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Zimko wrote:
So what you're saying is... if you're 'lawful good' then it's immoral. If you're 'neutral good' or 'unlawful good' then it's totally fine.

Or Chaotic Good, like me.

OP, I don't think the tech is quite there yet for quality 3d miniature printing, but give it 5-10 years...

 thegreatchimp wrote:

Zimko wrote:
So what you're saying is... if you're 'lawful good' then it's immoral. If you're 'neutral good' or 'unlawful good' then it's totally fine.

Or Chaotic Good, like me.

OP, I don't think the tech is quite there yet for quality 3d miniature printing, but give it 5-10 years...

its always another 5-10 years

there are already really good 3d printers out there. its about the cost and how you decide to manufacture it.

if you are doing an IG army with like 10000 infantry then the cost would be worth it if you are doing the print then cast in resin method. doing it 10000 times from the printer, you may as well just buy them.

as for legality? im no legal beagle but im pretty sure its the grey area of personal use. so long as you dont sell it.

but it certainly would be looked down upon by plenty of people. especially at makerbot quality where its really obvious.

 Desubot wrote:


its always another 5-10 years

there are already really good 3d printers out there. its about the cost and how you decide to manufacture it.

You're correct, the precision is there, but from what others have told me, the material isn't quite. Too granular. Fine for scenery and whatnot, but unsatisfactory surface finish for finely detailed infantry. That's what might change in the next decade -development of a finer resin suitable for minis.

some people on here have either been looking at older or cheaper 3d printing methods. A maker bot is not going to produce quality miniatures, but there are 3d printers that produce smooth miniatures with more detail than most GW kits can produce... caveat being they are very pricey. IE you are going to need to spend several thousand dollars for one like http://www.3dsystems.com/3d-printers/professional/projet-1200 but the level of detail would be there. many companies make them and one day maybe they will be attainable but as of now short of planning to make a ton of figures and multiple armies it would still be cost prohibitive.

You don't have to buy a good 3d printer, you might be able to borrow or rent one. There are clubs and organizations that let you use their equipment usually for a fee plus materials. Do a google search or look on meetup.com for a "Maker space" or "Maker club" in your area. They often have 3D printers, CNC machines and/or wood laser saws for use. There is a non-profit organization near me that has all of the above. They charge a nominal fee for X number of visits, you just have to take a safety class. I never tried it yet but I will some day soon. I don't have a desire to print out an army but maybe I would try some bits some day.

Printing terrain and walls is great. Printing models is the same as recast. It is considered stealing. Not good. Just shop on ebay and win low bids.

I suppose I should further clarify. I could make marines, but they'd look awful.

That much I recognize.

But the bigger, less ornate models, like a land raider or something similar, would be doable. It would need cleaning up for sure, and some good smoothing and painting, but I think it could be done.


The picture I've attached is an unfinished, but still 3d printed, land raider.

I think it's also fair to say that many of the vehicles, while they may lack some of the flair of the official models, would still be passable but not pretty. I back this with this string of posts here.

I have posted this image before in other 3D printing threads of a 3D printed "battle wagon" I run in almost every game. If my opponents have even noticed it is a 3D printed they have never said anything too me about it. Or complained about me laying with a 3D printed model.

This was printed on a Makerbot by the way in case anyone cares.

l

Loborocket wrote:
I have posted this image before in other 3D printing threads of a 3D printed "battle wagon" I run in almost every game. If my opponents have even noticed it is a 3D printed they have never said anything too me about it. Or complained about me laying with a 3D printed model.

 SonOfTzu wrote:
The picture I've attached is an unfinished, but still 3d printed, land raider.

Sorry, but these are pretty bad. By the time you've cleaned them up to look decent you've spent so much time and effort re-sculpting the model that you might as well just by the real thing.

 Peregrine wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
I have posted this image before in other 3D printing threads of a 3D printed "battle wagon" I run in almost every game. If my opponents have even noticed it is a 3D printed they have never said anything too me about it. Or complained about me laying with a 3D printed model.

 SonOfTzu wrote:
The picture I've attached is an unfinished, but still 3d printed, land raider.

Sorry, but these are pretty bad. By the time you've cleaned them up to look decent you've spent so much time and effort re-sculpting the model that you might as well just by the real thing.

See what Peregrine has posted here is OPINION. What I posted about my experience using the 3d printed model I have used in multiple games against multiple opponents is FACT. And I posted a photo of the actual finished model I am talking about so you can see for yourself.

