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Your story is why i dislike the whole Stolen valor thing.
First is the name. you didnt steal anything, everyone that had valor before still has it. Why? because someone pretending to be a veteran doesnt take away from what you are doing/ have done
second is the idea that you need to out these people and shame them. I am never for shaming people. What that lady should have done was "Ill go get my manager" Talk to him and see if it is correct. When I have more common sense than the DMV, you know something is wrong
third is the length that people go through to punish these people, no realizing the hypocrisy. Ws reading Facebook comments on these, the amount of veterans that said they would shoot/maim/punch/ball kick/flay/ or behead(all things I heard) was terrifying. All because they feel their acheivments are lessened because of that?

Sensible reaction if you are presented with a paper you don't recognize:

"I have never seen a DD-214 like this, let me check with my manager to verify it."

End of story.

 d-usa wrote:
Sensible reaction if you are presented with a paper you don't recognize:

"I have never seen a DD-214 like this, let me check with my manager to verify it."

End of story.

Or try googling (or whatever the DMV has) it. Remember kids, google is your friend.

 d-usa wrote:
My experience:

Stolen Valor makes you look like an idiot.
Calling out Stolen Valor makes you look like an donkey-cave.

I feel like there are ways to "call out" 'stolen valor' without looking like an donkey-cave, though I suppose they don't really wind up as calling it out so much as amusing yourself.

I only have one 'stolen valor' story, but I enjoy it. I'll have to tell it sometime.

Oh you tease.. don't be so coy and tell us all aboot it as it's clearly a cracker.

 d-usa wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

Now for a real discussion, how bout that Congress repassing a law that SCOTUS just overturned to do pretty much the same thing the old law was doing with one additional caveat?

.

I thought that picture was the goal for all Vets every year on our day

I'm ex military, I've got a bit of shiny tin to wear, and I earned every one of them, (Admittedly some of them were just for being alive in the correct place for long enough, but I was there, so still earned them)
I dislike walts, I think it's fraud and should be illegal if walting is used to garner benefits.

I'll just leave this here....
https://www.facebook.com/The-Walter-Mitty-hunters-club-RHQ-224264854573797/

 d-usa wrote:

I love the BJ's (Ex-G)!

 CptJake wrote:

As much as seeing folks wear stuff they did not earn annoys me, I was always against it being a crime to do so. There are already crimes against fraud, if someone flashes a fake MoH to get 5% off at Lowe's and get's caught, Lowe's can take them to court and some really froggy DA could decide to pursue criminal fraud charges (what a wondrously good use of tax payer dollars that would be!).

Right, and I'd like to highlight an additional issue.

The problem I see here isn't with wearing unearned medals, but rather in impersonating military personnel. It's a security risk. An enemy combatant or terrorist could be stopped on his way to infiltrate a US military base and LEO would have no legal basis to detain him.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Right, and I'd like to highlight an additional issue.

The problem I see here isn't with wearing unearned medals, but rather in impersonating military personnel. It's a security risk. An enemy combatant or terrorist could be stopped on his way to infiltrate a US military base and LEO would have no legal basis to detain him.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on dakka for at least today. A SUSPECTED TERRORIST could not be stopped without a stolen valor law? Really? REALLY?

Good thing the cops only ever stop people due to laws declared unconstitutional. Oh wait they don't. There are other laws to deal with security and suspected terrorists. Stolen valor would be no help here.

I would think that a police officer could stop an actual soldier wearing his actual medals on his actual uniform using his actual ID if there is sufficient cause to think he is a terrorist on his way to an attack...

[img]

 IGtR= wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Right, and I'd like to highlight an additional issue.

The problem I see here isn't with wearing unearned medals, but rather in impersonating military personnel. It's a security risk. An enemy combatant or terrorist could be stopped on his way to infiltrate a US military base and LEO would have no legal basis to detain him.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on dakka for at least today. A SUSPECTED TERRORIST could not be stopped without a stolen valor law? Really? REALLY?

Good thing the cops only ever stop people due to laws declared unconstitutional. Oh wait they don't. There are other laws to deal with security and suspected terrorists. Stolen valor would be no help here.

Where did I say stolen valor law in that post? It really helps to read the post to which you are responding.

