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MarsNZ wrote:

They can induct mid-teen boys because only mainstream chapters need to get em young. Fenrisians are just that badass.

Recruiting mid-teens is proably reasonably common. Any SM chapter whose recruitment policy is "take a feral death world, stand back, and watch for promising canidates" proably is going to recruit people around the age of 12-14. which is about the age you'd come to adulthood in those socities and be allowed to join the hunters and warriors.

Not true hate so much as envy....

On a serious note though. Do wolves attract any more hate than Tau? Granted that hate is for different reasons. Regarding wolfiness, I'm quite fond of the inclusion of actual furred wolves in the army. The sigils and pelts look great too. Logan Claus takes it too far...though I reserve as much disdain for the Mcmurderfang model for its silly looking head, and the flying box that is the stormwuff.

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Not true hate so much as envy....

On a serious note though. Do wolves attract any more hate than Tau? Granted that hate is for different reasons. Regarding wolfiness, I'm quite fond of the inclusion of actual furred wolves in the army. The sigils and pelts look great too. Logan Claus takes it too far...though I reserve as much disdain for the Mcmurderfang model for its silly looking head, and the flying box that is the stormwuff.

Space Wolves (and Grey Knights) are the two most ridiculous armies in 40k so I should hope that they are hated more than some little blue me with hooves.

Hard to pass judgment where pretty much anything in the stories is just over the top.

It just seems like a strongly unhealthy obsession with all things wolf and fang it feels like you are being beaten over the head with it.
Like they are trying to tie into the werewolf lore and do a "me too!!!".
Glad they did not get into the moon of Fenris or something silly.

It also begs the question of how these guys are any different from Khorn Berserkers: they have more fun??

They are like the "bad boys" of the imperium, "You like us cuz we break all the rulz!" like they are hoping to take away your girlfriend by showing off and being more manly than all the other armies.

You know when you come across someone that seems to be "trying to please too hard" it gives you that squeamish feeling and you try to back away.
Yeah, that is the feeling I get with how these guys are presented.

 Vaktathi wrote:
40k is a universe of murderous psychopaths, rape demons, genocide, and other nasty things. If GW's target market really is 12 year olds, there's something wrong here.

Could be that they're targeting teens who think all that is kewl and badazz and, as per your implication, grown up. Folk here might say "you've got to appreciate the goofiness of Logan Claus"; but the thing is, I don't think it was intended to sell because of it's goofiness. Not even through 'liking it ironically'. The main appeal of the model itself (disregarding the inevitable power stats attached to it) is supposed to be the unfeigned appreciation of an enormous manly berzerker clad in huge metal slabs while mushing his hover-sled husky team into a tank battle.

If people think that's ridiculous, over the top, and trying too hard, I don't think it's because those people are miseries, or haterz, or jelly. I think it's because their facial hair has grown in. Mazel tov!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niv-mizzet wrote:
I hate space wolves only because every "that guy" I've ever run into started as a space wolf player. \o.o/

I hear that. There was this guy in our gaming group for a while, mostly because he was one of the fellow vets kicked out of the GW store. Aggressive, argumentative, confrontational, always 'right'. Couldn't stop banging on about the stats on his Space Wolves, even in Epic where that counts for far less.

I think its also important to point out to the OP that the Wolves are loved just as much as hated. If you look at any "Whats your favorite faction poll?" here on Dakka the wolves almost always are in the top 3. Its just that you read so much more hate posts about it because its easy to post about something you hate and get a whole bunch of people chiming in.

Any thread that is on a positive note is a short thread, any thread that is about a negative goes on for pages and pages.

SGTPozy wrote:
Space Wolves (and Grey Knights) are the two most ridiculous armies in 40k so I should hope that they are hated more than some little blue me with hooves.

I'll send Logan around to your house with his jingle bells to change your mind!

SGTPozy wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Not true hate so much as envy....

On a serious note though. Do wolves attract any more hate than Tau? Granted that hate is for different reasons. Regarding wolfiness, I'm quite fond of the inclusion of actual furred wolves in the army. The sigils and pelts look great too. Logan Claus takes it too far...though I reserve as much disdain for the Mcmurderfang model for its silly looking head, and the flying box that is the stormwuff.

Space Wolves (and Grey Knights) are the two most ridiculous armies in 40k so I should hope that they are hated more than some little blue me with hooves.

I hate SW and GK far more than Tau, but I hate the Ritpide more than any individual unit in those other lists.

According to ADB over at bnc, they're supposed to be your college party bros. Dumb as 2 planks hitting a snail.
I think they're more run to the principal type.
They can do everything.. hang on i've got a axe here.. wait i also have a lascannon. Psychic power... haha. eat wolf mcwolf, that doesn't work either.

A bit like what thorpe is trying to do with the raven's now. Jet pack's, sneaky stuff, well hard up close.

Don't know about anyone else but I hate them because they are the eternal foe of two of my favourite Legions and I hate fighting Drop Pod Grey Hunter spam.

Honestly I like the overly done Wolfy McFang Claw Riding a Wolf with a Wolf Claw and a pack of wolves at his side. The reason being is its just silly and just so hard to take seriously. In the case of a lot of the Space Marine fluff/attitude it just comes across as being so stiff, heroic, and "good guy" like. The Space Wolves with their overly done wolf theme is just ridiculous and breaks up the seriousness and makes it fun. Kinda makes taking the fluff as anything other than a thematic parody difficult with guy riding a giant wolf with wolf claws and draped in wolf pelts as a wolf head space ship drops off wolf guard and papa wolf is being pulled on his hover sled by wolves. The biggest problem with things like Ultramarines is that they are entirely uptight and by the book Heros (but not overly done) that it makes it hard to find any hunor or play and instead just takes things towards the super serious.

