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Not even seriously hurt? I wouldn't call 17 staples in the head a minor injury. That's pretty severe, pistol whippings have killed people from the blunt force trauma of the metal cracking the skull and/or swelling of the brain which can occur later.
The officer is very lucky to be alive and I'm glad they charged that assailant with attempted murder.
He's a police officer and was treated and released. I don't know an ER in the country that doesn't double check everything for another first responder. Head wounds bleed freely, and stitches promote healing. I wouldn't want to go through what the guy went through, but the story itself said he wasn't admitted to the hospital and will recover fully. that's not a very serious injury.
And I think hitting a person with a gun, instead of shooting them with the gun, is the opposite of attempted murder. It's very much "I don't want to kill you." I"m sure he'll be charged fully and get what's due. The problem isn't what he's charged with, it's that he'll be getting a lousy plea deal and a high sentence.
As to the media. i see why the cops feel the need to walk on egg shells. in the right or wrong shooting some one armed not armed with 4 arms. it really doesn't matter. there will be people out making a fething ruckus causing more issues and ultimately ending the officers carrier weather or not they deserve it.
I'm a manager in the Federal Government. Every interaction I have with an employee has to be careful, because anything I say or do could lead to accusations of discrimination by that employee, or another. In many ways, I spend time "walking on eggshells." And you know what? Nowhere in my job description is the phrase "Expected to use lethal force when necessary."
Call me an idealist, but I think that we want people tasked with the decision of when to shoot and likely kill people in an altercation to be mindful, to be worried about the consequences. Because, and again, call me an idealist or a liberal or what have you, I think that killing people is an absolute last resort. That preventing deaths, not causing them, is the job of police. That, when the chips are down, being a first responder means putting yourself more at risk to protect people. And that even people that by policy could be killed don't always need to be. And that its a reasonably good thing.
While i agree. that they really do need to think VERY hard and fast about the use of lethal force. i dont think it should be BECAUSE of the threat of a media frenzy. Idealy the media wont blow gak up and miss report things to rile up the public but thats what they do for ratings now. and its a damn shame.
Not even seriously hurt? I wouldn't call 17 staples in the head a minor injury. That's pretty severe, pistol whippings have killed people from the blunt force trauma of the metal cracking the skull and/or swelling of the brain which can occur later.
The officer is very lucky to be alive and I'm glad they charged that assailant with attempted murder.
He's a police officer and was treated and released. I don't know an ER in the country that doesn't double check everything for another first responder. Head wounds bleed freely, and stitches promote healing. I wouldn't want to go through what the guy went through, but the story itself said he wasn't admitted to the hospital and will recover fully. that's not a very serious injury.
And I think hitting a person with a gun, instead of shooting them with the gun, is the opposite of attempted murder. It's very much "I don't want to kill you." I"m sure he'll be charged fully and get what's due. The problem isn't what he's charged with, it's that he'll be getting a lousy plea deal and a high sentence.
Luckily, he's not dead, or even seriously hurt. Maybe some training on options between "shoot a guy" and "get beat" is necessary?
BINGO!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/14 23:15:56
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
First off I want to state that I agree that cops have been utilizing lethal force on way to many calls when they don't have to. In Afghanistan, An active war zone, our ROE's were very strict and we could only shoot when fired upon or if they were pointing something like an RPG/RPK at us. SO why are cops allowed a lesser ROE on US Soil?
But with that said, if a cop pulls you over, orders you back into the car and then you proceed to approach in a hostile manner, you have sacrificed your rights as a non combatant and have escalated the situation to a confrontation. In this situation the cop should have drawn his side arm and ordered the man to the ground. If your goal is to beat up a cop you deserve to be shot. This isn't a bar fight, this isnt some civies beating each other up, this is a representative of the state/federal government and you have threatened them.
Also to whichever person said something along the lines of "They couldn't get into college and are just bullies" your both ignorant and wrong. I don't know how many times I faced that same stereotype when I was in the military. "your only in the Marines because you weren't smart enough for college". I scored in the 1300s on the old SATs and was accepted to a bunch of universities, I made the decision to serve my nation, as a lot of these guys made the decision to serve their states or federal government in a law capacity.
Its people like you that undermine the system when you think that civil servants only do what they are doing because they aren't as smart as you.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/08/14 23:19:44
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well they are cops, who are just those who couldnt get into college and have power complexes, who they deserve to die right? RIGHT?
Actually im pretty sure cops need to have some sort of degree to get hired.
At least in CAIIRc.
i could be wrong.
As to the media. i see why the cops feel the need to walk on egg shells. in the right or wrong shooting some one armed not armed with 4 arms. it really doesn't matter. there will be people out making a fething ruckus causing more issues and ultimately ending the officers carrier weather or not they deserve it.
