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So, Infernal Tetrad came out a while ago, everyone shrugged and said it was nice enough but too expensive. My main aim is to have a passable amy with some awesome modelling opportunities, so I present to you the following;

Infernal Tetrad
280 - Khorne DP, Wings, Armour of Scorn, 1x Lesser Reward [Axe], 2x Greater Rewards
340 - Nurgle DP, Wings, Armour, ML3, Corruption, 1x Greater Reward
350 - Slaanesh DP, Wings, Armour, ML3, Soulstealer, 2x Greater Rewards
320 - Tzeentch DP, Wings, Impossible Robe, ML3, 1x Lesser Reward [Boomstick] - Warlord

Daemons CAD
350 - Belakor
99 - 11x Horrors
99 - 11x Horrors

1838 - Stick another lesser on the nurgle prince perhaps?

Armour of Scorn is a 3+ save and -1 str to any weapons targetting the bearer
Corruption is a weapon that wounds automatically, no roll required.
Soulstealer is a Str User sword that heals a wound for every model removed due to attacks made by the sword
Impossible Robe is a 3++, but if you take a wound, pass a Ld or be removed from play

If a member of the infernal tetrad is made the warlord, all 4 get the same warlord trait, and there's some cumulative buffs to all 4 dependant on how many remain alive. 4= +1T, 3= +1Str, 2= re-roll 1's to hit, 1= nothing.
5/6 of the Tz warlord traits are incredibly useful (Cast on a 3, -1 WS and BS to enemies when targetting warlord, +1 Invo to warlord and all Tz units within 9", +1 ML [which could make the Khorne DP a psycher!] and finally ignore the first perils each casting phase)

Belakor hands out shrouded to the non-Nurgle Princes for 2+ cover shenanigans. Tz rolls maelific for CE and then flies around summoning if he doesn't get it or does as he wishes if he gets CE. Other guys all roll bio looking for Iron Arm and Endurance. Will fold hard to Tau, ignores cover grav, Scatbikes/WK and IK's, but then that's just how things go isn't it? Only 15 + d6 warp charge, so buffs will be a bit light, but shrouded, CE and IA are all only 1 charge, so there should be enough to go around, especially since IA and CE won't be rolled on everyone every game.

Thoughts on optimisation without blowing the theme? Corruption vs Balesword for the nurgle prince?

I think the Balesword is a better choice most of the time for the Nurgle Prince. I have not tried Corruption yet though, but just with the auto-wounding seems unnecessary. The Balesword is Instant Death and also Poisoned 4+. With a S7 Daemon Prince that means you're almost always higher strength than enemy toughness, giving you re-rolls to wound almost all of the time.

And the times you can't re-roll to wound you still have Instant Death to kill high toughness things, or do extra damage to Wraithknights and Stormsurges if you get caught in combat with one.

If you drop Corruption, you can give your Nurgle Prince a Lesser Reward and the Tzeentch Prince a Greater Reward to help with his survivability. Also a chance at the lance weapon wouldn't be bad either.

I absolutely love it. Sure there are some minor adjustments that could or should be made. But I love it none the less.....strongly considering stealing it!

If you drop some of the upgrades (only artefact I'd definitely go for is Impossible Pyjamas) and go Nurglings instead of horrors, you can squeeze in Fatey...

I think this list is more powerful than you imagine.

Against ignores cover grav, scat bikes and Tau, you can stay flying and hit them with 4 psychic shrieks until they go away.

A WK will not like the Balesword Nurlge Prince and/or Belakor in close combat.

You have enough beam and Nova powers to fly alongside an invisible death star and do some damage.

You can split up and go into the far corners of the board to fish out hiding units. You can gather up and take on pretty much every death star in the game with either psychic powers or combat. You can summon in support when needed.

The only weakness I can think of is getting hit with ignores cover when on the ground first turn and that means drop pods. However only one Pod can have the Eye and only target one prince. If that is real scary, then drop the armor and just roll with invulnerable saves. You'll have a 2+ cover junk save on the ground from Belakor's shrouding once he casts it, so you shouldn't need armor at that point.

Can you take Belakor in a Daemon CaD? He is not listed in a CD codex.

He is listed in the new codex book, and listed as option for daemons to grab in the incursion formation.

Can you grab him from IA for a straight CD CAD?

