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 Brian P wrote:
I kept saying "I only want to play classic 40k. Single FOC, no allies." The only games I played in 2015 were the Adepticon classic 40k tournament and the 40k Friendly. There might have been one small local tournament over the summer, I don't remember.

Anyway, at Adepticon '15 someone just told me "so play 30k if you just want standard FOC games." I went over to the FW booth to buy the book and they were sold out. Oh well, I wasn't all that excited about 30k anyway.

I went back later to impulse-buy a Deredeo that I was planning to use in 40k and FW had 1 copy of each red book that someone had returned minutes earlier. I said "well, gak, must be fate" and bought them.

About a year after that all the guys I used to play 40k with noticed the Calth box and I said something like "just dust off your old marine army. We can play 30k pretty much immediately. I have the books." We put in a ~$700 forge world order not long after that game...

This is a huge reason I play 30k.

I do like the option for allies, simply because there will be smaller add on factions that will help balance things out in the near future.

The Sisters of Silence will probably be a very small pseudo army. That you will have to ally in, same goes for the Custodes.

The difference in allying in another legion is that to do so effectively will require you to play in a rather large game, which I am not opposed to in the slightest.

I ran my Imperial Fists allied to my Mechanicum against my buddies Death Guard and Word Bearers. 8k game in total, would have been more fun if my Mechanicum didn't give away victory points like bubble gum thanks to the mission lol.

From a narrative aspect, allying Iron Hands to your Raven Guard for an Isstvan V survivors game makes perfect sense, or better yet just build out a Shattered Legion force

If someone came to me wanting to run Imperial Fists allied with Gal Vorbak Word Bearers I would kick them in the junk.

valace2 wrote:

 Brian P wrote:
I kept saying "I only want to play classic 40k. Single FOC, no allies." The only games I played in 2015 were the Adepticon classic 40k tournament and the 40k Friendly. There might have been one small local tournament over the summer, I don't remember.

Anyway, at Adepticon '15 someone just told me "so play 30k if you just want standard FOC games." I went over to the FW booth to buy the book and they were sold out. Oh well, I wasn't all that excited about 30k anyway.

I went back later to impulse-buy a Deredeo that I was planning to use in 40k and FW had 1 copy of each red book that someone had returned minutes earlier. I said "well, gak, must be fate" and bought them.

About a year after that all the guys I used to play 40k with noticed the Calth box and I said something like "just dust off your old marine army. We can play 30k pretty much immediately. I have the books." We put in a ~$700 forge world order not long after that game...

This is a huge reason I play 30k.

I do like the option for allies, simply because there will be smaller add on factions that will help balance things out in the near future.

The Sisters of Silence will probably be a very small pseudo army. That you will have to ally in, same goes for the Custodes.

The difference in allying in another legion is that to do so effectively will require you to play in a rather large game, which I am not opposed to in the slightest.

I ran my Imperial Fists allied to my Mechanicum against my buddies Death Guard and Word Bearers. 8k game in total, would have been more fun if my Mechanicum didn't give away victory points like bubble gum thanks to the mission lol.

From a narrative aspect, allying Iron Hands to your Raven Guard for an Isstvan V survivors game makes perfect sense, or better yet just build out a Shattered Legion force

If someone came to me wanting to run Imperial Fists allied with Gal Vorbak Word Bearers I would kick them in the junk.

In terms of allies, I played a game this weekend, 12k points in total. My Dark Angels paired up with Salamanders. Our opponents were a guy who was playing an Alpha Legion force, allied with Emperors Children, and the other player was Sons of Horus. The narration was the Alpha Legion was a hunter team seaking down small loyalist bands (us) and he called in the EC to hold us down while the Sons of Horus dropped the hammer (drop pod force).

A perfectly fluffy game, 4 guys had an absolute blast, allies were used, and nothing was broken. All in all, the game encapsulated everything that I've spent the last few years missing from 40K.

valace2 wrote:
If someone came to me wanting to run Imperial Fists allied with Gal Vorbak Word Bearers I would kick them in the junk.

All due respect, but what if for example they were traitor Imperial Fists who were angry at Dorn for his mistreatment of their force (perhaps by over-excessive use of the Pain Glove) who jumped away from the fleet at Phall, met up with a Word Bearers force and joined in with them?

Obviously an idea that needs work, but surely in 30k anything is justifiable if you take the time and put a real effort into justifying it in the fluff for your army?

Colonel-Commissar wrote:

valace2 wrote:
If someone came to me wanting to run Imperial Fists allied with Gal Vorbak Word Bearers I would kick them in the junk.

All due respect, but what if for example they were traitor Imperial Fists who were angry at Dorn for his mistreatment of their force (perhaps by over-excessive use of the Pain Glove) who jumped away from the fleet at Phall, met up with a Word Bearers force and joined in with them?

Obviously an idea that needs work, but surely in 30k anything is justifiable if you take the time and put a real effort into justifying it in the fluff for your army?

Which is why there is the Outcast Sons RoW, as well as why FW has been pushing that you chose your allegiance more so that just your army these days.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:

valace2 wrote:
If someone came to me wanting to run Imperial Fists allied with Gal Vorbak Word Bearers I would kick them in the junk.

