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There have always been references to the WHFB world being linked to the 40k universe.
Still remember an old WD WHFRPG mission where you party has to fight an Ambull (RT era monster) who had gotten to the world via a warp tunnel.
2nd Edition Chaos Marine Codex, rules for N'Kari, a Slannesh Demon Prince that fights Tyrion and Teclis several times. It even mentions in his history that he comes from a primitive world that has been resisting chaos invasions and is located at the center of a violent warp storm.

At first, I thought it was going hardcore 40K with the Emperor-ization of Sigmar. But the other developments make me think that they are moving the exact opposite direction, even if the Sigmarites are fantasy equivalent of Space Marines clearly.

The similarities kind of dry up after the Sigmarines. Slaanesh imprisoned by elves? Gork and Mork now combined? The Chaos gods seem to be lesser in this universe than in the 40K universe. I mean seriously, Slaanesh was too glutted over a handful (comparatively) of souls from the destruction of the old world to fight off some new Elven gods? If anything, GW is using AoS as an opportunity to finally have their fantasy line stand on its own instead of hinting at a shared universe like they have done all these years.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
At first, I thought it was going hardcore 40K with the Emperor-ization of Sigmar. But the other developments make me think that they are moving the exact opposite direction, even if the Sigmarites are fantasy equivalent of Space Marines clearly.

The similarities kind of dry up after the Sigmarines. Slaanesh imprisoned by elves? Gork and Mork now combined? The Chaos gods seem to be lesser in this universe than in the 40K universe. I mean seriously, Slaanesh was too glutted over a handful (comparatively) of souls from the destruction of the old world to fight off some new Elven gods? If anything, GW is using AoS as an opportunity to finally have their fantasy line stand on its own instead of hinting at a shared universe like they have done all these years.

You are using fluff from AoS as justification for why 40K and AoS would not be combined when AoS was built upon kicking decades of existing fluff out the window? Really?

It previously was impossible to field multiple Chaos gods in the same army. DA and SW the same thing.

If there is one thing that GW has shown is a willingness to stretch and ignore previous fluff in order to sell models. Nothing accomplishes that further than an end point of "we are a model company and you can use any of our models to play our "game"."

If we do get a AoS style reboot of the 40k universe and rules I'm very interested in how FW handle it for the HH line. FW hadn't invested any real effort in Fantasy over and above a handful of models in years, yet they are completely tied up in their own 30k universe that opperates to the side of GW's 40k and makes a decent profit selling models to a small group of mostly veteran players. Also FW directly interact with a wide cross section of the 30k player base at least once a quarter so they should have a very good idea of what their core customer base wants.

Will FW embrace a simplied ruleset, so will they carry on as is, or would they even be allowed to? Afterall if the Fantasy ruleset was to be developed in the future by FW then wouldn't most of the fantasy players who are unhappy with AoS be happy with that?

 Talys wrote:
But then what happens to the Dwarves? Do they get Squatted? Or do Squats get Dwarfed?

According to the original 40K:

WHFB took place on a world where the Eldar, Squats, Orcs, and Humans had degenerated and lost all of their technology, only retaining the occasional "Psyker" who was now called a "Sorcerer" or "Wizard," and the occasional worshipper of one of the Chaos Gods, or The Emperor as a "Priest/Cleric."

So.. the Squats got Dwarfed.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

Nope, both were released in 83/84.

I was there (I was at the GW/Citadel Booth at the Earl's Court Toy show in early 1984 for the official release of the game/miniatures).

MB

Shotgun wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
At first, I thought it was going hardcore 40K with the Emperor-ization of Sigmar. But the other developments make me think that they are moving the exact opposite direction, even if the Sigmarites are fantasy equivalent of Space Marines clearly.

The similarities kind of dry up after the Sigmarines. Slaanesh imprisoned by elves? Gork and Mork now combined? The Chaos gods seem to be lesser in this universe than in the 40K universe. I mean seriously, Slaanesh was too glutted over a handful (comparatively) of souls from the destruction of the old world to fight off some new Elven gods? If anything, GW is using AoS as an opportunity to finally have their fantasy line stand on its own instead of hinting at a shared universe like they have done all these years.

You are using fluff from AoS as justification for why 40K and AoS would not be combined when AoS was built upon kicking decades of existing fluff out the window? Really?

It previously was impossible to field multiple Chaos gods in the same army. DA and SW the same thing.

If there is one thing that GW has shown is a willingness to stretch and ignore previous fluff in order to sell models. Nothing accomplishes that further than an end point of "we are a model company and you can use any of our models to play our "game"."

Well, considering the OP used fluff to justify the merging of the two, why wouldn't I use fluff to point to the opposite???

