good spacemarine stuff aginst necrons?

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**sma10**

Hi could somebody help with my problem called necrons

My frined just bought necron army and he beats my every time.
Could somebody help me how to counter those immortal bastards. My bigges problem is ghostarks filled with warriors and of course monomith
I have tried some advice from this site but they only give me little help. Could you please help with my problem i really need help me?

I play with eladr too and i have same problem with them so can you also give me tips for eldar too

**vipoid**

Don't know about Eldar, but this is what would concern my Necrons:

- Vindicator (Necrons don't have much that can safely engage it, and S10 means Necro-no-pain rolls are getting -1, and things like Destroyers and Wraiths are being instant-deathed). I suspect it will die, but it's your friend as long as it's alive.
- Grav. Virtually everything in the Necron army has a 4+ or 3+ armour save - many with T5 - and they don't appreciate when you have a ton of AP2 fire that ignores toughness and wounds on their armour value (often with rerolls). Moreover, against vehicles you're ignoring their AV13/14, and even a single 6 will prevent that vehicle from jinking in future (assuming it isn't destroyed outright).
- Centurions. As above, Grav Cannons are a real concern for Necrons. Worse still, these guys are T5 with 2+ saves - and Necrons are really short on AP2.
- Fully-kitted Chapter Masters. Relates to the above point, in that Necrons don't have much AP2 - so a T5 4-wound guy with a 2+/3+ IWND etc. is almost impossible to deal with beyond maybe tarpitting with Wraiths. But, even then, Turbo Boost means the Wraiths will have trouble catching him.
- Strong melee units. Sweeping Necrons in melee is one of the best ways to negate their saves, and very few of their models are Fearless. Moreover, virtually every 'shooty' Necron has no melee weapons/abilities to speak of - so at the very least you're tying down the squad. Also, in melee you're hitting the vulnerable rear armour of stuff like Ghost Arks - allowing you to ignore their shields.
- Thunderfire Cannons. Most Necron armies at the moment are heavy on non-vehicles, and Thunderfire Cannons can force a *lot* of saves on them. You only need to fail a few and suddenly that Wraith squad is looking a lot less threatening. Also, the Thunderfire cannon drastically out-ranges virtually everything in the Necron codex.
- Psykers. Obviously this depends on what powers you have, but Necron psychic defence is basically non-existent.
- Objective Secured (especially from Gladius, and especially especially in maelstrom missions). A lot of the time, Necrons won't be objective secured (since they'll be using Decurion), and even if they are, only a few units in their army will have it. In contrast, SMs can easily have ObjSec on their entire army. So, you can take objectives off them just with drop pods. If you're scoring objectives every turn, then you can put a lot of pressure on the enemy army with transports and such - probably screwing up his target-priority a fair bit.

Hope this helps.

Also, if you could post more details regarding what missions you play, your friend's army, your army and the problems you're having, we might be able to find some more specific solutions.

**GAdvance**

man the only thing ou potatnially missed out is triple whilwinds for rending, let's be honest who owns three whilwinds

**phoenix darkus**

All good points by vipoid.

The bonus with grav weaponry is that against the transports you will immobilize them which really nerfs them since their shooting is short-to-mid range at best.

**Crazy Jay**

If Ghost Arks filled with warriors are your problem, then make sure your opponent is firing appropriately for how far he moved in the movement phase.

Stationary - all weapons at full BS (unit embarked counts as stationary)
Combat speed - 1 weapon full BS, all others snap fire (unit embarked counts as moved)
Cruising speed - all weapons and passengers snap fire.

At least the people I play with regularly forget this and it really tones down the moble threat of the necrons.

**Silverthorne**

Blind weapons are really good if you're getting blasted by wraiths. Biker Marines are great because you can get around to blast his vehicles or warriors and with the right Chapter tactics, he can't keep you locked up forever. DA are great at this as BK can munch on half of the battlefield and then super-overwatch the counterassault, run away and then either double tap and charge or just swing away to a new, less crunchy unit.

**Neophyte2012**

Grab Librarian and roll on Biomancy, hope for enfeeble. Enfeeble ypur intended target then open up with Autocannon, Assault Cannon in the case of Warriors and Crypteks, or krak missile launcher in the case of firing at Destroyers, Patorieons, Lychguard, Wraiths, Overlords on foot. You are going to demote their RP by one, punching through theor armor save so they now only have 6+ or 5+ RP to save them...

**Exalbaru**

GAdvance wrote:
man the only thing ou potatnially missed out is triple whilwinds for rending, let's be honest who owns three whilwinds

I do hahaha, I was totally convinced they were way better than they are

**Martel732**

Whirlwinds are cheap ignores cover.

**Nevelon**

The main problem with whirlwinds is not the whirlwind, but the TFC. For just a few points more, the cannon brings a lot more to the party.

One of the things holding them back in the last codex was the HS slot they ate. Now that we can squadron them, or take them as part of a formation, that’s less of an issue. Unlike the larger SM tanks, they can gain their squadron bonus in a practical format. Putting 3 on the table is less the 200 points, and if something needs to be hit with a pie plate from a WW, it could probably use 3. Pinning and shred are a nice bonus, and if you include the speeder for the formation, re-rolling to hit and infinite range are pure gravy.

**Martel732**

I'm BA. So the whirlwind is what I have. But no squadrons and no formations.

**Exalbaru**

Martel732 wrote:
I'm BA. So the whirlwind is what I have. But no squadrons and no formations.

Yep, SW here. No TFC

**daBIGboss**

Pretty much all the points Vipoid said are legit.

