Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

=Angel= wrote:

You're blaming the victim, which is worse.

I'm not defending Mantic, promises have been made of a miniature nature. I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

Delays happen. That isn't the issue here.

The responsible thing to do is be up front about it, apologize and make amends in whatever way you can. Simply say "We don't have your stuff and it's going to be a long time until we can get it to you". That's the honest response. Then as a customer I don't have to check my mailbox every day and get more and more angry each time you make a false promise.


The problem is when you keep saying "checks in the mail" (so to speak) over and over when you damn well know you haven't sent anything. Stall tactics and lying to appease customers is lame, no matter how much people try to defend/excuse it.

 Polonius wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

Did you actually read my post? First, my biggest concern wasn't that there was a delay, but that I was never told that there was going to be a delay, but rather repeatedly assured that my stuff will be sent right out. Second, when I pointed out that I felt mislead, the customer service rep described that as nonsense. Third, while I did not explicitly ask for a refund, I certainly implied that I'd be open to that, especially since I bought what I needed from another vendor.

I mean, to an extent, you are correct. I pledged a kickstarter knowing full well there could be delays or even failure. I highly doubt that Mantic would want to adopt that defense.

I'm not defending them. I'm pointing out that, for all it's benefits and for all it has done for wargaming/tabletop gaming, Kickstarter still routinely throws up stuff like this.

 Polonius wrote:
I mean, to an extent, you are correct. I pledged a kickstarter knowing full well there could be delays or even failure.

And that's all I was saying. I'm not chastising anyone for going the KS route and I'm not saying you shouldn't get your stuff. And getting mad is entirely reasonable when you don't get your stuff.
But this isn't the first time this has happened and I'm not shocked or surprised.

I'm not surprised at the delay, although I'm somewhat puzzled because the delay isn't for something that requires production, but is in fact something procured from a third party.

I'm not even that surprised by the inconsistent reassurances I received. As I noted, I'm sure Customer Service was given those assurances by the inventory and logistic people.

What does surprise me is that my frustration was met with hostility.

 =Angel= wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I pledged the Kings of War 2 Kickstarter,

I found the problem.
The problem is that people forget that kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
You are paying money and then they have to go and make and ship your product.

I'm not defending Mantic, promises have been made of a miniature nature. I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

People are not getting mad because of delays or even the problems - they are getting annoyed because of lack of communication and transparency.

There is a difference.

There is also a suspicion, on my part at least, that the lack of communication is internal as well as external - that some of the folks at Mantic are not passing on problems to other folks at Mantic, and thereby are crippling any attempt to fix the problems.

As for how much damage a lack of internal communications can do to a company, ask TSR....

The Auld Grump - where the accounting department was not talking to the production department....

I've had my issues with them, so my suggestion to you (and Bob) is to do what I'm now doing (and did).

Contact Ronnie directly to get your missing stuff sorted out or refunded. Be apologetic at needing to contact the boss of the company but clearly share your frustration, and include as much of the contact chain that has led you to this point as possible, including names. Then enjoy the games, buy their (rules or completed boxed) product either direct or from FLGS/etailers but avoid their KS in future as much as possible. Which is made easier by their current approach to shipping estimated during KS campaigns vs actual charged costs.

There's not a lot they produce that can't be proxied from other companies' models (particularly GW, in a rather ironic twist of fate) and being in the US, you have excellent access to Miniature Market's prices and sales if there's stuff you need.

I'm down to my Warpath PM with the $200 I've got sitting on it. I'll check the PM next pay and either finalise the thing or asking for a refund sans fees, and then I'm done with Mantic's KS. At least until I get my final product from the Warpath KS in 2018. I'd probably just go for X number of corporation plastic sprues, since I'm losing any interest I had in their boxed games.

I'm letting my DS KS issues ride through their ticket system for the time being. I emailed them last week for an update since I hadn't heard from them in almost a month (They initially told me "We aim to resolve your issue within a week and we will keep you updated." *cough* I received this form letter in reply.

Hi,
I am sorry for how long you are having to wait. Your order is in a queue to be packed and dispatched to you. We have a large back log of Dungeon Saga items for the warehouse team to work through.
Thank you again for your patience,
Matt

 =Angel= wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I pledged the Kings of War 2 Kickstarter,

I found the problem.
The problem is that people forget that kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
You are paying money and then they have to go and make and ship your product.

I'm not defending Mantic, promises have been made of a miniature nature. I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

Yet other people who have pledged for the same kickstarter have recieved theirs, MONTHS ago. He has also been given false information and no information.

I won't back another Mantic KS. They refunded my Warpath $1 pledge two months after I asked for a refund on it because I was so ticked at the handling of my KOW pledge which was lost and bungled by Rich. I'll use other companies figures for the game. but the rules are fun (thanks rules committee), and I have played since first edition also.

 Azazelx wrote:

I'm letting my DS KS issues ride through their ticket system for the time being. I emailed them last week for an update since I hadn't heard from them in almost a month (They initially told me "We aim to resolve your issue within a week and we will keep you updated." *cough* I received this form letter in reply.

