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Just saw this: http://imgur.com/a/yxtaw

And thought it was an interesting unit. It seems built around the idea of going in deep (ideally with a devilfish) and utilizing its turret. As far as I can tell, the rules show how to deploy and shoot with it without ever touching on what it's shooting attack actually is.
How good this unit will be will very much be dependent on what the turret does.

The new guardian drone seems nifty, but I don't see it improving survival rates on fire warriors, most of the time they'll be in cover anyway.
Maybe the field amplifier relay will have a benefit beyond improving the guardian drone's invuln save?

This hints at some changes that are... interesting... to say the least.
The Tau, a faction that is well known for its long distance capabilities, receiving weapons that are stronger the closer you are to the enemy?

Not bad, but 5-10 man squad size is just painfully stupid. GW, you're supposed to at least care about the fluff even if you can't make balanced rules. Tau squad sizes are 6, 8, 12, etc, for a reason!

And we have the turret rules. It's a very good upgrade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:
The Tau, a faction that is well known for its long distance capabilities, receiving weapons that are stronger the closer you are to the enemy?

It makes sense, you can't significantly boost Tau long-range shooting because you don't want to have them wiping whole armies off the table before anyone can get close enough to fight back. Making new short-range units gives GW a lot more freedom to do exciting new things without breaking the game because the OMG WTF THATS AMAZING power is balanced out by having to get up close where everyone can fight back.

I think I hate these. You have a unit of firewarriors with nothing but extremely short ranged weapons that are anti-MEQ, so there goes any hope they wanted to make the Vespid usable.

But a short ranged unit has to remain stationary for a whole turn with their assault weapons to set up a single drone. That seems dumb.

Back to sucking I see. I got a feeling our codex is going to be absolutely bad. Formations might not save the shanking we're taking here.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think I hate these. You have a unit of firewarriors with nothing but extremely short ranged weapons that are anti-MEQ, so there goes any hope they wanted to make the Vespid usable.

No, you have a unit of carbine fire warriors that gets an AP 3 marine-massacring stat line if they happen to be up close.

But a short ranged unit has to remain stationary for a whole turn with their assault weapons to set up a single drone. That seems dumb.

That's why the drone costs so few points. Set it up on turn 1 while camping an objective, and let the unit act as area denial.

It seems like a decent squad to zip up, hop out of a transport, and unload into something. Definitely a departure from a gunline, but should give Tau someone to go grab objectives, and hopefully hold them.

I do this sort of thing with tac marines in a rhino. These guys, if pressed right up against their target, should cause a lot more damage. But they better kill whatever they are shooting at, otherwise the next turn is going to be very bad for them.

It will be interesting to see how the new codex treats the devilfish. It’s been forever since I’ve seen one on the table, and the sort of mechanized assault these guys look to do requires a transport.

I think I'm starting to warm up to these. They reason to push and be aggressive and will have a 5++ at the least. The drone sounds like a decent upgrade that the squad can deploy on an objective they want to camp and doesn't necessarily hold them down.

This will depend entirely on how the devilfish is costed.

I like the new helmets, and I already ran pulse carbine warriors in fish for the objective heavy games we play now a days, these guys are straight upgrades to those.

Yeah, anyone who's saying that these aren't [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] terrible is smoking crack.

5" range on the relevant profile. That means the enemy has to end their turn 11" or less away. Oh, wait, that's in fething charge range. Why would that make sense. At all. Then 10" range on the same profile as a freaking pulse carbine. Right, okay.

The shield is cool, we can pay 12 points to become demons. As is the turret. If I can combine those two things with regular firewarriors then awesome. 5+ invuln and a missile pod for a total of 22 points more? Cool.

But breachers are terrible. First you gotta buy a devilfish, because it's the only way they get anywhere alive. That's 80 points. Then 110 for breachers with emp grenades.

I could buy a riptide. Literally. Why would I ever do this. This is absurd. feth GW and making everyone's codex better but ours.

GW decided to bring...balance? Burn the witch!

No these are pretty bad. Feel for you Tau players (no not really, I'm still sore from your last Codex pooping all over my DE)

LockeWatts wrote:

5" range on the relevant profile. That means the enemy has to end their turn 11" or less away. Oh, wait, that's in fething charge range. Why would that make sense. At all.

Because Overwatch is a thing. Especially for Tau. With the Breachers, you want to move in the 5" range brand, unload all those S6 AP3 shots, cripple if not outright annihilate the target, then face the nearest enemy unit and say "Do it f*gget!" Extra LULZ if you have markerlight support nearby or do this trick with multiple Breacher Teams and use Supporting Fire to really mess up the enemy charge.

Alternatively, team up with a Stormsurge and use the Breachers to mop up remnant units. Or do the same with Ghostkeel support - the Stormsurge mauls the enemy, the Ghostkeel draws away the return fire, the Breachers finish the job.

Now, all we need is a cheap Devilfish and a reliable markerlight platform .

LockeWatts wrote:
I could buy a riptide. Literally. Why would I ever do this.

