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Doing a beat-by-beat reimagineering of the ST film most consider the best is certainly risky but not in any way similar to the kind of risks TOS took. It's the risk of falling way short of something that was good because you want to leverage the marketability of that thing having been good. By contrast, TOS dared to be original.
Although I enjoyed Timothy Zahn's stab at it, I've no real interest in the EU. It was all too reverential of the OST and obsessed with seeing what the characters did next, when really the films had told their story.
I like that we're picking up with a new crowd in the Force Awakens and hope that the older cast don't have too large a role to play as it will distract from the fresh start.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:33:54
I don't think JJ Abrams ruined ST or anything like that. In fact he made his films in an alternate reality just to avoid doing that. As for him not capturing the spirit of ST, well there is basically two Star Treks: The TV shows which deal with exploring what it means to be human and and moral conundrums and whatnot and the movies which are more about action and explosions. After the success of Wrath of Khan most of the movies involve there being a bad guy and the heroes defeating him. So JJ Abrams movies are in line with that.
Unfortunately, from what I've heard the next ST movie is going to be even more explosion filled than JJ Abrams movies. I like explosions as much as the next guy but we need to tone it done a bit and get back to some Star Trekking.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't think JJ Abrams ruined ST or anything like that. In fact he made his films in an alternate reality just to avoid doing that. As for him not capturing the spirit of ST, well there is basically two Star Treks: The TV shows which deal with exploring what it means to be human and and moral conundrums and whatnot and the movies which are more about action and explosions. After the success of Wrath of Khan most of the movies involve there being a bad guy and the heroes defeating him. So JJ Abrams movies are in line with that.
Unfortunately, from what I've heard the next ST movie is going to be even more explosion filled than JJ Abrams movies. I like explosions as much as the next guy but we need to tone it done a bit and get back to some Star Trekking.
Haight wrote: Not at all. In fact Star Wars Rebels has officially blessed The Clone Wars as canon with the introduction of Ahsoka Tano into it (apparently she's a Rebellion cell operator,
Disney said from day 1 that Star Wars: The Clone Wars was canon, along with the 6 films, Star Wars: Rebels, and the new line of novels. What wasn't canon is Star Wars: Clone Wars (the Gendy series), but even that is debatable given that the events in that series lead directly into Revenge of the Sith. (e.g., Grievous's chest getting crushed and Palpatine getting "abducted")
Really, it's the old novels and comics that are out, which is fine. The best of those elements will make their way back into the series at some point, the worst of it will die an ignoble death in "Legends" land. Anything that removes Karen Travis and her mando-fetish from the world is A-Okay in my book.
Fair - I had never heard that personally, so i was happy to see references to the Clone Wars in Rebels which is official, in the flesh blessing it.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Also, disney said "EU doesnt exist anymore, all novels, tv, games, porn parodies and so for are not canon and are What IF"
No matter how many times you say that, it will never be true.
It was the LUCASFILM STORY GROUP (pre-disney buy-out) and it was NEVER "canon" anyway (well, not "G-canon", the only one that counted). Yes, there were some good stories, but there were a lot of bad and iffy ones.
Which is not to say that it can't BECOME canon.
Sienar fleet systems WAS EU. It was created for the old rpg. That game had a "writer's bible" that went on to become the bible FOR the EU. SFS became canon when used in Rebels. Other elements have also become canon. Like Coruscant. First used BY Tim Zahn. It became canon when EP1 used it.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Also, disney said "EU doesnt exist anymore, all novels, tv, games, porn parodies and so for are not canon and are What IF"
No matter how many times you say that, it will never be true.
It was the LUCASFILM STORY GROUP (pre-disney buy-out) and it was NEVER "canon" anyway (well, not "G-canon", the only one that counted). Yes, there were some good stories, but there were a lot of bad and iffy ones.
Which is not to say that it can't BECOME canon.
Sienar fleet systems WAS EU. It was created for the old rpg. That game had a "writer's bible" that went on to become the bible FOR the EU. SFS became canon when used in Rebels. Other elements have also become canon. Like Coruscant. First used BY Tim Zahn. It became canon when EP1 used it.
And the Outrider which appeared in the SE of A New Hope and Aayla Secura, who was created for the EU but ended up being included in Attack of the Clones.
Thank you for point out that there are different levels of canon in Star Wars, a fact that most people who bitch about "Disney killed the EU!" don't really seem to understand.
G-canon always has and always will overrule all other canon materials, including C-canon (all the books, comics, games, etc.). Also, sidenote: the Lucasfilm Story Group was formed in 2013, after the 2012 purchase of Lucasfilm.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, that was the problem with those movies. That and the general feel was almost totally different.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I think more than the Zahn books are positive parts of the EU. The Rogue and Wraith squadron books especially are pretty dang good, without barely a lick of the original characters to make them work. Awesome space battles and dogfights.
Now, ok, there were a couple of books with rage zombies...........which were definitely an.. interesting ..angle to take, even if not a good one.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/30 04:05:32
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Alpharius wrote: Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence...
And reconstituted them as an unholy amalgamation, an abomination not fit for the light of day. And the writing was so lazy they had old Spock show up with spoilers to help the crew along.
Top left of the picture. This is the new version of the scene where Luke, Ben, and droids enter Mos Eisley.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Top left of the picture. This is the new version of the scene where Luke, Ben, and droids enter Mos Eisley.
