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I prefer my own armies to be as WYSIWYG as possible.

I would also prefer to play against WYSIWYG armies... but I would rarely refuse a game over it.

I'm fine with letting it slip sometimes.... in moderation. If you say "this guys sword is an axe, but this guys sword is a power fist, and this guy doesn't actually have a power weapon at all even though he's modeled with one, oh and this guy's plasma pistol isn't a plasma pistol but this one is...."

NO. STOP. PLEASE.

But if it's "All my plasma guns are grav guns" or "none of my swords count as power weapons" or something like that it's fine. Sometimes you just want to try something different but don't feel like buying more models, or maybe we're playing at less points than usual so you can't afford power weapons but still want to use those models, etc.

I'm most certainly fine with others doing it in moderation, and I do expect others to allow me to do it within moderation as well. If you really are adamant about it I can play WYSIWYG, but I may not be the happiest camper about it, especially if it's a heavy handicap on me.

What can I say? I like to have a bunch of guys with cool looking power weapons even if I can't afford to spend the points on those weapons, it adds some variety and makes sergeants stand out. I'll make it obvious too, like "no one except my HQ actually has a power weapon". Please let me have my fun. It really isn't that hard to remember.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I am fan of the "Just Don't Confuse me" rule I don't care if your all exotic xenos weapons are really bright lances instead of starlances just don't mix them. I can't tell the difference any way.
The stores around here don't enforce anything at all. GW stores kinda enforce using GW minis but that's it.

What this man said.

"All of my plasma guns are really melta guns."

Cool. let's play.

"This PG is a flamer, this PG is a melta, this PG is a missile launcher, and those PGs are plasma cannons. Oh, I forgot that half of those bolters are Plasma Guns."

No thank you


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 insaniak wrote:
I prefer my own armies to be as WYSIWYG as possible.

I would also prefer to play against WYSIWYG armies... but I would rarely refuse a game over it.

Also this. I am a strict WYSIWYG player and I appreciate players that do the same

I'm too stubborn to Proxy and much rather convert up something new over the weekend to bring next game.

I'm trying to break this habit so my wallet and storage space can thank me.




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Most "proxy armies" I see are usually power gamers trying out the new Broken, but aren't committed enough to design an army around it...

I am also stubbornly WYSIWYG at my own disadvantage and stick to the axes and mismatched weapon combos just because...

I play daemons. So if anyone tries to enforce WYSIWYG with me, they're probably gonna get yelled at.

If anyone is unfamiliar with the daemon book, this is because we get random gifts. However, the random gifts can become forced to certain items, like the grimoire, and so those items that are forced are modeled on.

I'd encourage it whenever possible, but will never refuse a game or even say a thing against someone not applying it to the letter. First, because as long as it's made clear who has what, keeping track of it is not that difficult. Second, there are quite a number of times when it's actually nigh-impossible to make rules and models fit completely (I'm not gonna tell an IG player that he can't run his metal catachans as carapace veterans).

There's also the fact that gear options that existed in the past are no longer available, and as such certain conversions (and even official models!) are just not WYSIWYG-friendly. There are some cases where I'm not goint to be too demanding if rule of cool applies, i.e. someone bringing a nicely converted or alternative model Daemon Prince with a certain weapon selection that can't be represented with the current rules.

im still learning and building so proxie left and right. right now just have 1 vindicator, 2 tactical, 2 deathwing termi, 1 rw cmd, 1 bike, 1 atk bike squads, typhoon speeder and darkshroud squads at full strength.

eventually ill have 6 battle company's each with different loadouts for them. I am building the whole da chapter, contemplated all plasmaas thats what I gather they were equipted with as legion I..

I only play wifh a couple neighbors. not in the stores. cant smoke indoors at local stores.

so right now im proxing weapons as I learn what does what in battle against what. as I expand and model properly.

totally fine with someone saying they want to use plasma instead of the modelled melta. What are they supposed to buy another tac squads and equip them with plasma instead? GW does not need that much money. hell i don't mind if someone takes card board boxes and say hey thats my rhino. personally i think the tourney seen should be more forgiving and not let people buy there way to the top.

I always go wysiwyg (which isn't hard with orks because of so few options and the ease of kitbashing), mainly because I find it more fun, and easier to keep track of. Most of the people I play with are wysiwyg, too, but at the same time, I'm still a bit too green to have every gun model memorized, so I'm fine with a bit of substitutions. Just keep it reasonable.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I play daemons. So if anyone tries to enforce WYSIWYG with me, they're probably gonna get yelled at.

If anyone is unfamiliar with the daemon book, this is because we get random gifts. However, the random gifts can become forced to certain items, like the grimoire, and so those items that are forced are modeled on.

Yep.
Not all swords are etherblades though, not even all ethery looking ones.
So the prince without a token (need to keep track of 17 powers, 5 greater gifts and a warlord trait somehow) for his gift has mastercrafted and +1S.
I made a large book (for 28mm scale) that serves a the WYSIWYG grimoire and as a token marking who has the effect.