The new book dataslate lets you take him in a Daemons army, doesn't matter if it's a Daemonic Incursion or a CAD.

He also exists in a separate dataslate for taking him a CSM or Daemons army.

UncleanOne wrote:
The new book dataslate lets you take him in a Daemons army, doesn't matter if it's a Daemonic Incursion or a CAD.

He also exists in a separate dataslate for taking him a CSM or Daemons army.

Thanks. Then yes, he is awesome to fill that role. Go go, gadget Tetrad go!

I tried the Tetrad this weekend and found some problems with it. Namely maulerfiends and seekers that killed one DP in assault. Once that one prince went down, the other maulerfiend ID'ed my slaanesh prince -- and it went down from there.

The princes are great, but when they begin to fall, they fall hard, and they have some hard counters. If only they had armorbane on their swords.

I put up my list earlier very similair to it. Belakor should be able to deal with armor. Also if you roll on biomamcy you have a chance to get iron arm. Also hopefully you get one armor bane gift on some one.

swanson4969 wrote:
I put up my list earlier very similair to it. Belakor should be able to deal with armor. Also if you roll on biomamcy you have a chance to get iron arm. Also hopefully you get one armor bane gift on some one.

Also your Tzeentch prince should be S9 in combat so he'd be the best choice unless you have armourbane elsewhere. And 3++, hopefully a 2++ via warp storm or cursed earth.

Cheers for the critique and thoughts guys, much appreciated

Why is the tzeentch prince s9? Just wondering.

Boomstick + formation benefit equals a str 9 tzeentch prince.

Khorne prince could be str 10 if he got the +2 strength sword and gets the charge off. But that means forgoing the armour.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Boomstick + formation benefit equals a str 9 tzeentch prince..

6 base
+1 for formation
+2 for staff of change
It's a good 10 point upgrade for the tzeentch prince.

The nurgle prince can also grab a plague flail.

Belakor makes a very fluffy addition to a Tetrad list. As the first DP and embued by all 4 Ruinous Powers, Belakor is the ideal leader for the Tetrad (but not as the WL; Belakor likes to manipulate behind the scenes).

This Tuesday, I plan on trying out a very similar list, though I would like all the DPs to have 2x Greater reward.

Side note, it would be hilarious to land a culexus in the center of this list first turn. Talk about getting your points back.

Yes I know that no one who saw a pod culexus would cluster enough for him to be SUPER devastating but it would be funny.

For serious though, you will have some serious problems with Tau or gladius. Hell, Gladius can just ignore you the whole game and camp objectives. you'd have to land to be able to do enough damage to kill all that obsec and then you're roasty toasty.

ERJAK wrote:
Side note, it would be hilarious to land a culexus in the center of this list first turn. Talk about getting your points back.

Yes I know that no one who saw a pod culexus would cluster enough for him to be SUPER devastating but it would be funny.

For serious though, you will have some serious problems with Tau or gladius. Hell, Gladius can just ignore you the whole game and camp objectives. you'd have to land to be able to do enough damage to kill all that obsec and then you're roasty toasty.

If the culexus is going second, the daemons do not need to worry because they are all in the air by that time, and simply flying away.
Don't forget this list can do summoning quickly, and could have lots of lesser Daemons like Daemonette or Bloodletters to destroy the MSU units sitting on objectives so the Princes do not need to land.

ERJAK wrote:
Side note, it would be hilarious to land a culexus in the center of this list first turn. Talk about getting your points back.

Yes I know that no one who saw a pod culexus would cluster enough for him to be SUPER devastating but it would be funny.

For serious though, you will have some serious problems with Tau or gladius. Hell, Gladius can just ignore you the whole game and camp objectives. you'd have to land to be able to do enough damage to kill all that obsec and then you're roasty toasty.

Unless the Gladius has some serious ignores cover that somehow manages to survive 4 psychic shrieks, all the DP's will be scooting on the ground with a 2+ cover save thanks to Belakor.

I'm still not sold on it being a tier one list. There are still a some hard counters.

5 knights shuts the list down. One invis knight can cause big problems.

Belakor can be targeted. Something like a maulerfiend will go straight for him. A WK with a sword and board will fry him. You might be able to swoop Belakor for a turn, but soon he would outpace the other princes.

