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I'm relatively new to the game and have a pretty small budget, but I do have access to a makerbot. As such, since I have the .stl files necessary, would I be able to print my basic marines and paint them without catching too much flak for it? Marines are sort of cheap sure, but 30-50$ is a good bit of money for miniatures when I could make several of them for a good bit less with the 3D printer.

For printing 'not-marines' that are original designs that fit the part, you may run into some criticism if the sculpts and/or prints aren't particularly good, but would otherwise be fine.

For printing direct copies of GW sculpts, you would run into bigger issues with copyright infringement.

 insaniak wrote:
For printing 'not-marines' that are original designs that fit the part, you may run into some criticism if the sculpts and/or prints aren't particularly good, but would otherwise be fine.

For printing direct copies of GW sculpts, you would run into bigger issues with copyright infringement.

This as long as you are not selling them, or just printing bits that are not available, no one really cares.

 SonOfTzu wrote:
I'm relatively new to the game and have a pretty small budget, but I do have access to a makerbot. As such, since I have the .stl files necessary, would I be able to print my basic marines and paint them without catching too much flak for it? Marines are sort of cheap sure, but 30-50$ is a good bit of money for miniatures when I could make several of them for a good bit less with the 3D printer.

If you have access to a 3D printer I envy you sir, and no, there are no rules against just printing out your Marines, so long as they don't look like utter garbage.

As far as Copyright infringement. You can't be found guilty of that so long as your not selling them to others. However, there are no rules against giving away models to players feel free to send me a horde of Space Marines

People will look down on you because the quality of your models will be garbage. Even high-end professional printers (costing tons of money to buy, and way more than GW prices to pay a business to print a single miniature) still have visible graininess. Hobby-tier 3d printers don't come anywhere near the quality of the real models.

I would love to print some of the parts and stuff I design, but I have yet to gain access to a printer with a resolution that isn't complete garbage.

SemperMortis wrote:
As far as Copyright infringement. You can't be found guilty of that so long as your not selling them to others. However, there are no rules against giving away models to players feel free to send me a horde of Space Marines

This is not true. The infringement would be such a small scale that it wouldn't be worth suing you unless the IP owner wanted to make a point, but it's still illegal.

Like Peregrine said, the quality is going to be awful. I would just save up for the actual models. But if you're set on printing them it depends on your gaming group. Some tolerate soda can drop pods. Some demand fully painted.

I wouldn't mind my opponent using 3D prints and stuff as I am quite poor myself, even though I am slowly rebuilding my whole collection using GW models. I don't think the stores would like it one bit but for games at the home it wouldn't matter.

 Peregrine wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
As far as Copyright infringement. You can't be found guilty of that so long as your not selling them to others. However, there are no rules against giving away models to players feel free to send me a horde of Space Marines

This is not true. The infringement would be such a small scale that it wouldn't be worth suing you unless the IP owner wanted to make a point, but it's still illegal.

Always be wary of legal advice given on the internet...

Where the 3d printer really shines in the warhammer world is making odd bits, terrain/buildings, and titans, you can sand it down if you are very careful. but almost not worth it honestly.

I have seen some great eldar 3d printed terrain.

Commercial 3d print services make it too expensive but it becomes really chaep if you already own a printer and are only counting the materials as the cost for the print. ( raw materials would only cost you a few euro's max)

Is 3D printing really cost effective at this point and time? Figure the cost of the printer and supplies and time it takes to print one model.

Did I look down on the 3d printed eldar terrain no ofcourse not it is realy cool. If anything it made me wish I would be in the opportunity to design and print that.

If you are thinking of 3d printing GW mini's-> Don't it will show and gw has clearly stated that they don't like it if you do it. ( Not sure where the link was nor if it is actually illegal in your country. But most likely it is)

Its cheaper and easier if you just make your own 2 part molds and use resin/pewter to to cast your models. If you know what you're doing that is. Some people don't know how to pour the rubber effectively to make a nice mold and end up with terrible models. If you take time to learn about adding air vents and such and know where your problem areas will be while casting you can figure that into the mold and clip it off after the casting is complete. If you are using pewter you can use that excess over and over again as you can just re-melt it and re-pour it.

