Deep Striking a Fortification?

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**HANZERtank**

Sunhero wrote:

A building is a model so can go in reserve
(p.132 "Which ever method you use models must ether deploy within the deployment zone or be held in reserve.")

I've already explained that you can do this but the building is automatically destroyed in a previous post on this thread, rendering anymore argument on the ability to deepstrike fortifications pointless.

**Sunhero**

@ read the line underneath
This unit is not automatically destroyed because it can be deployed.
"Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step of Preparing for Battle."

So when do you destroy something that can't move after it's been deployed you do it if it is impossible to deploy.

Since its not impossible to deploy its not destroyed its not complicated.

I don't think this is RAI but its undeniably RAW

**HANZERtank**

You still can't deepstrike it though, it becomes destroyed if you can't deploy it. Otherwise models that can't be moved after deploying can't be put in reserves. The only time it can be put in reserves is when theres no room to deploy it and then it does get destroyed.

**Sunhero**

HANZERtank wrote:
You still can't deepstrike it though, it becomes destroyed if you can't deploy it..

you can deploy it though.

so you can put it in reserve and then deepstrike it.

HANZERtank wrote:
The only time it can be put in reserves is when theres no room to deploy it

what? that is is not stated any where.

**Yarium**

I think Sunhero's pointing out that an example of such a unit is a drop pod. That said, my friend's already agreed to not attempt this, so my stake in this argument is over.

**jeffersonian000**

After reviewing the rules on Buildings, Deployment, Deep Strike, and the Web Way Portal, it does appear that the WWP can be used to allow a Building to be placed in Reserve for Deep Striking. Weird, but RAW.

SJ

**FratHammer**

Don't ask 11th company though they will shoot it down and not explain why as they chuckle.

**jeffersonian000**

I was in the "no way" camp until I read up on each rule. Buildings are units, and units can be reserved. In order to Deep Strike from reserve, a unit requires the Deep Strike USR (or something similar). Web Way Portal allows a unit in reserve to deep strike the unit it is embarked upon. Brain explodes.

SJ

**Ascalam**

Can you do it? Maybe, depending on interpretation of the rather dodgy rules - it can be argued either way IMHO.

Will anyone let you do it? probably not.

That said i'd love to see someone try to deepstrike a FOR.

Not only is it huge, but it's four seperate buildings. If any of the buildings mishaps it causes the universe (or possibly the FOR) to split in half...

**jeffersonian000**

I'd allow it, as not only will it be so rare an occurrence to be like glimpsing a unicorn, but the look on their face when the Building doesn't fit and therefore Mishaps will be priceless.

SJ

**DeathReaper**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
Buildings are units
SJ

If they are units, what is their unit type???

"In addition to its characteristics profile, each model will have a unit type..." (Models and Units chapter, Other Important Information section)

P.S they are not units. They act like units in certain situations, but they are not units.

**BlackTalos**

More importantly to this entire discussion, the rule says: "the model and any unit it has joined or is embarked upon has the Deep Strike special rule"

How does the Unit in question embark on the fortification? (to grant it Deep Strike)

Reserves Rule:
"Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve"

Since when is a Fortification (Unit or not Unit) a "Transport vehicles"?

No, the RaW does not allow for the OP idea. Fortifications cannot get the Deep Strike USR.

**jeffersonian000**

Fortifications
Some pieces of scenery are called fortifications. These can be included in a player’s army or used as pieces of ‘neutral’ scenery controlled by neither side. If a fortification is taken as part of an army, then it is set up with the rest of the units in the army using the same deployment rules as the other models.

Battlefield Role: Fortification
Fortifications are battlefield defences, including everything from barricades to towering fortresses. They are typically buildings and/or battlefield debris that your army has either constructed or captured just before the start of the battle. You’ll find a wide range of fortifications presented in Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault, and further fortification datasheets feature in other Games Workshop publications.

Buildings
Buildings of all types use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules. The main difference between buildings and actual vehicles is that they can’t move, they can be controlled by either side and units from either side can embark upon them.

Preparing Reserves
When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. In addition, if it impossible to deploy a unit for any reason, it must be placed in Reserve. The only exception to this are units that cannot move after they have been deployed. Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step of Preparing for Battle.

Combined Reserved Units
Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together.

Simply put, if you take DE in a detachment that can have a Fortification, fill that role with a Building, reserve that Building with an embarked unit that also has a Web Way Portal, you may Deep Strike said Building with its embarked passengers. This is only possible due to the Web Way Portal, and how the rules cited above interact with a unit that has a Web Way Portal upgrade.

SJ

**BlackTalos**

jeffersonian000 wrote:

Simply put, if you take DE in a detachment that can have a Fortification, fill that role with a Building, reserve that Building with an embarked unit that also has a Web Way Portal, you may Deep Strike said Building with its embarked passengers. This is only possible due to the Web Way Portal, and how the rules cited above interact with a unit that has a Web Way Portal upgrade.

SJ

The underlined above needs some RaW Support. It's not in the rules you've listed.

**Drager**

DeathReaper wrote:
If they are units, what is their unit type???

I am confused, do units have unit types, thought only models did.

