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Hey guys, building a SM army and I'm newish to the hobby. So what is a good load out for sternguard? The shop I play at has the complete array of armies so I really don't know about specializing to play against one army.

thanks!

Combi melta's and combi grav guns on all of them as a minimum. Have the squad armed with either Grav Guns or Melta guns. Give the Sgt. a CCW + Grav pistol. Add a drop pod, and Bob is your Uncle.

Sample:
1 Vet. Sgt with CCW, Grav Pistol
2x Grav Guns (or melta as you prefer)
7x Combi Melta or Combi Grav guns
Drop Pod

This is pretty much anti MEQ/Armor/MC's. Won't work that well against horde armies. For anti hordes work, look at Heavy Flamers and combi-flamers.

The first list is pretty much the default list though.

Oh shoot so the common squad is 10 units? I only got a single box of 5.

MitchellTyner wrote:
Oh shoot so the common squad is 10 units? I only got a single box of 5.

5 is fine.

10 is nuke it from orbit turn 1 fine.

But Tamwulf's points are completely valid - combi meltas or gravs are fantastic.

They're a shooting unit. Don't spend points on gearing them for assault. You want them shooting. Use them to destroy something big on Turn 1, just expect them to get nuked hard shortly after. Their special ammo can be fantastic too.

EDIT: Personally I have 10 Sternguard, which I combat squad into 2x5. Squad one is combi meltas. Squad two is combi flamers. It's nice to be able to roast infantry and tanks on turn 1 in their deployment zone.

MitchellTyner wrote:
Oh shoot so the common squad is 10 units? I only got a single box of 5.

Five is good for a suicide squad in a drop pod.

For board presence, you'll want 10.

If you want an army of Sternguard, get Pedro Kantro- he makes Sternguard into a troops choice, then you can take the Battleforged Formation and get Objective Secured for all your Sternguard.

durn now I think I gotta get another 50 dollar box of 5 haha. Anyway, definitely got to find some small enough magnets to do these with since they cost so much lol.

So by the two veterans getting melta's are you talking about the regular special weapon melta or the heavy multi-melta?

Sternguard are too expensive to be used as suicide troops.

 Tamwulf wrote:

If you want an army of Sternguard, get Pedro Kantro- he makes Sternguard into a troops choice, then you can take the Battleforged Formation and get Objective Secured for all your Sternguard.

He makes them have Objective Secured, he does not make them troops.

Well since it seems that 10 is the number I went on and ordered another box of sterns... also threw in a land raider crusader, drill bits, and 2mm and 3mm magnets for good measure.

As for my other question, is the heavy weapons like the heavy flamer and multi melta good to run on the stern or should I just use the special weapon versions?

I like my sternguard bare bones. You can get a lot of use out of the special ammo, and the combis boost the price up too high these days to be worth it IMHO. Obviously, opinions vary. The only weapon I can see being worth giving up the ammo for is the heavy flamer, as it has a lot in common with the special ammo.

The only combi I think is worth it is the melta. For the most part the other combis just do the things special ammo does, but a little better and at 10ppm.

From a modeling POV, the sternguard kit is so over the top ornate, you can cut it with spare parts from tactical squads to get more bang for your buck. At the very least, spread some of the spare bits to your sergeants.

Martel732 wrote:
Sternguard are too expensive to be used as suicide troops.

Wot?

They're the marine equivalent of wraithguard with archon. You point at something scary and remove it from the table, or you take 10, combat squad them and remove 2 things from that table (or 1 really big thing *cough* wraithknight *cough*)

Suicide sternguard are a thing, have been a thing for ages and will undoubtedly still be a thing for ages because it works and it's almost always worth the trade since they can't be ignored and will suck up some shooting in addition to removing stuff. You might not like the fluff rape that throwing away 10% of your most elite troops in the chapter every game implies, but that's how it goes.

Yes, and when people suicide their Sternguard against me, they usually lose.

i have mine set up a special way as the groups I play in are cool with it.
I drilled a hole in the top of each of the backpacks. just large enough to place a pushpin into it.
Then, I have a variety of pushpins I can place in them which are color coded. usually only two colors are required. A color representing a particular combi weapon. Like say yellow for melta and red for flamer for example.
Then, after the combi has been fired, I just remove the pin to show itsnow just a bolter. it also helps keep track of exactly which ones have fired the combis and which have not.
This can help you save a lot of money while giving you all of the possible options. it can also allow you to tailor to army types (I would not recommend tailoring to particuler army lists where you know what they are taking beforehand of course. But for army "types" it can be effective and fluffy. For example, against a guard army, your likely to be facing tanks and lightly armored squads so getting 5 flamers and 5 meltas might not be a bad idea. that way when you pod them down together in combat squads, they can each target the appropriate enemy and be effective.
This way, even if you "suicide them", they will take out more points worth of enemy than they cost themselves and still be a thorn that has to be addressed afterwards.