Necrons are just one of those armies that small arms fire does next to nothing to. Crippling Necron saves are the way to beat them, as in, instant death weapons to weaken our res saves and ap2 + ap3 weapons. Necrons are strong because we're so resilient so when you take that away they get wrecked.

I'm very surprised you're having a problem fighting them with Eldar. Eldar psychic and D weapons combined usually do the trick. Bring the Eldar D flamers against Ghost Arks and that's the Ghost Ark gone (as well as the troops inside). Monoliths depend on how they're used. If he's using it to fight then it can largely be ignored, but if he's using it as a transport sort of vehicle it has to be destroyed asap. Eldar lance weapons will do the trick there and Lascannons should do enough from the space marine side.

**ionusx**

ally in the sky silencers for all of 400ish points, carpet bomb him with rift cannons and watch his models vanish. necrons have some of the worst initiative values in the game and many of their units pay a pnealty on top of that such as exotic weapon. so their going to pretty much always fail their initiative tests. and when they do models are simply removed from play. in addition you could potentially generate a vortex and models caught in a vortex are pretty much stuck in a perpetual cycle of die, reanimate repeat if they arent killed outright.

furthermore should they kill the warlord you get an extra victory point which is nice, and necrons dont exactly have a counter to them they dont really have a lot of skyfire

**Aben Zin**

As Silverthorne said blind is great against the crons. Taking a LS Storm full of close combat scouts (with a power weapon carrying sgt.) can work wonders.

**skoffs**

You're having trouble with Monoliths?
That's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time...

**hisshers**

I really don't find Necrons that easy to sweep!

**skoffs**

They aren't so much anymore, thanks to the changes in RP.
(but, shhhh, most people don't know that so keep trying it, only to find out the hard way)

**next gen marines**

Ignore the monolith as long as you aren't carrying rhino or razorbacks

**Tactical_Spam**

next gen marines wrote:
Ignore the monolith as long as you aren't carrying rhino or razorbacks

At least its not a vault

**Corvus_corax**

I play Necrons all the time and the one thing my main opponent hates most of all are my Assault Centurions. People laugh at them all the time on the internet but seriously, these guys are great alternatives to regular Grav Centurions in that they are very good at taking out units that Grav Centurions aren't. Necrons seem to have a lot of these, and have access to way to much AV13, making the melta-toting Assault Centurions the right choice.

Things that make them awesome against Necrons:
1. 3 TL Meltaguns and 3 Hurricane Bolters gives them a lot of firepower. With split-fire they can shot at one unit and charge another, killing 2 units at once. They have great utility. These guys shred infantry, heavy infantry, Wraiths and AV13/14 vehicles almost without breaking a sweat. Best thing is, you want him to charge you, so being within 12" is always just according to plan.
2. 10 attacks on the charge that strike first (at I4) with S9, AP2, Armorbane. These guys crush Catacomb Command Barges like nobody's business and will also do really well against Wraiths and other Necron Melee units. Stick a character in with them and give him a stormshield so you can tank those rending attacks. With this set up, and even with an enemy character in the Wraith-unit, these guys will kill them in 50% of your games, if their shooting's included.
3. They're cheap. Seriously, 200 pts. I play semi-competitively and my usual Necron opponent is in the top 5 in the Nation (Norway. It's a small country but still...) and 200 points of these guys has always done very well against any type of Necron list. If you want to add a little insurance, get them a Drop Pod and ferry them to the front lines turn 1.

If they're not your cup o' tea, then Thunderfire Cannons are really the best awesome-sauce alternative.

**skoffs**

... are people still using CCBs?

And by way of wondering, how do Ass-Cents fare against massed Flayed Ones?

**Corvus_corax**

Yes, people are still using CCBs's. They're good against loads of stuff, just not D-weapons. Anywho, it's beside the point as Assault Centurions are great against most of the stuff that Necron armies usually field.

... are people still using massed Flayed ones?

Against any 10-man CC-oriented unit that spits out a large number of attacks the Assault Centurions are less effective as they only have 7 attacks total. But on the flip-side 18 TL Bolter shots and 3 TL meltagun shots make up for that weakness pre-assault.

**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
... are people still using CCBs?

I haven't disregarded them completely, but I haven't fielded one in a while (primarily due to the fate of the others I fielded).

**next gen marines**

Melta is a great way to fight necrons as the strength is twice the toughness of immortals and warriors (they can't use the we'll be back special rule) and ap 1 helps you take out vehicles quickly

**vipoid**

next gen marines wrote:
Melta is a great way to fight necrons as the strength is twice the toughness of immortals and warriors (they can't use the we'll be back special rule) and ap 1 helps you take out vehicles quickly

That's incorrect.

Instant Death weapons now only apply a -1 penalty to RP. So, 4+ RP becomes 5+.

Honestly, if you want to use meltaguns to kill my 13 or 17pt infantry - which still get a 5++ save on top of any cover - go ahead.

**Martel732**

Find a way to a cause more wounds than they can save. I guess that means grav cents.

**Glitcha**

Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

**Martel732**

Glitcha wrote:
Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

This doesn't work as well as it sounds. It's hard to cause enough wounds in melee to make them blow their LD 10 checks.

**Lammikkovalas**

Martel732 wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
Assault them. Necrons have low Initiative. You can sweep them and just push them off the table. You hit first and have a higher initiative.

This doesn't work as well as it sounds. It's hard to cause enough wounds in melee to make them blow their LD 10 checks.

If you could get them into combat reliably, TH/SS terminators could do the trick.