That is what I hear, that cops are just the bullies of highschool who just wanted to continue bullying.
thats more of a myth perpetrated by people who dont like that cops caught them breaking laws.
if there is any predominant complex I have noticed in cops it is a tendency to masochism due to the sheer amount of abuse they have to deal with every day.
the guy at the DMV/hospital/school/ect gets to just ignore you and leave if you are being aggressive, violent, or abusive.
cops have to deal pretty much exclusively with people who are doing this, take it, and not do anything about it besides write a ticket or do the paper work to arrest someone (or risk significant harm or death in a violent arrest OFC)
on top of that, most cops I know keep it secret as much as they can, mostly because there is a significant social stigma against being a cop (ie the stigma that you are just a bully with powerlust) and many people will not be pals with them based on their profession alone. Its also not the safest thing to have people know at times unfortunately.
its just odd, our culture seems to glamorize thugs and demonize cops right now.
not that there cannot be thugs like robin hood and cops like samuel jacksons character from training day, but both would be exceptions not the rule.
Polonius wrote: He's a police officer and was treated and released.
Being a police officer isn't a factor in the seriousness of the injury. As for being treated and released, a broken arm qualifies if you go in, get an x-ray, and then the doctor sets the arm and puts a cast on it. Please don't be so dismissive about injuries because of phrasing.
2015/08/14 23:45:38
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
If you are released the same day your injury isn't that severe. If they let you go with a broken arm then it wasn't an awful break that would ruin your career and end your ability to use that hand. You are right that it doesn't have anything to do with career but it does have to do with what the hospital thinks. I've seen enough injuries that if they let you go then it isn't the worst that can happen. I knew a guy (a cop!) that was shot in the head. He didn't go home the same day. I'm sure he would trade a broken arm or stitches for, you know, being shot in the head.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
its just odd, our culture seems to glamorize thugs and demonize cops right now.
not that there cannot be thugs like robin hood and cops like samuel jacksons character from training day, but both would be exceptions not the rule.
Regarding the bolded...I don't know. Maybe its a regional thing. I have lived a good number of years now, and most cops I have ever had to deal with have been DBs, plain and simple. Especially in Maryland. Specific shout-out to the Howard County (MD) Police Dept and the Maryland State Troopers.
P.S. Its Denzel Washington. Samuel L. Jackson was not in the film Training Day.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 23:53:49
Polonius wrote: He's a police officer and was treated and released.
Being a police officer isn't a factor in the seriousness of the injury. As for being treated and released, a broken arm qualifies if you go in, get an x-ray, and then the doctor sets the arm and puts a cast on it. Please don't be so dismissive about injuries because of phrasing.
I don't think I'm being dismissive, and my reaction is not because of phrasing. "Serious injury" is usually defined as having a higher threshold, often involving a longer hospital stay or a loss of functioning extending for weeks.
And I mentioned that he was a cop because in my experience they get very good health care, making it unlikely that they wouldn't rule out other injuries.
its just odd, our culture seems to glamorize thugs and demonize cops right now.
not that there cannot be thugs like robin hood and cops like samuel jacksons character from training day, but both would be exceptions not the rule.
Regarding the bolded...I don't know. Maybe its a regional thing. I have lived a good number of years now, and most cops I have ever had to deal with have been DBs, plain and simple. Especially in Maryland. Specific shout-out to the Howard County (MD) Police Dept and the Maryland State Troopers.
And I mentioned that he was a cop because in my experience they get very good health care, making it unlikely that they wouldn't rule out other injuries.
I find the claim that someone would get better treatment at a hospital than another based on their occupation troubling.
its just odd, our culture seems to glamorize thugs and demonize cops right now.
not that there cannot be thugs like robin hood and cops like samuel jacksons character from training day, but both would be exceptions not the rule.
Regarding the bolded...I don't know. Maybe its a regional thing. I have lived a good number of years now, and most cops I have ever had to deal with have been DBs, plain and simple. Especially in Maryland. Specific shout-out to the Howard County (MD) Police Dept and the Maryland State Troopers.
P.S. Its Denzel Washington. Samuel L. Jackson was not in the film Training Day.
and by the same token, I have run into my fair share of great cops. I had a cop offer to help me find my dog when she slipped her leash. I had a neighbor who was a Cop and him and his wife would routinely check on my wife when I was either deployed or out on long training exercises. The list goes on and on. Yeah everyone has a different view of the police but keep in mind these guys have to deal with people every single day who hate them. I don't think anyone who has ever been pulled over for speeding or running a light has ever been polite and cordial to the cop.
Polonius wrote: He's a police officer and was treated and released.
Being a police officer isn't a factor in the seriousness of the injury. As for being treated and released, a broken arm qualifies if you go in, get an x-ray, and then the doctor sets the arm and puts a cast on it. Please don't be so dismissive about injuries because of phrasing.