I think you are grossly underestimating GW's commitment to the 40K universe fluff. They've built their empire on that fluff. It's one of the big reasons 40K is their top seller by a mile, and its the reason Black Library exists. WH Fantasy's fluff was advanced to an end point and rebooted because Fantasy wasn't anywhere close to the seller 40K is, and had more or less stalled from a storytelling perspective, so GW had nothing really to lose by throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I simply do not see them doing that with the 40K universe (unless sales suddenly tank for an extended period of time).

So while the two games will share similarities like they always have, I think AoS has actually widened the gap by having their own Fantasy version of the Emperor and his Marines.

They won't touch the background, but from a rules, how you buy into the game and model release perspective I can see GW swapping to the AoS model.

Ugh, kill my Skaven now :(

I am sorry to say that this thread is wrong and the OP is making an incorrect assumption. He thinks Games Workshop will continue to make fantasy games in the future. This will only happen if AoS becomes a completely unprecedented success. If people start spending half of their GW budget on fantasy minis again, we might see some attempt to keep Fantasy going as a simple sword&sorcery "skin" for 40k, the Heretic/Hexen to 40K's Doom.

But if AoS does not capture the hearts and minds of the entire world and fails to spark a revolution that changes gaming forever, then AoS is simply the swan song of Warhammer Fantasy. They ended WHFB with a bang, now they're going to end it again with a whimper. But it just isn't practical for GW to continue on as a company split between two genres of fiction. Why try to satisfy two overlapping fan bases when you can just have one fan base and tell them exactly what to buy all of the time? Why risk making a kit or update for fantasy when you know that the 40K players and the people who play both games aren't going to buy it? Why compete against yourself?

In a few years AoS will be gone, as will most 40K factions. Players will no longer choose their own units. You'll have the Eldar, Space Marines, Orks and Chaos. Each one will have a couple of different formations to choose from. For example, the simplest marine detachment will be like this: 12 tactical squads, 1 Captain, 1 Librarian, 1 Techmarine, 1 Apothecary, 12 tactical squads, a mandatory rhino/drop pod for every squad, 12 tactical squads, 1 devastator squad, 6 land raiders, 12 tactical squads, 1 assault squad and 6 predators. All wargear and upgrades will be pre-assigned but you get to choose whether the captain has a sword or a power fist (this will be purely cosmetic.) The Eldar will have a formation that's just sixty wraithknights.

Why not.
But at the rule side 40k is at the high end while AoS is at the opposite.

Not really, that would take Workshops current issue with self harm into the realm of sticking your head in the wood chipper whilst trying to clip your toenails with a chainsaw.

40k makes money, WHFB doesn't or least to the degree GW would like, so an attempted reboot to WHFB into AoS seems an acceptable risk, meddling with your main cashcow not so much.

BeAfraid wrote:

 notprop wrote:

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

Nope, both were released in 83/84.
I was there (I was at the GW/Citadel Booth at the Earl's Court Toy show in early 1984 for the official release of the game/miniatures).

You must have your memories mixed up. Rogue Trader was released in '87. WHFB3rd edition was released in '87 as well. WHFB1 was '83.

All easily verified via google, checking your books or checking scans of the books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also can't see AOS and 40k merging. They still make solid money off 40k Codices, Datafaxes, Dataslates, etc etc.

Selling the rules for 40k is still too much of a profit source to go the AOS route.

 Galef wrote:
It looks to me that GW is taking steps to merge 40K and Fantasy to create a system like WarmaHordes. That is, 2 games systems that are separate, but compatible. Even though the rules for AoS look nothing like 40k, since the rules are free, updating them often is not so out hard to imagine.

Warmachine and Hordes are not really separate games. They are the same game with different branding on the side and two rulebooks that are mostly the same, but with some rules missing from each. Someone in another thread said that they are that way for licensing reasons - they don't have to pay one of the Warmachine creators royalties for things with things with Hordes written on the side or some such.

I think even if AoS is a hit they'll probably keep the systems different. It's probably better for them to have two systems that can appeal to slightly different players than two competing for exactly the same hobby dollars. I can't imagine it'd be that hard to draw up a Space Marine stat block to put in a White Dwarf for use with Age of Sigmar, though!

BeAfraid wrote:

 Talys wrote:
But then what happens to the Dwarves? Do they get Squatted? Or do Squats get Dwarfed?

According to the original 40K:

WHFB took place on a world where the Eldar, Squats, Orcs, and Humans had degenerated and lost all of their technology, only retaining the occasional "Psyker" who was now called a "Sorcerer" or "Wizard," and the occasional worshipper of one of the Chaos Gods, or The Emperor as a "Priest/Cleric."

So.. the Squats got Dwarfed.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

Nope, both were released in 83/84.

I was there (I was at the GW/Citadel Booth at the Earl's Court Toy show in early 1984 for the official release of the game/miniatures).

