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So basically what you're saying is that there's very little to go on to support the idea that the Alpha Legion has somehow resisted corruption in the last ten thousand years and remained somehow loyal to the Emperor despite having taken on new renegades and traitors, created cults, worked with Daemons and actively engaged in hostilities against the Imperium?

That's kinda what I thought.

 Psienesis wrote:
So basically what you're saying is that there's very little to go on to support the idea that the Alpha Legion has somehow resisted corruption in the last ten thousand years and remained somehow loyal to the Emperor despite having taken on new renegades and traitors, created cults, worked with Daemons and actively engaged in hostilities against the Imperium?

That's kinda what I thought.

Who are you asking?

I myself believe in a significant uncorrupted AL element in 40k. I think those with mutations are the minority of the current members. Those uncorrupted may well be divided, with some aiming to undermine the Imperium and some aimed at undermining Chaos, but I don't believe they've been tainted, mutated, killed off, left to rot with the other traitor legions. The fact they base in real space rather than the Eye of Terror and have the ability to create stable geneseed would support an argument for them sustaining themselves.

Again:

 Alpharius wrote:
You're not seeing it because the foundation for it is still being written!

So, does that mean eventually we'll see it?

No, of course not!

But odds are somewhat good that we will.

Maybe.

I do believe we will see this type of story eventually - but not before they've fnished the Horus Heresy series so as to not spoil anythng...

What alpha legion?

I would like to make a note that the High Lords of Terra have declared Alpha Legion wiped out three times, in M31, M32, and M39. All these claims have always been disapproved by the next Alpha Legion-inspired plot or rebellion that breaks out somewhere in the Imperium. This proves that the hydra still has more heads to slay.

This tells me that the Legion is still a legion. Somewhere in the galaxy, the body of the hydra is still alive. Don’t forget, if one head is alive, that head will grow and becomes the body.

Alpha Legion reminds me of the League of shadows from Batman. The organization is always around and just like Hydra, you chop the heads more comes out. Ra’s al Ghul was killed in Batman 1 and the League was still active and his daughter and Bane took care of business in Batman 3.

Alpha Legion is fracture or they might let the Imperium think that they are, but the High Lords have been wrong 3 times! We are talking about High Lords here; they are the most powerful people in the Imperium or perhaps, the galaxy. These guys do not talk about something or declare something that is not important to their interest. If the High Lords are talking about Alpha Legion, then this is a real threat and a serious issue. This is not some random CSM warband causing rebellion on some planets. This is a locus problem caused by a LEGION.


Alpha Legion were the best at this play opossum; perhaps, the best in the galaxy. No way is the Legion dead.

I heard a lot of statements fill with convection and passionate authoritative that the Alpha Legion is broken up and they have no more central command (i.e. no longer a Legion). I think we all would like to see some sources.

I don't see how the high lords of Terra saying they were wiped out but being wrong implies that they're still a legion? It could just be that other unconnected cells later showed up.

 david choe wrote:

I heard a lot of statements fill with convection and passionate authoritative that the Alpha Legion is broken up and they have no more central command (i.e. no longer a Legion). I think we all would like to see some sources.

Ha!

Bottom line - you're not going to.

The Alpha Legion background (beginning in 30K) has changed to a RIDICULOUS degree since their INDEX ASTARTES article was written.

Until the HH series is 'finished' (or close enough), we probably won't learn anything new about the 'modern' 40K Legion so as to not spoil anything they've got planned.

The simplest solution though is fairly obvious - the Legion splintered into Pro and Anti-Imperium factions, probably along Omegon and Alpharius lines, and even the Pro side is considered Traitors.

But again, there isn't anything OFFICIAL because - it hasn't been written yet.

But it's coming - soon...

 david choe wrote:

I heard a lot of statements fill with convection and passionate authoritative that the Alpha Legion is broken up and they have no more central command (i.e. no longer a Legion). I think we all would like to see some sources.

There's no sources either way, that's the whole point. We don't know. The 'sources' you're using are a fan wiki made by people who know as much as us, and a 10 year old article which is outdated and has mostly been changed. So we don't know either way. You're conviction and passionate authority is just as misplaced as anyone else's. Basically what Alpharius said ^.

So the Alpha Legion fluff and background stated that they are a Legion and are not broken up. This fluff has been around since it was founded, back in the 1980’s (I think). Then I took the most current and most respected (to us fans) articles of the famous Index Astartes of the Alpha Legion to state a point. Yes, the article is over 10 years old, but is it the most current facts that we have. In the past 30 years there were never any sources (as far as I can tell, this is why I ask for source) to indicate that they are broken up.

I thought for those of you who think that Alpha Legion is broken up as a legion have sources or something, but it turned out to be just headcanon? And you want to doubt the only source that we have to go by and consider what I propose made up or fan fiction?

This is one of the most ridiculous defense and attack I have ever read on Dakka. On one side, we have clear evidence of what the fluff is. On the other side; just wild speculation and headcanon , with strong conviction and authoritative narrative. Please do state something like IMHO, would have been good. So all of this was just a “hunch” about Alpha Legion broken up?

What other “hunches” do you guys have? (I am being rhetorical)

Yeah, we're just about done here...

 david choe wrote:
So the Alpha Legion fluff and background stated that they are a Legion and are not broken up. This fluff has been around since it was founded, back in the 1980’s (I think). Then I took the most current and most respected (to us fans) articles of the famous Index Astartes of the Alpha Legion to state a point. Yes, the article is over 10 years old, but is it the most current facts that we have. In the past 30 years there were never any sources (as far as I can tell, this is why I ask for source) to indicate that they are broken up.

