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 Ghazkuul wrote:
Keep in mind that US soldiers/Marines who were sent to help with the relief were quarantined for 21 days after coming home. And this woman is complaining about 2 days in a tent? seriously? Feth her.

Service members had to sit on base in tents after returning home?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
and scooty what do you have to say about these random occurrences of Ebola that happened well after the fact?

You got an evidence of these occurences? Or are they phantom occurences that exist only to be able to let you go "Well actually I was right!"?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
and scooty what do you have to say about these random occurrences of Ebola that happened well after the fact?

It says that we need to keep studying the disease. It doesn't invalidate anything about how the disease is spread.

Even non-epidemiologists should understand that.

EDIT: I misunderstood what you are getting at here... are you talking about some people that have beaten ebola and then getting sick some time later or are you talking about people randomly getting ebola in areas that exposed to ebola? If it's the latter, please explain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265986/British-nurse-contracted-Ebola-working-West-Africa-year-flown-London-isolation-unit-treated.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/01/ebola-survivor-sex/26698329/

theirs two articles for evidence

 Ghazkuul wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265986/British-nurse-contracted-Ebola-working-West-Africa-year-flown-London-isolation-unit-treated.html

She has meningitis but they found traces of ebolavirus in her spinal fluid. That's not the same as "having ebola."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/01/ebola-survivor-sex/26698329/

Key piece of the article:

Although doctors have known for some time that the Ebola virus can survive in semen long after a patient is considered cured, there has never been a clear, documented case of this happening, according to the CDC report.

This happened after scientists have long thought that it could. That's really important, but it still doesn't change anything about the topic at hand.

theirs two articles for evidence

There's two articles for evidence.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

theirs two articles for evidence

There's two articles for evidence.

Sorry, I can't help myself:
There're two articles for evidence.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 the Signless wrote:
Ebola is not one of the most dangerous viruses in the world. It spreads through the bodily fluids of people that are in advanced stages of the disease, making it relatively easy to avoid if proper measures are taken. It also has fairly obvious symptoms, making it hard to be Typhoid Mary and infect others without your knowledge.

She had displayed no symptoms while she was in Africa and was monitored before she went back to the United States. She repeatedly tested negative for Ebola after she was quarantined. The conditions of her quarantine were also pretty bad, being stuck in an unheated tent for days with a portable toilet and no shower.

Aids is not a dangerous disease because it is transmitted by bodily fluids blah blah blah....seriously dude? I would rate how dangerous a virus/disease is by the survival rate not by how easy it is to transmit.

So far the survival rate for Ebola on a western country is what? 80-90%?

There is a big old thread explaining why the quarantine is stupid. Leave the public health issues to public health officials, not politicians.

was there a political gain to have the military coming back from Africa quarantined for 3 weeks? i missed where that had any kind of political motivation.

The military is a lot easier to quarantine because they honestly don't exactly have a lot of the same rights that civilians do.

The quarantine of this particular nurse was political because he wanted to seem Tough on Ebola.

The best quarantine response was implemented, to no ones surprise, by the uniformed services members of the Public Health Services returning from Africa: self monitor at home for symptoms for 21 days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265986/British-nurse-contracted-Ebola-working-West-Africa-year-flown-London-isolation-unit-treated.html

She has meningitis but they found traces of ebolavirus in her spinal fluid. That's not the same as "having ebola."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/01/ebola-survivor-sex/26698329/

Key piece of the article:

Although doctors have known for some time that the Ebola virus can survive in semen long after a patient is considered cured, there has never been a clear, documented case of this happening, according to the CDC report.

This happened after scientists have long thought that it could. That's really important, but it still doesn't change anything about the topic at hand.

theirs two articles for evidence

There's two articles for evidence.

The other thing to keep in mind with semen transmission is that historically it has been very hard to get good compliance with condom use in Africa. It's no scientific study, but just looking at the historical cases that show that once an Ebola outbreak has stopped it doesn't quickly return despite the fact that 50% of survivors have Ebola-sperm makes it seem that this particular transmission risk of fairly low.