I have been working on taking my Powered Armored Wolf Guard with just a Bolt Gun and Bolt Pistol in a Drop Pod. I give the Pack 3 Combi-Plasmas.
It has worked well so far as I don't really send after real heave targets like tanks, but against Transports the Plasma Opened up the Transport and the Bolters go after the stuff that was inside.
I am sure the same tactic would work for Sternguard with 2 Plasma-Guns and a Combi-Plasma.

 EVIL INC wrote:
i have mine set up a special way as the groups I play in are cool with it.
I drilled a hole in the top of each of the backpacks. just large enough to place a pushpin into it.
Then, I have a variety of pushpins I can place in them which are color coded. usually only two colors are required. A color representing a particular combi weapon. Like say yellow for melta and red for flamer for example.
Then, after the combi has been fired, I just remove the pin to show itsnow just a bolter. it also helps keep track of exactly which ones have fired the combis and which have not.
This can help you save a lot of money while giving you all of the possible options. it can also allow you to tailor to army types (I would not recommend tailoring to particuler army lists where you know what they are taking beforehand of course. But for army "types" it can be effective and fluffy. For example, against a guard army, your likely to be facing tanks and lightly armored squads so getting 5 flamers and 5 meltas might not be a bad idea. that way when you pod them down together in combat squads, they can each target the appropriate enemy and be effective.
This way, even if you "suicide them", they will take out more points worth of enemy than they cost themselves and still be a thorn that has to be addressed afterwards.

Not a bad idea really. I might have to try that. Though I think I'm going to magnetize the guns on them but still that's a pretty durn good idea.

2x Heavy Flamers per squad, a few combi meltas and bolters. Their special issue ammo is nice and they are worth it for that alone.

You can't have half a unit shoot at a transport and the second half shoot at the squad that was in there during a single turn, can you?

I'm confused by what these bolter/plasma wolfguard are doing :S.

You can do that with combat squaded sternguard but not wolfguard.

Martel732 wrote:
Yes, and when people suicide their Sternguard against me, they usually lose.

Then that must true for all the peoples of the globe.

Or.

Perhaps.

Just, perhaps.

Suicide Sternguard are a great choice for certain tasks, targets or against certain armies.

@OP All this talk of using them as a one and done in drop pods is one way of playing them. You don't have to always do that. They're excellent at a lot of different things, and their special ammo makes them VERY adaptable. Don't use them the same way every time - be creative with them.

If you have enough specialist units, drop in barebones squads.
Always drop pods, as other transports take too long to get into range. Their bolter ammo makes them all semi-specials, and it is included in their cost.

But, if you're playing small games, or your Sterns are filling a role, get specials, combis and maybe a heavy or two to fill that.

The problem with pods is the 10 seats max. Adding Pedro means you cannot take him with a full 10-man squad.

Martel732 is talking rubbish again. There's a reason I have him on ignore

Sternguard are expensive, so a suicide unit has to be appropriately targeted to make its points back, but that tactically chosen alpha strike can win you games.

Martel732's comment is his opinion and personal experience, so cannot be disproven. Price is subjective, and win-rates could go either way.
That doesn't mean it is anything like other people's experience.

But, as said, suicide units aren't expensive if they make enough impact on the game to warrant using them.

nareik wrote:
You can't have half a unit shoot at a transport and the second half shoot at the squad that was in there during a single turn, can you?

I'm confused by what these bolter/plasma wolfguard are doing :S.

iirc If you are firing at a transport and destroy it with one weapon system the rest of the weapons can fire at the transported unit.

Or am I thinking about Assaulting...

I can never find the rule when I am looking for it.

There are several factors in play here. First off, I play against many players that are VERY good at setting up against the alpha strike. This is problematic for anyone using an alpha strike list.

Secondly, melta has been nerfed quite hard against vehicles in 7th. We went from one pen having a 50/50 shot to explode to two pens having a bit better than 50/50 shot. That's only a litte better than half as effective.

If one is going to throw away a pod+10 sterguard+combi-weapons worth of points, one needs to be sure the job gets done. Because they WILL die on the next turn. There are no second chances. In 7th ed, I just view this is a bad gamble.