I thought for those of you who think that Alpha Legion is broken up as a legion have sources or something, but it turned out to be just headcanon? And you want to doubt the only source that we have to go by and consider what I propose made up or fan fiction?

This is one of the most ridiculous defense and attack I have ever read on Dakka. On one side, we have clear evidence of what the fluff is. On the other side; just wild speculation and headcanon , with strong conviction and authoritative narrative. Please do state something like IMHO, would have been good. So all of this was just a “hunch” about Alpha Legion broken up?

What other “hunches” do you guys have? (I am being rhetorical)

Yes it's just a hunch. Because thats all we have. The Index Astartes article is like 10 years old. And it's pretty much comoletely retconned now. It's not a viable source.

Yeah, I thought that was clear?

I guess not?

Either way, all we are left with is educated guesses and speculation as to "whether or not" on many Legion topics.

FUNNY how this was removed?

“Death is nothing compare to Vindication.” Curz

or in this case

“facepalm is nothing compare to VINDICATION.” DC

 david choe wrote:
FUNNY how this was removed?

“Death is nothing compare to Vindication.” Curz

or in this case

“facepalm is nothing compare to VINDICATION.” DC

...? I don't get it, you're not being vindicated. If anything the current fluff seems to be going AWAY from what you're proposing of a unified legion. Quote all you want, it doesn't make you right.

GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING TIME: Here's the deal - next inflammatory troll post is going to earn someone a vacation from posting.

You'd think that discussions about the background stories of imaginary combatants in a game of toy soldiers would stay polite, wouldn't you?

On topic, I would love it if I was wrong and it turned out they were an organised legion because frankly that would be cool, and make them very very powerful. But I don't see it, it's been 10,000 years since the heresy where they already aren't on the same page, and they're spread through the entire galaxy. I don't see how there can be any kind of control over that.

Yeah, hard to believe they're organized in a singular way at all, given their Civil War during the Civil War.

Of course that is all just an educated guess on my part - just some idle, fun speculation, based on what I've read to date from the Horus Heresy series, both BL and FW.

MOD EDIT - CREATING SECONDARY ACCOUNTS IS A DEFINITE NO-GO ON DAKKA DAKKA.

Just based off the lexicanum quote Mr. Choe provided in the OP, the Alpha Legion is made of INDEPENDENT cells, loosely communicating through "operatives". This shows that there might be many heads, and they may be aware of the actions of some of the others, that there is no body governing them all. That pretty much answers the question (again).

No quote because I'm on my phone

Lexicanum?

Heh...

Anyway, again...as much as any of up might really, really like a definitive answer here?

There ain't one.

But that's why the discussion and speculation is so interesting and entertaining!

Part of the fun of this legion is its lack of solid facts, its many heads make for a good plot device and fragmenery nature means its free to contradict, and even work against its self.

Even when its written as such, its nature means it can be immensely flexible and every cell as it where is can side in any direction.

 Alpharius wrote:
Lexicanum?

Heh...

Anyway, again...as much as any of up might really, really like a definitive answer here?

There ain't one.

But that's why the discussion and speculation is so interesting and entertaining!

Hey man, his source, which he has actually disagreed with. Not my words. But my theory is solid

Do you think they left info on AL vague to purposely mislead readers?

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don't see how the high lords of Terra saying they were wiped out but being wrong implies that they're still a legion? It could just be that other unconnected cells later showed up.

I'd argue that the legion being declared wiped out numerous times gives further evidance to the cell based structure. a unified legion is MUCH MUCH easier to destroy

 Alpharius wrote:
GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING TIME: Here's the deal - next inflammatory troll post is going to earn someone a vacation from posting.

You'd think that discussions about the background stories of imaginary combatants in a game of toy soldiers would stay polite, wouldn't you?

Humans have killed each other over pettier reasons. :/

Missing a 4th option:
Alpha Legion is still an Organized Legion without central command. Alpha Legion is divided into independent cells that work against the Imperium. Some cells have broken down and formed warbands, or have left the Legion's cause for Imperium.

Interesting poll.... I feel vindicated. haha.

Why do you even bother asking questions about the Alpha Legion?
Their whole point is that they are so secretive and mysterious there are almost no known facts about them. Everything about the Alpha Legion is either rumour, myth or false facts planted by the Alpha Legion themselves.
Some rumours say they are still together, plotting and preparing the Imperium's downfall (or that of Chaos according to some rumours). Other rumours say they broke apart and now are just a bunch of independent warbands. Other rumours say they are destroyed entirely, while yet others say the Alpha Legion never existed at all.

Short of it is, we can't know, because there are no answers. And anyone trying to give you a answer is likely an Alpha Legion operative himself.
There are no reliable sources, there are no known facts. That is how the Alpha Legion is written, and that is what they are about.

@david choe

After your long hiatus, this is what you post? I guess you haven't learnt your lesson from the last time you "debated" with people who debunked your head-canon ideas about 40K.

 Grimskul wrote:
@david choe

After your long hiatus, this is what you post? I guess you haven't learned your lesson from the last time you "debated" with people who debunked your head-canon ideas about 40K.

as always... you never debate the topic.. just your version of your head cannon. interesting polls none the less because many agrees with me and not your position.

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
@david choe

After your long hiatus, this is what you post? I guess you haven't learned your lesson from the last time you "debated" with people who debunked your head-canon ideas about 40K.

as always... you never debate the topic.. just your version of your head cannon. interesting polls none the less because many agrees with me and not your position.

Just because people agree doesn't mean it's right. The fact is we don't know. You haven't been 'vindicated'. You really haven't learnt have you.