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I get why you prefer to always pick out the fail dice. I usually do that myself. However, I tend to pick up successes when I have more fails. It's faster to pick out the 5 hits made by shoota boyz than it is to pick out the 15 fails. It's not like I roll the dice then rush to claim hits before anyone can see what I rolled. It's just faster that way.
If you're really going to split hairs and/or rage quit over my dice removal methods in a pick up game then you probably have poor prioritization.
There is a difference between rage quitting, and recognising when you're about to play against someone who doesn't believe in the social contract. I just don't want to play with people who aren't willing to make EASY courtesy concessions so that their opponent enjoys the game. Against an opponent who sees no value in courtesy, I'd rather skip the game where we're supposed to have fun and just go fight in the parking lot. The fighting in the parking lot would be a lot more enjoyable than pretending to have fun, maintaining a facade of civility while playing a fake wargame with a guy who won't even allow you the basic courtesy of ensuring he's not cheating.
If you think, under those circumstances, that politely asking my opponent to comply with rolling methods that allow me to see his rolls is unreasonable, and that if he refused I should still play, then you're probably not someone I'd want to play with anyhow. And if you -were- someone who I didn't care to play with, I certainly wouldn't care that you think I have "poor prioritization". The fact of the matter is, if you aren't willing to play in a manner that your opponent is OK with, your opponent should NEVER continue to play with you. If I ask you to please let me see the dice before you pick them up, and your response is "Pffft, I'm not gonna do that. I got stuff to do. I'm hurrying." Then you can go do your stuff. It's not about rage quitting. It's about wisdom. I'm old and wise enough to realise that a response like that foreshadows something bigger. It means that whoever this person is, he is about to make the next 2-3 hours of your life worse than it otherwise would be if you skipped the game with him. Knowing that, unless I'm in a tournament, I will pack up and walk away. And if that guy tried to stop me thereafter, wanting to change his mind and comply only after I decided not to play, I still wouldn't play him.
It's not about getting your way. It's not about stomping your feet and getting your opponent to do what you want him to do. It's about the fact that someone who refuses such a simple and reasonable request, delivered in a polite manner by a person you've entered into a social contract with to have fun with for a couple hours, is a TFG. And even if you twist their arm and they agree with this one basic courtesy, they'll still be a TFG who isn't going to be fun to play with.
For the record, my definition of TFG is someone who has little or no regard for his opponent's general well-being. I don't call people a TFG for bringing competitive lists, netlists, or other completely OP things so long as they're generally within the rules of the games we play. I'll play even the most OP sounding list at least once. I also don't mind people who do a bit of rules lawyering, or otherwise want to debate a rule. That's not what TFG is. TFG is the guy who brings the SAME OP list every week, and expects you to keep playing against it every week. TFG is the guy who won't let you use his large blast template because he somehow thinks if you can't find a blast template to use, that you can't use your attack/ability. TFG is the guy who gets huffy puffy thinking your turn is too long, but who takes the same amount of time as you. TFG is the guy who demands that you don't move any models while he goes to the bathroom, but then won't leave his dice on the table long enough for you to see his rolls. TFG is the socially abrasive, super-serious, self-entitled buttcap who thinks anyone owes it to him to play a game. You can be polite, entertaining, and generally a stand-up guy while metaphorically crushing your opponent in game. The important part is being as polite, entertaining, and honest as you can be.
There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!! 2500
3400
2250
3500
3300
For tournament play, I would suggest keeping banter down to a minimum. Play it through, play it right, and no problems happen. The only thing an opponent needs to do is make decisions and move models, as everything else in the game is entirely fine to allow your opponent to do if they follow the rules. Closest-to-closest model removal is perfect, because whether I'm removing casualties or you are, it's the correct one that's being removed. I let my friends and opponents use my dice and remove my models because I trust them to be honest. If I spot that they're doing it dishonestly or incorrectly, I point out the error and we're back on track.
Roll your dice in the open, call out the numbers that you need, and clearly communicate. This is also known as not being a jerk. Makes the game go by remarkably fast.
