Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 CShaffer wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I think "mostly WYSIWIG" is important.

If you have one model that you want to play with a different weapon, out a marker on it, and go for it (if it's a hero, it's fine as is). But if all 60 of your models are impossible to tell who has what, I would certainly have a problem.

What if for instance an entire squad was using different weapon load outs but they were all the same load out? As per my earlier example.

I wouldn't much care with one squad. But if you have 10 squads that all have different loadouts, the problem becomes, I won't remember what's what.

I think it is important because it saves having to remember what's what. 40K games can take a long time and it's not always easy to remember what was explained during setup.

When someone uses non-GW bits or models in a game of WH40K I again think it helps if stuff looks like what it's meant to be. For example, if a model is supposed to have a flamer, at least make sure its weapon looks like a flamethrower.

Generally speaking, I prefer WYSIWYG for most things. I don't mind the occasional "crap, I can't find my 4th meltagun dude, so this flamer guy is also a meltagun" as I'm guilty of that, too. I'm also for more forgiving when it comes to characters models. If you have a random assortment of sergeant models with different weapons, but you want to field all of them as just bolt pistol and power sword, I'm fine with that. Yes, it is a visual game, but there is a reason why we write our lists down, and some of us don't have the best of eyesight anyway and often just ask what a model has rather than hunch over and squint at it.

If for any reason you do end up with 2 identical squads wanting to rock different loadouts in a friendly game it can be useful to have some sort of flag to move around with them (saying Las Cannon Squad or whatever)

it makes it easier for your opponent to see and remember which is which without any problems (and so makes it much more likely they'll agree to play)

It's also impossible to be completely WYSIWYG with some units. Giant Chaos spawn for example don't exist as models.

I've only ever played friendly games and nobody has ever asked to see my list (which is kind of weird now that I think about it, maybe they just know the round about price of things lol) but from what I'm taking here is that as long as I'm like "Yo Bro, these guys are this" At the start of the game everybody is cool?

To a degree WYSIWYG is great. For me personally im trying very hard to get my army based and WYSIWYG, but for example, Ork Kanz, I want to try out all 6 with Grottblastas, flamers, shootas, so minimal mods like that would be fine, but if everything is different I would say no.

WYSIWYG is the rule, proxying the exception. I'm always cool with some proxying; my last game someone had a proxy Belial, but the model had all the same equipment, so even if during the game the GW staff said I could choose whether it was Belial or not I zero problems with it.

If someone brings a ton of different stuff that isn't WYSIWYG and isn't easy to keep track of, I'm gonna say no.

 DarkLink wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

So?

I mean, no problems if you actually can't afford it, but by no means is it impossible to have a wysiwyg devestator squad just because a single box only has one of each gun.

well yeah it's great when you're able to do that, but sometimes it's just not pratical. and if someone can't afford to buy 4 boxes of devestators or whatever just so he can have the right parts...

BrianDavion wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

So?

I mean, no problems if you actually can't afford it, but by no means is it impossible to have a wysiwyg devestator squad just because a single box only has one of each gun.

well yeah it's great when you're able to do that, but sometimes it's just not pratical. and if someone can't afford to buy 4 boxes of devestators or whatever just so he can have the right parts...

Ooooooor scavenge pieces from a bitz box, or buy lascannons separately from GW or FW. That's how I have my autocannon Havocs.

Is it so hard to just pay the points for the models you have?

nareik wrote:
Is it so hard to just pay the points for the models you have?

Is it so hard to not require people to go scrounging for bits just so their devastators can have all Las cannons or their bikers can have real melta guns mounted to the front?

I'd be all for WYSIWYG if the process wasn't:

A. Expensive in terms of finding and buying extra bits since GW is incapable of providing us with enough pieces to actually make a fully equipped squad from the sprue (no, $2 for a but is not cheap).

B. Tedious in terms of requiring every model to be magnetized or bought and painted in duplicate to have weapon choice

C. Somewhat unnecessary considering I can't even tell the difference between plasma, melta, and flamer without forcing people to adopt generic paint schemes. Forget army-specific weapons, I don't even know what they do, let alone look like.

If you can easily tell me a squad's specific weapon loadout, including who has a flamer, without making mistakes, I'll be happy. I always ask anyway since I don't care to discern model details for info I can get verbally.

I like WYSIWYG, but if my opponent doesn't stick to it that's fine. I do prefer my models to be WYSIWYG, both to make my opponent's life easier and to remind myself of what I have paid for, and for me this goes as far as a Crux Terminatus shoulder pad to mark out my Veteran Sergeants for my Blood Angels.

I want to be all relaxed and say "no biggy", but I've lost games where I forgot that the vendetta was really a vulture, or that Lysander was really Primarch Vulcan... so if you mean "partial proxies", then yeah, don't make me keep track of your army...

What's even more difficult is to remember that the Nob with a big choppa is really a PowerKlaw... its what you expect, where you expect it... yet its really got a weapon that radically changes its effect on the battlefield... I've been burned too many times by hidden weapon upgrades (flamer is really a melta).

So yeah, I'm a stickler... WYSIWYG is enforced when I play. It's not my job to keep track of your army.

AS long as its easy to tell who is who and what is what I alwayds defer to "cool" looking over perfect WSIWYG.

and as mentioned before as long as its consistent... who cares

It's good because it saves on confusion and keeps the game moving fast. A few units off here and there to try out new things, but too much and it becomes a bother.

As for modelling to look cool, well if you want to keep using swords as claws you're probably better actually making them with claws or using them with swords eventually. Cause you can get away with it a few times but after that if you want to do it for the rule of cool then actually show you mean it by playing them that way instead of trying to get the best from both.

I would prefer to have 100% WYSIWYG.

If you want to try out a new unit before you buy it, sure!

If you are consistent (all plasma guns are melta guns), sure!

If you are a hot chick, sure!

Again, I'm a giver.

I don't particularly mind.

Frankly, about 99% of the time I can't see/recognise what weapons models are holding anyway, so whether those weapons are accurate is largely irrelevant to me.

And, if I really need to know who has what, I'll just ask my opponent before I move.

The only thing that bothers me on a visual front is when characters aren't easily distinguishable from their squads.

Necron non-named characters are impossible to WYSIWYG out the box without kitbashing or extensive conversion work since they don't really come with much alternate bits and the vast majoroty of their optional gear has no official bit at all.

 Galorian wrote:
Necron non-named characters are impossible to WYSIWYG out the box without kitbashing or extensive conversion work since they don't really come with much alternate bits and the vast majoroty of their optional gear has no official bit at all.

Honestly, I would never ask that a character would be WISIWIG.

Yeh but average soldiers... it makes sense that they are WYSIWYG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeh but average soldiers... it makes sense that they are WYSIWYG.

I like WYSIWYG personally, but I also understand if people wanna try something different out or modeled things then changed their points cost up due to something later. As long as I am told ahead of time or we can mark the unit in some way during the game, I'm okay with it being a little different. I do like it when they actually have a model though. No cardboard cutouts for me. If everything is fully WYSIWYG though, you get major cool points in my book.

I draw the line at people using models from other games though unless they actually seem to fit in well. I've seen really well modeled figures used as IG/AM that fit in a game just fine.

In a tournament setting it's very important up to grenades.
We have an RTT every two months and players comply with this.

With friends, anything goes. I'd rather test rules with garage stuff than buy a model and discover it is rubbish in TT.

Now, a real tourney... the more WYSIWYG, the better.