Claas wrote:
Is 3D printing really cost effective at this point and time? Figure the cost of the printer and supplies and time it takes to print one model.

Shapeways etc. -> 30-100+ euro for a small piece of terrain. So no

Owning a 3d printer and just paying for the material
ABS -> 22,50 euro/kg
https://www.123-3d.nl/REAL-filament-zwart-1-75-mm-ABS-1-kg-i504-t4960.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw9Zu5BRCS_OuVibujhQ0SJAD7t4KrAwUjF7tWrr88uLwjFG9gMWFP1KWJdvgIfyXtMnPB_xoCOn7w_wcB


Or even cheaper if you go to sites like these
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?94,38499

Now that euro/kg plastic suddenly becomes really worth it. Just guess how heavy a piece of plastic terrain really is.




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 Xerics wrote:
Its cheaper and easier if you just make your own 2 part molds and use resin/pewter to to cast your models. If you know what you're doing that is. Some people don't know how to pour the rubber effectively to make a nice mold and end up with terrible models. If you take time to learn about adding air vents and such and know where your problem areas will be while casting you can figure that into the mold and clip it off after the casting is complete. If you are using pewter you can use that excess over and over again as you can just re-melt it and re-pour it.

I do not agree with this one.
Making a new Piece of terrain with sculpting clay + silicone + resin would cost me more then the raw materials of just designing it digitally and then printing it in cheap plastic. But molding it would be a great way to make a large quantity of them since it saves time and you only have to make the mold once.



On the "look down" part. Both molding/casting and 3d printing are art forms. I certainly don't look down on anyone who has mastered it and successfully produces beautiful models with it.
Just don't expect any store to like you too much when you start popping up with a 100% printed army and start spreading the knowledge on how to do it unless you are gaming at your local 3d printer shop ; )

A good talk on the limitations and current state of 3d printing can be found in this pretty cool episode of tested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cJKLZg53qw

3d printed models on anything short of commercial grade printers will not be worth it.

They're either around the same price but garbage quality, or good quality but outrageous price. Or cheaper and you'd have had better results buying dollar store armymen. You could maybe make a passable rhino or dreadnaught as they're basically just boxes, but anything requiring details like a marine wouldn't work like you think it would.

If you're wanting models cheap you're best off buying used, especially Marines. Look up used lots on eBay that are hideously painted and simple green/ purple power it to strip the paint. If you know how to find the right lots you can get Marines for a 1$ a marine. And they'll be actual models that have what you need. EBay is your friend here. Figure out what you're wanting and go from there. If you're really lucky they'll be super glued and you can essentially rebuild the whole army.

40k's rules have ticked off a lot of people, so many armies are being offloaded for dirt cheap right now. Ive found marine stuff so cheap I bought it just to paint to give you an idea. You'll need to devote a week of soaking in your stripper of choice and an hour or so to wash them off and you'll be set.

When I was in uni I got access to a super high quality resin printer for my capstone project, as long as I bought the material I could do whatever I wanted.

So I printed a good chunk of my 30k admech army. Painted em up to match the existing ones I already had, and it is impossible to tell the difference.

Maker bot is pretty gak tier quality tho. You may catch some flak for that if anything.

GW fanboys will look down at you but no one else will care that much.

Official models are insane in terms of price so do what you need to for your army and ignore the snobs.

The rules on 3d printing are not yet really hammered out, and could vary on location to location. Legally, as of yet, I have not heard of anyone getting in trouble for doing what you're proposing. You are not selling counterfeits, as you are just using the item that you have purchased for your own purposes. To claim that you are violating GW's trademark by making the copies would also imply that anyone that paints a GW miniature is also in violation of GW's trademark. Merely manipulating the item for your own purposes is not a crime.


THAT SAID

I definitely look down on this. I get it, the hobby is expensive, but 3d printing an army is immoral. You may not be doing anything illegal, but that's only because the rules on it haven't been hammered out yet, and even when they are it'll be easy to get around it. You would be taking something that someone else worked hard on, and making a copy for the express purpose of getting around paying them.

