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Speaking as someone with two SM frineds and a BT army of my own, Termies both do and do not work.

Lemme explain:

Hammernators in CC do very well against elite/heavy targets. They go smashy smashy, and on the charge are a right arse. However, getting them there is an issue. If you go on foot, someone has Grav or Plasma, or D or whatever. If you DS, they can, at best, assault on T3. Likely only on T4. After standing around in the open for a shooting phase.
If you use a LR, the LR gets popped T1 and costs a ton.

Now, if you are BT, you either used them in a low points game in a LR, or you brought two LR's. Whih means that you probably got some good use out of the hammernators. Otherwise they are just situational.

if we look at the shooty terminators, they only really work as a T2 DS against infantry units, if you give them a HF. Outside of that... They are good for Space Hulk, I guess?

The units themselves are sufficiently durable if you can avert the enemy fire, or just get stuck in really quickly, but both of this are either very luck-reliant, or very costly. And the damage output for a terminator unit that doesn't go straight into melee is very low.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're making them the same cost as Honour Guard though.

Seriously, they don't need a toughness boost. They need an offensive boost. Why this isn't getting into anyone's skulls is a mystery to me.

What's wrong with that? You can play honour guard with power weapons or terminators.
Besides I said that they should be able to carry two heavy weapons. The way I see it they cost too much and do to little. They also can die easily. That's the biggest problem. Unless combat is changed so they can deepstrike and charge your looking at a useless unit for at least a turn. If you bring a LR then your looking at a hell of a tax for a gimmick that is not as effective as it was in 5th.

In the current meta, a 2+ means that you have a 17% chance fail a regular shot and a 67% chance to fail anything AP2. Which there is a TON of now. Adding a wound makes a squad of five terminators feel like ten marines. More resilient and capable of dealing with threats

T5 2W, 2 heavy weapons per 5 and take them back to 40ppm. Solved.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
T5 2W, 2 heavy weapons per 5 and take them back to 40ppm. Solved.

Wow, lol that might be a little over the top. If that's your fix for Terminators I'd like to see your fix for Ogryn that are currently 45 points per model.


I'd be fine with having one in three models with a heavy weapon. I'm also in favor of being able to mix and match types of terminators. With my Dark Angels I've been putting Cyclone missile launchers on lightning claw terminators for a long time. Shoot heavily when you want, assault when you need to.

Does anyone remember back in 3rd edition when Terminator armor gave you an additional attack because it automatically came with Terminator Honors? Bring that back, so the Sargent has one more attack.

 cuda1179 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
T5 2W, 2 heavy weapons per 5 and take them back to 40ppm. Solved.

Wow, lol that might be a little over the top. If that's your fix for Terminators I'd like to see your fix for Ogryn that are currently 45 points per model.


I'd be fine with having one in three models with a heavy weapon. I'm also in favor of being able to mix and match types of terminators. With my Dark Angels I've been putting Cyclone missile launchers on lightning claw terminators for a long time. Shoot heavily when you want, assault when you need to.

Does anyone remember back in 3rd edition when Terminator armor gave you an additional attack because it automatically came with Terminator Honors? Bring that back, so the Sargent has one more attack.

logically if terminator honors gave you +1 attack that'd mean vanguard and sternguard vets should get +1 attack. not something I'm opposed to but..

Would a first-turn teleport option be of any help to them?

Also, what do you guys think about having more character upgrades for the unit? Perhaps an option making one guy an apothecary?


I'd like to point out Grey knights terminators. Back in the OLD Deamon Hunters codex (the first one) All the Characters could buy a psycannon as a replacement for their ranged weapon. If that were to come back it would definitely make GK terminators better (and all the other units too).

 cuda1179 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
T5 2W, 2 heavy weapons per 5 and take them back to 40ppm. Solved.

Wow, lol that might be a little over the top. If that's your fix for Terminators I'd like to see your fix for Ogryn that are currently 45 points per model.


I'd be fine with having one in three models with a heavy weapon. I'm also in favor of being able to mix and match types of terminators. With my Dark Angels I've been putting Cyclone missile launchers on lightning claw terminators for a long time. Shoot heavily when you want, assault when you need to.

Does anyone remember back in 3rd edition when Terminator armor gave you an additional attack because it automatically came with Terminator Honors? Bring that back, so the Sargent has one more attack.

Seems reasonable to me. 1 heavy per 3 T5 2W at 45 a pop. They'd be pricey again, but they'd be worth it. I could probably be talked into picking up a box of tactical if they got those aforementioned updates

 cuda1179 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
T5 2W, 2 heavy weapons per 5 and take them back to 40ppm. Solved.

Wow, lol that might be a little over the top. If that's your fix for Terminators I'd like to see your fix for Ogryn that are currently 45 points per model.


I'd be fine with having one in three models with a heavy weapon. I'm also in favor of being able to mix and match types of terminators. With my Dark Angels I've been putting Cyclone missile launchers on lightning claw terminators for a long time. Shoot heavily when you want, assault when you need to.

Does anyone remember back in 3rd edition when Terminator armor gave you an additional attack because it automatically came with Terminator Honors? Bring that back, so the Sargent has one more attack.

The entire guard codex needs some love so that's a different story. Also it's not over the top as you would still need to purchase the upgrades. The change I suggested would improve the durability, efficiency, fluff and viability of bringing terminators. The problem isn't the loadouts. The problem is that they cost too much do very little and die too easily. Deep strike them and get 8 bolter shots + a heavy weapon then watch them die as they get shot by cultists. The best of the Space Marines chapter shot down by Cultists? Then you can't charge so you just kind of stand there. When they get into combat they hit last as well. Currently they cost too much for that.

Honestly I've had more terminators fall to massed hits than High strength low AP firepower. But to be honest, yeah the standard terminators could use some more weapon options. Most of the time when I've run terminators it's been deathshroud or grave wardens, both of which are amazing. I find it hard to fit vanilla terminators into a list when those are options.

Terminators are simply fixed, give them a 2nd wound and bring them back up to 40ppm and boom fixed. Sorry add in 2 heavy weapons per 5 models as well. I never understood why SM elites were so pathetic.

The second wound really helps mitigate those times when you tell statistics to go feth itself and you roll something like on three saves. Sure, it's statistically unlikely in the extreme, but those few times that it happens you lose so much of the squad that it's almost silly.

For a reason to take termie over artificer, it would help if Terminator armour conferred a 2+ re-rollable, where the re-roll only succeeds on a 5+.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The second wound really helps mitigate those times when you tell statistics to go feth itself and you roll something like on three saves. Sure, it's statistically unlikely in the extreme, but those few times that it happens you lose so much of the squad that it's almost silly.

That's a problem with any expensive model that relies on statistics to stay alive, which is basically all of them

 Selym wrote:
For a reason to take termie over artificer, it would help if Terminator armour conferred a 2+ re-rollable, where the re-roll only succeeds on a 5+.

It realy needs to be at least a 2+ reroll to 4+, with a 4++. Even then they'd need a points drop imo.

That would be a bit much, I think.

 Selym wrote:
That would be a bit much, I think.

Nah. Even running them with the new veil of time power on assault termies, they still aren't especially competitive. 6 inch walking speed on a unit that wants to be in melee is a huge downside. They need absolutely abusive rules to make up for it if anyone is going to bother with them in a competitive game.

Better assault rules would be better, this is more an issue with melee units in general than just termies.