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If you don't want to fight at close-range, don't take a close-range unit.

Some of you guys really make everything too complicated.

Yoyoyo wrote:
If you don't want to fight at close-range, don't take a close-range unit.

Some of you guys really make everything too complicated.

At this point, FWs with carbines are a better close ranged unit. That's the point.

I don't really like these guys, but I can see them being an ok suicide squad to pick off marines with them having 20 plasma shots at five inches for 90 points. Well I guess 170pts since you pretty much need them to have a Devilfish to be effective.

Oh, but there's something really cool here, the squad leader can take Target Lock with a Markerlight, it would be cool if they let the basic Fire Warriors have that too, as it offers more Markerlights to be hidden within the force.

I ordinarily am not a fan of Tau, and my tactical brain has always had a weakness for their mechanics (read: I have a hard time beating Tau players typically). That being said, I think it's freaking cool that these little dudes can zip up the field in their ship, pop out and set up a fire base. Sure, they're not super deadly, but I absolutely love the idea of a little shield zone and an automated turret protecting them while they fight. Even if nobody plays this unit competitively, I still say good for Tau for getting a unique, neat unit.

I can see two units of these in D-fish using the old fish o fury tactics. Drive up, turn around, dislodge 6", shoot away at 5" When done with two units, it could wipe out most potential enemy units. If there are any stragglers you use other longer range models like HYMP or the GhostKeel to finish them off.

I personally dont see the use of the turret that useful unless your using your guys behind the defense line as DS defense and you can just get another MP on the field.

If the FW's have access to the shields and drones you can almost bet your ass they'll see some use. Maybe even competitive. FW with a 6+ save is pretty good and with a turret in cover? Good stuff. That all depends on if they can get those upgrades. Breachers suck and can go die in a volcano though. I hope our Devifish transports get a massive price break to make them more competitive. That is key to bringing back mech Tau. Without that I wouldn't count on seeing anything but XV8 spam in tournaments. Unless they nerf those too. :(

 Gamgee wrote:
If the FW's have access to the shields and drones you can almost bet your ass they'll see some use. Maybe even competitive. FW with a 6+ save is pretty good and with a turret in cover? Good stuff. That all depends on if they can get those upgrades. Breachers suck and can go die in a volcano though. I hope our Devifish transports get a massive price break to make them more competitive. That is key to bringing back mech Tau. Without that I wouldn't count on seeing anything but XV8 spam in tournaments. Unless they nerf those too. :(

They probably have access to the Shield Drone but not the Turret, in fact I think all units that can get drones might be able to take the new version of the shield drone. If you look at it the Shield Drone isn't listed in their upgrade options, but the Turret is, and then the cost of the Shield Drone is listed in its own wargear section, with the only way for the Breachers to take it, is by taking it from their 0-2 Drone List drones. Meaning it's probably a universal drone, not a unit specific one, if that's the case it basically functions exactly like you'd expect a shield drone to function, and at 12 points it's uh-mazing.

As for the Breachers themselves, I think they can be competitive as they do one thing very well, while also being pretty cheap. Granted, they aren't something you take a lot of, but one unit can really do a lot of damage if played correctly.

How could these possibly be good even in a casual game? I don't see how.

Looks like Age of Sigmar.

Twenty plasma rifle shots (ok AP3 not AP2, but for killing most things it's just as good) for 90 points? Well I guess 170pts since you have to buy a Devilfish to get in range, but still that's a lot of Plasma equivalent weapons for almost no points and a Devilfish.

Compare that with three Crisis Suits wearing two Plasma Rifles and nothing else, which cost 156 points and get 12 shots at a bit over double range, and it's not unreasonable to field a suicide squad of these guys that can easily make its points back.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The carbine is better than this thing for all ranges except 5". Even at 10", it still has the advantage of pinning.

Pinning is inconsistent at best. I'd rather have the ability to go up close and murder MEQs than occasionally pinning a unit.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Twenty plasma rifle shots (ok AP3 not AP2, but for killing most things it's just as good) for 90 points? Well I guess 170pts since you have to buy a Devilfish to get in range, but still that's a lot of Plasma equivalent weapons for almost no points and a Devilfish.

Compare that with three Crisis Suits wearing two Plasma Rifles and nothing else, which cost 156 points and get 12 shots at a bit over double range, and it's not unreasonable to field a suicide squad of these guys that can easily make its points back.