People can complain about the models like Stormrider, but until your codex doesn't have one of these...



or one of these...



or this



You really have no high ground to stand on. What makes an model ugly is completely subjective.

There's a difference between a model being ugly, and a model being a terrible concept in the first place.

There's also a difference between a model being bad and having said models be one of the highlight unique models of the army.

Finally, just because one dislikes model X, doesn't mean they can't also dislike model Y.

Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Not true hate so much as envy....

On a serious note though. Do wolves attract any more hate than Tau? Granted that hate is for different reasons. Regarding wolfiness, I'm quite fond of the inclusion of actual furred wolves in the army. The sigils and pelts look great too. Logan Claus takes it too far...though I reserve as much disdain for the Mcmurderfang model for its silly looking head, and the flying box that is the stormwuff.

Space Wolves (and Grey Knights) are the two most ridiculous armies in 40k so I should hope that they are hated more than some little blue me with hooves.

I hate SW and GK far more than Tau, but I hate the Ritpide more than any individual unit in those other lists.

Personally, I hate the Riptide the same as TWC and the Dreadknight as all three are way OP/broken.

The Riptide however from a model/concept standpoint is actually pretty solid and fits right in there with the Tau theme without going totally overboard. It's rules may need some work, but the model and concept itself aren't bad.

30k space wolves are great. great fluff, some great fiction out there. emperor's executioners all that sort of thing.

40k space wolves are really really naff, cheesy, wolf guys riding wolves, desperate lack of imagination stuff.

it's a kids army i guess. lots of SUPER AWESOME WOLF with no subtlety.

that's just my take of course. others may disagree!

I find this entire conversation polarizing.

One thing I've come away from this with though, is now I almost kinda wanna see some super stupid silly crap in other codexes to balance it out and put an even finer point on how over the top the wolves are.

Could I get a chaplain in my BA possibly riding members of the Death Company into battle? Maybe Dante could fly around the table with one foot each planted on the back of two Sanguinary Guard? He'd have a little rope tied to each one to rein them in ala Dune wormriding. But you know, with wings. Ooo, maybe a Librarian Dreadnought could be Mephistons personal walking chariot for double the psychic prowess. Maybe my Baal Predator could actually just shoot death masks to spread that Fear rule around for "reasons." I'd put little wings on my bike squads too, but you know... that might be a little OP. *giggle*

I'm sorry, with all the wolfy mcwolfington crap now I'm starting to just imagine super stupid crap for my other armies. My imagination just goes straight overboard.

 Vaktathi wrote:
There's a difference between a model being ugly, and a model being a terrible concept in the first place.

Yep. It's nothing to do with one model. The Centurions are awful, sure. So is the Stormguppy. But nowhere on the level of having guys who weigh 1,000 pounds riding on the back of giant wolves, or a hover-sleigh being pulled by giant wolves.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

One thing I've come away from this with though, is now I almost kinda wanna see some super stupid silly crap in other codexes to balance it out and put an even finer point on how over the top the wolves are.

I was hoping the Blood Angels would get a hover-coffin with giant bats. Or a tank with a huge chalice on top of it.

I mean, I know that horrible models didn't start with Santa Logan. I mean, we've had the Giant Pipe Organ Missile Tank for years. But one terrible model should be a lesson. Not a justification for more terrible models.

I think what also makes it interesting is the SW's are the poster child for furries in science fiction.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Maybe Dante could fly around the table with one foot each planted on the back of two Sanguinary Guard? He'd have a little rope tied to each one to rein them in ala Dune wormriding. But you know, with wings.

You sir, win the interwebz today.
There's theme and then there's being too on the nose.
For example, if I drew a blue painting of a crying face, people would know it's sad. But there's no art, imagination or thought put into it. It's the low hanging fruit of the imagination.
Spacewolves used to be cool, but over the years the design team have chosen the low hanging, easy to reach ideas instead of thinking.
A -"Hey, they're space wolves, right? Well...maybe they could like, right giant wolves or something."
B - "Dude, yeah, totally. Wolves."
A - "And they, like transform into wolves!"
(random intern walks in.)
"Sirs? Wouldn't that mean they're riding their former brothers into battle?"
(A and B look at each other.)
A - Dude, you don't get it. Wolves man. Wolves!
B - What does he know? Wolves. With Wolf claws.
A - Because Wolves are cool.
B - Wolf. Wolf.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Maybe Dante could fly around the table with one foot each planted on the back of two Sanguinary Guard? He'd have a little rope tied to each one to rein them in ala Dune wormriding. But you know, with wings.

You sir, win the interwebz today.
There's theme and then there's being too on the nose.
For example, if I drew a blue painting of a crying face, people would know it's sad. But there's no art, imagination or thought put into it. It's the low hanging fruit of the imagination.
Spacewolves used to be cool, but over the years the design team have chosen the low hanging, easy to reach ideas instead of thinking.
A -"Hey, they're space wolves, right? Well...maybe they could like, right giant wolves or something."
B - "Dude, yeah, totally. Wolves."
A - "And they, like transform into wolves!"
(random intern walks in.)
"Sirs? Wouldn't that mean they're riding their former brothers into battle?"
(A and B look at each other.)
A - Dude, you don't get it. Wolves man. Wolves!
B - What does he know? Wolves. With Wolf claws.
A - Because Wolves are cool.
B - Wolf. Wolf.

You might want to delete this post. You don't want GeeDubs to know you were eavesdropping back during the writing of the 5th. ed SW codex.