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 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
@david choe

After your long hiatus, this is what you post? I guess you haven't learned your lesson from the last time you "debated" with people who debunked your head-canon ideas about 40K.

as always... you never debate the topic.. just your version of your head cannon. interesting polls none the less because many agrees with me and not your position.

Just because people agree doesn't mean it's right. The fact is we don't know. You haven't been 'vindicated'. You really haven't learnt have you.

That, and the fact that he had a sockpuppet account, makes me think he may have tried to artificially inflate the numbers to favour his point of view anyhow.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why do you even bother asking questions about the Alpha Legion?
Their whole point is that they are so secretive and mysterious there are almost no known facts about them. Everything about the Alpha Legion is either rumour, myth or false facts planted by the Alpha Legion themselves.
Some rumours say they are still together, plotting and preparing the Imperium's downfall (or that of Chaos according to some rumours). Other rumours say they broke apart and now are just a bunch of independent warbands. Other rumours say they are destroyed entirely, while yet others say the Alpha Legion never existed at all.

Short of it is, we can't know, because there are no answers. And anyone trying to give you a answer is likely an Alpha Legion operative himself.
There are no reliable sources, there are no known facts. That is how the Alpha Legion is written, and that is what they are about.

You mentioned that "their whole point is the be so secretive"... guess what... to do that ... it takes organization.

What do you mean we can't know.. I show you many sources that stated that they are still an organization legion.. you are only expressing your opinion.

You are agreeing to my point.. which is they are an organization.

What are these 'many sources'?

Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

Please respect our opinion as well. The same five of you keeps trying to tell us that we must agrees with you that they are broken up. Well this poll is to show you that there are a lot of us gamers that disagree with you and they agree with me.

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

I'm going to stop with you because you make no sense. You see the proof is done and over with. The votes are in. They voted this way because they have read my evidence and they seems to agree with me.

It is just very comical that when I made this statement that they are an organization, you guys tried to belittle me and even MOD got his pride hurt and had block many of my posts. In shot, you guys disagree with my view because of personal animosity or something... or it could just be genuine disagreement. However, most agrees with my view and the "jury" has spoken.

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

I'm going to stop with you because you make no sense. You see the proof is done and over with. The votes are in. They voted this way because they have read my evidence and they seems to agree with me.

It is just very comical that when I made this statement that they are an organization, you guys tried to belittle me and even MOD got his pride hurt and had block many of my posts. In shot, you guys disagree with my view because of personal animosity or something... or it could just be genuine disagreement. However, most agrees with my view and the "jury" has spoken.

So you agree that if I made a poll saying that the earth is flat, and 80% voted in favour of this statement, that you would say the "jury" has spoken and that I'm right in my assumption. Thank you very much for showing us no tangible fluff reasons (citations or otherwise) whatsoever to believe in your theory.

No. A mod didn't delete your posts because you hurt his pride, he deleted your posts because they were inflammatory and broke forum rules.

Again, where is this evidence? I certainly don't remember your 'many sources' in this thread. And there is no proof in the poll, just (as you seem so keen to point out when people are disagreeing with you) opinion (suddenly proof when it agrees with you though...)

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

I'm going to stop with you because you make no sense. You see the proof is done and over with. The votes are in. They voted this way because they have read my evidence and they seems to agree with me.

It is just very comical that when I made this statement that they are an organization, you guys tried to belittle me and even MOD got his pride hurt and had block many of my posts. In shot, you guys disagree with my view because of personal animosity or something... or it could just be genuine disagreement. However, most agrees with my view and the "jury" has spoken.

So you agree that if I made a poll saying that the earth is flat, and 80% voted in favour of this statement, that you would say the "jury" has spoken and that I'm right in my assumption. Thank you very much for showing us no tangible fluff reasons (citations or otherwise) whatsoever to believe in your theory.

What a stupid analogy, I have show the proof. You disagree with my proof doesn't mean my proof is not fact. You are the one who thinks the world is flat ... the 20% of you.

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

I'm going to stop with you because you make no sense. You see the proof is done and over with. The votes are in. They voted this way because they have read my evidence and they seems to agree with me.

It is just very comical that when I made this statement that they are an organization, you guys tried to belittle me and even MOD got his pride hurt and had block many of my posts. In shot, you guys disagree with my view because of personal animosity or something... or it could just be genuine disagreement. However, most agrees with my view and the "jury" has spoken.

So you agree that if I made a poll saying that the earth is flat, and 80% voted in favour of this statement, that you would say the "jury" has spoken and that I'm right in my assumption. Thank you very much for showing us no tangible fluff reasons (citations or otherwise) whatsoever to believe in your theory.

What a stupid analogy, I have show the proof. You disagree with my proof doesn't mean my proof is not fact. You are the one who thinks the world is flat ... the 20% of you.

Your "proof" so far is that 80% agree with you, nothing else. If you have so much proof why don't you link it to us right now and shut us up? You keep avoiding our questions and resorting to ad hominems, and yet you wonder why we disagree with you?

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Seems like 80% of the polls agrees that the legion is an organization. Don't debate me if you don't like it. The people have spoken.

The burden of evidence is on you. You can't just say "look at the votes, I'm right", this is what I meant by you not putting out actual arguments/facts. By that logic if I had a poll where 80% of the forum voted in favour that the world was flat, then would you concede to me being correct in my assumption? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because the "majority" agrees with you does not make you right.

Also, opinions are one thing, but it doesn't make it sacrosanct from criticism or questioning, especially on a public forum. You don't want to be questioned, don't post it online.

I'm going to stop with you because you make no sense. You see the proof is done and over with. The votes are in. They voted this way because they have read my evidence and they seems to agree with me.

It is just very comical that when I made this statement that they are an organization, you guys tried to belittle me and even MOD got his pride hurt and had block many of my posts. In shot, you guys disagree with my view because of personal animosity or something... or it could just be genuine disagreement. However, most agrees with my view and the "jury" has spoken.

So you agree that if I made a poll saying that the earth is flat, and 80% voted in favour of this statement, that you would say the "jury" has spoken and that I'm right in my assumption. Thank you very much for showing us no tangible fluff reasons (citations or otherwise) whatsoever to believe in your theory.

What a stupid analogy, I have show the proof. You disagree with my proof doesn't mean my proof is not fact. You are the one who thinks the world is flat ... the 20% of you.

Your "proof" so far is that 80% agree with you, nothing else. If you have so much proof why don't you link it to us right now and shut us up? You keep avoiding our questions and resorting to ad hominems, and yet you wonder why we disagree with you?

LOL, the whole 3 pages is full of proof. Go back and read this again. Stop being a "ANTI DC club" and go read a few posts. Sheees ... this is so lame dude. I'm done replying with you... ignore now.

The only 'proof' is the old Index Astartes article which has been retconned now, as people have said before.

david choe - Please tread VERY carefully now that you're back online...

In fact, I'd suggest re-reading the rules of the site:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

paying particular attention to Rule #1 and avoiding antagonizing others.

Thanks!

 david choe wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why do you even bother asking questions about the Alpha Legion?
Their whole point is that they are so secretive and mysterious there are almost no known facts about them. Everything about the Alpha Legion is either rumour, myth or false facts planted by the Alpha Legion themselves.
Some rumours say they are still together, plotting and preparing the Imperium's downfall (or that of Chaos according to some rumours). Other rumours say they broke apart and now are just a bunch of independent warbands. Other rumours say they are destroyed entirely, while yet others say the Alpha Legion never existed at all.

Short of it is, we can't know, because there are no answers. And anyone trying to give you a answer is likely an Alpha Legion operative himself.
There are no reliable sources, there are no known facts. That is how the Alpha Legion is written, and that is what they are about.

You mentioned that "their whole point is the be so secretive"... guess what... to do that ... it takes organization.

What do you mean we can't know.. I show you many sources that stated that they are still an organization legion.. you are only expressing your opinion.

You are agreeing to my point.. which is they are an organization.

No. You can be secretive as small independent warbands as well. In fact, that makes it a lot easier. It also explains why it seems impossible to ''cut of the head'' of the Alpha Legion. There is no head. It is just independent warlords doing what they were taught during their time in the Alpha Legion, maybe they coordinate their actions with other Alpha Legion warlords, or maybe not. It could all be true.

It could equally be true that the High Lords were in fact correct in saying that the Alpha Legion has been completely wiped out, all three times. The original Alpha Legion was wiped out, but a new organisation has risen up in its place, taking the name and symbols of the previous Alpha Legion. This new Alpha Legion was also destroyed, until a new organisation with the same name was founded. This happens every time the Alpha Legion is destroyed, they are all different organisations sharing only the name and ideology. The Alpha Legion is not just an organisation, it is an idea, a concept, a belief.

Isn't the answer.... We don't know, sure they could be working against chaos more than they are working against the imperium, but we don't know, or they are a unified and conbined legion like the word bearers or black legion, we don't know.

Isnt that the kind of point of the alpha legion.

 Iron_Captain wrote:


No. You can be secretive as small independent warbands as well. In fact, that makes it a lot easier. It also explains why it seems impossible to ''cut of the head'' of the Alpha Legion. There is no head. It is just independent warlords doing what they were taught during their time in the Alpha Legion, maybe they coordinate their actions with other Alpha Legion warlords, or maybe not. It could all be true.

It could equally be true that the High Lords were in fact correct in saying that the Alpha Legion has been completely wiped out, all three times. The original Alpha Legion was wiped out, but a new organisation has risen up in its place, taking the name and symbols of the previous Alpha Legion. This new Alpha Legion was also destroyed, until a new organisation with the same name was founded. This happens every time the Alpha Legion is destroyed, they are all different organisations sharing only the name and ideology. The Alpha Legion is not just an organisation, it is an idea, a concept, a belief.

Your first paragraph could be true. This is why I stated that over or below 50% are in organization and the rest are war bands. You understand right that "loose cells" phenomena doesn't mean that there is no central command. Just like real life terrorist cells... they can act independently... but they still answer to HQ or central command. Infact... in my proof from Index, the High Lords stated that AL have operative human who move around the imperial and act as living human communication mail. Very loyal and very hard to detect. So these guys act as the hands and mouth piece of AL and tell the cells what the HQ orders are.

The second paragraph could be true, but I doubt it because AL are space marines... once you are wipe out, you are done. You need to start a new chapter or something ... you can't just "find" AL seeds and start a new AL (version 2 or 3 and so on). More than likely they AL either were not wipe out at all or they have hidden secretive strong hole some where to regroup and rebuild.

And NO, AL is not an ideology like say.. a religion. Religion or political belief is an idea that is pass on ... but AL is secretive... only members can carry on. Other new AL (version 2) can't just start up and they have no idea what the AL values and goals are ... unless they were a member. So if a member is carrying on... then the legion is never wipe out. AL is more of a bloodline than ideology.

The only way that new AL version 2 is possible is a copy cat or a fake. More of the fluff suggest that AL are not fake like Black legion pretending to be AL or some pirates decided to become AL. Those could happen, but they are not what we are consider true AL.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Isn't the answer.... We don't know, sure they could be working against chaos more than they are working against the imperium, but we don't know, or they are a unified and conbined legion like the word bearers or black legion, we don't know.

Isnt that the kind of point of the alpha legion.

The answer is: GW fluff hasn't been changed to the point that AL in the index is consider not true anymore. There are no new fluff to change this. So we just based on the fluff that still exist. Which is from the index.

You kind of miss the boat here. The topic is not about if they are on the Imperium or chaos. The topic is are they still an organization, and seems likely that they are. To serve Chaos or Imperial, they must be organized.

Sigh not this guy again.
When things are broken up into cells, they're sent out alone with more or less no communication to others.
I understand the Alpha fans like the, we're more sneaky than anything that has ever existed, but really its just a case of the youngest saying they're better at everything to the oldest.

 david choe wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Isn't the answer.... We don't know, sure they could be working against chaos more than they are working against the imperium, but we don't know, or they are a unified and conbined legion like the word bearers or black legion, we don't know.

Isnt that the kind of point of the alpha legion.

The answer is: GW fluff hasn't been changed to the point that AL in the index is consider not true anymore. There are no new fluff to change this. So we just based on the fluff that still exist. Which is from the index.

You kind of miss the boat here. The topic is not about if they are on the Imperium or chaos. The topic is are they still an organization, and seems likely that they are. To serve Chaos or Imperial, they must be organized.

Yes it has. The Index Astartes articles are old now, and much of it has been retconned. So we don't know about the AL, even if that does say they're still a unified legion (which I'm not sure it does anyway, the bit you quoted in the OP said 'Even less is known about the internal organisation of the Alpha Legion since the Heresy than was known before.', and 'It is believed' so even that isn't sure) it doesn't really mean squat these days, since a lot of those are wrong with recent fluff. And of course they don't have to be organised to serve chaos, or the Imperium. Warbands can still serve chaos. Hell there could be warbands that serve each.

Genuinely surprised by the response on the polls. I've not seen any background fluff at all suggesting the alphas have legion level organization post heresy.
The whole point was that despite having their leadership crushed, they were so skilled at operating at the cell based level, they remained effective for 10,000 years.

The only 'new' thing is the introduction of Omegon. And I wouldn't get your hopes up about him surviving the heresy. His story has not been written yet.

I believe that the Alpha Legion still exist, but are just doing what they were told to do when they split. Some have changed their beliefs and objectives since, but most still follow their last command. However, they are so fragmented, they no longer keep in touch, no longer co-ordinate amongst eachother, no longer work as a single Alpha Legion. Instead, we have several hundred Alpha Legions, all working for different reasons and goals, some in contradiction of another's objective.

david choe: Just because more people say you're right (and many of these could be fake accounts/ bribed voters) doesn't mean you are right. It is not a source of proof, and hold no place in a proper debate. People have asked for tangible evidence that is considered valid in modern 40k. As you so frequently like to say, you can't say it is anything more than your headcanon.
I have no qualms accepting my view as my headcanon if I can't prove it, but I would encourage you to do the same in this situation if you continue to show no signs of showing us real evidence.

Thats the thing with a hydra, so many heads, all thinking they're right. The main head gets cut off, 2 heads will grow, but they wont know what the head that was removed will. Which is why its always described as waving its heads around and biting itself. None is in control.

You can file the Alphas command structure under them telling a assassin, we've been fighting, long before you were taking coin.
In other words, grox gak

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Genuinely surprised by the response on the polls. I've not seen any background fluff at all suggesting the alphas have legion level organization post heresy.
The whole point was that despite having their leadership crushed, they were so skilled at operating at the cell based level, they remained effective for 10,000 years.

The only 'new' thing is the introduction of Omegon. And I wouldn't get your hopes up about him surviving the heresy. His story has not been written yet.

Did you not read my opening post? Here it is again.

“Even less is known about the internal organisation of the Alpha Legion since the Heresy than was known before. On occasions there have been successful assassinations of members of the Legion thought to be high-ranking officers, but their removal has had little visible effect on Alpha Legion operations.[1a] It is believed that since the Heresy the Alpha Legion operates as independent cells hidden throughout the Imperium, coordinating various Cultist activity to subvert Imperial rule. While these cells operate independently of one another and destroying one will not effect the effort of their overall mission, the Legion still loosely coordinates its actions across the Galaxy. Who is coordinating these efforts and how they are doing so is largely a mystery to the Imperium, but many believe they achieve this through "Operatives". These figures are apparently human, but have undergone limited psycho-hypnotic therapy to make them absolutely loyal to the Legion. These operatives, fully infiltrated into Imperial society, act as the link between Alpha Legion cells and Cultists, and are their primary method of galaxy-wide communication.” Index Astrates: Alpha Legion

That excerpt is AFTER HERESY.

This is the thing, none of this is my opinion. I made my opinion based on the index Astrates. This is not new.

Where are you guys getting the fluff that AL is not a legion any longer? I have giving more than 3 sources of this statement. I have yet to see a fluff that stated that they are not a legion. Show me that.

The reason why so many agrees with me is because they read this post and they haven't seen any counter that is not a head cannon. It is so stupid that some of you guys are clamming that this my PO, but it is not. It is fluff based on IA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I believe that the Alpha Legion still exist, but are just doing what they were told to do when they split. Some have changed their beliefs and objectives since, but most still follow their last command. However, they are so fragmented, they no longer keep in touch, no longer co-ordinate amongst eachother, no longer work as a single Alpha Legion. Instead, we have several hundred Alpha Legions, all working for different reasons and goals, some in contradiction of another's objective.

david choe: Just because more people say you're right (and many of these could be fake accounts/ bribed voters) doesn't mean you are right. It is not a source of proof, and hold no place in a proper debate. People have asked for tangible evidence that is considered valid in modern 40k. As you so frequently like to say, you can't say it is anything more than your headcanon.
I have no qualms accepting my view as my headcanon if I can't prove it, but I would encourage you to do the same in this situation if you continue to show no signs of showing us real evidence.

How can AL follow their last command from 10,000 years ago. nothing can survive for 10,000 years if they are not organized.

Usually when more people agrees on something... it is because they thing it is correct. In this case, I have provide the proof from Index A. I am guessing that they agree with me that IA is a good source of proof. If you thing that AL is of no more ... then you should show us the proof.

Again, I have yet to see proof that stated that they are broken up like World Eaters and Emperor Children. Those two legions are stated that they are no more as a legion. Crystal clear.

Where is that statement of AL that they are broken up?

Also, just because you don't agree with us... don't try to undermines us as fake accounts. [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]



You keep asking for evidence and is IA article not an evidence? Do you have anything to counter that?

Index Astartes is not good proof because it is rather old and much of it has been contradicted or replaced by newer sources.

However, afaik the Alpha Legion fluff from it is still valid, as I don't know of any newer source contradicting it.
But do note that the Index Astartes article mentions the Alpha Legion has a very flexible loose structure with cells that are completely independent from each other. Therefore it would be incorrect to assume they still operate as a legion.
The Alpha Legion is more of collection of independent warlords loosely coordinating with each other rather than a unified legion.

 Alpharius wrote:


The rest of the Pro-Emperor contingent must be REALLY, REALLY good at covert ops!

Just look at all of the Chapters that have mysterious origins. Many of them could be made of Alpha Legion.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:


The rest of the Pro-Emperor contingent must be REALLY, REALLY good at covert ops!

Just look at all of the Chapters that have mysterious origins. Many of them could be made of Alpha Legion.

Like the soul drinkers... now Alpharius has shown up with rules for a unique weapon that sounds suspiciously like the soul spear..

 david choe wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Genuinely surprised by the response on the polls. I've not seen any background fluff at all suggesting the alphas have legion level organization post heresy.
The whole point was that despite having their leadership crushed, they were so skilled at operating at the cell based level, they remained effective for 10,000 years.

The only 'new' thing is the introduction of Omegon. And I wouldn't get your hopes up about him surviving the heresy. His story has not been written yet.

Did you not read my opening post? Here it is again.