The Crisis weapons operate at maximum range. The pulse guns on these are 5 inches. So no you don't get an equivalent amount of fire. You'll be firing plasma rifle shots well before the breachers get their str 6 shots. They are also more survivable and mobile. You'll be lucky if your breachers can even make it to 5 inch range without being obliterated to half squad health or less. Not to mention the constant threat of being tied up in melee from beyond their paltry 5 inch range.

They will be taking shots the entire time they try and get close if the enemy doesn't charge. If they push forward to assault these guys or keep up the pressure they'll be getting whittled down by enemy fire. I see no role for these things except a one trick devilfish pony kamikaze. Except I have better things to spend my points on than any of this. Even the FW are a much better troop choice with their longer ranges and constant ability to use the same damage. The breachers are a joke weapon. Even if they do get close your opponent will never make that mistake again. Just like these days when you load up FW with emp grenades and take a tank down. It's unlikely to ever work again because your opponent knows.

With their limited range I can't adapt and use their full power on most targets I want when I want. The battlefield changes and so does my priority of targets. Breachers are completely inflexible and once committed can't do anything else. Re-positioning them to make full use of them is harder than with firewarriors.

 Verviedi wrote:
Holy feth, Peregrine's back?

Someone must have left the window open and he flew back in on resin pinions.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Feel for you Tau players (no not really, I'm still sore from your last Codex pooping all over my DE)

No, Games Workshop gak on your DE, not us.

I like them. Dynamic and rewarding come to mind.

I used devilfish before, this just gives me even more reason to do so.

As for people saying they are bad: 2 str 6 ap3 shots on a 9 point model is bad? Madness.

(how will this work with the ethereal power? 2.5 inch half range?)

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
If the FW's have access to the shields and drones you can almost bet your ass they'll see some use. Maybe even competitive. FW with a 6+ save is pretty good and with a turret in cover? Good stuff. That all depends on if they can get those upgrades. Breachers suck and can go die in a volcano though. I hope our Devifish transports get a massive price break to make them more competitive. That is key to bringing back mech Tau. Without that I wouldn't count on seeing anything but XV8 spam in tournaments. Unless they nerf those too. :(

They probably have access to the Shield Drone but not the Turret, in fact I think all units that can get drones might be able to take the new version of the shield drone. If you look at it the Shield Drone isn't listed in their upgrade options, but the Turret is, and then the cost of the Shield Drone is listed in its own wargear section, with the only way for the Breachers to take it, is by taking it from their 0-2 Drone List drones. Meaning it's probably a universal drone, not a unit specific one, if that's the case it basically functions exactly like you'd expect a shield drone to function, and at 12 points it's uh-mazing.

The little Support Turret is almost definitely going to be available to both versions of FW. Likely the reason it is in a unit upgrade rather than the Drone list is because it is not a Drone.

 Gamgee wrote:
Re-positioning them to make full use of them is harder than with firewarriors.

Yup! You will have to fight like a man with these guys, and run recklessly towards danger. Perhaps success awaits you, and perhaps ruin, but above all, glory.

Who dares wins! Blood for the blood God!

Hopefully I can equip the Shas'vre with a Daemon weapon

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Re-positioning them to make full use of them is harder than with firewarriors.

Yup! You will have to fight like a man with these guys, and run recklessly towards danger. Perhaps success awaits you, and perhaps ruin, but above all, glory.

Who dares wins! Blood for the blood God!

Hopefully I can equip the Shas'vre with a Daemon weapon

Sounds dumb and why I play Tau.

'Tis nobler to fight in close and risk both victory and destruction, than run off the board edge after failing a morale check

So I take it that the min sized squad of breachers plus drone turret is 55 pt

That puts it 1 point ahead of the current min Firewarriors. I imagine if someone predominately fielded min-sized fire warriors as a backfield objective sitter they could probably get a kick out of trying this unit out since it can provide extra thing on the field (that can't be directly shot at) to dish out S7. Of course that would also depend on Firewarriors (or Strikers if that's what they're going to be called) retain the same point value from the previous codex and don't have access to the turret.

This is all guessing though

Happy 1300

Yoyoyo wrote:
'Tis nobler to fight in close and risk both victory and destruction, than run off the board edge after failing a morale check

You assume I play at the edges. I just don't want to be that close. It's dumb. A Tau is never too close, nor is he too far away. He is exactly where he needs to be.

Well, at this point playing Imperial Guard seems pointless. GG GW, you just invalidated us yet more.

