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lustigjh wrote:

If you're going to leave shop because I want to pick up minority successes after we've counted dice then you're doing the shop a favor.

I didn't say leave the shop. I said "pack up shop". It's a figure of speech. And I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble finding another game, or something else to do with my time. I have a right not to play with people who make life suck. Free advice: Avoiding interaction with people who like to argue makes life better. Have a great life. I'm not going to bother responding to any further vitriol.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

If you're going to leave shop because I want to pick up minority successes after we've counted dice then you're doing the shop a favor.

I didn't say leave the shop. I said "pack up shop". It's a figure of speech. And I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble finding another game, or something else to do with my time. I have a right not to play with people who make life suck. Free advice: Avoiding interaction with people who like to argue makes life better. Have a great life. I'm not going to bother responding to any further vitriol.

QFT. LIfe is too short to waste time going through the motions of play game with someone you don't enjoy playing with.

I've just thought - What's all this noise about picking dice up?!

We tend to separate Successes and Fails on the table top, just slide the fewer number to one side.

Easy, and no one gets cheated.

I like to do it as it keeps the board tidy, too. And it's all about being neat and tidy!

In many places, people pick up dice after rolling, in order to roll the next batch. Best practice is to pick up failures first, leaving only the successes on the tabletop, for the opponent to verify before moving on.

But not everyone does this, and typically it's a bush league cheat. Quickly pick up "successes" and sneak in a few fails, for extra dice to roll.

Sliding dice into groups accomplishes a similar thing as picking up failures - you're still making it clear for the opponent to verify which dice succeeded before picking any of them up.

Instead of not talking to the other player, learn to play while talking, in short learn to multitask.

Like my grandpa used to say to his employees" if you cannot move your arms at the same time you move your trap hole, then shut your trap".

Nothing requires you to stop what you are doing when you talk, you don't require your hands when you talk( well maybe if you're italian, but then its a culturale thing, and you'll be excused)

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
In many places, people pick up dice after rolling, in order to roll the next batch. Best practice is to pick up failures first, leaving only the successes on the tabletop, for the opponent to verify before moving on.

Aye, this is how we do it. Another dice tip (to avoid dice dropped on the floor, under terrain or just landing cocked) is to take the lid off a Rhino box or anything else handy to roll them in. It can help quite a lot in some cases.

I have found it is actually easier to roll 10-15 dice multiple times and pick out the successful rolls than it is to roll 20,30 ,40 etc at a time. The dice go in unpredicatae locations and its hard to hold them all when its that many. And plus you have the whole thing where you accidentally drop a few before you roll and if its a fail your opponent usually makes you keep it, and if its a success then roll it with the rest.

Also dont roll dice on those stupid GW board sets. You'll get cocked dice all day on that thing.

 Eldarain wrote:

 statu wrote:
Main one I've found is to cut out any and all talk not related to the game while playing, by which I mean you only to your opponent, and only along the lines of declark g what you are about to do

The solution is worse than the problem in that case IMO.

I've had some serious issues with this. I had a game slow to an absolute crawl because the players (teenagers, but only one was really guilty of this) kept quoting things and impersonating wh40k characters before veering off into politics. The game never got finished.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

This is a pet peeve of mine. People who snatch up all the "successes" really quickly, then act like they don't know what you're talking about when you say, "Hey, that was a 3, not a 4". I just always do this myself, and politely ask my opponent to do it as well. If I'm in a tournament and my opponent refuses, I will then simply ask that they don't remove any dice until I've had a chance to confirm them as being successes. If they still don't comply, I'll call a TO over. I've never really had it go that far, but I suspect most TOs would just tell them to remove failures instead of successes. It's the most logical way to handle it.

Outside of a tournament, if someone refused the first polite request to pick up fails, I'd just pack up. It's not worth the headache, and someone who refuses something like that is either 1: In FAR to great a hurry, or 2: Is already in an argumentative state of mind. Either way, unless forced to by tournament rules, I'd rather not spend time attempting to enjoy playing a game with them.

I have to agree with lustigjh on the situational though.

If you are rolling To Hit on Overwatch, picking up the 6s is completely acceptable, as you can count them almost as soon as they hit the table.

I like to say it to my opponent: "Oh, 3 Hits" before his hand reaches out. I mean unless you are overwatching with 30+ shots.....
Alternatively, as you know overwatch is going to be minimal, you could just take another handful of dice and roll it a bit further on the table.

I would think it's bleeding obvious that by "picking up" I would mean picking it up for the counting.

Most everyone I've played agaisnt counts it out as they pick up the die.

"1...2, 3.... 4... and that's 5 misses."

If we've sat down with a calculus and run the math before you even touch the die, I couldn't give less of a toss if you pick up the green dies first and then any that has a "bad vibe" second. You do your hocus pocus then.

But that's not how it works. People count them as they pick them up.

Everytime JohnHwangDD make a comments, I can only stare at the profile picture...

-To speed up thing, even in game at home with friends, we tend to cut the talking UNTIL the game start. Playing while talking is easier for us than playing while getting organise/rolling traits/psychic power/etc. Once the game is started, you can chat while moving your unit. Shooting and the rest need more focus so the chatting tend to die by itself there.

-Like someone else said: combine move with run (tell your opponent) we also leave marker when it's a big game (so we don't accidently fire a squad that already run)

-Know your army. When I ask you: what weapon does this guy has? you should be able to answer. For the exact stats of each weapon and unit, the annex table at the end of the codex is really effective. But to know your list rest on you and you only. Also, be familiar enough with the rule in general.