For casual play though, the only thing that matters is having a good time. If you want a fast casual game, inform your opponent that this is what you want. I'll talk for hours if given the chance, and my casual games tend to involve beer and snacks, some onlookers, and lots of laughter. Some players find the social interaction the game brings out the most enjoyable part, and like it when I'm like this. Others are there for the challenge of pitting your force against theirs, and they'd find the way I talk annoying. The trick is to communicate your intentions clearly.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
lustigjh wrote: I get why you prefer to always pick out the fail dice. I usually do that myself. However, I tend to pick up successes when I have more fails. It's faster to pick out the 5 hits made by shoota boyz than it is to pick out the 15 fails. It's not like I roll the dice then rush to claim hits before anyone can see what I rolled. It's just faster that way.
If you're really going to split hairs and/or rage quit over my dice removal methods in a pick up game then you probably have poor prioritization.
I'm with the other guys on this.
Picking successes typically ties to cheating. As a general rule, just don't do that. It looks like you're trying to cheat, even if you're not. And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
JohnHwangDD wrote: And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
I check successes before moving dice regardless. Therefore, picking out the minority is always faster.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
Stop telling people how to play the game. I'll play the way that is the most efficient to me and if someone wants to sweat over the possibility that I miss a dice once in a while that's their problem.
Alex Kolodotschko wrote: I almost always make run moves during the movement phase if the opponent doesn't mind and it wont effect the game too much. Speed things up a lot if you're playing horde armies.
This is a good idea too. Although, if you're playing a TFG, they probably won't let you do this for no good reason. So that brings us to the next point to speed up games:
Don't be TFG.
EDIT: Also, for the record, another method to speed up games is: Enjoy the experience. Take time to enjoy socializing with your opponent. Make some jokes. Laugh a little. Live a little. In the end, maybe you only play 1 game instead of 2. If you had fun playing the 1 game, but you'd have had to been a stone-faced super serious tryhard to get 2 in, doesn't that make playing the 1 game the better option? No one here is winning the world series of 40k, and if they are, the prize will inevitably be worth less than the army you used to win it. So just relax.
Its TFG to request someone play by the rules?
I tried to speed up some dice rolling the other day and it cost me my tooled up Chapter Master, after of course he missed his orbital.
Plasma devs, we decided to roll all the dice in the tray and the scatter on the table. Roll gets hot first, 2 go off one gets hot, fine. Now we roll both 2d6 sets for scatter in the tray and both are direct hits because both sums are less than 4". Grand total of 8 hits because, now get this, if I had placed those templates I would have done so in an effort to maximize hits and so now I put the template over this model and say, 4 hits times 2.
I get why you prefer to always pick out the fail dice. I usually do that myself. However, I tend to pick up successes when I have more fails. It's faster to pick out the 5 hits made by shoota boyz than it is to pick out the 15 fails. It's not like I roll the dice then rush to claim hits before anyone can see what I rolled. It's just faster that way.
If you're really going to split hairs and/or rage quit over my dice removal methods in a pick up game then you probably have poor prioritization.
There is a difference between rage quitting, and recognising when you're about to play against someone who doesn't believe in the social contract. I just don't want to play with people who aren't willing to make EASY courtesy concessions so that their opponent enjoys the game.
Contracts are not "do what I want or I leave". Contracts go two ways. We can both have what we want if we confirm the dice before moving anything then remove what's in the minority. That's an easy concession, yet you make it seem like the only acceptable procedure is to do things your way. In this case, you're the one refusing to make EASY courtesy concessions.
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Desubot wrote: The whole picking up failed over success dice is for those who speed through and pick up quickly.
The fact that if you accidentally pick up a fail dice as a success its cheating and if some one sees you it can lead to a hell of a mess.
Thats why if you pick up fails and accidentally pick up a success its less of an advantage and basically no harm done.
Yes, I get this. I've never been in a situation where the time difference between rushing through dice rolls and pausing to check results has been important. Then again, I don't start games unless I have a few hours to properly finish them, and I don't play competitively. I'm not going to potentially gimp myself to satisfy someone's impatience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/04 18:06:47
JohnHwangDD wrote: And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
I check successes before moving dice regardless. Therefore, picking out the minority is always faster.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
Stop telling people how to play the game. I'll play the way that is the most efficient to me and if someone wants to sweat over the possibility that I miss a dice once in a while that's their problem.
See that highlight? You just admitted that you are a cheater.
The rest of us were right to require you to play so that we can verify your rolls.
But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Picking successes typically ties to cheating. As a general rule, just don't do that. It looks like you're trying to cheat, even if you're not. And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
This is well said.
I always figured this too: you need to roll again, get rid of the other dice or things will get confused.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Icculus wrote: But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
The easy solution is to not take Snap Shots.
But you're right that you'd pile the fails together and pick them up as a pile, rather than picking up 34 individual fails one-by-one. Again, making it clear to the opponent which dice were successes so that everybody can agree on the number of hits / wounds / whatever before picking any of them off the table.
JohnHwangDD wrote: And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
I check successes before moving dice regardless. Therefore, picking out the minority is always faster.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
Stop telling people how to play the game. I'll play the way that is the most efficient to me and if someone wants to sweat over the possibility that I miss a dice once in a while that's their problem.
See that highlight? You just admitted that you are a cheater.
The rest of us were right to require you to play so that we can verify your rolls.
Care to explain how "someone else worries that I'll miss a dice" equates to "I intentionally fudge my rolls" or are we all supposed to take that hilariously misinformed leap at face value?
Icculus wrote: But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
The easy solution is to not take Snap Shots.
But you're right that you'd pile the fails together and pick them up as a pile, rather than picking up 34 individual fails one-by-one. Again, making it clear to the opponent which dice were successes so that everybody can agree on the number of hits / wounds / whatever before picking any of them off the table.
That's basically what I've been saying. Confirm the outcome, then move dice, except instead of manoeuvering 34 fails around 6 hits I'm picking out the 6 hits and rolling them elsewhere (or skipping the whole charade and just rolling 6 different dice).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 18:54:53
Bring a printed or photocopied list to hand to your opponent. I do mine on spreadsheets.
Make a spot on your list to write down your warlord traits, psychic powers, track VPs for Maelstrom Missions, weapons that your obliterators spun up so you don't accidentally repeat or argue about what you did. Basically, keep your gak organized!
I keep a small bowl or plate for my dice so they aren't scattered everywhere.
@lustigjh whether you cheated or not isn't the problem
the problem now is that there is no way to prove it ether way
Now you have created a dead lock with no possible solution till one person backs down. which is delaying the game and creating a negative environment.
Its the same issue with people that move there gak to see if something will fit, then "takes back" the move and alter its original position for better or worse.
Edit: @ Kronk Box tops are nice for dice rolling. espcially on that damn GW City table. gutters... gutters everywhere!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 18:59:06
Regarding the success/fail dice removal, I've always pulled out the fails, however if its something like snapshots whereby only a few are actually gonna hit, we remove the successes, but instead of pulling them and rolling in one, we take the successes, and without changing them put them to one side so all can see them, then sweep the rest away
JohnHwangDD wrote: And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
I check successes before moving dice regardless. Therefore, picking out the minority is always faster.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
Stop telling people how to play the game. I'll play the way that is the most efficient to me and if someone wants to sweat over the possibility that I miss a dice once in a while that's their problem.
See that highlight? You just admitted that you are a cheater.
The rest of us were right to require you to play so that we can verify your rolls.
Care to explain how "someone else worries that I'll miss a dice" equates to "I intentionally fudge my rolls" or are we all supposed to take that hilariously misinformed leap at face value?
Icculus wrote: But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
The easy solution is to not take Snap Shots.
But you're right that you'd pile the fails together and pick them up as a pile, rather than picking up 34 individual fails one-by-one. Again, making it clear to the opponent which dice were successes so that everybody can agree on the number of hits / wounds / whatever before picking any of them off the table.
That's basically what I've been saying. Confirm the outcome, then move dice, except instead of manoeuvering 34 fails around 6 hits I'm picking out the 6 hits and rolling them elsewhere (or skipping the whole charade and just rolling 6 different dice).
You're the one who's picking up failures, calling them successes, and say that it's my problem? That's cheater play, pure and simple. I shoudn't have to "trust you" - you should have to demonstrate that you didn't cheat. And the correct way to do that is by only picking failures so that it's clear to both sides how many successes were rolled.
