Getting Started Kits - How do they hold up?

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**Kanluwen**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Didn't take long for people to start abusing these formations lol. Space marine went from one of the more meh ones to very powerful

Yeah, but that's what happens when people don't actually read the rules they're referring to or try to take advantage of silliness that they know is not intended.

For example, people were saying "I'll use Raptor Chapter Tactics to get double shooting phases with Rending Boltguns!"--doesn't work. You choose not to move in the Movement phase, your attacks in the Shooting phase(very clear) get Rend if they're boltguns, combi-weapons fired as boltguns, or bolt pistols.

**kronk**

Reavas wrote:
What does everyone think of the new years "getting started" range from the GW, would love to hear everyone's opinion on their value (price-wise) and their viability as a starter army.

To clarify, I'm talking about the new Space Marine, Skitarii, Tyranid, Imperial Guard and Tau etc Starting kits, which ones would you recommend to a friend who wants to start playing war-hammer?

The skitarri one has the three units I'm interested in the most from the AdMech line, so I think it's not only a great price, but it's useful to me.

**BoomWolf**

SolentSanguine wrote:
Ok, just opened up my start collecting astra militarum set. Annoyingly you only get the rules for the leman russ, so I will probably pick up the codex this week.

But my set did come with 2 commisars! And the extra base needed.

Oh and the formation is 1 infantry squad, 1 commissar and 1 leman russ so the heavy weapon team is just to upgrade the squad.

Probably a screwed up the package then, maybe the full rules SHOULD have been there? we need a second confirmation here.

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Only 3 I can speak on with any pretence of authority are the IG (or Astra Militawhatever the hell they call it these days) the space marines, and the skitarii

IG: You could buy 4 of these things and still be able to use everything in it (even the commissar) However, you're going to really hurt for special weapons. In my opinion, they should've included the CCS box. That box can easily be used to make vets and would've let you buy as many boxes as you wanted and still had a use for all the minis. That's probably why they picked the commissar. Only other complaint is that the Cadian troopers are abysmal troops and for the money you can do way better for plastic "guardsmen" these days, especially if you're an aussie. That said, not a bad start if you want to be straight GW. I would get it if I still used plastic cadians in my guard, but since I don't the only real value is the heavy weapons, the tank, and the commissar.

Space Marines: A lot of people are ragging on it, but it has two of the staple units Space Marines, Tacs and a Dread. The terminator captain is a rough choice, you'll never want more than one of those guys, but perhaps you could convert extras if you bought multiple boxes, or just trade with friends. At the very least, it's a great start and the new Tacs are a pretty nice kit. I bought one just because I love dreads, tacs, and thought the termi captain would look awesome as a black templar.

Skitarii: Probably the best of the three, and one of the best overall. The savings are really good (to give you an idea, I'm ordering 3) The skitarii are a really cool kit, but my god is assembly brutal. These guys have so many fiddly bits, details, and mold lines in REALLY hard to reach spots or over things like cooling vents on the guns. That said, they will look good and their rules are good. The Onager I've never built but you get it for a good price and it has a couple of really good builds to help support your guys. The odd bit is the Techpriest Dominus, as he's not technically from the same codex, so in order to use him with your other minis, you're either going unbound or pretty much forced to use the formation over and over per box. It definitely hints that there's probably a combined admech codex on the horizon though. The Admech are probably the one thing GW has resoundingly nailed in the past 5 years (I'd even argue they blow the plastic 30k minis out of the water) and the only thing they botched was splitting the army into two books. They fix that, and Admech will be a truly awesome army to build, paint, and play.

You could realistically buy 3-4 of these boxes, trade off a couple spare dominuses, and have an excellent core to a skitarii force, and from there just need some infiltrators/rustalkers and a couple extra skitarii boxes.

To be fair, the "Cadian defense force", who is practically a bigger version of the new "getting started" set, so if you want a bulk buy-you just get that one.

**pax_imperialis**

My local group are going in on a "tale of 4 gamers" type challenge where we buy one box, paint it and fight and then get an agreed amount per month to add to it. In aus/NZ they are insanely good value especially the skitarii one (which I called dibs on). I play necrons and would also consider getting that box just because the formation is good.

