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Anyone who is familiar with the fluff of 40k and the fluff of Warhammer (pre-AoS) knows that Warhammer is not supposed to be in the past of 40K. But that doesn't mean Warhammer & 40k are not part of the same "universe". Afterall, many of the "gods" are the same: all 4 Chaos gods, Gork & Mork, the Eldar/Elven Pantheon and even the "Old Ones" play a big part in both backgrounds.

Heck, Orcs were accidentally introduced to the Warhammer world because there were spores on the Old Ones "star vessels" when they arrived.

I have always had a theory that the Warhammer world existed simultaneously in the 40K universe, just shrouded by warpstorms or even deep within the Eye of Terror. You could even say that the Warhammer world was created after the Old ones gave up/lost the War in Heaven (40k battle between Eldar/"Krork"/Necrons/Old Ones long before humans existed on Earth). Age of Sigmar may be bridging that gap, with the world destroyed and the "8-9 realms" all harbouring the survivors. And, ya know, Fantasy Space Marines a la Celestials.

It looks to me that GW is taking steps to merge 40K and Fantasy to create a system like WarmaHordes. That is, 2 games systems that are separate, but compatible. Even though the rules for AoS look nothing like 40k, since the rules are free, updating them often is not so out hard to imagine.

 Galef wrote:
I have always had a theory that the Warhammer world existed simultaneously in the 40K universe, just shrouded by warpstorms or even deep within the Eye of Terror. .

That wasn't just your theory, FWIW... that was the story back when 40K was first created.

Over the years, they moved to separate the two, while just maintaining some similar elements.

"first step to merging with 40k".

Nothing to do with anything else that has happened in the last twenty five years, right?

* White Dwarf or Dragon magazine articles about playing 40k/WHFB with models from both games
* Realm of the Damned (hard cover books)
* Chaos Daemons as cross over models
* The 40k Soul Grinder shows up in WHFB

What an interesting and unique viewpoint.

What is it with people wanting to start threads with exactly the same content? This has been discussed in both the AoS threads.

Is it an ego thing? Or just an attention thing, like that stormlord lad who starts a thread everytime he has a thought in his head.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
What an interesting and unique viewpoint.

What is it with people wanting to start threads with exactly the same content? This has been discussed in both the AoS threads.

Is it an ego thing? Or just an attention thing, like that stormlord lad who starts a thread everytime he has a thought in his head.

Seriously? Wargamers don't possess a hive mind.Nor even those who frequent message boards. And even those who do frequent the same board don't read the same threads.

It's perfectly reasonable that the OP has never read a theory thread about this nor discussed it with another wargamer.

It's not ego, it's the fact that different people are, in fact, different people.

But then what happens to the Dwarves? Do they get Squatted? Or do Squats get Dwarfed?

I'm calling it "mageknight 3.0".

I'm calling it Warhammer: Siege.

That book and RT era supplements had scenarios and rules for 40k based armies and 'fantasy' units to indulge in battle.

Many times in the past feudal villeins held off land raiders packed with marines.

Hell yeah - just remembered a game of that where the Vampire leading my undead army used his ethereal ability to sneak into the central keep (the objective of the game) then exited pretty sharply after coming face to face with a Genestealer lord! Great days!

 eddieazrael wrote:
Hell yeah - just remembered a game of that where the Vampire leading my undead army used his ethereal ability to sneak into the central keep (the objective of the game) then exited pretty sharply after coming face to face with a Genestealer lord! Great days!

Hm... would undead biomass satisfy the Tyranids' hunger?

I was thinking this would be the case, but then it seems that the new WH-AOS miniatures are going to be upscaled to 32mm. This would seem, to me at least, to discourage the linking of these two universes.

 Accolade wrote:
I was thinking this would be the case, but then it seems that the new WH-AOS miniatures are going to be upscaled to 32mm. This would seem, to me at least, to discourage the linking of these two universes.

