it's the Inquisition? The Space Wolves not only have to deny their Emperor-granted authority, but also fight them in space and on the ground, supposedly suffering significant casualties in so doing... but this never, in any way, negatively impacts the Space Wolves.

Rogue Traders? Space Wolves show them how to navigate the Warp. Probably by smell.

The Adeptus Mechanicus? The Space Wolves show them how to fix a Lightning Strike Fighter through percussive maintenance.

The Ecclesiarchy? The Space Wolves refuse the Imperial Creed... but instead appear to worship the "natural forces" of Fenris. This would make them both heretics and pagan idolaters. They also refuse to allow the Ecclesiarchy to investigate the various tribes of Fenris for Chaos corruption... even though the Thousand Sons landed nearly their entire strength and millions of cultists on Fenris. If I were the Space Wolves (and not already practicing pagan idolatry), I'd be watching the tribes real close to make sure they weren't worshipping some weird bird-man thing somewhere.

The Space Wolves are written badly because the writers for their fluff don't seem to understand that the Space Wolves can be awesome without crapping on the rest of the Imperium.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: