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AncientSkarbrand wrote:
The eternal blade would also be nice, but once again would mean forgoing the armour.

Where do you see that? The Eternal Bade is an exalted reward. I don't see anything that says if you take an exalted reward you lose the Hellforged Artifacts.

I might be just missing the rule. It happens a lot. Thanks!

 labmouse42 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
The eternal blade would also be nice, but once again would mean forgoing the armour.

Where do you see that? The Eternal Bade is an exalted reward. I don't see anything that says if you take an exalted reward you lose the Hellforged Artifacts.

I might be just missing the rule. It happens a lot. Thanks!

The new Hellforged artifacts say a model can only have 1.

I was referring to the Khorne Prince with a Greater Etherblade. If you roll a bad reward (like the 3+ armour) you could swap for it. It is +1str, so...
Str6 base + Greater Etherblade + formation bonus + Furious charge = Str 9

--

 labmouse42 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
The eternal blade would also be nice, but once again would mean forgoing the armour.

Where do you see that? The Eternal Bade is an exalted reward. I don't see anything that says if you take an exalted reward you lose the Hellforged Artifacts.

I might be just missing the rule. It happens a lot. Thanks!

Yeah, the problem is that the new relics are also called hell forged artefacts and each model can only have one of them.

 Galef wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
The eternal blade would also be nice, but once again would mean forgoing the armour.

Where do you see that? The Eternal Bade is an exalted reward. I don't see anything that says if you take an exalted reward you lose the Hellforged Artifacts.

I might be just missing the rule. It happens a lot. Thanks!

The new Hellforged artifacts say a model can only have 1.

I was referring to the Khorne Prince with a Greater Etherblade. If you roll a bad reward (like the 3+ armour) you could swap for it. It is +1str, so...
Str6 base + Greater Etherblade + formation bonus + Furious charge = Str 9

--

Got it, thanks!

This is the list I'm looking at for the weekend, using the idea from the OP.

Infernal Tetrad
Khorne Prince w/Armor of Scorn, Wings, Greater Reward, Greater Reward, Lesser Reward
Tzeentch Prince w/Impossible Robe, Wings, Greater Reward, Greater Reward, Lesser Reward
Nurgle Prince w/Corruption, Wings, Warp Armor, Greater Reward, Greater Reward
Slaanesh Prince w/SilverShard, Wings, Warp Armor, Greater Reward, Greater Reward

Daemon CAD
Belakor
10 Plaguebearers
3 Nurglings

Would you change anything on it?

These are my more in debth thoughts thus far. I appreciate your input.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Side note, it would be hilarious to land a culexus in the center of this list first turn. Talk about getting your points back.

Yes I know that no one who saw a pod culexus would cluster enough for him to be SUPER devastating but it would be funny.

For serious though, you will have some serious problems with Tau or gladius. Hell, Gladius can just ignore you the whole game and camp objectives. you'd have to land to be able to do enough damage to kill all that obsec and then you're roasty toasty.

If the culexus is going second, the daemons do not need to worry because they are all in the air by that time, and simply flying away.
Don't forget this list can do summoning quickly, and could have lots of lesser Daemons like Daemonette or Bloodletters to destroy the MSU units sitting on objectives so the Princes do not need to land.

Just heads up, I dropped a cullexus pod in a squad of 4 dakka flyrants, he took a millon skyfire shots at the warlord, wounded two, caused him to crash, wounding three, then I boltered him to death for the lulz. giving the culuxus assassin 12+3 from warp cahrges shots is just plain stupid.

Its all clean up from there. They will most likely dakka him to death next turn, but again, still abosrbed 2x his points and has already killed 2x and got warlord. this guyis not joke... cept the pink one i painted and based with sunflower and tulips.... its in the painting and modeling.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Don't forget this list can do summoning quickly, and could have lots of lesser Daemons like Daemonette or Bloodletters to destroy the MSU units sitting on objectives so the Princes do not need to land.

I tried this last week as a 'swooping summon army' and it failed pretty hard. Your Khorne Prince becomes a 200+ point tax, and your damage output is not that great. Sure, you can summon 2-3 units a turn, but they are easily wiped out by your opponent.

I think the better solution is as the OP posted, to just rush up and beat the crap out of anything standing in assault.

What happens when you face a cullexus pod? You can expect to have some big hits come in. Start each prince apart so they can get within 6" of each other after turn one when the cullexus drops. Consider swooping on turn one if you go first to limit hits, then leave the assassin in the dust on turn two, letting the khorne prince play with him.

The assassin is extremely dangerous, and might be able to one shot the khorne prince. If you know the assassin is in your opponents, army, consider grabbing the greater etherblade to make sure your khorne prince can double out the assassin.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Don't forget this list can do summoning quickly, and could have lots of lesser Daemons like Daemonette or Bloodletters to destroy the MSU units sitting on objectives so the Princes do not need to land.

