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 Nivoglibina wrote:
Full units of Spears might disappoint because of the 6" range of their shots, you simply can't physically place a lot of models within 6". Same goes for HoW attacks.

I don't think it's as much for the shooting as it is for the charging. Not getting the S3 HoW isn't a big deal, you want to run it for the 16 S6 AP3 and 3 S8 AP2 attacks, Baharroth brings 5 S5 AP3 attacks, and with 2 autarchs you're looking at another 10 attacks at either S6 AP3 or S5 AP2. With no overwatch (banshee mask) and no way to tie them up in combat (hit and run), you can really pummel 1 unit, or multi-charge into several.

-Matt

How about this?

Warhost

Windrider Host-
Spirit Stone, Singing Spear- 378pts

Aspect host- (+1 to WS)
9 Shining Spears, Exarch, Star Lance
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch- 455pts

Crimson Death- 440pts

Wraithknight- 295pts

Autarch, Jetbike, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun- 110pts

Baharroth- 170 pts

Total-1848pts.


I think WS 5 on a unit off 9 Shining Spears is something of note here. Yeah, the spiders get a useless WS 5 as well, and for that reason I though about 2 small units of infiltrating scorpions instead. Went with the spiders though becasue with the Autarch, they are coming in on a 2+ and they can really take advantage of that 6" run.

I might even consider swapping the +1 WS for the +1 BS. Honestly, that unit has enough AP and high Strength that it's going to kill most anything it touches. With hit and run, the safest place for them to be is in combat. The +1 WS makes it more likely that they completely annihilate the enemy unit on the first charge, leaving them sitting there waiting to be shot at. I feel like, if you take the +1 WS, you end up with a unit that suffers from the same thing large units of Incubi tend to suffer from: Overkill. They are too good at CC, and end up being shot to death because of it.

With the +1 BS, it works on both units of spiders, plus gives your shining spears hits on 2+'s with their S6 AP3 shooting attacks, in the event you need to soften up a target before your charge.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I might even consider swapping the +1 WS for the +1 BS. Honestly, that unit has enough AP and high Strength that it's going to kill most anything it touches. With hit and run, the safest place for them to be is in combat. The +1 WS makes it more likely that they completely annihilate the enemy unit on the first charge, leaving them sitting there waiting to be shot at. I feel like, if you take the +1 WS, you end up with a unit that suffers from the same thing large units of Incubi tend to suffer from: Overkill. They are too good at CC, and end up being shot to death because of it.

With the +1 BS, it works on both units of spiders, plus gives your shining spears hits on 2+'s with their S6 AP3 shooting attacks, in the event you need to soften up a target before your charge.

With the size of the unit, you should be multi-charging if you think you'll over-kill your opponent.

In an attempt to make the original idea viable, how about a Warhost formation with Baharroth and Jain Zar? Blind checks at -5 Init might actually work. You could even put it in a Seer Council for a better chance at Gate, Invisibilty and a couple of Psychic Shrieks. Almost certainly not worth the points, but it would be a hoot.

Hesperus wrote:
In an attempt to make the original idea viable, how about a Warhost formation with Baharroth and Jain Zar? Blind checks at -5 Init might actually work. You could even put it in a Seer Council for a better chance at Gate, Invisibilty and a couple of Psychic Shrieks. Almost certainly not worth the points, but it would be a hoot.

Sure. Warp spiders from the aspect host with Jain Zar, Baharroth, and Eldrad could also Gate anywhere on the table with unerring accuracy, and pump 13.33 wounds a turn into almost any MC in the game(S6 assault 2 guns that hit on 2+, and wound against init, which is at -5 against this unit because of Jain). So they wound anything init 8 or lower on a 2+, including gargantuan creatures(Here wraithknight, is 13.3 wounds. Save that.). Bloodthirsters and Lelith Hesperax are wounded on 3+ instead. Oh, and if everything within 6 inches of Jain/Baharroth/Eldrad didn't die already: "Go ahead and give me an initiative test at -5, or be BS/WS 1 for 1 game turn."

Further, the flickerjump ability of warp spiders doesn't require them to be in a unit that ALL has the ability, so you can still use it to screw with those guys who always look for maximum devastation with their flamers. Wait till they do all their pre-measuring and announce that they're targetting this unit, then flickerjump your spiders all out of the blob so they're only hitting a few models.

All that being said, that unit is like 750 points and less versatile than the one I originally envisioned.

With the massive loss of powers from the warlocks, is the Seercouncil still viable?

2 farseers
X warlocks
Baharroth
(maybe BM Autarch to cancel overwatch)

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
With the massive loss of powers from the warlocks, is the Seercouncil still viable?

I've seen this mentioned a lot, but honestly, what they lost in numbers, they sort of make up in reliability. Previously, if you rolled the same craptastic power 3 times, you just had that crappy power thrice. Now, if you roll 3 duplicates, you reroll the other 2 until you have 3 different powers. This serves to give you more reliability when rolling on a psychic chart(ie: if you're rolling 3 times, you're guaranteed 3 powers on it plus the primaris). Further, if and when you lose a member of your squad, even when you lose a power, you choose which power you lose. So you no longer have to worry about only 1 of your warlocks having a crucial power, and having to constantly bury him in the middle of your group to ensure he doesn't get picked off.

Is 3 rolls ever going to be the equivalent to 10? No. But they've certainly made all other changes to their benefit, in order to counterbalance it as best as possible.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
With the massive loss of powers from the warlocks, is the Seercouncil still viable?

I've seen this mentioned a lot, but honestly, what they lost in numbers, they sort of make up in reliability. Previously, if you rolled the same craptastic power 3 times, you just had that crappy power thrice. Now, if you roll 3 duplicates, you reroll the other 2 until you have 3 different powers. This serves to give you more reliability when rolling on a psychic chart(ie: if you're rolling 3 times, you're guaranteed 3 powers on it plus the primaris). Further, if and when you lose a member of your squad, even when you lose a power, you choose which power you lose. So you no longer have to worry about only 1 of your warlocks having a crucial power, and having to constantly bury him in the middle of your group to ensure he doesn't get picked off.

Is 3 rolls ever going to be the equivalent to 10? No. But they've certainly made all other changes to their benefit, in order to counterbalance it as best as possible.

Council is actually better than before, Harnessing powers on a 3+ is huge. Combine that with a rerol for each farseer per turn, and its pretty OP. Dont forget to take the stone as well, that way you can cast invisibility for 1 WC.