You fool! You made the mistake of using the "remastered" versions of the OT in a Star Wars thread, now you'll get torn apart by thousands of angry nerds.
Well, maybe just 2-3.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Alpharius wrote: Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!
No, all the other Star Trek stuff still exists as the main timeline. So the Abrams-verse is like another parallel dimension. I know it doesn't really make sense but you have to use some fancy Star Trek quantum space logic.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
At the very least that will work in his favor. He's not remaking stuff that happened, its something totally new and fresh. So we won't have any sacrilegious desecration like Into Darkness pulled on Wrath of Khan.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I liked it too, as a stand alone movie. But it didn't feel like Star Trek, just like the first movie didn't either. And it was a desecration on Wrath of Khan, which is just wrong.
Its like how the Eragon movie was a decent movie, but a terrible rendition of the book.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: I liked it too, as a stand alone movie. But it didn't feel like Star Trek, just like the first movie didn't either. And it was a desecration on Wrath of Khan, which is just wrong.
Its like how the Eragon movie was a decent movie, but a terrible rendition of the book.
Grey Templar wrote: I liked it too, as a stand alone movie. But it didn't feel like Star Trek, just like the first movie didn't either. And it was a desecration on Wrath of Khan, which is just wrong.
Its like how the Eragon movie was a decent movie, but a terrible rendition of the book.
But....those books were terrible, too....
I wouldn't say terrible, just a little meh. But the movie managed to take a meh but ok story and do terrible things to it.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Alpharius wrote: Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!
No, all the other Star Trek stuff still exists as the main timeline. So the Abrams-verse is like another parallel dimension. I know it doesn't really make sense but you have to use some fancy Star Trek quantum space logic.
No.
Actually - whatever?
It exists in a timeline that we'll never see again, so it might as well be gone forever...
I'm actually kinda ok with the passing of the torch from the star wars expanded universe.
Heck, in my mind, the EU ended with 'Vision of the Future' anyhow. That was as good a footnote on the universe as any. (And no moons were dropped on anyone, either).
In saying that... I really do want to see new stories in the Episode 7 universe whether there is a blue skinned, red eyed Imperial Admiral that is an evil Sherlock Holmes in space.
If they can take and pick the best parts of the EU and insert them into new, yet somewhat familiar ways in the new Star Wars movies, I'm all for it.
Actually, that sounds kind of familiar. Wasn't there some other thing that Disney were involved in that took a vast array of many decades worth of alternative and contradictory storylines and distilled them down, taking the best elements from all of these into a single chunk that'd appeal to mass audiences?
Compel wrote: Actually, that sounds kind of familiar. Wasn't there some other thing that Disney were involved in that took a vast array of many decades worth of alternative and contradictory storylines and distilled them down, taking the best elements from all of these into a single chunk that'd appeal to mass audiences?
Alpharius wrote: Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!
No, all the other Star Trek stuff still exists as the main timeline. So the Abrams-verse is like another parallel dimension. I know it doesn't really make sense but you have to use some fancy Star Trek quantum space logic.
No.
Actually - whatever?
It exists in a timeline that we'll never see again, so it might as well be gone forever...
Yes. It's actually called the "AR" for alternate reality. As for never seeing the prime reality again: who can say? Maybe we will and maybe we won't but the success of the JJ Abrams movies didn't decrease the likelihood we will. Quite the opposite IMO. For the people that hate those movies don't forget Star Trek was well and truly dead when they were made. I'd rather have these two movies than absolutely nothing at all.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Yes. It's actually called the "AR" for alternate reality. As for never seeing the prime reality again: who can say? Maybe we will and maybe we won't but the success of the JJ Abrams movies didn't decrease the likelihood we will. Quite the opposite IMO. For the people that hate those movies don't forget Star Trek was well and truly dead when they were made. I'd rather have these two movies than absolutely nothing at all.
That, and the original movies, series and books still exist. It's not like you can't watch them or read them now that the universe has been reset.
Same applies to the Star Wars EU... I have almost all of the EU novels, and as bad as some of them are, and as silly and convoluted as the universe became, I'll continue to re-read them long after Episode 7 and beyond have been released. A reboot doesn't invalidate what came before... it just launches a new series of stories in a similar setting. I can enjoy a universe that includes the New Republic and a universe that doesn't at the same time. It's all just more Star Wars, in my book, and not really any different to all of the different iterations of Batman, or King Kong, or anything else that has been interpreted in different ways by different story tellers.
Alpharius wrote: Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!
No, all the other Star Trek stuff still exists as the main timeline. So the Abrams-verse is like another parallel dimension. I know it doesn't really make sense but you have to use some fancy Star Trek quantum space logic.
No.
Actually - whatever?
It exists in a timeline that we'll never see again, so it might as well be gone forever...
Yes. It's actually called the "AR" for alternate reality. As for never seeing the prime reality again: who can say? Maybe we will and maybe we won't but the success of the JJ Abrams movies didn't decrease the likelihood we will. Quite the opposite IMO. For the people that hate those movies don't forget Star Trek was well and truly dead when they were made. I'd rather have these two movies than absolutely nothing at all.
No.
I'm pretty sure all the old Star Trek stuff is now "AR" and JJ's in what we're getting for the foreseeable future - and I'm OK with that.
As for Star Wars?
I never followed much of the EU, and from what I can tell...I'm not missing much?
Most of the world only thinks of the movies as 'canon' and maybe the cartoons too - if they think about 'canon' at all.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
