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Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

While true, that's also what's so great about them. Depending on your opponent, their layout, or what units they have, you have options to deploy your sternies in different ways. And personally I'm not against taking sternies the slow route to get more use out of them over a game either, it just makes me "feel" slower. I very much enjoy the feel of having all my rapid fire immediately. You can get that with regular Tacs too for cheaper, but the Sternies can shoot at a more varied number of targets given their options. I think choosing the right target for the unit is at least as important as positioning when you're going the drop pod route, so maybe you choose to use them specifically on targets you have the most reasonable chances to destroy.

In any case, I get where you're coming from. I don't disagree with you necessarily either. I think the Sternies are great "because" of the variety of ways to play with them vs different situations though.

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

5 meltas kills any transport - bad rolls can happen but most of the time 5 meltas blows up any vehical you are shooting. It's even got a great chance to blow up a knight.

The jump from 3 to 5 is big, I'll grant you. It still can be hard to find a target, though.

If you've got no target - they probably have deployed super cautiously. Giving you the boards objectives and or massed up ready to get eaten by templates and large blasts. Have you tried using them in company with a few BA vindicators or thunder fire cannons? I've considered taking a BA fast Vindi to bring the hammer to the alpha strike.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

5 meltas kills any transport - bad rolls can happen but most of the time 5 meltas blows up any vehical you are shooting. It's even got a great chance to blow up a knight.

The jump from 3 to 5 is big, I'll grant you. It still can be hard to find a target, though.

If you've got no target - they probably have deployed super cautiously. Giving you the boards objectives and or massed up ready to get eaten by templates and large blasts. Have you tried using them in company with a few BA vindicators or thunder fire cannons? I've considered taking a BA fast Vindi to bring the hammer to the alpha strike.

Just offhand, if you're gonna take one Vindi, you may consider taking two. My personal experience with them is that they're seen as a big enough threat that they end up being eaten in an alpha strike, even if I bubble wrap em pretty well, or that they get about one shot off in a game before they get blown off the board. As a distraction unit, that's pretty huge, but if I really wanna field their firepower for longer, I invariably need two of them. For me it's hard to justify the points for just one of them if the chances are high that I may only get one shot off and sometimes none at all. It's the sorta unit that makes me feel like I have to deploy super cautiously as well.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

5 meltas kills any transport - bad rolls can happen but most of the time 5 meltas blows up any vehical you are shooting. It's even got a great chance to blow up a knight.

The jump from 3 to 5 is big, I'll grant you. It still can be hard to find a target, though.

If you've got no target - they probably have deployed super cautiously. Giving you the boards objectives and or massed up ready to get eaten by templates and large blasts. Have you tried using them in company with a few BA vindicators or thunder fire cannons? I've considered taking a BA fast Vindi to bring the hammer to the alpha strike.

Just offhand, if you're gonna take one Vindi, you may consider taking two. My personal experience with them is that they're seen as a big enough threat that they end up being eaten in an alpha strike, even if I bubble wrap em pretty well, or that they get about one shot off in a game before they get blown off the board. As a distraction unit, that's pretty huge, but if I really wanna field their firepower for longer, I invariably need two of them. For me it's hard to justify the points for just one of them if the chances are high that I may only get one shot off and sometimes none at all. It's the sorta unit that makes me feel like I have to deploy super cautiously as well.

I run a full drop pod force when I play ultras and I think that's exactly what I need. With 30-40 marines in the enemies face turn 1 - a vindicator coming right up the middle will draw some serious heat off my marines. Maybe even allow the sterngard to live another turn. BA vinidis are particularly aweosme because they can move 12 and shoot their main gun as a fast vehicle - I'd only be able to take one - cause I run ultras.

I really, really despise the Vindicator's side armor, though. Even taking two is just another AV 11 vehicle that is quite pricey.

Usually alpha strike are getting hosed up by transport deployment or very spread out screening units that put the good stuff out of the reach of drop pods. This also means that templates can't reach the bunched up stuff because everything must move before you start firing weapons to get rid of the bubblewrap. For example, two squads of five scatterbikes can spread out and keep pods away from huge swaths of an Eldar list. Those two squads are gonna die miserably, but the return fire will likely end the game by turn 3.

An opponent can afford to give the board objectives on turn 1 as long as they have them back by turn 5. This especially easy after a huge turn 2 counter strike against the failed alpha strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

While true, that's also what's so great about them. Depending on your opponent, their layout, or what units they have, you have options to deploy your sternies in different ways. And personally I'm not against taking sternies the slow route to get more use out of them over a game either, it just makes me "feel" slower. I very much enjoy the feel of having all my rapid fire immediately. You can get that with regular Tacs too for cheaper, but the Sternies can shoot at a more varied number of targets given their options. I think choosing the right target for the unit is at least as important as positioning when you're going the drop pod route, so maybe you choose to use them specifically on targets you have the most reasonable chances to destroy.

In any case, I get where you're coming from. I don't disagree with you necessarily either. I think the Sternies are great "because" of the variety of ways to play with them vs different situations though.

Your opponent may not let you choose a good target, though. That's the whole problem.

I'll go against the grain a bit and suggest running them without any weapon upgrades, and just take advantage of their special ammunition. They wreck enemy infantry. Even MEQ infantry, who will lose on average 6.67 marines when that squad of ten sternguards jumps out of the pod and unloads on them.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
I'll go against the grain a bit and suggest running them without any weapon upgrades, and just take advantage of their special ammunition. They wreck enemy infantry. Even MEQ infantry, who will lose on average 6.67 marines when that squad of ten sternguards jumps out of the pod and unloads on them.

That's one way to do it, but I find that some melta in the squad lets them engage a much wider variety of targets for those ~40-50 pts.

So how do dropped sternguard handle the much feared Craftworld scattybikes?

nareik wrote:
So how do dropped sternguard handle the much feared Craftworld scattybikes?

They blow a chunk of them up Bikes are just MEQ as far as taking hits go. If DanielBeaver is right with them killing 6.67 marines, that’s how many bikes go away. They can jink for the cover save, and assuming you don’t have anything to deal with that (HQ w/auspex), half that will get to live. Then they will probably zoom away. A minimum 3 man squad is going to die, but I’d hope so, as the sernguard cost significantly more points.

nareik wrote:
So how do dropped sternguard handle the much feared Craftworld scattybikes?

I'm guessing it's not cost effective.

nareik wrote:
So how do dropped sternguard handle the much feared Craftworld scattybikes?

Depending on your target selection, I would say good.
Dragonfire Bolts alone can make quick work of a lot of units hiding in cover.
Hellfire rounds round do well vs high Toughness models
Kaken Bolts give you some extra range and are good for 4+ Save Inits
Vengeance Rounds for 3+ Saves [like Eldar Jet Bikes]