**Akiasura**

Are all the boxes the same points? I know that in WMH the all in ones are all 35 points + warcaster points.

40k it seems that the two army starters usually drastically favor one side over the other in terms of points and quality. Is this the same? I might buy a Mars army if it's a good deal.

**MechaEmperor7000**

BoomWolf wrote:
To be fair, the "Cadian defense force", who is practically a bigger version of the new "getting started" set, so if you want a bulk buy-you just get that one.

Although two Starter sets, while probably a bit more expensive than the defense force, nets you a leman russ and a second commissar instead of the chimera at the expense of a third HWS and a command squad. To me the russ would be more appealing than the chimera, but some people prefer the command squad.

**Isengard**

Vankraken wrote:
Sadly no sisters... I wonder if GW has plastic sisters as a sort of "break glass in case of low sales figures" along with plastic 30k.

Funnily enough I don't think they would sell all that well. Solidly for sure but nothing earth-shattering. If they thought they would fly off the shelves they'd have released them by now. I'm 100% certain they have been done, no solid knowledge, just a hunch, but are not going to go out for some reason yet. 30K was always supposedly the last ditch release to stave off disaster. Wonder what that would be now?

**BoomWolf**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
To be fair, the "Cadian defense force", who is practically a bigger version of the new "getting started" set, so if you want a bulk buy-you just get that one.

Although two Starter sets, while probably a bit more expensive than the defense force, nets you a leman russ and a second commissar instead of the chimera at the expense of a third HWS and a command squad. To me the russ would be more appealing than the chimera, but some people prefer the command squad.

This sounds like a tau codex and kayoun complaint.
You can get one or the other, why is it a problem two versions exist then?

**SolentSanguine**

BoomWolf wrote:
SolentSanguine wrote:
Ok, just opened up my start collecting astra militarum set. Annoyingly you only get the rules for the leman russ, so I will probably pick up the codex this week.

But my set did come with 2 commisars! And the extra base needed.

Oh and the formation is 1 infantry squad, 1 commissar and 1 leman russ so the heavy weapon team is just to upgrade the squad.

Probably a screwed up the package then, maybe the full rules SHOULD have been there? we need a second confirmation here.
...

Possibly - but I'm thinking the collective internet has misinterpreted the "play out the box" feature and it's only newer kits that will have rules on their instruction sheets and a codex is still required. E.g. we know the Skitarii one doesn't include special rules. I expect the other kits with older models (Necron and Nids) have the same problem.

But I'll drop a line to customer services and update everyone here if I get an answer.

**TheWaspinator**

Yeah, people have been saying these sets would have the full rules but that seems to be based on the line that says "allowing you to collect, assemble and play with your new miniatures right away". That line could just mean that the formation makes it so that the figures don't rely on any other specific figures to function, not that they don't require a codex.

**wuestenfux**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Firespear Strike Force for the Codex: Space Marines bundle has led to an Aquilla Strongpoint being added to my "to-buy" list. Double Tapping the Macro Cannon is just downright mean. Could run two of these for 2000ish points. Wreck everything.

Oh FFS GW, why are your rules so broken...
Shh...Don't take this away from me. My biggest complaint about SM was their inability to get Strength D. Now I have a way to get ALL the Strength D. Four Macro Cannon shells a turn off a Void Shielded AV15 monstrosity. Or two Macro Shells and two Quake Shells. Because diversity is the spice of life.

Double tapping the macro cannon is certainly not intended.

**casvalremdeikun**

wuestenfux wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Firespear Strike Force for the Codex: Space Marines bundle has led to an Aquilla Strongpoint being added to my "to-buy" list. Double Tapping the Macro Cannon is just downright mean. Could run two of these for 2000ish points. Wreck everything.

Oh FFS GW, why are your rules so broken...
Shh...Don't take this away from me. My biggest complaint about SM was their inability to get Strength D. Now I have a way to get ALL the Strength D. Four Macro Cannon shells a turn off a Void Shielded AV15 monstrosity. Or two Macro Shells and two Quake Shells. Because diversity is the spice of life.