“Even less is known about the internal organisation of the Alpha Legion since the Heresy than was known before. On occasions there have been successful assassinations of members of the Legion thought to be high-ranking officers, but their removal has had little visible effect on Alpha Legion operations.[1a] It is believed that since the Heresy the Alpha Legion operates as independent cells hidden throughout the Imperium, coordinating various Cultist activity to subvert Imperial rule. While these cells operate independently of one another and destroying one will not effect the effort of their overall mission, the Legion still loosely coordinates its actions across the Galaxy. Who is coordinating these efforts and how they are doing so is largely a mystery to the Imperium, but many believe they achieve this through "Operatives". These figures are apparently human, but have undergone limited psycho-hypnotic therapy to make them absolutely loyal to the Legion. These operatives, fully infiltrated into Imperial society, act as the link between Alpha Legion cells and Cultists, and are their primary method of galaxy-wide communication.” Index Astrates: Alpha Legion

That excerpt is AFTER HERESY.

You missed the bit before where it says

It is believed

Big difference.

This is the thing, none of this is my opinion. I made my opinion based on the index Astrates. This is not new.

Where are you guys getting the fluff that AL is not a legion any longer? I have giving more than 3 sources of this statement. I have yet to see a fluff that stated that they are not a legion. Show me that.

The reason why so many agrees with me is because they read this post and they haven't seen any counter that is not a head cannon. It is so stupid that some of you guys are clamming that this my PO, but it is not. It is fluff based on IA.

We would like a more recent source, seeing as several things in IA have become outdated.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I believe that the Alpha Legion still exist, but are just doing what they were told to do when they split. Some have changed their beliefs and objectives since, but most still follow their last command. However, they are so fragmented, they no longer keep in touch, no longer co-ordinate amongst eachother, no longer work as a single Alpha Legion. Instead, we have several hundred Alpha Legions, all working for different reasons and goals, some in contradiction of another's objective.

david choe: Just because more people say you're right (and many of these could be fake accounts/ bribed voters) doesn't mean you are right. It is not a source of proof, and hold no place in a proper debate. People have asked for tangible evidence that is considered valid in modern 40k. As you so frequently like to say, you can't say it is anything more than your headcanon.
I have no qualms accepting my view as my headcanon if I can't prove it, but I would encourage you to do the same in this situation if you continue to show no signs of showing us real evidence.

How can AL follow their last command from 10,000 years ago. nothing can survive for 10,000 years if they are not organized.

Quite well. I mean, if we assume every cell has a Warband leader, they interpret Alpharius' last command themselves and their Warband adheres to it, with that same command being passed down from one leader to the next. This way, every warband has it's own command section, which keeps the warband on course with Alpharius' command, without risking exposure as they constantly consult with a main commander. Autonomy is very much the AL's thing here. It isn't a single commanded unit, it is hundreds of units following the same command through tradition. Some warbands have had enough of this and splintered, others destroyed, others twisted Alpharius' words into something new.
All Alpha Legion, but not commanded by a single entity.

Usually when more people agrees on something... it is because they thing it is correct. In this case, I have provide the proof from Index A.

Maybe so, but this goes back to having more people doesn't make you right. It just means more people agree with you.

Again, I have yet to see proof that stated that they are broken up like World Eaters and Emperor Children. Those two legions are stated that they are no more as a legion. Crystal clear.

Where is that statement of AL that they are broken up?

Well, I can cite Kernax Voldorius, a Daemon Prince, leading a Warband of Alpha Legion on Quintus, and Firaeveus Carron, a Khornate Alpha Legionnaire from DoW: Soulstorm. Neither seem to embrace typical Alpha Legion tactics, so I could assume they are leading more aggressive Alpha Legion groups. They were certainly not working for a larger plan, as far as we know.

With regards to no clear cut answer to the AL's status, it is because that is part of the AL's mystery: they are a very secretive legion. It doesn't state anywhere in such crystal clear detail in any recent publication (unless I am proved wrong) about the AL's Legion status either.