Now we just need to stop people from eating each other's eyeballs.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265986/British-nurse-contracted-Ebola-working-West-Africa-year-flown-London-isolation-unit-treated.html

She has meningitis but they found traces of ebolavirus in her spinal fluid. That's not the same as "having ebola."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/01/ebola-survivor-sex/26698329/

Key piece of the article:

Although doctors have known for some time that the Ebola virus can survive in semen long after a patient is considered cured, there has never been a clear, documented case of this happening, according to the CDC report.

This happened after scientists have long thought that it could. That's really important, but it still doesn't change anything about the topic at hand.

theirs two articles for evidence

There's two articles for evidence.

Seriously? My computer auto correct there to their and your going to point it out?

The fact remains that the Ebola virus can live inside the human body for a significantly longer period of time then most believe. So with that in mind a 2 day quarantine doesn't seem overly strict.

It's overly strict because it's not based on a single criteria for actual transmission.

If you don't have a fever you are not contagious. If the test is negative you are not contagious.

Leave the science to scientists, and specifically leave public health issues to public health officials.

Again, feel free to dig up the old thread for your reading pleasure where all this was covered in real time as it was happening.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

theirs two articles for evidence

There's two articles for evidence.

Sorry, I can't help myself:
There're two articles for evidence.

'There're' is fine for speech, but I'm not a fan of it in the written form; it just looks too awkward. 'There's' isn't that great either (though better than 'theirs' in his case, obviously) because using it to list multiple things is bad grammar, but in this case it's the one I would go to.

It's the lesser of two grammatical evils.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Leave the science to scientists, and specifically leave public health issues to public health officials.

But D, we're talking about FEELINGS here!

For nostalgia's sake:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/617139.page

The classic thread.

Be warned that it is filled with panic and terror. We laughed and we cried as we lived through those dangerous and uncertain times together.

Of course some mysteries are still unsolved:

- Did Peter's mother's cousin's brother's former roommate survive?
- Did Dallas only survive because people are as bad at catching Ebola as they are at catching a football?
- Was Obama's plan to infect the United States with Ebola by flying in victims and sending service members to Africa to become infected doomed from the start?

We might never know, but we will continue with our coverage of "non medical people telling medical people how they are wrong" right now!

Oh man, that was such a fun thread. It also spawned many hilarious PMs between a few of us.

Truly good times.

I think we can excuse a pretty minor grammatical or spelling error yes ?

Let's dial it down a wee bit in general please.

thanks.

 reds8n wrote:
I think we can excuse a pretty minor grammatical or spelling error yes ?

Let's dial it down a wee bit in general please.

thanks.

You don't put a space between a question mark and the last word of a sentence, reds8n! Also, you need a comma after the word "error!"

That's not how we roll!

On topic: I don't think 2 days is the end of the world, but I hope she enjoys her early retirement from the money she is sure to get.

 d-usa wrote:
For nostalgia's sake:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/617139.page

The classic thread.

Be warned that it is filled with panic and terror. We laughed and we cried as we lived through those dangerous and uncertain times together.

Of course some mysteries are still unsolved:

- Did Peter's mother's cousin's brother's former roommate survive?
- Did Dallas only survive because people are as bad at catching Ebola as they are at catching a football?
- Was Obama's plan to infect the United States with Ebola by flying in victims and sending service members to Africa to become infected doomed from the start?

We might never know, but we will continue with our coverage of "non medical people telling medical people how they are wrong" right now!

Exalted.

+ The "no space between the last word and exclamation/question mark" rule depends on the language. I guess it's the same one for British English and American English, but in French we do leave a space.

I have been informed by forum leadership that everyone that has participated in this thread is now on a 3 day quarantine due to the risk of contracting e-Bola. It's a dangerous condition where the stuff you read on the internet makes you nauseous and physically ill. This post should serve as your notice to employees since it was written by a licensed and board certified medical professional, so please print it out and hand it to your boss/parent/teacher/coach/parole officer. Everyone is free to continue their regular activities on Monday as long as you are able to stay away from any new e-Bola threads.

d-usa, BSN, RN, CMSRN

 kronk wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
I think we can excuse a pretty minor grammatical or spelling error yes ?