Put your outrage away and reread what I wrote. There is benefit to a law against impersonating military personnel. This is only tangentially related to the "Stolen Valor" legislation.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
[img]

 IGtR= wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Right, and I'd like to highlight an additional issue.

The problem I see here isn't with wearing unearned medals, but rather in impersonating military personnel. It's a security risk. An enemy combatant or terrorist could be stopped on his way to infiltrate a US military base and LEO would have no legal basis to detain him.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on dakka for at least today. A SUSPECTED TERRORIST could not be stopped without a stolen valor law? Really? REALLY?

Good thing the cops only ever stop people due to laws declared unconstitutional. Oh wait they don't. There are other laws to deal with security and suspected terrorists. Stolen valor would be no help here.

Where did I say stolen valor law in that post? It really helps to read the post to which you are responding.

Put your outrage away and reread what I wrote. There is benefit to a law against impersonating military personnel. This is only tangentially related to the "Stolen Valor" legislation.

And assuming this hypothetical bad guy wearing a military uniform and medals and using a military ID to infiltrate a military base WAS stopped by a police officer for some reason, why exactly would he have reason to doubt a uniform that's apparently about to pass inspection by actual soldiers on a US military base?

 Laughing Man wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
[img]

 IGtR= wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Right, and I'd like to highlight an additional issue.

The problem I see here isn't with wearing unearned medals, but rather in impersonating military personnel. It's a security risk. An enemy combatant or terrorist could be stopped on his way to infiltrate a US military base and LEO would have no legal basis to detain him.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on dakka for at least today. A SUSPECTED TERRORIST could not be stopped without a stolen valor law? Really? REALLY?

Good thing the cops only ever stop people due to laws declared unconstitutional. Oh wait they don't. There are other laws to deal with security and suspected terrorists. Stolen valor would be no help here.

Where did I say stolen valor law in that post? It really helps to read the post to which you are responding.

Put your outrage away and reread what I wrote. There is benefit to a law against impersonating military personnel. This is only tangentially related to the "Stolen Valor" legislation.

And assuming this hypothetical bad guy wearing a military uniform and medals and using a military ID to infiltrate a military base WAS stopped by a police officer for some reason, why exactly would he have reason to doubt a uniform that's apparently about to pass inspection by actual soldiers on a US military base?

A uniform may pass visual inspection at range, but all the cop has to do is ask to see the person's CAC. Ideally the person would also be challenged at the gate, but it's simply another layer of security. I shouldn't have to explain to you why having multiple layers of security is a good thing.

It's against the law to impersonate an LEO. What is your specific problem with a law against impersonating a service member?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

It's against the law to impersonate an LEO. What is your specific problem with a law against impersonating a service member?

I want to say that it's not really against the law to dress up like a LEO, it's just against the law to try to actually act like a LEO and try to pull people over and somesuch.

I'm not 100% certain about that though, but it seems like it is covered similar to how stolen valor is set up now.

Impersonating a servicemember should not be illegal because no benefit is conferred by society at large on them. Police officers are accorded respect with regard to certain rights, so too emergency service members, servicemen and women are not. It's just another job. Like impersonating a McDonald's worker. It is a matter for the individual organisations to deal with. No terrorist will be deterred by a law prohibiting the impersonation of military personnel. If they want to try it they'll try it. Your post was ridiculous and your defence of it bizarre.

 d-usa wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

It's against the law to impersonate an LEO. What is your specific problem with a law against impersonating a service member?

I want to say that it's not really against the law to dress up like a LEO, it's just against the law to try to actually act like a LEO and try to pull people over and somesuch.

Yeah, Or else the the strip club across campus would have been raided by now

 IGtR= wrote:
Impersonating a servicemember should not be illegal because no benefit is conferred by society at large on them. Police officers are accorded respect with regard to certain rights, so too emergency service members, servicemen and women are not. It's just another job. Like impersonating a McDonald's worker. It is a matter for the individual organisations to deal with. No terrorist will be deterred by a law prohibiting the impersonation of military personnel. If they want to try it they'll try it. Your post was ridiculous and your defence of it bizarre.

Again, read the post or don't bother responding. Nowhere did I say laws against impersonation constitute a deterrent. Rather they serve as a legal basis for detention.

If you don't see the value in such a law then we have no business interacting further.

There is ZERO value in a law like that.

 d-usa wrote:
There is ZERO value in a law like that.