- People I have played using this model have not noticed, or not EVER said they noticed my model was a 3d printed model

- NOBODY who has seen this model in person has ever had anything negative to say about it or "looked down" on it.

As for the time taken "cleaning up" and "re-sculpting" being worth it or not is also OPINION. It probably depends on how much $ you have, or how much you like doing those things as a hobby, or your access to the means to 3d print something, or your willingness to experiment with something new, or countless other factors. To some it might not be worth it, and to others is is totally worth it. So here are the FACTS around the model I posted a picture of. Of course my situation is probably pretty unique.

- I have free access to the 3d printer, don't pay a dime to use it and don't have to wait to get a turn, when I want to use it, I use it. It was paid for by my workplace. This model takes ~8 hrs to print. I come in to work, start the print, and take it off the printer at the end of the day. About 10 minutes total setting up the print and removing it when done. Probably less time than I would spend searching for the same thing in an eBay auction and placing a bid.

- The material cost me nothing, again provided by my work. If I did have to pay for the material in this model I think it came to ~$10-$12 if memory serves.

- The 3d model I downloaded for free from a site called GrabCAD. The person who posted it said the model was a test while learning to use software, they wanted to make "something cool" with the 3d model software and posted the results.

- I spent ~30-45 minutes "cleaning up" this model. Not really any more time than I would spend cutting and assembling the same model from sprue. Or cleaning up some frankenstien thing I buy off eBay. This model printed in one print, so there is no assembly of 3d printed parts.

- The bits used to alter the 3d print, and the painting, are something that would have been done whether this was 3d printed or not, so I would not count that as part of the effort.


So there are the FACTS around the image of the model I printed and use. It was worth it to me, so much so, I made a 2nd one close to the first (Never took a picture to post. The first one got a negative reaction on this forum, so why bother?). Could I just buy the model on eBay for the same cost? Probably, probably for less on a good day, but that was not the point for me, I just wanted to give 3d printing a shot. I found the results to be "good enough", and like I mentioned above NONE of my opponents who have played against this model (or others in the store who have seen the model for that matter) have ever said anything negative about it to me, if they notice it is 3d printed at all. If they do notice they are not mentioning it to me.

So in my experience 3d printing is not "looked down on" notwithstanding the negative OPINIONS posted to this thread. IRL people are not anywhere near as negative and a lot more accepting.

Let the negative responses proceed!

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." ~Yoda

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

If you're wanting models cheap you're best off buying used, especially Marines. Look up used lots on eBay that are hideously painted and simple green/ purple power it to strip the paint. If you know how to find the right lots you can get Marines for a 1$ a marine. And they'll be actual models that have what you need. EBay is your friend here. Figure out what you're wanting and go from there. If you're really lucky they'll be super glued and you can essentially rebuild the whole army.

+1
This is what I do and it works out pretty well. It also gives you moral high ground in these types of arguments if that's important to you.

Loborocket wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
I have posted this image before in other 3D printing threads of a 3D printed "battle wagon" I run in almost every game. If my opponents have even noticed it is a 3D printed they have never said anything too me about it. Or complained about me laying with a 3D printed model.

 SonOfTzu wrote:
The picture I've attached is an unfinished, but still 3d printed, land raider.

Sorry, but these are pretty bad. By the time you've cleaned them up to look decent you've spent so much time and effort re-sculpting the model that you might as well just by the real thing.

See what Peregrine has posted here is OPINION. What I posted about my experience using the 3d printed model I have used in multiple games against multiple opponents is FACT. And I posted a photo of the actual finished model I am talking about so you can see for yourself.

- People I have played using this model have not noticed, or not EVER said they noticed my model was a 3d printed model

- NOBODY who has seen this model in person has ever had anything negative to say about it or "looked down" on it.

As for the time taken "cleaning up" and "re-sculpting" being worth it or not is also OPINION. It probably depends on how much $ you have, or how much you like doing those things as a hobby, or your access to the means to 3d print something, or your willingness to experiment with something new, or countless other factors. To some it might not be worth it, and to others is is totally worth it. So here are the FACTS around the model I posted a picture of. Of course my situation is probably pretty unique.

- I have free access to the 3d printer, don't pay a dime to use it and don't have to wait to get a turn, when I want to use it, I use it. It was paid for by my workplace. This model takes ~8 hrs to print. I come in to work, start the print, and take it off the printer at the end of the day. About 10 minutes total setting up the print and removing it when done. Probably less time than I would spend searching for the same thing in an eBay auction and placing a bid.