-Decide before you even meet what kind of game you want to play. Eternal War or Maelstrom, or something more specific setup by both player. You should only have to
1)roll for deployment zone
2)roll who decide his side
3)roll traits + psychic
4)roll who deploy/start first
5)steal initiative
6) Enjoy your beer and pretzel (I prefer Candy and Rhum)

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

If you're going to leave shop because I want to pick up minority successes after we've counted dice then you're doing the shop a favor.

I didn't say leave the shop. I said "pack up shop". It's a figure of speech. And I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble finding another game, or something else to do with my time. I have a right not to play with people who make life suck. Free advice: Avoiding interaction with people who like to argue makes life better. Have a great life. I'm not going to bother responding to any further vitriol.

Sorry, I missed that, but the point still stands. The rest of your post goes both ways.

Excellent Idea Icculus!

 Icculus wrote:
Here's a movement tip from someone who plays Orks. Fielding 60+ infantry can take a long time to move them. So whether you're playing Orks, Nids or IG this can help when moving that huge blob.

Measure the movement of the model in the front and move him. Then turn him around backwards. Then measure and move the guy in the back and turn him around. Then you can set down the tape measure and just fill in the infantry in between the front and back guy. You turn them around backwards so you dont lose track of who the front and back guys are.

If it's an especially big blob or it's spread out, Measure the guys in the corners and move them first. Alternatively you can run your tape measure around the edges of the blob dropping dice or markers of some kind at the edge of their maximum movement. Then just move them all up trying to keep the same spacing and not going past those markers.

I use the cardboard trays that Monster Rehab 24 packs come in for moving my army between tables or as general catch all during the game. Nice to use (3" sides), I'm recycling, and not a concern to replace.

When I play Daemons in a structured format, I usually make a spreadsheet grid and print a copy off for each game, listing all of my Daemons who have rewards or are psykers and fill in the blanks as I roll them up. Auto includes can be pre-printed. This saves me a lot of hassle and gives a pretty clear list of what you have to your opponent.

Excellent idea! I never put down all the physic powers, warlord traits, etc on my army list. I guess the back of a single sheet can contain all that jazz. I also have a "Mark's Warhammer Binder" that has all my painting recipes, army lists, etc in Plastic Envelope Sleeves. Basically I can have just ONE plastic sleeve on my table, my dice and a few templates/counters instead of all manner of books.

 kronk wrote:
Some decent stuff so far.

Bring a printed or photocopied list to hand to your opponent. I do mine on spreadsheets.

Make a spot on your list to write down your warlord traits, psychic powers, track VPs for Maelstrom Missions, weapons that your obliterators spun up so you don't accidentally repeat or argue about what you did. Basically, keep your gak organized!

 statu wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 statu wrote:
Main one I've found is to cut out any and all talk not related to the game while playing, by which I mean you only to your opponent, and only along the lines of declark g what you are about to do

The solution is worse than the problem in that case IMO.

Suppose it depends on the conditions, I used to play in a shop where you had to setup, play and pack up a 1500pt game in an hour, so any idle chat meant your game would end turn 2.

Sounds fun and relaxing...

I think this thread shows the 40k players are more dysfunctional than the 40k rules.

If you want to speed up play than I would recommend playing games at a point value that matches the time you're willing to commit to it. I prefer 1500 pts, but 1000 pts seems to be a good level too for decent games.

Use less terrain. More shooting happens, stuff dies faster. Drawback is table looks awful most of the time.

Or house rule out the time bleeding nonsense. My group has dropped the 7th edition method of allocating wounds. Saves a surprising amount of time.

No psykers, drops a whole phase.

Give up the idea of playing 2 games of 40k in a 3-4 hour block and just enjoy the one you can get in.

We try to use terrain and objectives as symmetric as possible, so we can avoid rolling for sides

A "No Psykers" rule kind of screws over specific army's far more than others. I don't think I could support such a house rule, especially being an Eldar player.

No Psykers? No problem.

If we're doing away with an entire phase of the game, I will bring out my Imperial Guard and request that we play No Movement.

He asked how to save time, no pyskers does that. Don't blame the messenger.

No Movement saves even more time.

Only one player saves more time still. >_>

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I think this thread shows the 40k players are more dysfunctional than the 40k rules.

I see where you're coming from. At the same time, the rules are a big reason for 40k being in the state it is. 40k matches last way longer than they used to be in previous (pre-6th) editions - so either the players got a lot dumber / slower or the rules changed. Post-5th's way of removing models, partial cover checks etc. are a huge reason for longer matches. Lowering points cost across the board to boost sales contributed to a higher model count and thus...as before. GW's fetish of introducing more and more special rules and psychic abilities over the time made it worse. 40k in its current state is a huge, bulky mess of incoherent and intransparent rules and thus, naturally, games take longer than expected.

I agree with you.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I think this thread shows the 40k players are more dysfunctional than the 40k rules.

I see where you're coming from. At the same time, the rules are a big reason for 40k being in the state it is. 40k matches last way longer than they used to be in previous (pre-6th) editions - so either the players got a lot dumber / slower or the rules changed. Post-5th's way of removing models, partial cover checks etc. are a huge reason for longer matches. Lowering points cost across the board to boost sales contributed to a higher model count and thus...as before. GW's fetish of introducing more and more special rules and psychic abilities over the time made it worse. 40k in its current state is a huge, bulky mess of incoherent and intransparent rules and thus, naturally, games take longer than expected.

Who the frack let logic in here?!! Heresy! Brother Cletus, hand me my boltgun. We need some death and glory up in here.

This thread hurts my head with all the back and forth about cheating. At the end of the day, it's still just toy figures and dice with someone else who shares the hobby.