good spacemarine stuff aginst necrons?

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**Glitcha**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

This doesn't work as well as it sounds. It's hard to cause enough wounds in melee to make them blow their LD 10 checks.

If you could get them into combat reliably, TH/SS terminators could do the trick.

You can't use terminators because you can't sweep with them. Also you can knock their leadership down from 10. You have to win combat. Assault centurions can make quick work of squad of necrons.

**ShadarLogoth**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

This doesn't work as well as it sounds. It's hard to cause enough wounds in melee to make them blow their LD 10 checks.

If you could get them into combat reliably, TH/SS terminators could do the trick.

Actually TH/SS Terms tend tend be the worst against Necrons, as the sacrifice the one thing other CC units have advantage on, Initiative. Pretty much every CC unit in the codex can take out TH/SS Terms on a point by point basis, and even Warriors fair well against them if they have an Olord in tow.

**Crazyterran**

Power maul/relic blade honour guard, if you want to tailor for necrons. Axes aren't bad either.

Shooting is weight of fire. The more saves you make him take, the more he will fail. Grav weapons are the premier for this. Kheres Assault cannons from forge world ruin Warriors.

**Yoyoyo**

Lightning Claws! Smash them with Vanguard!

Bonus points for both Enfeeble + Hammerhand for instant death on T4 units!

**Lammikkovalas**

Oh lol, I totally forgot about no sweeping advances, derp. Let's say TH/SS command squad then

**vipoid**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
Oh lol, I totally forgot about no sweeping advances, derp. Let's say TH/SS command squad then

Would you really want THs though? Seems odd to pick the only weapon that strikes after Necrons.

**skoffs**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

This doesn't work as well as it sounds. It's hard to cause enough wounds in melee to make them blow their LD 10 checks.

If you could get them into combat reliably, TH/SS terminators could do the trick.

If you're only planning on assaulting Warriors/Immortals, yeah, maybe. Against almost anything else, I got some bad news for you...

**Crazyterran**

If you want to spend an obscene amount of points on a close combat unit, to fight off necrons, Honor Guard with Relic Blades beat out command squads. Give the captain a hammer to fight the one model in their army that gets a 2+ save. Striking before wraiths, lych guard and whatever else is one of your main advantages, even better if you are wounding on 2s or 3s.

Doesn't reduce their RP rolls... But going first will likely mean in more wounds for them to roll against...

A ten man honor guard squad with relic blades get 4 attacks each on the charge (2, banner, charge). 36 rolls from the basic honor guard, 18 hits, 12 wounds v T5, 1 dead wraith/2 dead lychguard. The champion contributes 5 attacks, roughly 3 hits, 2 wounds, and maybe another one dead. If you charge anything that is not a wraith or a shield lychguard, it evaporates.

Ultramarines tactics would give you 6 more hits, 4 more wounds on average. With maybe another dead. A chaplain would give you whatever he does plus 9 hits, 6 wounds, one dead.

Or take the Lord Macragge, he gets to do his fisting at I5, and with 7 attacks on the charge at ws6 s8 and i5...

Of course, a 10 man honor guard squad with relic blades and a banner is 385pts. Then you need a ride, and should get a character to go with them... 285 for tHe LM, 90 for the chaplain and 250 for the crusader, that's 1110 points. Would be fun to run, though...might give it a try...

Of course, a 5 man command squad, on bikes, with a hammer and shield and an apothecary is 300 points. 375 if you give them grav guns. 250 for the bike chapter master, then you need to give them some protection of the telepathy variety, so a conclave on bikes for another 345.... So 970, 1185 if you include another bike master (sans SE, of course)

Close combat is expensive!

**Lammikkovalas**

vipoid wrote:
Lammikkovalas wrote:
Oh lol, I totally forgot about no sweeping advances, derp. Let's say TH/SS command squad then

Would you really want THs though? Seems odd to pick the only weapon that strikes after Necrons.

Of course you don't want to strike after the necrons but if negating the armour saves and lowering RP rolls is your goal then THs are pretty much your only option. Assault Centurions could be better though because they get to strike before the necrons but they don't get to sweep either.

**skoffs**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Lammikkovalas wrote:
Oh lol, I totally forgot about no sweeping advances, derp. Let's say TH/SS command squad then

Would you really want THs though? Seems odd to pick the only weapon that strikes after Necrons.