Double tapping the macro cannon is certainly not intended.

Intended, no. Happy accident? For me, yes. Broken as hell, probably. But it is still an immobile building susceptible to a lot of stuff that costs twice as much as a Wraithknight. It also requires 400+ points in addition to the building to pull off.

**SolentSanguine**

Ok, bad news everyone. It is expected that you get the Codex even to play the formations. The reply I received from GW Customer Services:

I'm sorry if there was any confusion. The formation datasheet included in the box allows you to play the units as that given formation, not rules for the units themselves.

For unit profiles, Weapons, Points costs, wargear options etc. you will still need the relevant codex.

We will pass this along and perhaps this will be made clearer on the website.

I'm consoling myself with the mystery extra commissar I received, but thought people should be aware of this.

**wuestenfux**

Of course, you need the codex. The starter sets are just there to get you into the game.

The Necron formation is broken, but still the battle box (85€) was way better with Ghostark, 10 Warriors, 3 Scarabs, and 5 Immortals.

**SolentSanguine**

wuestenfux wrote:
Of course, you need the codex. The starter sets are just there to get you into the game.

Yes, but I've seen so many people stating here, on Bols, Natfka etc that they contain all the rules to play that I thought it was worth pointing out.

**jreilly89**

SolentSanguine wrote:
Ok, bad news everyone. It is expected that you get the Codex even to play the formations. The reply I received from GW Customer Services:

I'm sorry if there was any confusion. The formation datasheet included in the box allows you to play the units as that given formation, not rules for the units themselves.

For unit profiles, Weapons, Points costs, wargear options etc. you will still need the relevant codex.

We will pass this along and perhaps this will be made clearer on the website.

I'm consoling myself with the mystery extra commissar I received, but thought people should be aware of this.

Well that puts a dent in my enthusiasm.

**casvalremdeikun**

SolentSanguine wrote:
Ok, bad news everyone. It is expected that you get the Codex even to play the formations. The reply I received from GW Customer Services:

I'm sorry if there was any confusion. The formation datasheet included in the box allows you to play the units as that given formation, not rules for the units themselves.

For unit profiles, Weapons, Points costs, wargear options etc. you will still need the relevant codex.

We will pass this along and perhaps this will be made clearer on the website.

I'm consoling myself with the mystery extra commissar I received, but thought people should be aware of this.

That is lucky! I wish something like that would happen to me. Stupid bad luck.

**carldooley**

are these kits mono-pose or actual models bundled together?

also, can I get an idea of the Tau formation?

**HoundsofDemos**

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/40k-new-army-bundles-unboxed.html

They are full sprues with all the options that would come separately.

**the_Armyman**

SolentSanguine wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
Of course, you need the codex. The starter sets are just there to get you into the game.

Yes, but I've seen so many people stating here, on Bols, Natfka etc that they contain all the rules to play that I thought it was worth pointing out.

The confusion was that people thought of these as "starter" sets akin to Dark Vengeance, where full rules are included so people can play games right from the box. GW's own wording regarding the ability to play with all of the models as a formation may have added to the confusion.

**Momotaro**

SolentSanguine wrote:
Ok, bad news everyone. It is expected that you get the Codex even to play the formations. The reply I received from GW Customer Services:

I'm sorry if there was any confusion. The formation datasheet included in the box allows you to play the units as that given formation, not rules for the units themselves.

For unit profiles, Weapons, Points costs, wargear options etc. you will still need the relevant codex.

We will pass this along and perhaps this will be made clearer on the website.

I'm consoling myself with the mystery extra commissar I received, but thought people should be aware of this.

The assembly instruction booklets in the Skitarii box have relatively complete entries for the Onager and Rangers/Vanguard. They contain stats, points costs, a list of special rules, and weapon and wargear upgrades for the units. What you're missing is: 1) what the special rules actually say; 2) the list of Special Weapons that you can select upgrade options from; 3) ) any weapon or wargear stats. That's where the confusion comes from but basically you'll need the codex.

