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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
bitethythumb wrote:


I would have to disagree, a lot of their lore is great and still great and their models are superior to most others (seriosuly which company produces anything better) ....


Perry Miniatures. Better quality, better priced, better everything.


Perry miniatures do better space knights and griffon riders? Sign me up!


I stopped buying or even reading new fluff around the release of the Newcrons. I would rather keep my fond memories, and delve deeper into the FFG roleplay supplements, than follow the canon. That said, I'm willing to read some of the End Times and Age of Sigmar fluff and/or novels to see how I like them. They will never be 'Real Warhammer' to me, but they might be fun.

   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





For me, it has to be an even balance between fluff, gameplay and models. Each one has to be really good. If one's lacking, I just can't do it.
GW used to have excellent fluff, but it's become a parody of its self lately. Their rules are horrible. But they do make really good minis. Unfortunately, for me, that just doesn't cut it anymore. They're missing 2 out of 3.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

GW's stuff is incredibly derivative, and when I first encountered it, it was enjoyable. You could see (and play) aspects of Aliens, Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers and a bunch of other stuff. The orc fluff was laugh-out-loud hilarious to read.

Now, it seems trite, possibly because GW is trying to pass it off as their own unique creation - and that they're doing a poor translation of what they are copying (and it's too damn expensive).

I like about 2 out of every 3 models GW makes (for 40K), but their pricing has just put it out of my reach, and now their rules turnover is pushing me away from keeping up with the books as well - I had bought every edition of 40K up until 7th came out (though I'd only played Rogue Trader, 2nd, 5th and 6th), and then I stopped dead on buying minis or rules.

Thankfully, I had not gotten too deep in to Warhammer when they nuked it - just some Mantic undead, Isle of Blood and a couple boxed set to expand my elf and count army. Which is all perfectly usable with Kings of War or the 8th edition rulesbook I have that is in practically mint condition.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




@Talys.
The ONLY GOOD reason for selling a product is to meet its primary function.

Minatures are to be assembled and painted .

Rule sets are instructions to play the game as intended by the game designers.

And army lists are to provide enough structure/balance for the context of the game play .

Art and background narrative is to inspire customer to buy stuff.

Some people may buy the product for umpteen reasons other than the primary function.

However,just because some people only use the bases out of the boxes of minatures to play games with.
Should not mean that GW plc should just give up on the quality of minatures should they?

By the same reasoning , just because some people use army books for painting and assembly guides.
Does not mean that GW should let the rules and army list quality slide to where the games are nearly unplayable, and often not fun to play.

IF the quality of the rules and army lists were the same level as the minatures GW plc sell.NO ONE would complain.

However, if the quality of the minatures was as poor as the rules and army lists GW plc sell, NO ONE would buy anything.

ALL of the aspects of the hobby are equally important.I wish GW plc would acknowledge that.






This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/08 16:52:02


 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






*Shrug*

I can see both sides - I buy a lot of Reaper miniatures, but their rules are... not great.

Mind you, those rules aren't $50, either....

I buy Mantic miniatures - their rules are great... but their miniatures are not terrific. (With exceptions - the Lich King is one of the best lichs that I have ever seen, and the Mincer is just plain good fun.)

But at least their miniatures are affordable.

Right now... GW rules are crap, and the minis, while decent, are not worth what GW is charging.

AoS has the worst of both - I do not like either the minis or the rules, so have no investment in the game - even with free rules.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Painting Within the Lines






 TheAuldGrump wrote:
*Shrug*

I can see both sides - I buy a lot of Reaper miniatures, but their rules are... not great.

Mind you, those rules aren't $50, either....

I buy Mantic miniatures - their rules are great... but their miniatures are not terrific. (With exceptions - the Lich King is one of the best lichs that I have ever seen, and the Mincer is just plain good fun.)

But at least their miniatures are affordable.

Right now... GW rules are crap, and the minis, while decent, are not worth what GW is charging.

AoS has the worst of both - I do not like either the minis or the rules, so have no investment in the game - even with free rules.

The Auld Grump



the world would not function if we all agreed, disagree on AoS but respect your valid opinion.... what does your name mean, I just the way it rolls of my tongue
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Auld is archaic Gaelic dialect for Old. (As in Auld Lang Syne or Rare Auld Times.) an alternate would be Oulde or Ould.

Grump, is well, a grumpy person.

I have had the nickname for a long time, since a character in Changeling: the Dreaming, or a bit before.

I will admit that part of what annoys me about AoS is that I can see it killing the company - and I actually used to like GW games and minis.

I do not believe that it can sustain the niche that Warhammer occupied.

Hell, I do not believe that it can occupy the space that Warhammer Quest used to occupy, let alone Mordheim.

Some of the GW minis are still excellent - but then you get things like a giant eagle with a trailer hitch. Or an undead engine that was greatly improved when somebody turned it into a carousel. (Not joking - Tin Racer did an awesome job of it. But then the leader of his Vampire army is about ten years old when she was turned into a vampire....)

And, over all, I think that GW have priced themselves beyond the elasticity of their market.

When push comes to shove, they are selling one inch tall plastic toys for playing games with - and there is a limit to what people are willing to pay for toy soldiers.

I reached that point three years ago - the last GW purchase I made was some plastic terrain kits at half price when a store was closing. (GW still makes some excellent terrain.)

But it was as much the rules as it was the prices - I am a wargamer.

Strategy and tactics should be important - but with the last edition of Warhammer it seemed that much of the planning had instead been handed over to the gods of the dice rolls.

So, I swapped to Kings of War - which is all about the strategy and tactics. (Like Age of Sigmar the rules can fit on a very few pages, and can be found for free on the Mantic site.)

Warhammer was a large unit tactical game - AoS is a small scale skirmish game that... has some serious issues.

I think that it really was aimed at kids under the age of fifteen.

And I do not think that is a sustainable audience. The target audience has other things to play - from Magic the Gathering to video games.

Hell, I played games with more complex rules when I was fifteen. (I have been a wargamer since the seventies - I started with Napoleonics.)

I buy miniatures to paint and to play games with. I play fantasy role playing games, which gives me a lot of use for a wide range of toys.

Fantasy wargaming gives me a theme for larger numbers of miniatures - but the rules are an important part of that.

Warhammer attracted me because of the pseudo Thirty Years War German aesthetic that they went with.

I like blackpowder fantasy.

The rules used to be adequate - not the best, but far from the worst. All the army lists were in one book, while all the rules were in another.

But the setting was always the best part of the game - and that setting has done been blowed up.

But I can still use my existing armies because there are games where the setting does not matter nearly as much. But the rules are more than just 'adequate'.

So, we are playing games in the Warhammer setting, using the Kings of War rules.

In a month or two one of the players is getting a Nature army from the KoW 2 Kickstarter.

I am getting Abyssals from the same Kickstarter.

And nobody has ever been all that hung up on where the minis came from - GW was convenient because it was easy to buy large units of plastic toy soldiers.

And now they are dropping the toy soldiers that we liked.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
 
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