Of course you don't want to strike after the necrons but if negating the armour saves and lowering RP rolls is your goal then THs are pretty much your only option. Assault Centurions could be better though because they get to strike before the necrons but they don't get to sweep either.

Wouldn't that heavily depend on what you want to kill?
If just Warriors/Immortals/Flayed Ones/etc., I could have sworn marines had decent access to S8 AP3.
If anything T5 3+/3++, well... why not just tie them up in combat instead?
I mean, so long as they're not packing Warscythes or Rods Of Covenant they shouldn't be too killy. (though, yes, keep your regular 3+ guys away from hyperphase swords, too).
If they're playing Decurion they'll have no access to ObSec. Just bog them down and win by objectives?

**vipoid**

Lammikkovalas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Lammikkovalas wrote:
Oh lol, I totally forgot about no sweeping advances, derp. Let's say TH/SS command squad then

Would you really want THs though? Seems odd to pick the only weapon that strikes after Necrons.

Of course you don't want to strike after the necrons but if negating the armour saves and lowering RP rolls is your goal then THs are pretty much your only option. Assault Centurions could be better though because they get to strike before the necrons but they don't get to sweep either.

Even then, THs and SSs seem counter-productive. Just about anything that had the AP to justify the SSs (Wraiths, Lychguard, Praetorians, Lords etc.) are also T5 and hence the THs won't be lowering their RPs.

**NorseSig**

The things I find useful against necrons are high str/ID weapons (reducing that save by -1 helps a lot) forcing a lot of saves (thunderfire cannon for example), lots of melta and grav, and fair number of assault units are useful. Ways to take out their mobility can help too depending on what they are running. Necrons are tough nuts to crack with their fnp on steroids and their mass gauss. Learning the highest priority targets is also very important. As an IH player I am quite envious of their superior survivability and I openly admit I have trouble with them.

**Renesco P. Blue**

I want to suggest the humble heavy bolter. It's not the most competitive choice overall, but against necrons ap4 ignores warriors armor. the extra 12" of range keeps you out of almost all necron shooting they heap on wounds and they are cheap to add to almost anything. a squad of double heavy bolter landspeeders is cheap and can chase any unit around the table all game making a nuisance of itself. and the best thing is if anything gets too close, they can scoot back 12" and keep shooting.

**Slayer-Fan123**

What Necron player isn't using cover or a Ghost Ark for their Warriors? Heavy Bolters are literally one of the worst ideas suggested here, and that says something because some people think you can still easily sweep Necrons in combat when they will possibly charge at YOU thanks to Relentless.

**DaftPunk**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Necron player isn't using cover or a Ghost Ark for their Warriors? Heavy Bolters are literally one of the worst ideas suggested here, and that says something because some people think you can still easily sweep Necrons in combat when they will possibly charge at YOU thanks to Relentless.

Jumps down Renesco P. Blues throat for suggesting heavy bolters but adds nothing of constructive value himself to the thread.

Well done sir, well done.

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Necron player isn't using cover or a Ghost Ark for their Warriors?

Me!!!

I'll use cover when it's available, but often I don't simply because I want to be firing with my warriors and cover blocks LoS to their target.

Also, I don't own any Ghost Arks.

**skoffs**

... Why are people so concerned with killing Warriors, of all things?
With the amount of T5 / 3+ / 3++ units your average competitive Necron list has, I would have thought THAT would have been priority number one to figure out how to deal with. Anything that can kill those will naturally also be good at taking out the least worrying units in their army as well, no?

**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
... Why are people so concerned with killing Warriors, of all things?
With the amount of T5 / 3+ / 3++ units your average competitive Necron list has, I would have thought THAT would have been priority number one to figure out how to deal with. Anything that can kill those will naturally also be good at taking out the least worrying units in their army as well, no?

Yeah - especially since the tougher units are also the ones that typically deal more damage too.

**Slayer-Fan123**

DaftPunk wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Necron player isn't using cover or a Ghost Ark for their Warriors? Heavy Bolters are literally one of the worst ideas suggested here, and that says something because some people think you can still easily sweep Necrons in combat when they will possibly charge at YOU thanks to Relentless.

Jumps down Renesco P. Blues throat for suggesting heavy bolters but adds nothing of constructive value himself to the thread.

Well done sir, well done.

Okay, fine.
1. Over saturation of Vindicators, though cover makes them MUCH less effective
2. Grav Centurions in pods, dropped on a turn you KNOW you can fire without much retaliation
3. Relic Blade or Power Swords if you want melee, since there's really no 2+ saves to worry about. Lightning Claws work here too
4. Trying to play the objective game?