The insert from the tech priest blister is much smaller and only has the unit stats.

**carldooley**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/40k-new-army-bundles-unboxed.html

They are full sprues with all the options that would come separately.

thanks for this puppy. Apparently, it is a bunch of kits tossed together, and from the spikeybits video nothing is omitted either - the strikes can be built as breachers, the crisis can be added to my collection.

**Drasius**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Firespear Strike Force for the Codex: Space Marines bundle has led to an Aquilla Strongpoint being added to my "to-buy" list. Double Tapping the Macro Cannon is just downright mean. Could run two of these for 2000ish points. Wreck everything.

P.S. To add insult to injury, the way the formation is worded, putting an independent character in with the Tactical Squad allows said Independent Character to benefit from the double tap ability. So if you stick a high BS model with the Tactical Squad, you can get even better accuracy with that Macro Cannon.

~~Which raises the question, can Lelith Heraspex join a Tactical Squad. BS9 Macro Cannon equals much sadness for the other side. Especially when it is firing FOUR Macro Shells. Rain the Strength D!~~Doesn't work. I guess Issodon would be the best bet for a High BS IC to add to this. Taking the Hunter's Eye for a White Scars force would make this extra mean too. Basically, this is just a mean combo, period.

Cypher is BS10 and can join Marines. Now you literally can't miss, yay 2" scatter! Plus since he hands out Shrouded and you're on battlements, enjoy your 2+ cover saves.

**casvalremdeikun**

Dude... Thanks for that. This could be very interesting!

**ionusx**

i like the marine one, could be a good allied detachment to offset the drop pod sternguard that codex marines cuddle like their bestie

i mean they blow up two squads, not even their drop pods. just two squads of sternguard and theyve made their points back, dude the value is sick. the captain could charge in bare bones after the dreadnaught and seriously murder someone, as nobody takes melee weapon upgrades on space marines anymore, lets be adults and admit that

**skoffs**

How would everyone rate them all, effectiveness-wise?
(?/10)

For the Necron one, I'd give it a solid 7/10.
Not game breaking, but a pretty cool novelty effect.

**wuestenfux**

skoffs wrote:
How would everyone rate them all, effectiveness-wise?
(?/10)

For the Necron one, I'd give it a solid 7/10.
Not game breaking, but a pretty cool novelty effect.

The Necron formation can be quite durable unless you manage to kill the Overlord.
But its damage output is very low.

**HoundsofDemos**

I think the Ad Mech one is strong. you get what in my opinion is one of the best HQs for his cost. He can fix things, has strong shooting, is durable, and can heal himself. Vanguard are a good troop especially if you buy them a transport via allies and the dune crawler has a lot of options including one of the best AA guns in the game, which can also wreck skimmers. The formation bonus is nice to as it combined with the doctrinas means your never going to miss.

**skoffs**

wuestenfux wrote:
skoffs wrote:
How would everyone rate them all, effectiveness-wise?
(?/10)

For the Necron one, I'd give it a solid 7/10.
Not game breaking, but a pretty cool novelty effect.

The Necron formation can be quite durable unless you manage to kill the Overlord.
But its damage output is very low.

By itself it's nothing amazing. But two of them working together will keep many armies very frustrated (particularly if using a CAD Scarab Farm as well).
Just too bad the Stalker isn't all that useful in this formation. Yeah, it'll buff the Warriors to BS5, but big deal.
Until someone can find some other way to exploit never ending Scarabs and/or Warriors, maybe 6.5/10 seems about right.

**MrMoustaffa**

The skitarii one is 3 of the best admech units around, being encouraged to work together even more than normal and can practically never miss. Only thing that sucks is you're stuck with a single onager (you want a unit so you can buff the invuln save) I really wish they had allowed a "mini cad" type force with the dominus as an HQ. That way if I ever wanted to play a game I could just use the dominus as a warlord for the skitarii.

That's really the only thing holding the box back. Until a combined Admech codex comes out, the only way you can use these guys together is the formation. I'd give it an 8/10 from a purely casual player's pov. I'm sure it's not amazing for a super competitive area, but I like it