MB

notprop is correct about 40K being released years after Warhammer , since it was actually 1987 40k came out. As per the Lexicanum:

"The first rule book for the Warhammer 40,000 game, Rogue Trader was published in 1987 and written by Rick Priestley, and was quite different to future versions of the game. Largely a cross between Role Playing Games and Table Top Battle Games, rather than an out and out Table Top Battle Game, Rogue Trader contained much more background on the wider universe, races and technology found in the Warhammer 40k universe than later editions did, and for this reason is considered a prized collectors' piece.

The book is considered much less imperio-centric than later editions, as it employed a much broader spectrum of views within the narration than was common in future versions and proactively encouraged mixed faction forces."

From 40K Wiki:

"Warhammer 40,000 is a science fantasy tabletop war game set in approximately the year 40,000 AD, created by the British hobby company Games Workshop and first published in 1987."



Warhammer itself was released in 1982.

According to the original 40K:

WHFB took place on a world where the Eldar, Squats, Orcs, and Humans had degenerated and lost all of their technology, only retaining the occasional "Psyker" who was now called a "Sorcerer" or "Wizard," and the occasional worshipper of one of the Chaos Gods, or The Emperor as a "Priest/Cleric."

So.. the Squats got Dwarfed.

This ^ ^

There is a huge possibility that the Warhammer Fantasy planet is just one of the many forgotten or hidden by the warp planets, where strange and even bizzare events occur. It could be even in a different galaxy, far, far away This is the only relation I can see and let me explain why it can't be other way around.

According to AoS lore Sigmar opens a portal to a new World to establish a new Human realm (If i am wrong I guess I will be corrected). In that case he must build the Imperium out of medieval era and this is highly unlikely to be Holy Terra, simply because when the Emperor Unify Terra - we are already in some technological progress. Also, let's never forget that in the Ursh Cronicles, that Loken Reads in the Horus Heresy, is written abut a huge war between Merica (USA for sure) and the Great Ursh (use a little bit imagination and that's Russia for you). Yes, there are warlords and wizards mentioned, but this happens in a near future, probably 8K years from now own. There is no way that Sigmar is The Emperor so there is no way to say that WH40 are merged in any possible way.

The fluff would be very easy to merge. The only thing that'd need explaining is what happened to the different races. HE and WE became Eldar, DE became Dark Eldar, Warriors of Chaos became CSM, Empire became IG, Necrons...stay Necrons (They pretty much use the exact same fluff as the War in Heaven and them going to sleep took place long before the weaker races were born (bar Eldar). Necrons are the oldest still existing race in the universe...or rather the C'tan as I wouldn't call soul- and mindless automatons "alive".), Orks stay...Orks. Goblins...what happened to them? Ogre Kingdoms became Ogryn?

There are a few gaps to fill, but even a writing team as horrible as the one GW uses should be able to gap the gaps.

I could totally see 40k and AoS becoming combinable. Why not? Keep in mind that this doesn't mean that youd have to get rid of either ruleset. Both could use a, slightly different, ruleset yet you can still use all miniatures in both ranges. Not sure how that would work, but money always finds a way.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The fluff would be very easy to merge. The only thing that'd need explaining is what happened to the different races. HE and WE became Eldar, DE became Dark Eldar, Warriors of Chaos became CSM, Empire became IG, Necrons...stay Necrons (They pretty much use the exact same fluff as the War in Heaven and them going to sleep took place long before the weaker races were born (bar Eldar). Necrons are the oldest still existing race in the universe...or rather the C'tan as I wouldn't call soul- and mindless automatons "alive".), Orks stay...Orks. Goblins...what happened to them? Ogre Kingdoms became Ogryn?

There are a few gaps to fill, but even a writing team as horrible as the one GW uses should be able to gap the gaps.

I could totally see 40k and AoS becoming combinable. Why not? Keep in mind that this doesn't mean that youd have to get rid of either ruleset. Both could use a, slightly different, ruleset yet you can still use all miniatures in both ranges. Not sure how that would work, but money always finds a way.

You have some really good points, but if some of this happens there will be a lot of retcon. You can't transfer Dark Elves into Dark Eldar, simply because Evil Eldars is what you have after the Birth of Slaneesh. Also let's don't forget that Slaneesh does not exit in the current AoS lore. Correct me If I am wrong.

 DalinCriid wrote:
Also let's don't forget that Slaneesh does not exit in the current AoS lore. Correct me If I am wrong.

He exists, but he is presently in jail and most folks are assuming he's going to be phased out of the lore.