Converted heralds just need to stand out. Converted princes and greater daemons can sometimes be either-or which is fine by me, but you can certainly add the non-random stuff (like wings if it is supposed to fly).

Personally, I'm totally fine with proxies. At the end of the day this is an expensive hobby so if you want to count your tac squad as a dev squad I'm totally cool with that (especially considering that you need FOUR devastator kits to make one unit of missile launchers). But I've also got a pretty vivid imagination. I mean, I've fought against a necron army that counted as eldar. I didn't even see necrons anymore when I was told what units they were counting as.

Obviously it isn't okay to perpetually proxy. If you're going to continue using a certain unit then it should be added to your collection. But even then smaller forms of counts as are still okay in my book. I get that magnetizing can be a daunting task so I give no [censored] if sometimes your flamer is a plasma or melta.

Like most people I prefer WYSIWYG and my armies are slowly becoming more magnetized to help with that gambit.

Play it don't enforce it (within reason). Proxying can be confusing and I've lost a match before because I charged a unit thinking it was something only to find that it's not (can't recall too late right now to recall) it was bad. Built up to it for a few turns so when it happened I didn't want to backtrack and basically sacrificed my attack squad

I'm perfectly fine with having a weapon stand in for another. When I built the bulk of my Marines when I was younger, I was under the impression that flamer+missile launcher was actually a worthwhile combination. Now that I know better I typically proxy those weapons as Plasma Guns and other things. So I'm fine with it if my opponent wants to proxy something, so long as he lets me know what's what, and he doesn't try to change things up mid game

I strictly enforce it!

...on myself!

My gaming buddies (jokingly) call me OCD.. and Very very thematic with my army. I like to convert special HQs and everything and make sure that troops that hit the ground have exactly what they're supposed to be equipped with. Because that's part of the enjoyment for me personally, and I know it's nice for my opponent to look at my force and know that he's looking ah exactly whats there.

Now, do I proxy? Sure!

I will proxy in Units for testing purposes, especially in 30k to see if unit XYZ performs in a fun enough way for me to justify dumping the time money and effort into creating that squad for a full time slot on my roster.

Now for others I get it, this isn't a thing to do for them, because of Budget, time, or even "i wanna try this out this week". I have absolutely no problem with that either, it keeps you in the game and lets you enjoy it, go for it, as long as you can keep track of it.

Good Example: one of our guys that just got back into the game that hasn't played since 3rd Edition, obviously has to proxy things and is in the mode of testing things, so he marks his units down on note cards with a colored corner with all their gear, and uses a little glass "gem" marker of the same color next to the unit for quick reference. It works great.

Bad Example: (don't do this! It makes people sad)
There was a guy, who no longer plays around us. His army "Proudly" consisted of a bunch of half assembled Dark Eldar, some Dark Vengeance Chaos, and some Black Reach Marines, all kept loosely in a toolbox.

Every week he would throw together a "list" for an army using this conglomeration of models, everything being a proxy for something else. One day he came in, dumped his toolbox out and said he wanted to play a game with someone, he wanted to play as Blood Angels and said he had a list from his new Codex.
Someone who was new to the store but not the game, asked him where his blood Angels were and he said he was proxying, so the guy asked him why he bought a Codex and no models, he went apeshit on the guy for picking on him.

Anyway long story short after a bunch of putting down people who "stupidly spend money on stuff" and how he would never spend a dime on models cus he shouldn't have habe to and keep pirating Codexs he got run out of the shop.

In casual environments, you would be surprised how often people don't know the difference between weapons especially if they are Xeno. I rarely play against Eldar and couldn't tell the difference on any of their weapons. The best rule is just try to stay consistent. Casual environments lend themself to the honor system anyways.

Generally following the look of a specific weapon is OK. For example, if the model has a Plasma Gun modelled on but the list says he has a Meltagun, that's fine. If he has a Plasma Cannon but list says Lascannon, that's fine. It's only when it's really obvious the model has no relation to the weapon that there's an issue. Like if a model with a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword is listed as wielding a Missile Launcher, then it's not OK.

Median Trace wrote:
In casual environments, you would be surprised how often people don't know the difference between weapons especially if they are Xeno. I rarely play against Eldar and couldn't tell the difference on any of their weapons. The best rule is just try to stay consistent. Casual environments lend themself to the honor system anyways.

I play daemons.
Honestly, if you used meltas instead of flamers I wouldn't notice. As long as your big guns, launchers, heavy weapons and melee weapons look like they belong to the appropriate category I don't mind. I don't even know what Eldar, Tau or Tyranid weapons are, nevermind what they look like.

I have opponents that I trust not to cheat though.

I haven't gone to play at my FLGS for a while (last time was August 2015), but for the first game (Orks VS Ravenwing-I won pretty good-No batrep), everything was pretty much WYSIWYG.