I tried this last week as a 'swooping summon army' and it failed pretty hard. Your Khorne Prince becomes a 200+ point tax, and your damage output is not that great. Sure, you can summon 2-3 units a turn, but they are easily wiped out by your opponent.

I think the better solution is as the OP posted, to just rush up and beat the crap out of anything standing in assault.

What happens when you face a cullexus pod? You can expect to have some big hits come in. Start each prince apart so they can get within 6" of each other after turn one when the cullexus drops. Consider swooping on turn one if you go first to limit hits, then leave the assassin in the dust on turn two, letting the khorne prince play with him.

The assassin is extremely dangerous, and might be able to one shot the khorne prince. If you know the assassin is in your opponents, army, consider grabbing the greater etherblade to make sure your khorne prince can double out the assassin.

There we go, a viable counter to the C-pod. Im tired of wiritng it out.

Etherblades would nuke that poor assassin. As well, simply using psy powers that dont need to hit, or template or blasts will hit him easily. Would love to see fatey D blast that assassin... ha

If you drop belakor from ypur list labmouse, you can bring a tallyband with 6 nurglings squads, one plaguebearer squad and a ml1 herald in 1850, along with a unit of nurgle futies, for all the benifits you get from the incurion. Would it be viable?

Be'lakor adds a guaranteed shrouding, which doubles the durability of the princes.

It's a matter of models though. I only own 6 nurgling stands and 30 plague bearers.

I'm all for the full Daemonic incursion.

For your proposed list I'd swap the plaguebearwrs for pink horrors I think.

I had a question about this list. Could the slaanesh prince take double lash? Take 1 in telepathy for shriek, then fish for iron arm.

I mean, that would be 4D6 shots coming from the prince at S7. that is bound to seriously mess some stuff up. Would that be worth it?

Nurgle is auto wounding everything with instant death, Khorn is S8/9, and Tzeentch is S9. That just leaves Slaanesh as the odd one out for not being super strong. I figure having an obscene amount of shots isn't a bad way to go.

I don't see why not... I've never done that simply because I felt the second greater reward ' s durability buff would outweigh the need for more shots.

Does anyone have experience with this dual lash slaanesh prince build?

It says you can only trade 1 greater and/or 1 Lesser Reward for a weapon. Can't trade 2 greaters for 2 weapons.

I believe it also says a model cannot have 2 of the same rewards. So no matter how you look at it, double Lash Prince is a just the fevered dream of a mad-man

--

Dang, I'll keep dreaming...

I must have missed that restriction... good thing I haven't unknowingly violated it.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Be'lakor adds a guaranteed shrouding, which doubles the durability of the princes.

It's a matter of models though. I only own 6 nurgling stands and 30 plague bearers.

Explains a lot. Still, if you had the models, would you consider running the full incurion? What do you think are the pros and cons of doing so? Obviously, without Belakor you lose out on invis and shrouding, but the Tallyband can tank overwatch through their immunity to it, infiltrate onto objectives to semi-permacap them, and generally be really annoying.

 Swampmist wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Be'lakor adds a guaranteed shrouding, which doubles the durability of the princes.

It's a matter of models though. I only own 6 nurgling stands and 30 plague bearers.

Explains a lot. Still, if you had the models, would you consider running the full incurion? What do you think are the pros and cons of doing so? Obviously, without Belakor you lose out on invis and shrouding, but the Tallyband can tank overwatch through their immunity to it, infiltrate onto objectives to semi-permacap them, and generally be really annoying.

I like the tallybrand. 40 plaguebearers with FNP are extremely difficult to shift through shooting. Even warp spiders in an aspect host - one of the most deadly shooty units out there (on a per-point basis) just pales if your plaguebearers are going to ground in terrain.
(5/6 to hit) * (5/6 to wound) * (1/6 failed save) * (2/3 failed FNP) = 25/324 or ~7.8% of killing per shot. Those are odds more akin to a guard shooting flashlights at marines than warp spiders blasting Init 2 targets!

The challenge is to ensure that the rest of the list has enough offensive power to hurt your opponents army. Durability based armies are fine, but they need to do some damage or they will have a hard time winning the game.

DarthDiggler wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Side note, it would be hilarious to land a culexus in the center of this list first turn. Talk about getting your points back.

Yes I know that no one who saw a pod culexus would cluster enough for him to be SUPER devastating but it would be funny.

For serious though, you will have some serious problems with Tau or gladius. Hell, Gladius can just ignore you the whole game and camp objectives. you'd have to land to be able to do enough damage to kill all that obsec and then you're roasty toasty.

Unless the Gladius has some serious ignores cover that somehow manages to survive 4 psychic shrieks, all the DP's will be scooting on the ground with a 2+ cover save thanks to Belakor.