All due respect, but what if for example they were traitor Imperial Fists who were angry at Dorn for his mistreatment of their force (perhaps by over-excessive use of the Pain Glove) who jumped away from the fleet at Phall, met up with a Word Bearers force and joined in with them?

Obviously an idea that needs work, but surely in 30k anything is justifiable if you take the time and put a real effort into justifying it in the fluff for your army?

More likely someone wants bs 5 bolters to back up their 10 man Gal Vorbak squad charging out of a Spartan.

A lot of combinations are broken, but if the player puts care into it it won't be a problem. By the time you reach a points level where having ten Gal Vorbak in a Spartan isn't a ridiculous sink of points into a single target, you're likely to have a counter. If you knew they were bringing it you might bring ten lascannons in return, or something equivalent. It's very hard to cheese up entirely in this system, as pretty much everything has redundancy against something else, or else is hugely overpriced so as to prevent its abuse.

You can't dismiss a whole army selection like that, especially in so fluffy a game as 30k.

I like 30k because it's a fun way to build and play a Marine army with tons of options, and without feeling like your army will be outdated in no time flat. Once you get a copy of the Crusade Army List and a copy of your Legion's rules, you're pretty much set, and can keep up with releases or not as you desire. The campaigns and scenarios I've played through from the various HH books have been great fun. I especially enjoy Zone Mortalis games. There's some pretty wicked dynamics in those games, and I'd recommend to anyone who's never tried it and doesn't mind a little complexity to check it out.

As far as gaming mechanics go, I like the various limitations it imposes on army list as regards LoWs, FOCs. RoWs, etc.

I especially enjoy Zone Mortalis games. There's some pretty wicked dynamics in those games, and I'd recommend to anyone who's never tried it and doesn't mind a little complexity to check it out.

Man, I love Zone Mortalis. I like to think they were invented so I don't fell bad about my RG special rules when the opponent bringers his whole army in land raiders. Horay for infantry!

Zone Mortalis is great fun, especially when you use the special rules that come with the core rules for it or to really spice things up, use the rules found in the third Horus Heresy book.

I especially like how my Solar Auxilia are all of the sudden amazingly OP in the eyes of some folks, as even their most standard trooper is immune to the "Cold Void & Poisoned Air" special rule whenever it is in play.

Why? Because 10 000 years back there were the better times.
The times, when men were men, women were men, and Astartes were SUPERMEN! Also: WHOPPIN' PRIMARCHS!

I used to love 40k. I really did. I had several large armies...

Imperial Paladins (now sold)

Flesh Tearers (now sold)

Tyranids (now reduced in size)

CSM (about 60% sold off, keeping the rest)

Craftworld/Dark Eldar (part sold, keeping the remnants).

But....I grew disenchanted. The constant arms race and codex power creep just...wore me down. Watching my armies, some of which were 20k+ points become less than bottom tier in some cases just....killed it for me.

BaC came out, chap at the local club announced plans for a tournament and convinced me to dabble into 30k. Why? Because it was balanced. With the exception of a handful of units (which can be controlled tbh if your group is sensible and works together) it worked out better balanced and more fun overall. No formations. No constant power-creep as each Legion had the same core units and best of all? No ATSKNF. Fear was a meaningful USR, morale checks mattered and units had to test to regroup. I love that. I really do.

Especially when you consider the current 40k meta is ATSKNF, Fearless or Stubborn across the board making Fear a giant waste - and the armies it does impact...it seems meaningless for it do so. Woo, my Hive Tyrant made that squad of Tau fire warriors fail a fear test. They're now WS 1 instead of WS 2. Wooooo.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I used to love 40k. I really did. I had several large armies...

Imperial Paladins (now sold)

Flesh Tearers (now sold)

Tyranids (now reduced in size)

CSM (about 60% sold off, keeping the rest)

Craftworld/Dark Eldar (part sold, keeping the remnants).

But....I grew disenchanted. The constant arms race and codex power creep just...wore me down. Watching my armies, some of which were 20k+ points become less than bottom tier in some cases just....killed it for me.

BaC came out, chap at the local club announced plans for a tournament and convinced me to dabble into 30k. Why? Because it was balanced. With the exception of a handful of units (which can be controlled tbh if your group is sensible and works together) it worked out better balanced and more fun overall. No formations. No constant power-creep as each Legion had the same core units and best of all? No ATSKNF. Fear was a meaningful USR, morale checks mattered and units had to test to regroup. I love that. I really do.

Especially when you consider the current 40k meta is ATSKNF, Fearless or Stubborn across the board making Fear a giant waste - and the armies it does impact...it seems meaningless for it do so. Woo, my Hive Tyrant made that squad of Tau fire warriors fail a fear test. They're now WS 1 instead of WS 2. Wooooo.

I 30k because the fiction is more compelling and despite an established knowledge of what's to come it doesn't feel stagnate.

40k is fictionally stagnate and has become gimmicky at the expense of certain types of gaming and many factions.

The models in 30k are better for a variety of reasons but even resin and Forgeworld aside... GW showed with BAC they could have been doing 40k that we'll all along but have chosen to instead gimmicky rules and overdone models instead.