**Glitcha**

Fortifications can be placed in reserves. They have to be deployed. I believe its under the fortification rules in the BRB.

**Big Blind Bill**

jeffersonian000 wrote:

At the moment, I would challenge anyone to find a Formation that allows a Fortification to Deep Strike.

SJ

Shhhhhhh, Geedubs is watching....

*INTRODUCING THE NEW REDEMPTION ANVIL FORMATION! 5 NEW DEEPSTRIKING FORTRESSES WITH WHICH TO FORGE THE NARRATIVE!*

On a more serious note, even if there was a loophole letting fortifications deepstrike, and I'm pretty sure there is not, I doubt you will find any tournaments or FLGS that would consider it fair play.

**Drager**

Glitcha wrote:
Fortifications can be placed in reserves. They have to be deployed. I believe its under the fortification rules in the BRB.

Could you reference? This is the point in dispute, so it seems to me.

**Sunhero**

DeathReaper@Building are units
1.• A claimed building is a unit in the controlling player’s army p.112
2.• At the start of the game, all buildings that were taken as part of a player’s army are ‘claimed’ by the owning player.

@BlackTalos "Moving into or out of a building works the same as embarking or disembarking from a vehicle...all of the normal rules aplly" p.110

@ Glitcha your thinking of 6th edition

**HANZERtank**

So far everything seems fine apart from one point I noticed. In the deep strike rules it says that buildings, apart from battlements, are impassable terrain. Does this mean that a unit can't be embarked or that it confers the no scatter but then the archon suffers mishaps or some other thing happens?

**BlackTalos**

Sunhero wrote:
@BlackTalos "Moving into or out of a building works the same as embarking or disembarking from a vehicle...all of the normal rules aplly" p.110

Great, you have permission to get in or out during your movement phase ("move")

How does this allow you to deploy inside it, in reserves?

Just as info, this is how i deploy in fortifications on the table:

Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity.

This is how I deploy inside Transports in Reserves:

Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together.

None of which tell me how anyone can get a Unit into a Fortification that is in Reserves....

**Xenophon00**

Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

**DeathReaper**

Drager wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
If they are units, what is their unit type???

I am confused, do units have unit types, thought only models did.

Only models are given permission to be units by virtue of a unit type.

Though it seems claimed buildings are units, but they lack a unit type and are not a model. another GW oddity.

**HawaiiMatt**

Xenophon00 wrote:
Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

Actually, it says normally a unit cannot deep strike in a building. Using a webway portal is "normal". Likewise, that whole paragraph isn't about a building deep striking but rather deep striking troops and where into the building they should land.

**goblinzz**

Xenophon00 wrote:
Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

All this paragraph does is state that you should agree in advance where you deep-strike to if a building is already on the table. While it's great that you've gone and looked up the specific book, I don't think this adds much to the debate about deep striking the building itself.

**BlackTalos**

Which has been shown to be impossible in more ways than 1:

A) Though it is a Unit in the army, it is not a Model or has a Unit Type.

B) The DE Unit that would confer the Deep Strike Rule cannot embark into the fortification during deployment in Reserves.

**jeffersonian000**

Xenophon00 wrote:
Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

You mean "a unit cannot deep-strike into a building." We all know that. The debate is on whether or not a Building can arrive via Deep Strike.

SJ

**Xenophon00**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
Xenophon00 wrote:
Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

You mean "a unit cannot deep-strike into a building." We all know that. The debate is on whether or not a Building can arrive via Deep Strike.

SJ

Since the only way to deep strike a vehicle/building is if a character or square deep strike with it then it is relevant since you can not deep strike in a building

**jeffersonian000**

Xenophon00 wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
Xenophon00 wrote:
Yarium wrote:
Friend asked me last night about this in preparation for a tournament, and it sounds so crazy insane that I thought there must be something against it... but I can't find anything! Hoping for some guidance after having perused the BRB.

He wants to take a Dark Eldar Archon, give him a Webway Portal, and have him start the game inside a Fortification, and then hold that Fortification in reserves, so the Fortification deploys via Deep Strike. As far as I can tell, this is totally legit, because unlike scenery, a Fortification is taken just like another unit in your army and is deployed at the same time and "in the same fashion" as your army. Now, I think this is hilarious, and I want to see it happen - but common sense tells me otherwise. Still, since when has common sense had anything to do with the rules?

Any help?

To close the debae see the attached rules from Stonghold codex…. Basicaly, a unit cannot deep-stike in a building.

You mean "a unit cannot deep-strike into a building." We all know that. The debate is on whether or not a Building can arrive via Deep Strike.

SJ

Since the only way to deep strike a vehicle/building is if a character or square deep strike with it then it is relevant since you can not deep strike in a building

I'm guessing you haven't read the rules for deep striking a transport, or the rules for Web Way Portals, which allows a unit with a WWP to deep strike the transport the unit is embarked on. The only point of contention is whether or not a Building is a Transport. Per the BRB:

Buildings
Buildings of all types use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules. The main difference between buildings and actual vehicles is that they can’t move, they can be controlled by either side and units from either side can embark upon them.

SJ