Those are about the best tools you got. Grav and Plasma Bikers are still great too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Necron player isn't using cover or a Ghost Ark for their Warriors?

Me!!!

I'll use cover when it's available, but often I don't simply because I want to be firing with my warriors and cover blocks LoS to their target.

Also, I don't own any Ghost Arks.

Why wouldn't you own one of the best transports in the game? Seriously, they're better than the equivalent amount of Warriors to give your current Warriors an awesome boost.

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Why wouldn't you own one of the best transports in the game? Seriously, they're better than the equivalent amount of Warriors to give your current Warriors an awesome boost.

Because, astonishing at this may sound, I can't automatically afford to buy every good model.

**Slayer-Fan123**

vipoid wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Why wouldn't you own one of the best transports in the game? Seriously, they're better than the equivalent amount of Warriors to give your current Warriors an awesome boost.

Because, astonishing at this may sound, I can't automatically afford to buy every good model.

That IS true, though getting them via the Battle force and then buying a new one is easily done. I can't even imagine footslogging them anymore, and I used the 3rd Edition Codex!

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That IS true, though getting them via the Battle force and then buying a new one is easily done.

Why?

£72 for two isn't cheap by any measure, and getting one via the Battle Force just adds another £40 to that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I can't even imagine footslogging them anymore, and I used the 3rd Edition Codex!

Really?

With the new RPs, it seems to me that footslogging is more viable than ever. Each to his own though.

**Slayer-Fan123**

vipoid wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That IS true, though getting them via the Battle force and then buying a new one is easily done.

Why?

£72 for two isn't cheap by any measure, and getting one via the Battle Force just adds another £40 to that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I can't even imagine footslogging them anymore, and I used the 3rd Edition Codex!

Really?

With the new RPs, it seems to me that footslogging is more viable than ever. Each to his own though.

It's more viable than ever, but why you'd ever sacrifice that much mobility for your Warriors I'll never know. A Ghost Ark will overall have more durability than 10 Warriors too, while having a smaller footprint.

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

It's more viable than ever, but why you'd ever sacrifice that much mobility for your Warriors I'll never know. A Ghost Ark will overall have more durability than 10 Warriors too, while having a smaller footprint.

I'm not sure about that durability. In my experience, 10 warriors are pretty damn durable. 10 wounds with a 4+/4+++ goes a long way. Also, with stuff like Haywire, Grav, D weapons etc., AV13 is far from the defence it was in 5th and 6th.

Mobility is a fair point though.

In any case, if I had Ghost Arks, I'd certainly be using them.

**Slayer-Fan123**

vipoid wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

It's more viable than ever, but why you'd ever sacrifice that much mobility for your Warriors I'll never know. A Ghost Ark will overall have more durability than 10 Warriors too, while having a smaller footprint.

I'm not sure about that durability. In my experience, 10 warriors are pretty damn durable. 10 wounds with a 4+/4+++ goes a long way. Also, with stuff like Haywire, Grav, D weapons etc., AV13 is far from the defence it was in 5th and 6th.

Mobility is a fair point though.

In any case, if I had Ghost Arks, I'd certainly be using them.

What has Haywire that's REALLY a threat at this point? D Weapons are even worse against Warriors (a Ghost Ark provides minor protection at least) and Grav Weapons are again more deadly on Warriors, since you won't reach them in time. Add on that the capability to rebuild fallen Warriors, and you SHOULD be sold!

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

What has Haywire that's REALLY a threat at this point?

What do you mean?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
D Weapons are even worse against Warriors (a Ghost Ark provides minor protection at least)

How so?

Most D weapons are single shot - so they can kill the ghost ark in one hit, but only 1 warrior. Granted, D weapon blasts/flamers are worse against warriors, but I believe they're less common (could be wrong though).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Grav Weapons are again more deadly on Warriors, since you won't reach them in time.

Eh?

I wasn't aware that Immobilised Ghost Arks got you anywhere fast.

Also, let's be honest here, the main users of Grav (centurions) are things you want to be shooting with better weapons than gauss rifles.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Add on that the capability to rebuild fallen Warriors, and you SHOULD be sold!

I don't get what you mean by this. I've already said that I'd use Ghost Arks if I owned them. How much more sold do you need me to be?