And it's no like you can really back out of this plan. Sternguard in a pod either alpha strike or become footslogger victims. The pods force your hand, and often force you right into the hands of your opponent.

Personally, I've found that being in a Rhino ends up being just as effective, and is actually much more effective against other alpha strike lists. Against lists that can kill the Rhino at long range, you'll need screening, but BA are always screening something anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

nareik wrote:
You can't have half a unit shoot at a transport and the second half shoot at the squad that was in there during a single turn, can you?

I'm confused by what these bolter/plasma wolfguard are doing :S.

iirc If you are firing at a transport and destroy it with one weapon system the rest of the weapons can fire at the transported unit.

Or am I thinking about Assaulting...

I can never find the rule when I am looking for it.

That's assault. Which you can't do out of pods. No, transports hose up the alpha strike scheme pretty badly.

zerosignal wrote:
Martel732 is talking rubbish again. There's a reason I have him on ignore

Sternguard are expensive, so a suicide unit has to be appropriately targeted to make its points back, but that tactically chosen alpha strike can win you games.

You can call it rubbish, but suicide units struggle heavily against savvy players and often don't make the impact you refer to. I wouldn't be so adamant about this if I didn't personally do this to one marine player after another. I've even started calling their drop pod deployment "the phase where you throw away 300 pts for me" to their faces. They keep on doing it, I keep on soaking it and killing them. They just don't do enough in one turn. Now invisible grav stars? I tip my hat to those as something I can't really deal with.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Martel732's comment is his opinion and personal experience, so cannot be disproven. Price is subjective, and win-rates could go either way.
That doesn't mean it is anything like other people's experience.

But, as said, suicide units aren't expensive if they make enough impact on the game to warrant using them.

In other threads Martel has been pretty up front about not using suicide troops, which is perfectly valid if you feel like you're throwing away points. It's a personal decision how you use them in the end really. I can understand where he's coming from and a lot really does come down to how your meta plays.

I feel like having access to super cheap ASM squads in the BA list that can perform the suicide drop role (if you choose to have that role in your army) somewhat shades the opinions on use of the more expensive Sternies to do that same thing, but I also think the Sternies have some very distinct advantages tactically.

The Sternies ammo is so versatile that even if you don't decide to drop em, they can be used to shoot the faces off many different units. What I like best about drop podding though is that they are immediately in range of whichever units I choose to point them at to make use of the rapid fire capabilities of their bolters. Double heavy flamers is also wonderful, and if I need to combat squad to fire at different things, maybe pop a transport, then kill what's inside with the other half of the unit, or even just split up my fire tactically to use half the unit to take on infantry vs armor, I'm still golden. They're really great at making new options available for different opponents.

All that being said, I do feel a little like if I use them without a drop pod, they live longer, but I always end up feeling like it takes me longer to get them anywhere I can use all my guns on rapid fire mode and I could have just done that with regular tactical units. I think the drop pod alpha striking versatility is their primary advantage and I'm more than okay with suiciding em at a reasonably high points cost if I can get a strategic return on their use in every game.

Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

For myself I find Plasma-Guns and Combi-Plasma works better as a Transport/MC killer.
>Longer Range
>More shots at 7"-12"

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

5 meltas kills any transport - bad rolls can happen but most of the time 5 meltas blows up any vehical you are shooting. It's even got a great chance to blow up a knight.

wow nice impute this morning. I have 2 drop pods with my army so far and I think I'll use those to drop my dreads in. I think personally I want the sterns to live longer so i'll load them in Rhino's or Razorbacks depending on the size I end up running.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on the size of the transport model, you can't always pop the transport and then hit the unit that jumps out. A non-exploded transport becomes a wall you can't shoot through. This is one reason the nerf to melta is HUGE.

Getting one shot off at 24" and then a shot at rapid fire range is still 50% more firepower than you get if you suicide them.

5 meltas kills any transport - bad rolls can happen but most of the time 5 meltas blows up any vehical you are shooting. It's even got a great chance to blow up a knight.

The jump from 3 to 5 is big, I'll grant you. It still can be hard to find a target, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:
For myself I find Plasma-Guns and Combi-Plasma works better as a Transport/MC killer.
>Longer Range
>More shots at 7"-12"

Melta is not for killing MCs. Sternguard already have poison ammo for killing MCs. I'm more than willing to risk a tac marine's life with plasma, but with Sternguard, I prefer not to.