1. The fluff and lore is advancing. We all know how it ends but the road there is full of adventure and untold stories. 40k has been at 1 minute to midnight since 3rd Ed.
2. The rules. It's a more balanced game then 40k hands down. No formations, no cherry picking allies. Formations don't bug me but when I see someone roll out their SM superfriends mounted list or Eldar cheese I get bored fast.
3. The look. I LOVE HH marines. Mk4 is my favorite which is why I picked up two BaC sets when they hit, as well as a few units of MK 2 and MK3 for oher squads.
4. I get to play with my favorite character from the HH books. Garviel Loken can be my warlord. Enough said

Rule wise I like the fact FW tries to write one realy good list that sticks around for a long time. 30k were it's just FW lists vs FW lists means your time and money investment in a army lasts longer, since the lists don't go threw crazy changes alot. Even when they update they are only small balance tweaks. Not rule overhaul like GW codexs.

Modelling wise, I adore the heresy and the conversion/kit bashing fun you can have with it.

The amazing fluff/story goes with out saying.

beautiful minis, great background, fluffy armies you can base off the ones from the books, better balance, did I mention beautiful minis?

I love the Horus Heresy books, and I collect Blood Angels and have plenty of Forge World stuff, so there's most of an army right? Then out comes BaC and now everyone is playing 30k and I have all the infantry I need. Why not right?

Primarchs.
Also I prefer the 30k legions to the 40k chapters, their rules are just so much more interesting, varied and fun to me.

Actual rules for the the pre-chaos legions, stronk formations that have downsides ( so spooky), those character models.

I think I 30k because of the scale.

The armies are far larger on a normal scale than 40k, they are, for the most part, uniform.

The models are really good, like, wow, that Medusa though.

It's really balanced.

New stuff comes out all the time.

40k was my first tabletop game. Back in high school a friend let me borrow the brand new 3rd edition rulebook. I saw the art and read the fluff and fell in love with the background and split the starter set with another friend who took the Dark Eldar. Over the years I built generic Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Iron Warriors, , Death Giard, Imperial Guard and Deamons. I loved kit bashing and painting and enjoyed the hobby immensely. I tried other games but 40k was always my go to.

Then sometime in 5th edition I started playing less. The codex creep was annoying and seeing my beloved Chaos Marines destroyed rules wise sucked the motivation out of me. I didn't even play a game of 6th edition. I played Warmachine and Hordes extensively in this time but I always missed the conversion aspect of 40k and the fluff in WM/H just never pulled me in like 40k.

And then FW came to the rescue. I dabbled in pre-heresy armies in 40k, first with Dark Angels then with Space Wolves. They were Codex armies with a ton of conversions and old paint schemes. After FW released the first black book I started getting the books for the fluff. Then a small purchase here and there for modeling purposes. After BaC came out I was done. A Word Bearer army was built and I had that 40k itch scratched again. All the fluff, converting and a Chaos Legion too!

Now I have the Word Bearers, Mechanicum and am waiting for Inferno to get my Wolves going again. There's also a healthy 30k community at the FLGS so I have plenty of people to play too.

30k awakened the joy I felt way back when I first got into 40k.

Because my Primach is still alive. The Flesh Is Weak

I have played 40k since 2nd edition and to me 30k is much more like the 40k I grew up with and know. This latest edition is a mess of books, supplements and detachments (or what ever they are called) and I just dont have the time to work out what 9 books I need to buy in order to play a game.

Plus 30k feels much more balanced with less crap.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Because my Primach is still alive. The Flesh Is Weak

Amen Brother. I 30k because the army I chose fits a play style I love, combined arms between man and machine. And that asymetrical balance, my army is great with armor, but is weak to something else. Balance is just great, while I look at my 40k IW army and just hate how useless it is based on the build...

I play 30K because it has better balance and is more competitive than 40K, with strategy mattering more than the writing of the rules.

Gorgeous models, even more gorgeous books.
And the game is great fun.


As far as I'm concerned, the 40k rules are really good. The problems with 40k tend to come in from balance between armies, or scenarios, or the rules for specific terrain, or whatever.

I like the way the rules are 'maintained' in Horus Heresy. Because there is only one "legion army list", it's very rare that one faction gets a detectable leg up on another, because if you introduce a new killer unit (my local lot have, for example gone ga-ga over drop podded leviathans as the ultimate distraction unit), everyone gets it at the same time. You don't need to wait 2-3 years for your codex to roll around again.

Plus, forgeworld have proven they're prepared to nerf stuff - see castellax and thud gun price and rule changes, and don't seem so driven to make the new model better.

Plus, as noted, the scale is amazing.

Because my Primach is still alive. The Flesh Is Weak

Amen Brother. I 30k because the army I chose fits a play style I love, combined arms between man and machine. And that asymetrical balance, my army is great with armor, but is weak to something else. Balance is just great, while I look at my 40k IW army and just hate how useless it is based on the build...

Agreed. 30k Raven Guard are a Blitzkrieg-Style army, not the "It's a Trap!" Thing they are in 40k.