I don't think I'm being dismissive, and my reaction is not because of phrasing. "Serious injury" is usually defined as having a higher threshold, often involving a longer hospital stay or a loss of functioning extending for weeks.
And I mentioned that he was a cop because in my experience they get very good health care, making it unlikely that they wouldn't rule out other injuries.
concussions are notoriously hard to diagnose and im a bit shocked they let him leave that day, usually the hospitals want to keep them for 24 hours for observation at the least. But regardless of the severity of the injury the fact remains that he not only took a side arm from a police officer, but he also struck him with intent to injure. He might not get attempted murder but you can bet he will get assault and battery with a deadly weapon, resisting arrest, and a bunch of other minor things, he will probably get 20-30 years.
And I mentioned that he was a cop because in my experience they get very good health care, making it unlikely that they wouldn't rule out other injuries.
I find the claim that someone would get better treatment at a hospital than another based on their occupation troubling.
He might have been referring to the Health care plan that most Police Departments offer. meaning that he would get a good doctor and not the bare minimum because of bad insurance.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/15 00:02:37
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
And I mentioned that he was a cop because in my experience they get very good health care, making it unlikely that they wouldn't rule out other injuries.
I find the claim that someone would get better treatment at a hospital than another based on their occupation troubling.
Well, First Responders tend to share a bit of a bond, and ER staff work with them a lot. (my sister-in-law is an ER nurse that used to be an EMT, and many techs are former Paramedics). Also, cops have good health insurance. An ER in Alabama (a state with 15% of people without health insurace) is keenly aware of thems that can pay.
It's possible that the cop got the same high quality care everybody gets. I'd wager that, at a minimum, the cop got great care.
A Birmingham police officer was assaulted in eastern Birmingham this morning when he pulled over a suspect for questioning.
Police say the robbery detective, a six-year-veteran of the force, stopped a maroon 2012 GMC Yukon in the 9100 block of Parkway East about 11:05 a.m. near the Roebuck Plaza. He approached the vehicle, and told the suspect to stay in the SUV while he waited for a marked unit for backup.
The driver got out of the vehicle despite the officer's demands, and began to question the detective about why he was being stopped. A tussle followed and the suspect assaulted the detective. Sources say the officer was pistol-whipped, but Lt. Theophilus Smith said he couldn't confirm that report.
The detective issued a plea for all available help over the police radio at 11:15 a.m. He detective was taken to UAB Hospital with injuries to the head. Police blocked off downtown intersections to make way for the detective's arrival via ambulance.
Smith said at 1 p.m. that the detective had been evaluated, was awake and visiting with his family. He is expected to make a full recovery, Smith said. He was admitted to the hospital, and is listed in stable condition.
Birmingham Police Officer Assaulted In Eastern Birmingham Lt. Theophilus Smith gives an update on a Birmingham Police officer who was assaulted in eastern Birmingham Friday shortly before noon. Police chased the SUV to a neighborhood about one mile away and set up a perimeter. Two suspects were taken into custody near Shady Wood Lane and Shady Wood Drive.
Police set up a perimeter and put nearby W.J. Christian School on lockdown. The lockdown has since been lifted.
Dozens of officers and U.S Marshals were on the scene. Tracking dogs were brought in to help search for the remaining suspect, who remains at large.
The suspects are being questioned at police headquarters. Authorities are expected to pursue attempted murder charges against the suspects.
"This incident underscores the danger that our officers and others experience everyday. I think about the recent murders of the Memphis and Shreveport police officers and recognize we too could have lost an officer today,'' Birmingham police Chief A.C. Roper told AL.com. "We ask the community to keep this officer and his family in your thoughts and prayers.
Updated to indicate the officer was not shot. Updated at 1:10 p.m. to add more information from police.
This says that the cop was admitted. It also pointed out: "He detective was taken to UAB Hospital with injuries to the head. Police blocked off downtown intersections to make way for the detective's arrival via ambulance."
So is this proof that because the Officer survived that all those shoot or die split second decisions we choose to believe are always the case are not as accurate as we want to think?
Did the suspect not kill the Officer because he too must "walk on egg shells," due to media scrutiny?
***Not entirely serious to be honest.***
However, with the gun apparently being the only defence Officers seem to be capable of in a zero standards police force it is entirely reasonable to assume that shooting is their only ability to enforce. Mayhaps it is time for police forces to invest in some better equipment that isn't surplus military. Oh, and training, much better training. For their safety and our safety. Its like some NCO gave a bunch of buck privates weapons and told them to go "soldier" somewhere over there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/15 00:36:17
2015/08/15 00:43:35
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
hotsauceman1 wrote: It is useful, that is how people think of cops, thats how ALOT of people see cops. Espcially anti-coppers
So are you saying you agree with it? And if you don't agree with it, why do you keep repeating it without any caveats or qualifications, like it's just a statement of fact?
