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Asking for what ya'll think.

Due to preference (I like to model on rule of cool) what does everybody think on WYSIWYG.

For instance I have a squad of chosen that I model to gave all lighting claws, if due to reason I want to run them as power swords for said game would people have a problem with that?
Just trying to get a feel for it.
I'd like to make "fluffy" models that humor me but I can make competitive if need be.

I think "mostly WYSIWIG" is important.

If you have one model that you want to play with a different weapon, out a marker on it, and go for it (if it's a hero, it's fine as is). But if all 60 of your models are impossible to tell who has what, I would certainly have a problem.

 Talys wrote:
I think "mostly WYSIWIG" is important.

If you have one model that you want to play with a different weapon, out a marker on it, and go for it (if it's a hero, it's fine as is). But if all 60 of your models are impossible to tell who has what, I would certainly have a problem.

What if for instance an entire squad was using different weapon load outs but they were all the same load out? As per my earlier example.

If your opponent is okay with it then roll with it. Pretty common to proxy a few models before buying them or changing their equipment. No harm in it.

Rule of cool comes first. Have a chaos space marine with that pointing powerfist only for looks? No worries. Moddeled your bikes without guns because it looks better? For sure!
"This guy has a flamer but is actually holding a melta" nope, I don't really dig that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CShaffer wrote:
Asking for what ya'll think.

Due to preference (I like to model on rule of cool) what does everybody think on WYSIWYG.

For instance I have a squad of chosen that I model to gave all lighting claws, if due to reason I want to run them as power swords for said game would people have a problem with that?
Just trying to get a feel for it.
I'd like to make "fluffy" models that humor me but I can make competitive if need be.

I wouldn't mind but prefer you keep the load outs as they look like.

I definitely prefer WYSIWYG for my models, but I'm pretty lenient when it comes to my opponent. My local play group has one guy (a 17-year-old) who plays Orks and uses so many proxies it is like a bad joke. He uses land raiders as battlewagons and other assorted vehicles as trukks (although they are modified and I think orks can treat those as "looted" or something), as well as using any 40mm base models (DV termies, etc.) for his Meganobz. Our TO for the local tournaments lets him play, but he told me that he will stop the guy as soon as someone complains about him and his crazy proxies. I don't mind playing him as he's a pretty cool guy and he probably can't afford to buy the correct models (he borrows the land raiders from his brother, I think). To get back on topic, I consider it polite to be WYSIWYG with all your models, but unless you go way overboard, I would still play against you with no problem as long as I understand what is proxied for what.

I'm fine with wavering a bit in small games, as there's not a lot to keep track of, but the more stuff on the board the less likely I am to remember "oh that one model carrying a plasma is actually carrying a melta". Also, be immediately up front about it, and make sure you're clear about all of it.

I'd probably be fine with counting all your claws as swords for a game, as long as ALL your claws count as swords. If you try and say "well these three squads are swords, and these two are claws, but they're all modeled with claws".... how about no.

And cannot stress hard enough that you point it out at the start of the game and have it written down. Had an opponent try to tell me mid-CC that the staff his psyker had was actually an axe, after I had made the decision to charge with termies. And of course didn't have a written copy of his list. Guess which staff didn't count as an axe that game?

As long as everything is consistent, I'm fine. (All the flamers are melta isn't a problem. This flamer here is a melta but this one over here is a grav gun is too confusing.)

In a friendly game, not at all. In a competitive setting it is required.

WYSIWYG is muy important to me. Do not enjoy playing scrap yard armies that don't have arms or heads on some models, let alone recognizable weapons.
I do respect that some people want to play the game before they have the time or money to put together an army, but the best games are against solid painted armies
(so while you're losing you have something to look at).
Tips; Don't show up at a golf course with a hockey stick and racket ball...

It's important, this game is visual, hence the mini's, and it's best that everything is represented accurately not simply to avoid game-related conflicts, but for the visual & imaginative aspects as well.

That said, some things don't need to be represented, or represented on every single model, stuff like grenades, etc.

I prefer my own models being WYSIWYG, but my opponents can be whatever they like. If there's a lot of counts as/proxying going on, I'll just ask my opponent the same question a bunch of times: 'What does that unit have again?'

I voted yes, because i want a visual indicator so i don't have to ask what stuff is - it just takes time.

Personally it has to be WYSIWYG if i'm going to play it - my only exception is if that particular weapon/equipment option isn't available yet; like myrmidon secutor volkite chargers or flare sheild projectors.

 SirDonlad wrote:
I voted yes, because i want a visual indicator so i don't have to ask what stuff is - it just takes time.

Personally it has to be WYSIWYG if i'm going to play it - my only exception is if that particular weapon/equipment option isn't available yet; like myrmidon secutor volkite chargers or flare sheild projectors.

I'm still trying to figure out how to model a displacer field onto a DA librarian....

Magnatize.

Provided it's a straight swap. I.e. all flamers are melta's (common enough) or 'the chainsword guy is actually a sergeant with a bolter, just need to pick him out'.

Things like 'this leman russ has a plasma turret, this one a lascannon and this one auto cannons' makes me very irate. Especially when the plasma gets fired twice in a turn from two different board corners.

However, most of us write our lists out, and keep them on a side table, so it's a case of picking up a piece of paper and going 'oh, right'.

sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

BrianDavion wrote:
sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

Devourers are stupid easy to make for cheap though. Deathspitters with regular devourer heads.glued on.