Also, just because you don't agree with us... don't try to undermines us as fake accounts. [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

Well, given that we have evidence of you making a fake account, it doesn't seem too illogical.
Plus, I haven't seen that many people support you in the comments either.

You keep asking for evidence and is IA article not an evidence? Do you have anything to counter that?

Not really, considering how old and outdated the Index Astartes book is.






All things considered, I would rather agree with Iron Captain's opinion, that they mostly follow the same cause, but without any real co-ordination, seeing their own warband as the true Alpha Legion

The old Index Astartes article, while quite nice, i s clearly outdated and most likely overwritten by what's come since.

In it, Alpharius is said to be one of the tallest Primarchs, eye to eye with Horus, and that his marines were all unusually tall as well.

Now, he's one of the shortest.

Oh, he he now as a twin too!

Remember, things change!

Didn't Leman Russ used to be an ordinary human?

Were the Crimson Fists one of the original Legions back in the day?

Anyway, the point being...we just don't know what's what with the Alpha Legion in 40K - and we won't have a definitive answer until BL/GW/FW writes one!

And even then, we probably won't!

SPOILERS AHEAD FOR SEDITION'S GATE, DELIVERANCE LOST, THE FACE OF TREACHERY, LONG GAMES AT CARCHARIAS, WE ARE ONE, AND TRUTH IS MY WEAPON.

I'm going to contrast how they appear in 30k to 40k. In 30k, they appear to be working very much independently, but they already have orders which they follow, which seem to me come from some command structure. In Sedition's Gate they don't know of the Harrowmaster's presence, and the amount of infiltrators in Deliverance Lost surprises the different agents. They kill a World Eater commander to allow Corax and the Raven Guard to escape in the Face of Treachery (with the agents). Horus ends up putting head-toady Abaddon in charge of rooting out Alpha Legionnaires inside the Sons of Horus.

The Index Astartes article, admittedly old and of dubious up-to-date information, then mentions they fracture to go into hiding after "Alpharius'" death. As d4chan puts it

It's unknown if Guilliman killed Alpharius, Omegon, or simply some gak Alpha Legion Marine who decided to pull a Spartacus and pose as them. Or both. OR NEITHER. So you can see where the memes come from. Who the hell did Guilliman kill?
Yet another theory is that neither Alpharius nor Omegon was killed. It was Guilliman who was defeated and replaced by either Alpharius or Omegon so they could destroy the Ultramarines from the inside out. It was a plan as delicious as just as planned can potentially be... until Fulgrim stabbed him in the windpipe and made him bleed to near-death. Oh well.

But I digress.

The Alpha Legion's methods don't seem to have changed altogether much by the 41st millennia.

Take Truth Is My Weapon and We Are One. They are infiltrating the Inquisition with some goal in mind, but which is unknown to the reader. In Long Games at Carcharias they take out an entire chapter to get the Black Legion some gene-seed, suggesting splinter factions may be cooperating with Traitors to a larger degree than what was seen in 30k.

While I think there are splinter factions that have split entirely from the remaining Alpha Legion and follow their own agenda, I doubt there's many judging from the amount of known Alpha Legion warbands, with the only two being the Faithless and the Shadowed Ones, which are still arguably Alpha Legion - they didn't even bother changing the paint.

So, I think they are still legion, but the Alpha Legion was never like the other legions. They always practised a decentralised chain of command where everyone worked towards a goal, and in the wake of the Horus Heresy, decentralised even further. A Loyalist equivalent might be the Dark Angels - they will all obey Azrael when it comes down to it, but they all hunt the Fallen.

 ChazSexington wrote:

So, I think they are still legion, but the Alpha Legion was never like the other legions. They always practised a decentralised chain of command where everyone worked towards a goal, and in the wake of the Horus Heresy, decentralised even further.

Given what we've seen of the Legion in 40K fiction, that sounds...more probable than not!

I voted for all three options because Alpha Legion.