For the second game, which happened a week after the first game (Orks VS Ravenwing again-I won, but it was closer-no batrep), the Ravenwing player proxied a few terminators, otherwise it was WYSIWYG.

And For The Record, this was Casual play.

WYSIWYG is there for a reason, clarity. 40k is a very visual game, and being able to look at a unit and understand it's particulars without having to stop and ask is only proper.

As for those who point out the massive number of weapons and options being overwhelming. While that is true, even then certain details can be determined. For example the number of special/unusual weapons in a unit, the leader of the unit, weapons are often modeled in such a fashion as to indicate their general purpose. For example LasCannons, Dark Lances, Missile Launchers all have a long silhouette and measureable bulkyness; which is indicative of a long range, high strength weapon. So even while you may not know the details of a weapon, there are subtle cues that might prompt you to inquire for specifics.

I can abide by a couple of proxies now and again; I myself make every effort to present my army as clearly as possible to my opponent.

And in a tournament situation or pick up game with strangers I think WYSIWYG should be mandatory.

Of course the Rule of Cool can override WYSIWYG.

magnetize everything is my motto, but as long as things make sense sure... now if you have 10 marines with bolters and somehow 1 has say a plasma cannon and it keeps moving around in the squad to never be hi "oh it is in the back", next time targeted now in the front" despite the same shooting phase... that becomes a problem

I play tau. The signature systems/support systems are cancer. Does anyone really know what an early warning override looks like? What about a velocity tracker? I swear there are more types of signature/support system bits than there are systems.

Generally I've been fine with a couple proxies as long as it's not overly ridiculous or easy to lose track of, as have those I play with. That being said, if it's a long term use unit we tend to want it to be modeled as such within a couple months.

I try to make my armies as WYSIWYG as I can. I appreciate it when others do the same, but as long as I can tell what's what on the board I don't press the issue or look down on anyone over it.

We encourage thought into the building process to achieve WYSIWYG, but do not enforce it provided there is no confusion.

The Only not WYSIWYG model in my army is my Warpsmith. I use the old Metal Warsmith model with the power claw because It fits my army's look better. Other than that, full WYSIWYG.

But just like everyone else has said, as long as it makes sense and it's not confusing, go for it.

Using a warsmith as a warpsmith is taking the p.

WYSIWYG is a courtesy to your opponent: they can see at a glance what they are facing.

WYSIWYG is easier on yourself because it helps remind you the load-out of your models.

Sometimes small optional items it just does not make sense to model specifically (grenades for instance... maybe melta-bombs?).

It would have to be awfully confusing before I would refuse (once this guy fielded stands with legs, no torso... had to really use imagination).

One guy did an AWESOME job where the weapons looked different but he kept them consistent so it was easy to remember what each was.
I found that painting certain weapons a consistent colour helps too like plasma glow being green.

"Rule of Cool" works where if you made an effort in trying to get it to look good, few would complain.

Unless you are that guy who cannot be bothered to glue on the darn weapon, there should be few issues.

 Talizvar wrote:
WYSIWYG is a courtesy to your opponent: they can see at a glance what they are facing.

WYSIWYG is easier on yourself because it helps remind you the load-out of your models.

Sometimes small optional items it just does not make sense to model specifically (grenades for instance... maybe melta-bombs?).

It would have to be awfully confusing before I would refuse (once this guy fielded stands with legs, no torso... had to really use imagination).

One guy did an AWESOME job where the weapons looked different but he kept them consistent so it was easy to remember what each was.
I found that painting certain weapons a consistent colour helps too like plasma glow being green.

"Rule of Cool" works where if you made an effort in trying to get it to look good, few would complain.

Unless you are that guy who cannot be bothered to glue on the darn weapon, there should be few issues.

Agreed. I'm pretty lean with WYSIWYG (if you tell me a Flamer is a Melta/Vice Versa, we cool) as I know how much it sucks to have only what you got and be on a budget. Long as I can tell who's the special and who's heavy and you aren't being TFG, we're good.

That being said, had a moment with my buddy where I almost smacked him. He had a bunch of wolves running around and I assaulted them with my DP, who got absolutely wrecked. Turned out they were TWC and a Wolf Lord kitted out with all the relics, but he didn't HAVE THE RIDERS MODELED ON THE WOLVES!!! Needless to say, I was pissed and let him have it. We won the game anyways (2v2), but I never let him live it down.

At least have your guys mostly put together ffs.

Maybe he was just WYSIWYG modelling invisibility shenanigans?

I play eldar and have a lot of metal exarches with weapons that I don't want. However, I keep them in the squad as it makes it easier to determine who the Exarch is.

For example, my fire dragon exarch doesn't actually have a firepike. My warp spider exarch has a spinneret rifle although he is modelled with powerblades and a twin linked death spinner. (as far as I'm aware there aren't any options to model a spinneret rifle) However they are consistently equipped in this manner so my opponents are aware of this.