"Missing a die" is cheating, plain and simple.
And, no, that's not what you've been saying. At no point were you saying you were ensuring that your opponent confirmed the number of successes. You're just picking up dice, saying that they were successes and rolling them. Everybody else is ensuring that our opponent can see for themselves how many successes were rolled.
As a new Ork player I never even thought about the possibility of picking up hits being considered cheating. I only picked up hits in the huge handfuls of dice I threw, because invariably there were far fewer of them.
However, usually it's not an issue because I am playing casual games with friends, and I would always give them the benefit of the doubt if they said that I picked up a miss instead of a hit.
But I can see how difficult it could end up being. In future, I will either pick up my misses, or, once my opponent has verified how many hits I have rolled, only pick them up.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Desubot wrote: @lustigjh
whether you cheated or not isn't the problem
the problem now is that there is no way to prove it ether way
Now you have created a dead lock with no possible solution till one person backs down. which is delaying the game and creating a negative environment.
Its the same issue with people that move there gak to see if something will fit, then "takes back" the move and alter its original position for better or worse.
Edit: @ Kronk Box tops are nice for dice rolling. espcially on that damn GW City table. gutters... gutters everywhere!
I haven't created a deadlock, though. When you confirm the result before touching the dice you can roll the next group however you want - there's no fudging an established count unless you erase it and forget.
I would say even if you think your right about a issue but the other guys stubbon just roll for it instead of leting it become a argument. Youll feel better in the long run.
JohnHwangDD wrote: And if you're letting the dice sit long enough you might as well pick up fails anyways.
I check successes before moving dice regardless. Therefore, picking out the minority is always faster.
Stop picking up "successes". Only pick up "fails".
Stop telling people how to play the game. I'll play the way that is the most efficient to me and if someone wants to sweat over the possibility that I miss a dice once in a while that's their problem.
See that highlight? You just admitted that you are a cheater.
The rest of us were right to require you to play so that we can verify your rolls.
Care to explain how "someone else worries that I'll miss a dice" equates to "I intentionally fudge my rolls" or are we all supposed to take that hilariously misinformed leap at face value?
Icculus wrote: But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
The easy solution is to not take Snap Shots.
But you're right that you'd pile the fails together and pick them up as a pile, rather than picking up 34 individual fails one-by-one. Again, making it clear to the opponent which dice were successes so that everybody can agree on the number of hits / wounds / whatever before picking any of them off the table.
That's basically what I've been saying. Confirm the outcome, then move dice, except instead of manoeuvering 34 fails around 6 hits I'm picking out the 6 hits and rolling them elsewhere (or skipping the whole charade and just rolling 6 different dice).
You're the one who's picking up failures, calling them successes, and say that it's my problem? That's cheater play, pure and simple. I shoudn't have to "trust you" - you should have to demonstrate that you didn't cheat. And the correct way to do that is by only picking failures so that it's clear to both sides how many successes were rolled.
"Missing a die" is cheating, plain and simple.
And, no, that's not what you've been saying. At no point were you saying you were ensuring that your opponent confirmed the number of successes. You're just picking up dice, saying that they were successes and rolling them. Everybody else is ensuring that our opponent can see for themselves how many successes were rolled.
Where on Earth did I say I was picking up failures and calling them successes? Refer to the following for "demonstrate that you didn't cheat":
I check successes before moving dice regardless.
Confirm the outcome, then move dice.
It was implied that I didn't do this behind cover and that "confirm" means "confirm with opponent". I shouldn't need to waste time spelling out obvious implications.
Even if I didn't do the above and accidentally picked up a failed dice, that's not "cheating". That's making a mistake. Cheating requires intent and is not relevant here unless you're going to argue that everyone's a cheater for forgetting rules on occasion.
Quit putting words in my mouth.
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e.earnshaw wrote: I would say even if you think your right about a issue but the other guys stubbon just roll for it instead of leting it become a argument. Youll feel better in the long run.