You can't really be saying a unit sucks until you see the rest of the finished codex. It might be that the devilfish can gain deepstrike and be a drop pod to put the guys exactly where you want them. And just because it can get ap3 doesn't mean you have to use it that way. You jet up and jump out on an objective in cover and play come near me I dare you. You always get all your shots at full range and str 4 is ok. Then as the enemy close in to clear you out ypu progressively get better at wiping them out. Its a good unit that makes people think "stay at range and just get gunned down by weight of fire by rest of the army or try close in to assault and suffer more ap3 but less guns".

Also don't forget you now do what scions do but better, so well done you out do the guard again. You get your 5++ and your missile drone thing. Like I've said they might even get deep strike.

 HANZERtank wrote:
You can't really be saying a unit sucks until you see the rest of the finished codex. It might be that the devilfish can gain deepstrike and be a drop pod to put the guys exactly where you want them. And just because it can get ap3 doesn't mean you have to use it that way. You jet up and jump out on an objective in cover and play come near me I dare you. You always get all your shots at full range and str 4 is ok. Then as the enemy close in to clear you out ypu progressively get better at wiping them out. Its a good unit that makes people think "stay at range and just get gunned down by weight of fire by rest of the army or try close in to assault and suffer more ap3 but less guns".

Also don't forget you now do what scions do but better, so well done you out do the guard again. You get your 5++ and your missile drone thing. Like I've said they might even get deep strike.

If I'm going to sit and camp an objective I want to use regular FW with a drone giving them that save. They'll be able to contribute more by reaching out longer ranges and shooting stuff rather than just sitting there. Why have a unit that does one thing when I can have a unit that does two? The FW annihilate stuff at long range and at medium range. They cap and they can still be deepstriked in with this hypothetical devilfish and can take the drones and maybe even the drop in tower which synergises with them much more due to their range to utilize it. They can still get in cover like breachers.

In what situation would the Breachers ever be more useful when capping a point? The last 5 inches of a charge? whoop dee doo. By that point they've been almost a non-contributor just sitting on a cap point. By the time either team is getting charged it's too late. But at least the FW will have likely weakened the charger much more on the approach than the breachers will with one volley from their depleted and worn down squad. Where as the breachers can't contribute at a longer ranges and get less shots since they will be depleted by the time anyone gets within even their 15 inch range.

Which leaves their only truly useful role as an anti-tank unit that rushes up, but why do that when we have so many much better more efficient and reliable options?

The breachers without some sort of formation bonus are a complete travesty and it would take some sort of god tier drones/equipment/devilfish combo to make them super good. Now I'm not saying they don't have it in the new dex, for all we know they could. But with the rules as of now? And even the hypothetical rules being presented here? Nope. Not a chance in hell. Bringing them to all but the most casual of games will likely just result in disappointment.

 Gamgee wrote:
The FW annihilate stuff at long range and at medium range.

Wowowowowow... wait a minute. If my math is correct, a squad (10 guys) of FW can deal 2 Wounds to a MEQ if they are within Rapid Fire range. On the other hand, a unit (10 guys) of Breachers can deal 8 Wounds within 5" and the same 2 Wounds within 10" (almost FW Rapid Fire range). With only a single Markerlight Token (for BS4), the Breachers can wipe out a whole Tactical Squad with one volley (11 Wounds).

And before you start with the "muh 5" range" thing - learn to Devilfish dammit. The unit has that option for a very good reason .

I just want to know what's so special about the Devilfish that it's now got a TY7 designation attached.

Put an ethereal in the devilfish with these guys since it's a pulse weapon and all...

5" is well within 1/2 of max distance so each model fires 4, S6-AP3 shots. A little ml support and you don't really need to worry about being charged.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I just want to know what's so special about the Devilfish that it's now got a TY7 designation attached.

In order to better combat the imperium the earth caste finally finished designing the stencil to paint TY7 onto the devilfishies.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I just want to know what's so special about the Devilfish that it's now got a TY7 designation attached.

It is a standard vehicle designation, like the XV for the battlesuits. They just list it now in the unit entry because of reasons.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I just want to know what's so special about the Devilfish that it's now got a TY7 designation attached.

It's probably for IP reasons. A devilfish can refer to manta rays, octopuses, several species of fish, as well as several unrelated objects.

Thinking more on it, Breachers are one of the better ways to prevent the 'gun line' style of Tau play.
Problem for me, it is not very Kill Team friendly and that is all I seem interested in these days.