If you miss one shrouding, the entire Tetrad can evaporate, as T6 is not all that impressive. Mass scatter laser, gauss, or grav shots will wear them down.
Unless you are throwing 5+ dice at shrouding, it's possible to be denied, or just really unlucky.

I'm sure the list would be fun, and thematic. A solid tier two list, but I don't see it beating SL / Wraithknight builds or Chaos Renegades.

Belakor is Eternal Warrior so he's safe from S10. In fact, he's probably safer than the rest.

It definitely still has some big weaknesses though.

 Kholzerino wrote:
If you drop some of the upgrades (only artefact I'd definitely go for is Impossible Pyjamas) and go Nurglings instead of horrors, you can squeeze in Fatey...

Yep, this is what I'm looking at for this weekend.

Khorne Prince, Wings, Armor of Scorn
Tzeentch Prince, Lvl 3 psyker, Wings, Impossible Robe
Nurgle Prince, Lvl 3 psyker, Wings
Slaanesh Prince, Lvl 3 psyker, Wings, Greater Reward

Belakor
Fateweaver
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings

It takes out the horrors -- which will get gibbed by nearly anything looking at them. It brings 16 dice instead of 15.
What I don't like is that it loses a lot of the greater rewards. Those things are amazing for increasing durability.

Fatey also brings huge amounts of versatility. He rolls a ton of spells, and knows all the change spells. He and the slaanesh prince could just fly around causing havoc all game. One game I brought fatey on this weekend, he nuked a chaos knight with a D shot. I --think-- with that extra versatility you could make something work.

Another idea is to bring just a blank instead of fatey LoC and add 3 greaters and 1 lesser rewards to the list. Even a normal LoC is still good.

Yet another idea is to bring a hurgle herald with the bell. With 5 models casting psychic shriek every turn, lowering the enemy global leadership by 1 is a good thing. That will net in ~5 extra dead models a turn.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I'm still not sold on it being a tier one list. There are still a some hard counters.

5 knights shuts the list down. One invis knight can cause big problems.

Belakor can be targeted. Something like a maulerfiend will go straight for him. A WK with a sword and board will fry him. You might be able to swoop Belakor for a turn, but soon he would outpace the other princes.

If you miss one shrouding, the entire Tetrad can evaporate, as T6 is not all that impressive. Mass scatter laser, gauss, or grav shots will wear them down.
Unless you are throwing 5+ dice at shrouding, it's possible to be denied, or just really unlucky.

I'm sure the list would be fun, and thematic. A solid tier two list, but I don't see it beating SL / Wraithknight builds or Chaos Renegades.

I'd actually say 5 knights / Wraithknights would be one of the easier battles. You only really have 5 targets to take out; all 5 of your attack options have the capabilities to do so, and depending on gifts a Daemon Prince can one-round a knight before it strikes; and he has very little effective shooting as most Knight weapons are blasts and little anti-air. If someone is casting Invis on their knight, you have 16 dice to stop it. You also have the summoning capability to roadblock knights and capture objectives while he's forced to use 400pt+ models to do the same.

I'd be much more worried about Tau. A riptide wing can put out 24 (48? I forget how ripple fire works with riptide wing) BS5 TL S5 Ignores cover skyfire shots + 18 BS5 S7 Ap2 Skyfire shots in one round of shooting. Thats... most of your army gone. A single skyray can kill a Daemon Prince regardless of if he's flying or jinking.

Gladius is also an issue. Just too many targets to chase down.



I think this style of list could be fun... I'm going to give it a go instead of my usual GUO + 3 Nurgle princes.

Trasvi wrote:
I'd actually say 5 knights / Wraithknights would be one of the easier battles. You only really have 5 targets to take out; all 5 of your attack options have the capabilities to do so, and depending on gifts a Daemon Prince can one-round a knight before it strikes

The problem is the D. D weapons are completely broken. Any roll 'to wound' of a 6 means that the DP will just be removed from play.

What's the probability of getting at least one 6 rolling three dice? There are three cases:
Case one is 1/6 * 1 = 1/6.
Case two is 5/6 * 1/6 = 5/36.
Case three is 25/36 * 1/6 = 25/216
The final answer is 1/6 (36/216) + 5/36 (30/216) + 25/216 = 91/216 (or 42.12%)
A WK will have 4 attacks, rerolling one miss, then d3 stomps.
With the invlun and FNP, the princes will need to do just over 12 wounds to kill the WK. Those are not good odds for the princes.