This works for some disputes but if someone thinks the answer is clear a roll off is only going to satisfy them if it's in their favor. I'm not going to let fate decide whether someone gets to shoot through LOS blocking terrain because their weapon has Ignores Cover.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 20:35:36
Desubot wrote: @lustigjh whether you cheated or not isn't the problem
the problem now is that there is no way to prove it ether way
Now you have created a dead lock with no possible solution till one person backs down. which is delaying the game and creating a negative environment.
Its the same issue with people that move there gak to see if something will fit, then "takes back" the move and alter its original position for better or worse.
Edit: @ Kronk Box tops are nice for dice rolling. espcially on that damn GW City table. gutters... gutters everywhere!
I haven't created a deadlock, though. When you confirm the result before touching the dice you can roll the next group however you want - there's no fudging an established count unless you erase it and forget.
So you will wait there and let them by eye count every single hit or miss. even with 100 dice on the table? edit: The point was to speed the game up, you are siting there count each and every dice to confirm the numbers and confirming with your opponant who you will have to make sure they are checking as well. Obviously this doesnt matter if you are only rolling like 5-10 dice. but 20-30 dice on a crowded table then it does become a time issue. Its also entirely possible you Double count or miss count a hit or miss which is why removing dice as you go is important.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
e.earnshaw wrote: just roll for it instead of leting it become a argument. Youll feel better in the long run.
Unless it rolls against you.
You will still feel cheated
no roll will ever get rid of that feeling if you are being called or calling some one a cheater.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 20:28:17
Desubot wrote: So you will wait there and let them by eye count every single hit or miss. even with 100 dice on the table?
edit: The point was to speed the game up, you are siting there count each and every dice to confirm the numbers and confirming with your opponant who you will have to make sure they are checking as well. Obviously this doesnt matter if you are only rolling like 5-10 dice. but 20-30 dice on a crowded table then it does become a time issue. Its also entirely possible you Double count or miss count a hit or miss which is why removing dice as you go is important.
If it's that close then I'm probably removing the fails anyway. I'm talking about cases of a small number of hits that are easily verified by sight. It doesn't really take that long to count up four 6s in a pile of 1s and 2s.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 20:39:54
I get why you prefer to always pick out the fail dice. I usually do that myself. However, I tend to pick up successes when I have more fails. It's faster to pick out the 5 hits made by shoota boyz than it is to pick out the 15 fails. It's not like I roll the dice then rush to claim hits before anyone can see what I rolled. It's just faster that way.
If you're really going to split hairs and/or rage quit over my dice removal methods in a pick up game then you probably have poor prioritization.
There is a difference between rage quitting, and recognising when you're about to play against someone who doesn't believe in the social contract. I just don't want to play with people who aren't willing to make EASY courtesy concessions so that their opponent enjoys the game.
Contracts are not "do what I want or I leave". Contracts go two ways. We can both have what we want if we confirm the dice before moving anything then remove what's in the minority. That's an easy concession, yet you make it seem like the only acceptable procedure is to do things your way. In this case, you're the one refusing to make EASY courtesy concessions.
This conversation is exactly why I'd pack up shop. Rather than responding, "Oh, sure, it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to see the dice first," you'd rather argue about it. Anyone who doesn't see the merit in brushing aside failed dice to help count out successes, and wants to argue about it instead is simply not worth my time.
Alex Kolodotschko wrote: I almost always make run moves during the movement phase if the opponent doesn't mind and it wont effect the game too much. Speed things up a lot if you're playing horde armies.
This is a good idea too. Although, if you're playing a TFG, they probably won't let you do this for no good reason. So that brings us to the next point to speed up games:
Don't be TFG.
EDIT: Also, for the record, another method to speed up games is: Enjoy the experience. Take time to enjoy socializing with your opponent. Make some jokes. Laugh a little. Live a little. In the end, maybe you only play 1 game instead of 2. If you had fun playing the 1 game, but you'd have had to been a stone-faced super serious tryhard to get 2 in, doesn't that make playing the 1 game the better option? No one here is winning the world series of 40k, and if they are, the prize will inevitably be worth less than the army you used to win it. So just relax.
Its TFG to request someone play by the rules?