1) If you have the opportunity to think "what will the media think about this" instead of "holy gak I'm gonna die feth feth I need to shoot before I'm fethed gak damn crap feth feth feth", then chances are pretty damn high that you didn't need to use deadly force to begin with.
2) Is it true that cops are being watch more closely than ever? That more people are filming them and recording their interactions? That the public is scrutinizing their actions and questioning their intentions, tactics, and standards? Yes they are, because we increasingly have the technology to do so and the public feels that they have a legitimate need to do so.
3) If the police unions have a problem with the fact that they are under increasing public scrutiny, then instead of complaining about the scrutiny they should focus on the actions and behavior that led to the public sentiment that the police needs to be held accountable.
AncientSkarbrand wrote: Hell even shoot the guy in the arm or leg or something. Nobody loses their mind on media over neutralizing shots, it's when the officer blatantly killed a man that was A) not dangerous or B) easily handled in a different fashion.
Real police work isn't an action movie. There are no "neutralizing shots." Most cops never shoot their guns in anger, so they rely on their basic training, which is to shoot for the center of mass.
There's really no other way to handle it. If you shoot, you shoot to kill.
Not to mention when looking at potential prosecution or defending against civil charges, anything other than shooting to kill is problematic. From a self-defense perspective, you're generally only shooting if you have a reasonable fear for imminent death or grievous bodily injury for yourself or someone else. If you have time to fire a warning shot or anything else other than shooting to kill, then it seems like maybe your use of force wasn't reasonable anymore, because the danger wasn't as imminent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/15 02:20:48
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/08/15 02:21:54
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
3) If the police unions have a problem with the fact that they are under increasing public scrutiny, then instead of complaining about the scrutiny they should focus on the actions and behavior that led to the public sentiment that the police needs to be held accountable.
I think alot of the public believes that the de facto mission of police departments is to "survey and arrest" rather than to "protect and serve".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/15 02:24:03
Polonius wrote: Call me an idealist, but I think that we want people tasked with the decision of when to shoot and likely kill people in an altercation to be mindful, to be worried about the consequences. Because, and again, call me an idealist or a liberal or what have you, I think that killing people is an absolute last resort. That preventing deaths, not causing them, is the job of police. That, when the chips are down, being a first responder means putting yourself more at risk to protect people. And that even people that by policy could be killed don't always need to be. And that its a reasonably good thing.
Perhaps you didn't read the thread title. This is no place for your reasonable arguments.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/08/15 02:44:43
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
1) If you have the opportunity to think "what will the media think about this" instead of "holy gak I'm gonna die feth feth I need to shoot before I'm fethed gak damn crap feth feth feth", then chances are pretty damn high that you didn't need to use deadly force to begin with.
2) Is it true that cops are being watch more closely than ever? That more people are filming them and recording their interactions? That the public is scrutinizing their actions and questioning their intentions, tactics, and standards? Yes they are, because we increasingly have the technology to do so and the public feels that they have a legitimate need to do so.
3) If the police unions have a problem with the fact that they are under increasing public scrutiny, then instead of complaining about the scrutiny they should focus on the actions and behavior that led to the public sentiment that the police needs to be held accountable.
I disagree with your first point. I've been in situations where it was literally life or death and the number of thoughts that can spool at a time like that can be pretty high.
Polonius wrote: Call me an idealist, but I think that we want people tasked with the decision of when to shoot and likely kill people in an altercation to be mindful, to be worried about the consequences. Because, and again, call me an idealist or a liberal or what have you, I think that killing people is an absolute last resort. That preventing deaths, not causing them, is the job of police. That, when the chips are down, being a first responder means putting yourself more at risk to protect people. And that even people that by policy could be killed don't always need to be. And that its a reasonably good thing.
Perhaps you didn't read the thread title. This is no place for your reasonable arguments.
I think it's rather obvious that the police union is playing the "poor cop can't do his job because people are actually paying attention to what we do now" card.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I think it's rather obvious that the police union is playing the "poor cop can't do his job because people are actually paying attention to what we do now" card.
B-b-but police unions are the good ones! They're not jack-booted thugs like the rest.
+1 for the image macro, by the by.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/15 02:50:53
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/08/15 03:59:12
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
Here's a few questions I honestly don't know the answer to. Why was the cop beaten instead of shot? Did the perp simply not want to shoot? Or did the magazine get separated from the gun and the perp was unable to shoot and chose to beat instead?
If someone's video shows the perp pulling the trigger then an attempted murder charge may well stick even if the gun had no bullets.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/08/15 04:00:41
5000pts 
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