Never stopped them before. GW know full well that people will go out and buy the new shiny version of their models, especially when a scale change renders the old ones obsolete. How many 40K players went out and bought new Terminators when they came out and it became apparent that the old ones looked stupid if you tried to mix and match?

Didn't the last edition of Warhammer pretty much say that they were in the same universe? That Grey Knight, Kaldor what's his face turns up as do the Skaven contact the Eldar, plus other things probably too (though I don't really bother with the game enough to check). Aye, though previous editions did include references to, along with things like the Necron codex suggesting that you could play games against Lizardmen for fun. =P

I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

It has never been confirmed that 40K or Fantasy. In fact, GW has made many efforts to separate the 2 systems.

However, with dwindling Fantasy sales and the success of their competitor, Privateer Press, I really think GW is giving serious consideration to merging their 2 main game systems.

I think this is a few years out, but I think the rules for AOS will slowly update and then a 40K expansion will release that makes the 2 games will suddenly compatible.

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

There were pictures in the old Rogue Trader days of marines, fighting Warhammer forces that were guarding unsanctioned psykers, or purging demons and tyranids from Warhammer style worlds.
Just went back to check on the Tyranid thing and I was wrong about that, it was a BL story.

Relapse wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

There were pictures in the old Rogue Trader days of marines, fighting Warhammer forces that were guarding unsanctioned psykers, or purging demons and tyranids from Warhammer style worlds.

Wasn't there also a wargear card in one of the earlier Warhammer sets that represented a bolter (or maybe it was a bolt pistol)?

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
I'm calling it "mageknight 3.0".

This pretty much sums up my feelings. Now it's just a matter of how much whiskey will be needed to dull the pain of that GW-branded knife sticking out of my back.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 eddieazrael wrote:
Hell yeah - just remembered a game of that where the Vampire leading my undead army used his ethereal ability to sneak into the central keep (the objective of the game) then exited pretty sharply after coming face to face with a Genestealer lord! Great days!

Hm... would undead biomass satisfy the Tyranids' hunger?

Bodies are bodies, Nids don't require no stinkin' soul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

There were pictures in the old Rogue Trader days of marines, fighting Warhammer forces that were guarding unsanctioned psykers, or purging demons and tyranids from Warhammer style worlds.

Wasn't there also a wargear card in one of the earlier Warhammer sets that represented a bolter (or maybe it was a bolt pistol)?

There was also the Albion campaign reward items(including a Powerfist), Mordheim Amazons(with renamed lasweapons), and the Chaos rewards in WHRPG 1st Ed including Chainswords, Bolters, and Bolt Pistols with none of the names changed.

After Realm of Chaos and the alluded to inclusion of fantasy in 40k, there was a meeting and it was made very clear the two should not, not ever, meet or be linked.

Fantasy was and presumably with AoS still is, entirely separate from 40k.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
After Realm of Chaos and the alluded to inclusion of fantasy in 40k, there was a meeting and it was made very clear the two should not, not ever, meet or be linked.

Fantasy was and presumably with AoS still is, entirely separate from 40k.

Once upon a time, Games Workshop supported tournament play. And today they don't, because they changed their corporate direction.

Once upon a time, Games Workshop published some books implying connections between 40k and Fantasy. Then they had a meeting and said, "No, really, these two universes are separate." After blowing up the world, possibly demoting Slaanesh or changing Slaanesh's icon, what else has GW changed?

A little kid picks up a 40k Space Marine and a WHFB gobber, and makes pew pew noises. How can GW deny this market?

Relapse wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

There were pictures in the old Rogue Trader days of marines, fighting Warhammer forces that were guarding unsanctioned psykers, or purging demons and tyranids from Warhammer style worlds.

There was fluff/pictures for backward planets and rules for black powder, bows and the like but no connection with WHFB.

There's allot of fluff in 40k about discovering worlds that have regressed tech so that's always been a thing but no cross over at all.

That's not to say people can't, it's their game after all.

40k's rules will soon look like AOS's. No points, simplified, silly.
It's my prediction that the next edition will go down the AOS rout.