Thanks for your uneducated opinion and welcome to ignore!

It would be illegal to impersonate a McDonald's staff member, set up a fake McDonald's stand and sell fake Big Macs. It would be a fraud.

It already is illegal to impersonate a soldier.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/702

Stolen Valor extended this protection to medals but has been struck down as unconstitutional.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
There is ZERO value in a law like that.

Thanks for your uneducated opinion and welcome to ignore!

I know I'm on ignore, and truly I am heartbroken. But here is more uneducated stuff from me:

1. The only way anybody should be able to be detained is if you think a crime is being committed.
2. Stolen Valor is not a crime.
3. If you think someone wearing a uniform is committing a crime you detain him, the wearing of the uniform has nothing to do with it.

I see zero value in enacting or enforcing unconstitutional laws that don't provide any actual benefit to anyone.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/702

Stolen Valor extended this protection to medals but has been struck down as unconstitutional.

My guess is that if anybody would try to enforce that law it would probably be struck down as well.

It already is a crime to wear a realistic military uniform. The uniform has everything to do with it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/702

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It already is a crime to wear a realistic military uniform. The uniform has everything to do with it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/702

It's also a crime to have anal sex in a lot of states.

The question is not as much "is there a law", the question is "has this law ever been used to successfully prosecute someone" and "would the law survive a constitutional challenge".

The same general section of Title 18 that contains this law also contains the law against flag desecration, which is unconstitutional, the previous Stolen Valor law, which was declared unconstitutional, and now the new Stolen Valor law. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-33

My guess is that if they tried to use this particular law it would be struck down the same way that the previous Stolen Valor act was struck down and then probably replaced with the same added "for tangible benefits" language that was added to Stolen Valor.

My simple way of telling if they are an army vet or not is a simple PT belt joke.

In all seriousness who cares I have better things in my life to worry about. I have had guys tell me they where seals to CIA hit men. If they think it's going to get them some butt then go for it. I was at a ducks unlimited dinner about a year ago and my 505th PIR membership card fell out of my wallet and landed on the floor next to this guy. He looked at it and handed it me then started telling me how he was a sniper in Vietnam. Problem was the stories he was telling me where from Carlos Hathcocks book White feather which I read. I didn't make a big seen just let the guy finish his story and I walked away. My army buddies would have jumped down this guys throat but I'm to laid back to even give a damn

 Chute82 wrote:
My simple way of telling if they are an army vet or not is a simple PT belt joke.

In all seriousness who cares I have better things in my life to worry about. I have had guys tell me they where seals to CIA hit men. If they think it's going to get them some butt then go for it. I was at a ducks unlimited dinner about a year ago and my 505th PIR membership card fell out of my wallet and landed on the floor next to this guy. He looked at it and handed it me then started telling me how he was a sniper in Vietnam. Problem was the stories he was telling me where from Carlos Hathcocks book White feather which I read. I didn't make a big seen just let the guy finish his story and I walked away. My army buddies would have jumped down this guys throat but I'm to laid back to even give a damn

Agreed on the PT belt joke...

And if I were faced with that situation you were, I probably woulda made a snarky, extremely sarcastic remark that let him know that I knew he was BSing... not quite a "cool story, bro" but equally of that effect

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
My simple way of telling if they are an army vet or not is a simple PT belt joke.

In all seriousness who cares I have better things in my life to worry about. I have had guys tell me they where seals to CIA hit men. If they think it's going to get them some butt then go for it. I was at a ducks unlimited dinner about a year ago and my 505th PIR membership card fell out of my wallet and landed on the floor next to this guy. He looked at it and handed it me then started telling me how he was a sniper in Vietnam. Problem was the stories he was telling me where from Carlos Hathcocks book White feather which I read. I didn't make a big seen just let the guy finish his story and I walked away. My army buddies would have jumped down this guys throat but I'm to laid back to even give a damn

Agreed on the PT belt joke...

And if I were faced with that situation you were, I probably woulda made a snarky, extremely sarcastic remark that let him know that I knew he was BSing... not quite a "cool story, bro" but equally of that effect

Guy could of been off his meds for all I know. Last thing I wanted to do was make a huge seen at a banquet my buddy was hosting. 20 years ago it might have been another ending but I'm in my 40's now and my wife would be pissed if I got into a fight she was with me.