Let's dial it down a wee bit in general please.

thanks.

You don't put a space between a question mark and the last word of a sentence, reds8n! Also, you need a comma after the word "error!"

That's not how we roll!

On topic: I don't think 2 days is the end of the world, but I hope she enjoys her early retirement from the money she is sure to get.

I would not hold your breath on that. In matters of the "Public Health" government agencies have been given WIDE leeway by the courts.
She won't see a dime.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also thank you to whoever pointed out that I am not a epidemiologist, im sure you spent 5 minutes googling the right way to insult me so thanks for that.

As a Microbiologist I don't need to google it and what you posted was crazytalk.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also thank you to whoever pointed out that I am not a epidemiologist, im sure you spent 5 minutes googling the right way to insult me so thanks for that.

As a Microbiologist I don't need to google it and what you posted was crazytalk.

Good for you, it was also a bunch of board certified retards....I mean doctors, including epidemiologists, who told the military it is a great idea to force feed troops anti malaria pills while they are deployed to afghanistan, even though the pills themselves caused significant health concerns.

Not a single Marine in my unit contracted Malaria though....of course we were stationed in a fething desert with no water in sight...in any direction.....ever....

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also thank you to whoever pointed out that I am not a epidemiologist, im sure you spent 5 minutes googling the right way to insult me so thanks for that.

As a Microbiologist I don't need to google it and what you posted was crazytalk.

Good for you, it was also a bunch of board certified retards....I mean doctors, including epidemiologists, who told the military it is a great idea to force feed troops anti malaria pills while they are deployed to afghanistan, even though the pills themselves caused significant health concerns.

Not a single Marine in my unit contracted Malaria though....of course we were stationed in a fething desert with no water in sight...in any direction.....ever....

http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/country-profiles/profile_afg_en.pdf

And knowing is half the battle!

 SilverMK2 wrote:
And knowing is half the battle!

But again, what do epidemiologists really know...

 d-usa wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also thank you to whoever pointed out that I am not a epidemiologist, im sure you spent 5 minutes googling the right way to insult me so thanks for that.

As a Microbiologist I don't need to google it and what you posted was crazytalk.

Good for you, it was also a bunch of board certified retards....I mean doctors, including epidemiologists, who told the military it is a great idea to force feed troops anti malaria pills while they are deployed to afghanistan, even though the pills themselves caused significant health concerns.

Not a single Marine in my unit contracted Malaria though....of course we were stationed in a fething desert with no water in sight...in any direction.....ever....

http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/country-profiles/profile_afg_en.pdf

see that lower left side of the map,



i was in that yellow portion of Nimruz and the pink portion of Helmand. Specifically Delaram and Sangin

so mostly 0% Malaria cases, and if I happened to go south a bit I might have been in the .1 per 1,000 area :p nowhere near enough malaria to warrant the amount of drugs they forced on us.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

i was in that yellow portion of Nimruz and the pink portion of Helmand. Specifically Delaram and Sangin

So you were in an area with Malaria? Glad we got that out of the way then.

so mostly 0% Malaria cases,

Well, mostly 0% still means you are in a country that is not malaria free.

and if I happened to go south a bit I might have been in the .1 per 1,000 area :p nowhere near enough malaria to warrant the amount of drugs they forced on us.

Except prevention is always cheaper and more effective than treatment.

I thought there were no such thing of 0% of "x" germs... just exceedingly rare.

Side note: getting sick with Malaria is no joke... I've had family members get 'em and sucks balls.

 d-usa wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

i was in that yellow portion of Nimruz and the pink portion of Helmand. Specifically Delaram and Sangin

So you were in an area with Malaria? Glad we got that out of the way then.

so mostly 0% Malaria cases,

Well, mostly 0% still means you are in a country that is not malaria free.

and if I happened to go south a bit I might have been in the .1 per 1,000 area :p nowhere near enough malaria to warrant the amount of drugs they forced on us.

Except prevention is always cheaper and more effective than treatment.

I live in Florida atm, we have on average about 150 malaria cases a year, so does that mean Floridians should all be put on a possibly harmful Malaria medicine?