So the Eldars will reborn him from the Jail when their empire reaches it's zenith?
The whole Fantasy 40K unification still does not make any sense to me. I really prefer to keep the realms seperate

 DalinCriid wrote:

According to the original 40K:

WHFB took place on a world where the Eldar, Squats, Orcs, and Humans had degenerated and lost all of their technology, only retaining the occasional "Psyker" who was now called a "Sorcerer" or "Wizard," and the occasional worshipper of one of the Chaos Gods, or The Emperor as a "Priest/Cleric."

So.. the Squats got Dwarfed.

This ^ ^

There is a huge possibility that the Warhammer Fantasy planet is just one of the many forgotten or hidden by the warp planets, where strange and even bizzare events occur. It could be even in a different galaxy, far, far away This is the only relation I can see and let me explain why it can't be other way around.

According to AoS lore Sigmar opens a portal to a new World to establish a new Human realm (If i am wrong I guess I will be corrected). In that case he must build the Imperium out of medieval era and this is highly unlikely to be Holy Terra, simply because when the Emperor Unify Terra - we are already in some technological progress. Also, let's never forget that in the Ursh Cronicles, that Loken Reads in the Horus Heresy, is written abut a huge war between Merica (USA for sure) and the Great Ursh (use a little bit imagination and that's Russia for you). Yes, there are warlords and wizards mentioned, but this happens in a near future, probably 8K years from now own. There is no way that Sigmar is The Emperor so there is no way to say that WH40 are merged in any possible way.

I think they played around with the idea in the early days, but never really had any official canon that stated it that I know of, and the two never really were linked outside of some rewards in the early two big chaos books, such as chainswords. There was also a picture of some marines going after a rogue psyker in a medival setting, but that's about as close as it ever got that I saw. It's entirely probable, given GW's history with fluff that they might retcon everything, though.

I'm not sure I would like that.

Also, cut the guy some slack - I had never considered a merge, so I can't be the only one.

I've always held out hope that WHFB World was some isolated planet in the 40K galaxy cut off from the Imperium by warp storms and all that. This is because I want an army of Space Skaven. Those Martian guys don't count.

Relapse wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:

According to the original 40K:

WHFB took place on a world where the Eldar, Squats, Orcs, and Humans had degenerated and lost all of their technology, only retaining the occasional "Psyker" who was now called a "Sorcerer" or "Wizard," and the occasional worshipper of one of the Chaos Gods, or The Emperor as a "Priest/Cleric."

So.. the Squats got Dwarfed.

This ^ ^

There is a huge possibility that the Warhammer Fantasy planet is just one of the many forgotten or hidden by the warp planets, where strange and even bizzare events occur. It could be even in a different galaxy, far, far away This is the only relation I can see and let me explain why it can't be other way around.

According to AoS lore Sigmar opens a portal to a new World to establish a new Human realm (If i am wrong I guess I will be corrected). In that case he must build the Imperium out of medieval era and this is highly unlikely to be Holy Terra, simply because when the Emperor Unify Terra - we are already in some technological progress. Also, let's never forget that in the Ursh Cronicles, that Loken Reads in the Horus Heresy, is written abut a huge war between Merica (USA for sure) and the Great Ursh (use a little bit imagination and that's Russia for you). Yes, there are warlords and wizards mentioned, but this happens in a near future, probably 8K years from now own. There is no way that Sigmar is The Emperor so there is no way to say that WH40 are merged in any possible way.

I think they played around with the idea in the early days, but never really had any official canon that stated it that I know of, and the two never really were linked outside of some rewards in the early two big chaos books, such as chainswords. There was also a picture of some marines going after a rogue psyker in a medival setting, but that's about as close as it ever got that I saw. It's entirely probable, given GW's history with fluff that they might retcon everything, though.

Yes, there are hints for this, but there are medieval worlds in the universe of 40K, that are either completely loyal and serve as astartes recruitment worlds, or are simply completely feral. On a second thought, I wont be all that disappointed if they merge the 2 Worlds, but I really want to keep thinking of Fantasy WH as a separate Planet or even Universe. If that happens, when Hasbro buys GW, they can even add Cybertron in the 40K universe Giant Robots fighting while we are doing our Great Crusade! P

destrucifier wrote:
I've always held out hope that WHFB World was some isolated planet in the 40K galaxy cut off from the Imperium by warp storms and all that. This is because I want an army of Space Skaven. Those Martian guys don't count.

Hrud? I stole an idea I saw of using Rat Ogres as Grotesques for my DE army with the fluff that a Hrud nest was raided for slaves. I saw a couple of years ago online somewhere a very nice army converted to represent Hrud.

Here is this that looks good:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/11/hrud-the-other-other-dangerous-aliens.html

Hrud and Skitarii are fine and all, but what we need are actual space skaven who worship the horned rat and build ridiculous war machines and shoot at their own troops in space like they literally just tunneled out of FB world into some planet filled with space ships.