Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Scrabb wrote:
Looking closer at the article after some posters mentioned it, the salary raise is also coming directly from profits, in addition to an unstated amount from the unstated budget of the CEO.


Less excited. Still have no idea why people quitting because those under them are getting a boon is 'evidence' that generous pay is bad.

Because they probably went to school for years to get the degrees which got them their current salaries. Then some unskilled uneducated worker suddenly is making almost as much as they are without having done anything to earn it.

So what? It's not a fething competition.

Its not?

 Frazzled wrote:
Its not?

everyone can just get ribbons for showing up, winning/performance does not matter., everyone would work for free, or happily work harder and obtain higher education even if they still made as much as people who had easier jobs with no prerequisites.


its like that yogurt guy said,

Do or do not, it does not matter, there is only try.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Because they probably went to school for years to get the degrees which got them their current salaries. Then some unskilled uneducated worker suddenly is making almost as much as they are without having done anything to earn it.

While not universally true, there were probably a fair number of "entry level" employees at Gravity, they made mention of one, who was "worried" about paying off student loans on only 40k per year (actually truth be told, in the Seattle area that may as well be below the poverty line, cost of living being what it is up there)

So, it's clear to me that Gravity wasn't chock full of "unskilled uneducated workers". Yes, it's only natural that someone who's been at the company for a longer period of time doesn't like the sudden increase in pay of the newbs. But to call them all uneducated and unskilled is quite a bit too far.

As for the last bit, I do agree... many of the newer employees hadn't done much to "earn" an increase in pay, but if those same people aren't producing for the company well enough, then they'd eventually be let go anyhow, so it all works out in the end.

I know I worked as hard in low paying jobs as I do now in my reasonably well paying job. I even went back to university while working full time to get (another) post graduate degree to advance my career (yay for bootstraps! ). There are and were plenty of people who will work hard or slack off regardless of the rewards on offer for their employment.

 easysauce wrote:


People will perform better if they know their performance output is related to reward inputs.

Out of curiosity, have you heard Daniel Pink speak on this topic?

It is fascinating.

 Easy E wrote:

 easysauce wrote:


People will perform better if they know their performance output is related to reward inputs.

Out of curiosity, have you heard Daniel Pink speak on this topic?

It is fascinating.

sort of in a very "the secret" or other psycho-motivational type speakers kind of way.

That being said, people are indeed influenced by and persuaded by him or any # of personalities/celebrities/gods/ect to do all sorts of things all the time because people motivate people.

Remember, my claim is not that humans are solely motivated by money, its just that money is defiantly a motivator and is generally proportional to the skills/ect its buying from the laborers.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Then some unskilled uneducated worker suddenly is making almost as much as they are without having done anything to earn it.

In the meantime that unskilled worker is doing menial drone work while the person who spent years in education is doing something much more interesting. That's a fair exchange in my view.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I know I worked as hard in low paying jobs as I do now in my reasonably well paying job.

I worked harder and 50% longer on minimum wage than I do today. Today I get nearly double the average salary and to be honest there has been long periods in my job where I may as well have been asleep for all I was expected to accomplish. I work in a profession that requires a high degree of technical skill and knowledge but I rarely work hard.

It's not just about hard work in your job right now. You worked hard to be able to do what you do though. You have skills that are in demand. Anyone can flip a burger. Anyone can answer a phone and take down a note. Anyone can do your standard minimum wage job. Not everyone can do high end IT work. Not anyone can forecast the weather. Not just anyone can do a myriad of other highly technical skills. Those who can, those who devoted themselves to learn it, those are the ones are are going to make the money.

Supply and Demand works in more then just the cost of goods.

 djones520 wrote:
It's not just about hard work in your job right now.

Working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week washing dishes is far harder than studying for a degree.

I don't care about the money, its nice but once over a certain point it becomes irrelevant; its job satisfaction that interests me.

 Psienesis wrote:

So what? It's not a fething competition.

Life is a competition

 Psienesis wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Scrabb wrote:
Looking closer at the article after some posters mentioned it, the salary raise is also coming directly from profits, in addition to an unstated amount from the unstated budget of the CEO.


Less excited. Still have no idea why people quitting because those under them are getting a boon is 'evidence' that generous pay is bad.

Because they probably went to school for years to get the degrees which got them their current salaries. Then some unskilled uneducated worker suddenly is making almost as much as they are without having done anything to earn it.

So what? It's not a fething competition.

Yes it is.

That is just getting straight down to Darwinism right there.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's not just about hard work in your job right now.

Working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week washing dishes is far harder than studying for a degree.

Um, No.
Is it physically tiring? Yes. Is it mentally demanding, requiring practice, patience, good work ethic to get a paper done the week before its due when everyone is partying? No. Yes, they work hard, but they dont do hard work.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Um, No.
Is it physically tiring? Yes. Is it mentally demanding, requiring practice, patience, good work ethic to get a paper done the week before its due when everyone is partying? No. Yes, they work hard, but they dont do hard work.

Eh, difficulty varies by person.

I could never do something like wash dishes for 12-14 hours, but back in undergrad I could bang out a 30 page research paper from the ground up in half that time; reliably earning A's.

 Desubot wrote:

Life is a competition

Of course, people often create competition where none needs to exist. By, for example, getting butthurt because someone got a bigger raise than you did.

 djones520 wrote:
Anyone can do your standard minimum wage job.

Hello, Minimum Wage worker here. I am in a position where my well being is threatened emotionally and physically every time I go in to work. At any time, I can be assaulted by a violent Client and I am often emotionally abused by them.