Trasvi wrote:
you have 16 dice to stop it.

That's not a guarantee, since one needs 6's to deny invis. If 4 successes were rolled, then the chances of blocking it drop significantly. I agree that the odds are much butter than a psyker-less army, but it's not something I would want to bank on.
Also, the horrors in the list will get rolled. I tried a similar list this past Friday, and my opponent just rushed the horrors with his seekers. Without a 'get off my lawn' effect, the horrors will evaporate quickly.

Trasvi wrote:
I think this style of list could be fun... I'm going to give it a go instead of my usual GUO + 3 Nurgle princes.

I'm with you on that. I like the idea of playing the list a lot. I'm going to try it this weekend at a local RTT to see how it works, I'm not just expecting it to win.

I think the idea vs Knights is to go first, hit on 3's re-rolling 1's and cause enough Hull Points to kill the Knight before it goes. The Tzeentch & Khorne Princes can have str 9 in this formation, and Belakor has Armourbane.

Actually this is a major reason to have 2x Greater rewards on all your princes. At least 1 should get the Armourbane/Fleshbane reward

You should also roll your WL trait on Tzeentch for the possible -1WS/BS. Knights will now only hit you on 5's in CC.

--

 Galef wrote:
I think the idea vs Knights is to go first, hit on 3's re-rolling 1's and cause enough Hull Points to kill the Knight before it goes. The Tzeentch & Khorne Princes can have str 9 in this formation, and Belakor has Armourbane.

Actually this is a major reason to have 2x Greater rewards on all your princes. At least 1 should get the Armourbane/Fleshbane reward

You should also roll your WL trait on Tzeentch for the possible -1WS/BS. Knights will now only hit you on 5's in CC.--

I see how you get the Tzeentch prince up to STR 9. How do you get the Khorne one up to 9?
I agree that the Tzeentch table is the best. Everything but #6 in the trait are fantastic.
Should not WKs already hit princes on a 5 in assault? WS 4 vs WS 9. The -1 is great, as it also lowers the shooting and lets princes get hit by WS 5 troops on a 5.

I've also been playing with some list ideas to help against WKs. You are correct about killing a WK before they can kill your princes.
The sword 'corruption' will help greatly here. Silvershard gives +2 attacks. The 'boom stick' is wounding on a 3+. All of these can combine to help increase the chances of one shotting the WK. Most people will just rush forward with the WK not realizing it can actually be hurt.

Khorne prince can go up to str 10 actually.

Base str6 +1 from furious charge +1 from formation bonus +2 for skullcutter

If you don't want to forgo the armour for skullcutter just use a greater reward for a greater ether blade, which would make him str 9 on the charge.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Khorne prince can go up to str 10 actually.

Base str6 +1 from furious charge +1 from formation bonus +2 for skullcutter

If you don't want to forgo the armour for skullcutter just use a greater reward for a greater ether blade, which would make him str 9 on the charge.

For an extra 10 points, you can grab The Eternal Blade. While the Init and WS boosts don't help much, the extra attacks are extremely useful in throwing wounds on that WK.

Each attack has this chance to wound the WK.
(2/3 to hit) + (1/6 * 2/3 reroll ones) = 7/9 to hit * 2/3 to wound * 2/3 failed Invuln * 2/3 failed FNP = 23% of wounding per attack.
This means you need ~26 attacks like that to kill a WK.

At first glance that seems astromical, but it's not that hard to get if you focus your army. An Eternal Blade prince should get 8 attacks on the charge. The slaanesh prince with the silvershard should get another 8 - and it works much better if he got fleshbane. The Nurgle prince, Be'lakor and the Tzeentch prince are 6 more each.
That's a total of 34 attacks, enough to get the job done, even if the slaanesh prince failed to get fleshbane.

My plan for this weekend is to take psychic shrieks on each prince to be throwing out 5 shrieks a turn plus buffs. That, plus any shooting powers the princes get hopefully will take down the WK quickly.

A single imperial knight will fall even more quickly.

----------------------

Edit : Once you have cracked the WK, the rest of the eldar army is not that scary. Scat bike squads can get hammered by psychic shriek.

where did you find skullreaver gives +2 str?

Ok I removed the armour and now my keeper is psycher level 3

The eternal blade would also be nice, but once again would mean forgoing the armour.