Because the Riptide's about to get nerfed into the ground, obviously

Tau players! Begin burning your models now!

I get the feeling tau will be the next eldar... Tau players will think they're ok and everyone else will say there OP. Suppose only time will tell

Because Overwatch is a thing. Especially for Tau. With the Breachers, you want to move in the 5" range brand, unload all those S6 AP3 shots, cripple if not outright annihilate the target, then face the nearest enemy unit and say "Do it f*gget!"

Except that's not what happens at all. Average charge distance is 7". Someone can reliable close from outside of this things profile to CC without ever being shot by the AP3, even on overwatch.

Furthermore, the enemy has to end their movement within charge distance, fail the charge, and only then can we shoot them with the AP3. What the hell kind of high risk play is that?

LockeWatts wrote:
Furthermore, the enemy has to end their movement within charge distance, fail the charge, and only then can we shoot them with the AP3. What the hell kind of high risk play is that?

Don't you have access to a drone that reduces charges by D3"?

Only on pathfinder teams, right now. if the breachers got access to the pathfinder drones (-D3" charge distance and +6" range) they would suddenly become very interesting. But we don't see that right now.

Looks kinda like GW is jumping onto the laser-cut acrylic business from the terrain in one of those shots...

Valete,

JohnS

LucidNinja wrote:
I get the feeling tau will be the next eldar... Tau players will think they're ok and everyone else will say there OP. Suppose only time will tell

From breachers? Their guns are a strait downgrade on carbines unless you get within 5" (and on a WS2, I2 model, that's a horrible range to be at). The are more survivable against ap 4+ because of that 5++, but that's about it.

A turret that just pops up neither from reserve or initial setup? Am I reading this right?

 Ratius wrote:
A turret that just pops up neither from reserve or initial setup? Am I reading this right?

Yep. Think about it like it's somethin that they carry with them and then set up, like a machine gun on a tripod.

Ok gotcha.

Definitely a new game mechanic though no?

Nid MCs spawning mucalids in the movement phase?
IG dropping in weapons teams if needed?

#worried

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
A turret that just pops up neither from reserve or initial setup? Am I reading this right?

Yep. Think about it like it's somethin that they carry with them and then set up, like a machine gun on a tripod.

Or think about it being an itty bitty turret that gets dropped from an Orca hovering about the field.

It's essentially a Smart Missile System/Missile Pod with a Drone AI plugged in and nothing more.

 Nevelon wrote:
It seems like a decent squad to zip up, hop out of a transport, and unload into something. Definitely a departure from a gunline, but should give Tau someone to go grab objectives, and hopefully hold them.

I do this sort of thing with tac marines in a rhino. These guys, if pressed right up against their target, should cause a lot more damage. But they better kill whatever they are shooting at, otherwise the next turn is going to be very bad for them.

It will be interesting to see how the new codex treats the devilfish. It’s been forever since I’ve seen one on the table, and the sort of mechanized assault these guys look to do requires a transport.

They can't bit a hit squad though because they have to remain static. Their purpose is clearly just to camp out behind the Fire Warrior gunline and make sure no deepstrikes shank them in the back. Only problem though is they bump into something like Skyhammer, which will ruin these kinds of units. Probably would be better to not waste points on these guys and use them on more battlesuits.

Alternatively you could run these guys instead of fire warriors then without the stationary pod in devilfish and have a fast deploying force that can keep up with the suits instead of being static.

At least the pulse blaster is probably only ever going to be firing at the Str5 Ap5 version whenever something charges those FW. I definitely won't be charging when I am at the 5" mark.

It might be my marine POV, but I look at the turret like the heavy in the tac squad. You buy it as a just in case thing. The unit’s primary role is to hop out and blast things, the big stuff is for later. If they happen to still be alive on the objective the next turn, they plop down the turret, take some pot shots, and smoke em if they got em.

LockeWatts wrote:
5" range on the relevant profile.

No, it's 10" for the relevant profile. At 10" you're matching pulse rifle/carbine stats, and even at 15" it's not terrible. And they're the same price per model as (current codex) fire warriors, so as long as you don't get caught outside 10-15" very often you're matching your current troops but also get the ability to murder MEQs if you get up close.

That means the enemy has to end their turn 11" or less away. Oh, wait, that's in fething charge range.

It's technically within charge range, but few people are willing to suffer Tau overwatch to roll a 10-11" charge that has very little chance of success.

Also, transports exist.

I could buy a riptide. Literally. Why would I ever do this.

You do understand how different FOC slots work, right?

I want to see the Strike Team rules!

Holy feth, Peregrine's back?

 Peregrine wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:
5" range on the relevant profile.

No, it's 10" for the relevant profile. At 10" you're matching pulse rifle/carbine stats, and even at 15" it's not terrible. And they're the same price per model as (current codex) fire warriors, so as long as you don't get caught outside 10-15" very often you're matching your current troops but also get the ability to murder MEQs if you get up close.

The carbine is better than this thing for all ranges except 5". Even at 10", it still has the advantage of pinning.