Psychic shriek would be worthless against most gladius cause they'd just shoot out of Rhinos until you managed to pop them, and most WS gladius have solid ignores cover thanks to hunters eye. Culexus also shuts off shroud for 1 turn so you'd only have your 4+ jink.

I tried this list today at a 52 man RTT at 'The Portal' in Manchester, CT.
I won one match, got tabled in the second, and tabled my opponent in the third.

Round One
My first game was KPs vs Orks/Daemons. I slammed all five princes into a green tide and by the end of turn five I managed to kill them all.
In hindsight, I should have taken the one prince with Iron Arm and used him to tie up the tide, and then use the rest of my army to obliterate his.
I also learned that if you are going to be facing a lot of T4 FNP models, make sure to grab greater etherblades when possible to get that +1 STR.

Round Two
My second game was against dual stormsurge and 3 riptides. The stormsurges D stomped 3 princes, and D shot one other. The last prince died to an overwatch with a rerollable 2+ save and 2 wound left.

The dual stormsurge was a very bad matchup. This was not due to the shooting of the stormsurge -- though one D shot ended the Khorne prince. It was the 2d3 stomps that did the trick, with him rolling a 6 every round to stomp. If there was just one stormsurge, I probably could have delivered enough of a punch to destroy it with all five princes. With two of them, I did not have the 'umph' to crack the nut, and then the stomps came.

If I had this game to play again, I would have kept swooping and just shrieking the tau player down. I got +1 psychic level with each prince, so was holding onto 16+d6 power dice -- more than enough to make a nuisance of myself. Of course, the problem is when jinking psychic shriek is snap shotted, so jinking might not be the best solution here.

Round Three
The final game was against 20 scat bikes, 3 falcons with fire dragons, and an avatar. I swooped until all his reserves came in and then I landed and beat him into submission. Psychic shriek was deadly here.

My opponent shot a lot of fire into plaguebearers in cover, and ignored my 5 princes. After they landed they completely destroyed his army. I hurt his scatbikes pretty badly by using Incursion to summon screamers who then vector struck them. The princes also used vector strike against 3 man squads of scat bikes, forcing break tests each time -- which be'lakor just loved! I then screamed the bikes out of existence.

Assessment
There is a LOT of flexibility with this list. You can fly around and just shriek things. You can glide in and beat face. A lot of that depends on your opponent.
A lot of how you play is dice dependent. In my third game I had FNP on every DP (even using Endurance on Be'lakor every round) to make them Princes nearly impossible to kill. This was just brutal for his shooting.

I don't think this is a tier one army. It's a solid 1.5, and will perform well, but is not something you want to bring to NOVA and expect to clean house with. It seems matchup dependent.

Hey thanks for the assessment! I'm working on a version using the full Daemonic Incursion (Infernal Tetrad + Tallyband + Furies), and can't wait to see how it works.

Question: What powers are you rollling on? I'm definitely going to get shriek on everyone in most games I think. For the rest, do you just go biomancy or do you do any daemonology?

In two of the three games, the psykers were level 4, so this is what I did

: Telepathy
: Daemonology
: Biomancy
(Biomancy with 4th power)

If I already had FNP from a reward, I would sometimes skip biomancy for another daemonology. My goal for daemonology was 'cursed earth' which brought the tzeentch prince down to a 2+ rerollable.
Incursion and Summons were also nice, but after shroud, iron arm, and 4 psychic shrieks I rarely had the extra dice to go around for summons. I successfully cast 2 all day.

UncleanOne wrote:
Hey thanks for the assessment! I'm working on a version using the full Daemonic Incursion (Infernal Tetrad + Tallyband + Furies), and can't wait to see how it works.

Be'lakor really helps this list, and losing him for a tallybrand will hurt. Be'lakor's ability to hand out shrouding is great to keep your princes alive to get into assault.

Also, make sure you have enough points to put into the princes. I tried two weeks ago to skimp on the princes and they were nowhere nearly as good. The princes really start to crank up in effectivness with the greater rewards. FNP 4+ effectively doubles their survival against anything less than D!

That Tzeentch table is so good for warlord traits, except for the last one. The extra mastery level one is hilarious, what did you do with your Khorne psyker? Did he just feel conflicted and kill himself?

 labmouse42 wrote:

Also, make sure you have enough points to put into the princes. I tried two weeks ago to skimp on the princes and they were nowhere nearly as good. The princes really start to crank up in effectivness with the greater rewards. FNP 4+ effectively doubles their survival against anything less than D!

Yep, I'm going to run them with a ton of rewards. Link to list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/679829.page#8465752

I have considered the Be'lakor route, still not sure which is best. Having all the bonuses of the Daemonic Incursion just seems really good, plus having 8 units to cap objectives right off the bat. I may have to fish on telepathy for an extra few rolls to try to get shrouding.