BrianDavion wrote:
sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

So?

I mean, no problems if you actually can't afford it, but by no means is it impossible to have a wysiwyg devestator squad just because a single box only has one of each gun.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I'm fine with wavering a bit in small games, as there's not a lot to keep track of, but the more stuff on the board the less likely I am to remember "oh that one model carrying a plasma is actually carrying a melta". Also, be immediately up front about it, and make sure you're clear about all of it.

I'd probably be fine with counting all your claws as swords for a game, as long as ALL your claws count as swords. If you try and say "well these three squads are swords, and these two are claws, but they're all modeled with claws".... how about no.

And cannot stress hard enough that you point it out at the start of the game and have it written down. Had an opponent try to tell me mid-CC that the staff his psyker had was actually an axe, after I had made the decision to charge with termies. And of course didn't have a written copy of his list. Guess which staff didn't count as an axe that game?

So the general agreement is that my chosen can be modeled with lighting claws, and as long as I'm like hey BTW all chosen are this lay out thats fine.(They are Cyphers buddys, wanted to give them some backstory. Was thinking some sort of formation like Claws of the Lion or something lol.)

I forgot to mention that it depends on how new the person is as well. If someone is brand new and trying to figure out their set up then I am normally very lenient as long as they and I can keep track of who has what.

 DarkLink wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
sometimes it's worth remembering that not everything CAN be modeled WYSIWYG. devestators simply don't come with the nesscary PARTS to give every Marine a lascanon if that's how you're wanting to deploy them. Hive Tyrants don't have the bits to be given twin linked deverors (sure there's Forge world but...) so sometimes it's a little hard. that said the best thing you can do is try to keep it simple. stuff like "well ALL flamers are metla guns in my army" etc.

So?

I mean, no problems if you actually can't afford it, but by no means is it impossible to have a wysiwyg devestator squad just because a single box only has one of each gun.

Shh, I was going to blow his mind with my impossible Devastator and Long Fang squads that have 4 identical weapons.

As to the op, frankly if you're going to use the Chosen as LC most of the time, that's probably okay to try power swords sometime. But if you're always going to use them as power weapons, then you're probably better off modeling them that way. I wouldn't say LCs are sufficient on their own to meet Rule of Cool. WYSIWYG is a very useful aid to keeping track of things, and I feel like you would need to go further than an arm swap to make it worth discarding. (Incidentally, the Dark Angels Legion were pretty obsessed with swords, so lightning claws aren't really as signature a weapon for them as they might be for the Night Lords or Raven Guard.)

Well as long as it's not too confusing I'm fine with it.
Two of my most frequent opponents play Tau and GK.

The GK player likes to switch between psycannons and psilencers. As long as he's got one heavy weapon in his 5-man terminator squad, I don't really care. I told him I'd appreciate it if the melee weapons are wysiwyg because it's too confusing with all the GK weapons otherwise.

The Tau player made the mistake of glueing his weapons to his crisis suits instead of magnetizing. I'm fine with him changing up support systems and gun loadouts as long as all the suits in 1 team have the same guns. It's easy to distinguish between a melta team and a plasmateam.

I only play in friendly games but I do find that it makes things more confusing. So, I prefer WYSIWYG but don't complain in the spirit of camaraderie. Some of the folks in my local do take it to an unfortunate degree, but "whadda gonna do?"

Can get around WYSIWYG if they have a list, but all too frequently (except tournaments usually), players show up without a list. Lazy. The burdens we bear
as dedicated hobbyists. Sending a note to the Emperor about arranging a more perfect world...

WYSIWYG and "Rule of Cool" aren't mutually exclusive. Far from it.

If you're looking at a model and you have no idea what it is or what it's armed with, then something has gone too far. Your opponent shouldn't be confused when they look at your army.

To a certain extent WYSIWYG is important, but I won't complain about proxying. I do ask that before the game starts but after deployment, any model that has wargear that isn't explicitly modeled on it or doesn't have wargear that is modeled on is pointed out and all of their wargear listed to avoid confusion; my wife played a game against space wolves where the wolf lord was an old Ragnar Blackmane model that had terminator armour, lightning claws, and a bunch of other stuff that came as quite a surprise when she assaulted him with her warriors. That's not cool.

Critical. I need to be able to tell what everything in your army is quickly and easily. If you proxy it absolutely must be consistent; no using the same gun as two different things, if it's a Terminator it had better be about the right size, et cetera, but if you can manage those I have no problems with proxies.

I used to model just for the coolness factor, but now I've come around to nearly 90% WYSIWYG, just for the simplicity of things. I've been playing more pickup games and its a load less confusing for both me and my opponent.

I've gone full blown crazy with magnetizing; jump packs vs back packs, different biker torsos representing a TH chapter master and a Sanguinary Priest etc. It can be time consuming (and expensive) but I'm extremely satisfied with how everything is turning out.

If you're on a budget, I say live by the rule of cool. I may never use two Death Company Thunder Hammer marines, but man I love the look!

I think it's important to remain consistent, but that WYSIWYG isn't too big beyond that.

For example, if you want to run a unit with ALL one weapon type as ALL another, that's fine. If you want to count ALL your plasma gun models as being melta guns, that's fine. If you have a custom built weapon that you use (consistently) in place of another special weapon, that's fine.

If you start telling me half your plasma guns are melta, some are flamers, and a few are plasma, we have issues.