Hi,
I am sorry for how long you are having to wait. Your order is in a queue to be packed and dispatched to you. We have a large back log of Dungeon Saga items for the warehouse team to work through.
Thank you again for your patience,
Matt

Wow... They just have no plan or strategy. I'm sorry your waiting on your whole pledge, I was at least able to paint my mega armies!

I know my issue will get resolved. Not sure when, but it will. And then it's only buying mantic from third parties!

Sounds like one of those places where everyone is happy to forward "this and that needs to be done" emails to each other up and down the office for months but nobody likes to actually stand up and go pack a damn order.

KS are their own beast in a way but Mantic is quite small so with so few employees I bet you could get what you need or go straight to Ronnie, he's a great chap. Email though, or politely in person, but he confesses emails as a written reminder works better for him. Good luck, iOS it works out for you

 VeteranNoob wrote:
KS are their own beast in a way but Mantic is quite small so with so few employees I bet you could get what you need or go straight to Ronnie, he's a great chap. Email though, or politely in person, but he confesses emails as a written reminder works better for him. Good luck, iOS it works out for you

That's a load of gak I've been hearing for years - 'They're a small company, cut them some slack'. Every Kickstarter it gets trotted out to explain their failures. Well, if they want to be a big boy in the industry, it's time to act like it, and not pull out the wife beater 'We'll change, baby. This time. really!' excuse every Kickstarter. And it says a lot when the only way you can get any attention is to complain to the president, or embarrass them on facebook.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm not surprised at the delay, although I'm somewhat puzzled because the delay isn't for something that requires production, but is in fact something procured from a third party.

Pretty much everything that Mantic sell comes from third parties often with different lead times. The movement trays are a constant problem and their supplier is unable to supply them at a fast enough rate to satisfy demand - hence they are still listed as "pre-order" on the web site to try and manage expectations. The token sets also sold out far quicker than expected and have taken an age to come back in stock.

Unfortunately I have encountered several people in your situation around the internet recently. The thing is Mantic used to have excellent customer service (but lousy warehouse picking). I'm really hoping Zak and the new software can make a difference but it seems for the moment at least there is still a big pile of prior issues to work through.

 =Angel= wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I pledged the Kings of War 2 Kickstarter,

I found the problem.
The problem is that people forget that kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
You are paying money and then they have to go and make and ship your product.

I'm not defending Mantic, promises have been made of a miniature nature. I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

No people get mad for having mispacked, missing or broken items and getting the rub around when they contact customer services. They get frustrated when they constantly get told the item will be there soon and are still waiting six months later. They get mad not with sligjt delays but with poor quality or incorrect products and problems not getting fixed meaning they are not getting what they paid for. Before mantic lived on kickstarter the customer service was pretty decent. However it has gone seriously downhill in recent years.

Mantic's problems aren't just CS, though. They're running more KS than they can handle, their sculpts are inconsistent, they've released weak rulesets (ie. the DS advanced rules), swapped sculpts without telling backers, and even had tiles with thumbprints in them! It doesn't matter how great of a "chap" Ronnie is. He needs to put out better QC'ed product.

Stop being a fan and start being a supportive but discerning customer. You owe them nothing, and nothing you can do will change how the company is run.

Keep pushing for the products you've paid for - they owe you that.

I've supported Mantic from the start, but since Deadzone I won't Kickstart Mantic minis, I won't buy unseen from them and I avoid restic completely.

need to say that mantic games are honest company and always do theyr kickstarter till the finish and most of promises done and promo items are good

Quite frankly I don't like Mantic's products at all. Sure they're affordabke but the Corporation Marines are just ugly. If I got bad product from them I'd let them have it.

Well, I finally received my missing KOW2 stuff. Last week I'd received an email saying it had shipped and then Mantic closed out my ticket without waiting to find out if it actually arrived. Considering how many times They had told me it shipped, that seemed a bit presumptuous. Now that it has arrived I feel compelled to give an account of it.

Everything I had ordered arrived in retail packaging, including those precious Mantic Points. Even Blaine on Dino was included, and the cast looks like a quality Prodos job. However, they also threw in some extras, like flowers and chocolate for wargames. They sent me the hardback 2nd edition book and the gamer's edition, both of which are very nice, as well as a poster with a WHFB 5th- style painting of an Abyssal sorcerer rocking out at the head of an Abyssal army. Nice. They also threw in an Abyssal Fiend, which I appreciate. Books make me swoon, but I the models I take home.

They also included a Ronnie the Bard, a prize for my collection.


So now they have soothed over a lot of my issues with the company. While I might not go into a pledge manager with such gusto next time, at least I don't still have an unresolved issue casting a shadow over everything Mantic does anymore. I really hope Mantic continues to fix their backlog of issues and take steps to prevent them from reoccurring.

I'm happy to admit that I have received all of my pledged for items. In fact, I ended up getting three packages: the first was the items they sent last, the second was what they had told me they'd ship first, and the last was everything one more time.

One of the packages had a return address in the Netherlands, and all were shipped by different methods.

I'm very happy to have everything I ordered, plus a plethora of extra movement trays.