Side effects are basically omnipresent no matter the medicine anyway. Everything is potentially harmful.

 Ghazkuul wrote:


I live in Florida atm, we have on average about 150 malaria cases a year, so does that mean Floridians should all be put on a possibly harmful Malaria medicine?

If we go by your numbers:

Rate of Malaria in Florida: 0.0000075%
Rate in Malaria in Afghanistan: 0.1%

Which would mean that you are 13,000 times more likely to catch Malaria in Afghanistan than you are in Florida.

So based on your numbers I could see where trained professionals might decide that one area is more appropriate for prophylaxis than another.

Of course if we want to use data that is actually factual we can look at the data from Florida:

http://www.floridahealth.gov/diseases-and-conditions/malaria/

Transmission

P. falciparum and P. vivax were previously present in Florida, but was eradicated from the state in the late 1940s. Local transmission has occurred only rarely in recent years, likely due to mosquito control measures, improved housing with screens, use of repellents, and drainage practices. A number of malaria cases are reported in immigrant and travelers to areas where malaria risk is high. There are 14 Anopheles mosquito species in Florida, all of which are potentially capable of transmitting malaria. An. quadrimaculatus and An. crucians have been major malaria vectors in the past. Since introduction from endemic areas occurs regularly and competent vectors exist in the state, local transmission is possible.

See, if you have control of the infrastructure and other public health resources you can do all these things that reduce the risk of Malaria. If you don't have control of these things you end up with having to take pills to prevent transmission. Sometimes you have to do both. Public Health officials are always tasked with coming up with the least harmful way of preventing transmission, which includes determining if the risk of taking medication is higher than the risk of not taking medication.

Malaria Occurrence in Florida

The largest outbreak in recent Florida history occurred in Palm Beach County in 2003 where there were eight cases.

Can't believe they don't know about the 150 cases that happened each year since those 8...

In 2012, 65 cases of imported malaria were reported in Florida.

That only leaves 85 cases for that year left unaccounted for...

Forty-five cases (69%) were diagnosed with P. falciparum, 16 (25%) with P. vivax, two (3%) with P. ovale, two with P. malariae (3 %). All 65 cases were associated with travel or immigration.

People going to countries where malaria happens get malaria? Who would have thought...

Reasons given for traveling to a malaria endemic county included: 43% visiting friends and relatives (VFR), 29% for business (including missionary and military), 9% of cases were recent immigrants, 8% tourism, 5% students or teachers, and 6% unknown reason.

So looking at the real epidemiological data instead of your fictional numbers for Florida, even though your inflated fictional numbers still make a very good case for not pumping the population full of pills, it seems that secondary prevention measures aimed at controlling the population of mosquitoes has been able to keep the number of transmissions at a level where 8 people out of a population of 20 million is the largest outbreak and that the vast majority of malaria cases in Florida were contracted by people who went to countries where there is still endemic malaria.

You know, like Afghanistan.

But hey, nice try. Even though by arguing why you shouldn't take pills in Afghanistan because Florida you ended up making a pretty good case of exactly why you should take pills in Afghanistan before returning to Florida.

Public Health FTW.

The states with the greatest change in reported malaria cases in 2012 were Florida, which decreased by 48% from 2011 (120 in 2011 vs. 62 in 2012),

CDC

i was looking at a significantly older cdc model then this one.

But your numbers are completely off. IN Nimruz province where I was mostly at, there was ZERO cases. When I was in Helmand there was ZERO Cases, however if I ever went on patrol into the south, where the brits were, I had a 0-.1 chance in 1000 of contracting Malaria. So the chances are EXCEPTIONALLY low. Malaria doesn't really exist in deserts so kind of hard to justify that treatment.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
even though the pills themselves caused significant health concerns.

Presumably Doxycycline? That has pretty mild side effects, especially at the low dosege that is used for antimalarial prophylaxis, it may even have cleared up a few lingering Chlamydia infections. Count yourself lucky that it wasn't Proguanil/Paludrine, that stuff is horrible.

Besides there is no way that the side effects were worse than contracting malaria.