- The material cost me nothing, again provided by my work. If I did have to pay for the material in this model I think it came to ~$10-$12 if memory serves.

- The 3d model I downloaded for free from a site called GrabCAD. The person who posted it said the model was a test while learning to use software, they wanted to make "something cool" with the 3d model software and posted the results.

- I spent ~30-45 minutes "cleaning up" this model. Not really any more time than I would spend cutting and assembling the same model from sprue. Or cleaning up some frankenstien thing I buy off eBay. This model printed in one print, so there is no assembly of 3d printed parts.

- The bits used to alter the 3d print, and the painting, are something that would have been done whether this was 3d printed or not, so I would not count that as part of the effort.


So there are the FACTS around the image of the model I printed and use. It was worth it to me, so much so, I made a 2nd one close to the first (Never took a picture to post. The first one got a negative reaction on this forum, so why bother?). Could I just buy the model on eBay for the same cost? Probably, probably for less on a good day, but that was not the point for me, I just wanted to give 3d printing a shot. I found the results to be "good enough", and like I mentioned above NONE of my opponents who have played against this model (or others in the store who have seen the model for that matter) have ever said anything negative about it to me, if they notice it is 3d printed at all. If they do notice they are not mentioning it to me.

So in my experience 3d printing is not "looked down on" notwithstanding the negative OPINIONS posted to this thread. IRL people are not anywhere near as negative and a lot more accepting.

Let the negative responses proceed!

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." ~Yoda

Uh, what? My good sir, are you an American politician? Your "facts" are also an opinion. Also, I'm going to side with Peregrine: those look terrible. I've seen many 3D printed models and most of them can't hold a candle to normal stuff in terms of quality.

And yeah, I can spot 3D printed models versus regular ones. Most of them, like the ones you provided, look sloppy or grainy and they also don't feel the same in terms of weight and texture. It ain't hard.

Loborocket wrote:
[incredibly angry post followed by a challenge that others might make angry replies and a Yoda quote to tie off the madness in cringe style.]

I could tell in a second that your looted wagon was 3d printed. It's obvious from the segmented circles. The fact that it's Ork is what saves it. The imperfections even suit it. The fact that you've clearly added non-printed things to it, such as the Ork himself, also goes a long way towards making it look better.

If I were to face you, I wouldn't care in the least that you have a 3d printed wagon, and if it made you able to make lots of ramshackle different looted wagons I would even applaud it.

But don't fool yourself for one second into thinking that it isn't an obvious 3d printed model.

If it weren't Ork, I would probably sniff at it, in an elitist way.

FACT! I think 3D printed models look terrible, and comparing them to GW models quality is like comparing the gastronomic qualities of gummy bears to high grade kobe beef.

FACT! I've played against empty bases and once played against an empty half litre yoghurt bottle as a stand in for a drop pod. 3D printed models are fine. Hell, I'd even put them on the level of an unpainted army.

FACT! The game is fully playable with 3D printed models, but if you're choosing 40k for the superior ruleset, then you've seriously missed a turn on the highway to logic.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Uh, what? My good sir, are you an American politician? Your "facts" are also an opinion. Also, I'm going to side with Peregrine: those look terrible.

OPINION

What I stated are FACTS about the reaction (or in this case non reaction) I have gotten when I have used this model. You can't take away the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE I have had with your negative OPINION of the image I posted.

You are entitled to your OPINION, but I will not let you take away the FACTUAL account of my experience and reframe it as opinion. I am stating the FACT of the reception I have gotten for this model from opponents and others in the store who have seen it in person. Period. NOTHING negative. You have no ability to deny that FACT or to somehow call that my opinion. It simply has NOT happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Purifier wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
[incredibly angry post followed by a challenge that others might make angry replies and a Yoda quote to tie off the madness in cringe style.]

I know the audience/crowd here at dakkadakka all to well.

Loborocket wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
I have posted this image before in other 3D printing threads of a 3D printed "battle wagon" I run in almost every game. If my opponents have even noticed it is a 3D printed they have never said anything too me about it. Or complained about me laying with a 3D printed model.

 SonOfTzu wrote:
The picture I've attached is an unfinished, but still 3d printed, land raider.

Sorry, but these are pretty bad. By the time you've cleaned them up to look decent you've spent so much time and effort re-sculpting the model that you might as well just by the real thing.