 MWHistorian wrote:
40k's rules will soon look like AOS's. No points, simplified, silly.
It's my prediction that the next edition will go down the AOS rout.

Betcha a nickel that you're wrong.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
40k's rules will soon look like AOS's. No points, simplified, silly.
It's my prediction that the next edition will go down the AOS rout.

Betcha a nickel that you're wrong.

Really? 40k seems heading in that direction already.
I could be wrong of course. Just looking at current trends.

That's dependent on how well Age of Sigmar is received I'd think. That and there was a bit of a lead up to the new rules, rather than just taking the plunge. It could happen of course, ah, but not that I actually care as I haven't played any of their games in years.

Players around here that I know have been playing games of 40k using the Warmachine ruleset if that's anything to go by, though at least that's balanced...

The Division Of Joy wrote:
What an interesting and unique viewpoint.

What is it with people wanting to start threads with exactly the same content? This has been discussed in both the AoS threads.

Is it an ego thing? Or just an attention thing, like that stormlord lad who starts a thread everytime he has a thought in his head.

Yes, just noticed this. If everyone feels the sane, PM me and I will try to make amends. I dont do it for attention, I want to see how these ideas are answered.

You people realize that AoS is a prototype, right? GW is going to flesh it out later if the new minis sell really well. Otherwise Fantasy is now a "specialist" game which means it's going out the window after the release of one or two model lines and supplements.
If they keep it going then eventually AoS will snowball into a great big convoluted ordeal that requires you to cross-reference eight different rulebooks and supplements in order to play, just like 40K 2nd and 7th or FB 4th and 8th editions.

 notprop wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I'm not the most obsessive fluff monkey but where the heck was it ever suggested that the two games share a universe cos I can't remember anything like that in 25 years.

True they share a base system and because of that there were (many many years ago) books that had sections for each game, Siege an Realms of Chaos spring to mind but no shared fluff.

Also Fantasy predates 40k by many years, there's just no logical tie in, so from that perspective I'm gonna got right ahead and say the premise of the OP is batgak crazy.

There were pictures in the old Rogue Trader days of marines, fighting Warhammer forces that were guarding unsanctioned psykers, or purging demons and tyranids from Warhammer style worlds.

There was fluff/pictures for backward planets and rules for black powder, bows and the like but no connection with WHFB.

There's allot of fluff in 40k about discovering worlds that have regressed tech so that's always been a thing but no cross over at all.

That's not to say people can't, it's their game after all.

As was stated, though, there were rewards of chain swords and bolt pistols, so the idea was being courted on some level before the games grew apart.

 Galef wrote:
Anyone who is familiar with the fluff of 40k and the fluff of Warhammer (pre-AoS) knows that Warhammer is not supposed to be in the past of 40K. But that doesn't mean Warhammer & 40k are not part of the same "universe". Afterall, many of the "gods" are the same: all 4 Chaos gods, Gork & Mork, the Eldar/Elven Pantheon and even the "Old Ones" play a big part in both backgrounds.

Heck, Orcs were accidentally introduced to the Warhammer world because there were spores on the Old Ones "star vessels" when they arrived.

I have always had a theory that the Warhammer world existed simultaneously in the 40K universe, just shrouded by warpstorms or even deep within the Eye of Terror. You could even say that the Warhammer world was created after the Old ones gave up/lost the War in Heaven (40k battle between Eldar/"Krork"/Necrons/Old Ones long before humans existed on Earth). Age of Sigmar may be bridging that gap, with the world destroyed and the "8-9 realms" all harbouring the survivors. And, ya know, Fantasy Space Marines a la Celestials.

It looks to me that GW is taking steps to merge 40K and Fantasy to create a system like WarmaHordes. That is, 2 games systems that are separate, but compatible. Even though the rules for AoS look nothing like 40k, since the rules are free, updating them often is not so out hard to imagine.

Based on info from back in 1st edition, this was always the case...

There were also more gods, back in that edition...