Please tell me how anyone can do my job, keep a cool temper, and then smile while attempting to teach these clients how to live in day to day society.

Like I said before, sounds like a problem of you not getting paid enough for your skills/job.
Flipping burgers isnt an aquired skill, drinking enough water while doing it is though.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Um, No.
Is it physically tiring? Yes. Is it mentally demanding, requiring practice, patience, good work ethic to get a paper done the week before its due when everyone is partying?

?? Getting a degree is not easy but then again it is also not especially difficult. Doing something repetitive and tedious for most of your waking life is extremely difficult. I have 2 degrees now and the first one I basically coasted through it, I didn't get a great mark but it was enough.

Doubtless people will argue that then "they should educate themselves" which is true to a degree but that costs a lot of money; money which many people simply don't have, especially someone working for what is less than a living wage.

Economic inequality is a great iniquity.

Student loans aren't particularly difficult to get. Often much easier the poorer you are. Plus community colleges are pretty darn cheap for how much they can improve your employability. ''School is expensive'' really isn't much of an excuse.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Student loans aren't particularly difficult to get. Often much easier the poorer you are. Plus community colleges are pretty darn cheap for how much they can improve your employability. ''School is expensive'' really isn't much of an excuse.

Usually I find for people that aren't just coming out of high school it is more difficult, and usually money is only a part of it. Time tends to be the bigger problem for many I imagine. If you have kids it can be even more problematic. If you have a dog even more so, as it is assumed you like your dog.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's not just about hard work in your job right now.

Working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week washing dishes is far harder than studying for a degree.

I don't care about the money, its nice but once over a certain point it becomes irrelevant; its job satisfaction that interests me.

Don't forget the $100,000 in school loans you are paying off.

 Ahtman wrote:

Usually I find for people that aren't just coming out of high school it is more difficult, and usually money is only a part of it. Time tends to be the bigger problem for many I imagine. If you have kids it can be even more problematic. If you have a dog even more so, as it is assumed you like your dog.

This is more accurate than you'd realize, based on my own personal experience of CCs.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's not just about hard work in your job right now.

Working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week washing dishes is far harder than studying for a degree.

I don't care about the money, its nice but once over a certain point it becomes irrelevant; its job satisfaction that interests me.

Don't forget the $100,000 in school loans you are paying off.

I already paid mine off.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Student loans aren't particularly difficult to get. Often much easier the poorer you are. Plus community colleges are pretty darn cheap for how much they can improve your employability. ''School is expensive'' really isn't much of an excuse.

I could make barely enough to survive without government help or I could make barely enough to survive while paying off student loans for the next 20 years. Getting boned no matter how you look at it.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Student loans aren't particularly difficult to get. Often much easier the poorer you are. Plus community colleges are pretty darn cheap for how much they can improve your employability. ''School is expensive'' really isn't much of an excuse.

I could make barely enough to survive without government help or I could make barely enough to survive while paying off student loans for the next 20 years. Getting boned no matter how you look at it.

Assuming you aren't in a job that pays well that you got because of those student loans.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's not just about hard work in your job right now.

Working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week washing dishes is far harder than studying for a degree.

I don't care about the money, its nice but once over a certain point it becomes irrelevant; its job satisfaction that interests me.

Don't forget the $100,000 in school loans you are paying off.

I already paid mine off.

Good for you (I did too-best thing!) . Now how do you feel about your loans if someone who didn't got paid just a hair less than you?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Student loans aren't particularly difficult to get. Often much easier the poorer you are. Plus community colleges are pretty darn cheap for how much they can improve your employability. ''School is expensive'' really isn't much of an excuse.

I could make barely enough to survive without government help or I could make barely enough to survive while paying off student loans for the next 20 years. Getting boned no matter how you look at it.

Assuming you aren't in a job that pays well that you got because of those student loans.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. There is that chance where you wont even be able to find a job in the field you just spent 4 years of your life learning about.

Worth it!

 Desubot wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

So what? It's not a fething competition.

Life is a competition

And you're all losing!

 Grey Templar wrote:

Assuming you aren't in a job that pays well that you got because of those student loans.

I studied political science, philosophy, and economics at one of the best schools in the country.

My first job out of college was working as a canvasser for Greenpeace, after that I worked as a personal trainer, and after that I took over several managerial positions at the same gym because I convinced the owner that they were redundant. I didn't get a job in a field I had actually been educated for until after I got my PhD, 5 years after undergrad.

This is not unusual. I know plenty of people who studied accounting, finance, engineering, or the like who don't even catch a glimpse of their field until several years after graduation. This is largely due to the curse of "entry level" positions that require up to 5 years of industry experience. Or, to be more accurate, "Talk to us after you've been an unpaid intern (read: bitch) for a while.".

 Frazzled wrote:
Now how do you feel about your loans if someone who didn't got paid just a hair less than you?

I don't really care considering I would be doing a much more interesting job. If they were doing the same job as me (and therefore have the same quals) then I would continue to be pissed off at the unfairness of a society where daddy's money allows people to take such huge shortcuts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dogma wrote:
I know plenty of people who studied accounting, finance, engineering, or the like who don't even catch a glimpse of their field until several years after graduation. This is largely due to the curse of "entry level" positions that require up to 5 years of industry experience. Or, to be more accurate, "Talk to us after you've been an unpaid intern (read: bitch) for a while.".

The older your quals are the harder it is to find a job as well, which makes things even better.

It took me 5 years to start working in my chosen field after I graduated and I was extremely lucky to get a foot in the door. Most of those years were spent unemployed or working gak jobs.

So you don't feel that those who have more rarer skills, work even when off of work and those who work the hardest at a company deserve more?