See what Peregrine has posted here is OPINION. What I posted about my experience using the 3d printed model I have used in multiple games against multiple opponents is FACT. And I posted a photo of the actual finished model I am talking about so you can see for yourself.

Okay, since you are so insistent on FACTS versus OPINIONS, let's analyze your response to see just how factual your response is.

- People I have played using this model have not noticed, or not EVER said they noticed my model was a 3d printed model

- NOBODY who has seen this model in person has ever had anything negative to say about it or "looked down" on it.

Anecdotes aren't facts. You have no evidence to support this assertion. And in your opinion no one has ever had anything to negative to say or looked down on it. Maybe they did and you didn't catch it.

As for the time taken "cleaning up" and "re-sculpting" being worth it or not is also OPINION. It probably depends on how much $ you have, or how much you like doing those things as a hobby, or your access to the means to 3d print something, or your willingness to experiment with something new, or countless other factors. To some it might not be worth it, and to others is is totally worth it. So here are the FACTS around the model I posted a picture of. Of course my situation is probably pretty unique.

This is just as much an opinion as Peregrine's response. How much clean up time is "worth it" is entirely subjective. Maybe to someone their free time is just that, free. Maybe someone measures it by how much time they spent on something versus their hourly wages.

- I have free access to the 3d printer, don't pay a dime to use it and don't have to wait to get a turn, when I want to use it, I use it. It was paid for by my workplace. This model takes ~8 hrs to print. I come in to work, start the print, and take it off the printer at the end of the day. About 10 minutes total setting up the print and removing it when done. Probably less time than I would spend searching for the same thing in an eBay auction and placing a bid.

- The material cost me nothing, again provided by my work. If I did have to pay for the material in this model I think it came to ~$10-$12 if memory serves.

- The 3d model I downloaded for free from a site called GrabCAD. The person who posted it said the model was a test while learning to use software, they wanted to make "something cool" with the 3d model software and posted the results.

Oh, look! Some actual FACTS!

- I spent ~30-45 minutes "cleaning up" this model. Not really any more time than I would spend cutting and assembling the same model from sprue. Or cleaning up some frankenstien thing I buy off eBay. This model printed in one print, so there is no assembly of 3d printed parts.

Anecdotes aren't facts.

- The bits used to alter the 3d print, and the painting, are something that would have been done whether this was 3d printed or not, so I would not count that as part of the effort.

How is this a fact? This is your own personal opinion on if whether adding parts and a paintjob count as cleaning up a model.

So there are the FACTS around the image of the model I printed and use. It was worth it to me, so much so, I made a 2nd one close to the first (Never took a picture to post. The first one got a negative reaction on this forum, so why bother?). Could I just buy the model on eBay for the same cost? Probably, probably for less on a good day, but that was not the point for me, I just wanted to give 3d printing a shot. I found the results to be "good enough", and like I mentioned above NONE of my opponents who have played against this model (or others in the store who have seen the model for that matter) have ever said anything negative about it to me, if they notice it is 3d printed at all. If they do notice they are not mentioning it to me.

Your post contained exactly 3 facts and a lot of opinion/anecdotes. If you can't prove something then it is not a fact. You can't prove that none of your opponents have never said anything negative or looked down upon your models. You can't prove that clean up time doesn't factor into a model's value because to some people it -does-. You can't even prove that adding paint and HIPS parts count as part of the clean up time because that is entirely subjective.

So in my experience 3d printing is not "looked down on" notwithstanding the negative OPINIONS posted to this thread. IRL people are not anywhere near as negative and a lot more accepting.

Let the negative responses proceed!

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." ~Yoda

Just because you declare "Bring on the hate!" doesn't mean it absolves you of criticism. You are on a discussion board. You should be prepared to defend your opinions.

I am not posting anecdotes. I am posting my experience. I have not gotten any negative reaction. Could someone be saying something out of earshot? I suppose, but it does not change the FACT I have not heard it. Is there any way i can prove this to you, no, but it does not make it any less factual.

Then I stated what went into the model I posted. All of that is also factual information.

Whether you consider adding bits or paint "worth it" or not IS opinion, I don't think i denied that or attempted to deny that. I added it as a point just to make it clear I added "bits" to customize the raw 3d print, so i would not be accused of being dis-ingenous about those parts of the model.

So I stand by all of my FACTS.

Tone it down in here, folks. Way too chippy for a discussion about toy soldiers.

Any further back and forth about "opinions" and "facts" is going to be treated as spam, and handled accordingly.

Edit: you know, there's not much else to talk about in this particular thread.