If I have 120 storm guardians that get to move 6", run 6" automatically(due to formation), and still shoot, and I tell my opponent, "Hey, I'm going to move, battle focus run, and end up shooting with all 120 of these guys here. Do you mind if I just move them the 12" instead of moving 120 guys 6" each, then 6" again? And the guy says "No, I want you to move them 6 inches twice." then yes, that's TFG. If there was a rule or something that could have some effect on it, I'd understand, but in the case I proposed, there isn't any reason not to do it all together for time's sake.
Icculus wrote: But what if you are snapshooting 20 ork shoota boys at a flyer. thats 40 shots, only hits on 6s.
You want me to pickup all 34 dice before picking up the 6 dice that actually hit?
But seriously in these cases. I just slide the misses out of the way, or slide the hits to the forefront. I dont pick any dice up, just slide them around to be group together.
People have been saying the words "pick up failures" a lot, when that isn't entirely necessary. Just sliding them off to the side like you're saying, leaving behind the successes is all that really needs be done. Something to seperate the successes from the rest of the pack BEFORE quickly picking them all up and rolling them. Sounds like you're already doing just fine. I wouldn't have any complaints.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/04 21:31:29
There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!! 2500
3400
2250
3500
3300
Alex Kolodotschko wrote: I almost always make run moves during the movement phase if the opponent doesn't mind and it wont effect the game too much. Speed things up a lot if you're playing horde armies.
This is a good idea too. Although, if you're playing a TFG, they probably won't let you do this for no good reason. So that brings us to the next point to speed up games:
Don't be TFG.
EDIT: Also, for the record, another method to speed up games is: Enjoy the experience. Take time to enjoy socializing with your opponent. Make some jokes. Laugh a little. Live a little. In the end, maybe you only play 1 game instead of 2. If you had fun playing the 1 game, but you'd have had to been a stone-faced super serious tryhard to get 2 in, doesn't that make playing the 1 game the better option? No one here is winning the world series of 40k, and if they are, the prize will inevitably be worth less than the army you used to win it. So just relax.
Its TFG to request someone play by the rules?
If I have 120 storm guardians that get to move 6", run 6" automatically(due to formation), and still shoot, and I tell my opponent, "Hey, I'm going to move, battle focus run, and end up shooting with all 120 of these guys here. Do you mind if I just move them the 12" instead of moving 120 guys 6" each, then 6" again? And the guy says "No, I want you to move them 6 inches twice." then yes, that's TFG. If there was a rule or something that could have some effect on it, I'd understand, but in the case I proposed, there isn't any reason not to do it all together for time's sake.
The problem with doing something like that, is that eldar have quite a few psychic powers, so there may be a legitimate concern you would end up running your units into range of your Farseer or something. There may also be a concern that it might affect the decisions you make in running early, eg one squad performed better than expected, so the next squad could run in a different direction, which may have been beneficial for your opponent. If it wasn't for battle focus it wouldn't make much difference
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/04 22:24:03
I get why you prefer to always pick out the fail dice. I usually do that myself. However, I tend to pick up successes when I have more fails. It's faster to pick out the 5 hits made by shoota boyz than it is to pick out the 15 fails. It's not like I roll the dice then rush to claim hits before anyone can see what I rolled. It's just faster that way.
If you're really going to split hairs and/or rage quit over my dice removal methods in a pick up game then you probably have poor prioritization.
There is a difference between rage quitting, and recognising when you're about to play against someone who doesn't believe in the social contract. I just don't want to play with people who aren't willing to make EASY courtesy concessions so that their opponent enjoys the game.
Contracts are not "do what I want or I leave". Contracts go two ways. We can both have what we want if we confirm the dice before moving anything then remove what's in the minority. That's an easy concession, yet you make it seem like the only acceptable procedure is to do things your way. In this case, you're the one refusing to make EASY courtesy concessions.
This conversation is exactly why I'd pack up shop. Rather than responding, "Oh, sure, it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to see the dice first," you'd rather argue about it. Anyone who doesn't see the merit in brushing aside failed dice to help count out successes, and wants to argue about it instead is simply not worth my time.
If you're going to leave shop because I want to pick up minority successes after we've counted dice then you're doing the shop a favor. If it's that evenly split where it's hard to tell quickly then it won't matter because I'd be pulling out fails anyway.
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