People are quick to think of GW as this big mega-company, that doing this sort of thing doesn't hurt them much, but consider the rate at which this is growing... yeah, it hurts. The person it hurts most is your Local Hobby Store. They need that money to stay in business. It may hurt to pay $50, but when you build and play with printed models, that kills them, because their entire store is founded on the idea that people playing there are playing with purchased goods.

So long as Local Game Stores remain the foundation of our communities by providing a great place to play, when you 3d print an miniature and hurt your game store, you also are hurting your community. If the game stores close down, and communities find some way to live on, then okay, things will have changed. But do you really want to help usher in that change? Personally, I don't.

So there you go. 3d printing. Legal? Yes... questionably. Moral? Definitely not. At the end of the day, if you like being part of a community, you'll just be helping to hurt yourself.

Morality is really based on our own opinions and ideas so I don't think it's right to say that 3D printing your own models is immoral. We could also argue that selling overpriced models to a loyal fan-base is immoral. Personally I wouldn't look down on someone who had printed their own models off, regardless of the legality of it, but how much I liked the idea and enjoyed playing against them would depend on the quality of the models.

I would say that in the interest of politeness it would be best to not use these models in a local gaming shop or GW store but if you're playing privately then do whatever you like, discuss it with your group first though.

xlDuke wrote:
Morality is really based on our own opinions and ideas so I don't think it's right to say that 3D printing your own models is immoral. We could also argue that selling overpriced models to a loyal fan-base is immoral. Personally I wouldn't look down on someone who had printed their own models off, regardless of the legality of it, but how much I liked the idea and enjoyed playing against them would depend on the quality of the models.

I would say that in the interest of politeness it would be best to not use these models in a local gaming shop or GW store but if you're playing privately then do whatever you like, discuss it with your group first though.

So what you're saying is... if you're 'lawful good' then it's immoral. If you're 'neutral good' or 'unlawful good' then it's totally fine.

This, to me, reeks of the endless piracy debates on gaming forums. There will always be some people who try to defend it, but any way you look at it, you are using someone else's IP without consent for personal gain (even if it isn't monetary gain). I agree that wargaming is expensive, but that doesn't give you the right to use counterfeit GW products. If your printed models are based on your own designs or those of someone else who has given you permission to use them, that is perfectly fine, but if you are in any way using models based on GW's trademarks without purchasing them from GW or a third party, you are in the wrong.

The main idea of 3D printers is to make a prototype before moving on to more specialised production methods.
If all you want is a single model, print it, tweak the design, then print it again until you are happy. You then clean it up.
But, if you want to print a whole army, many better methods exist. They are cheaper, quicker, and give better quality. How many of your printed batch will fail, and have to be scrapped?

As for who would object, there is the Rule of Cool....
It is a direct rip-off of existing models, or did you just create the ideal version of that model?
If it is WYSIWYG and looks good, use it. Scratch-built, by any method, is usually held above an official model with a good paintjob.

Zimko wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Morality is really based on our own opinions and ideas so I don't think it's right to say that 3D printing your own models is immoral. We could also argue that selling overpriced models to a loyal fan-base is immoral. Personally I wouldn't look down on someone who had printed their own models off, regardless of the legality of it, but how much I liked the idea and enjoyed playing against them would depend on the quality of the models.

I would say that in the interest of politeness it would be best to not use these models in a local gaming shop or GW store but if you're playing privately then do whatever you like, discuss it with your group first though.

So what you're saying is... if you're 'lawful good' then it's immoral. If you're 'neutral good' or 'unlawful good' then it's totally fine.

I don't really understand what you mean.
I'm not trying to say it's right or wrong (these aren't absolute terms, it's all personal opinion), simply that I don't think it's fair to proclaim it's moral/immoral to do so and that I wouldn't look down on someone who printed their own models. In a similar way I wouldn't look down on anyone using proxy models, scratch-built models, cardboard cutout Marines or custom rules based on the 40k rule set.

I think they can make some great terrain and bits, but overall I think they can't hold a candle to normal models.

Its just like sculpting your own out of green stuff, but different.

Legal stuff aside (which I don't know about), I would have no problem playing against 3D printed models, even if they didn't look super great.

If you design completely unique models using designs that aren't copies of existing IP, make as much as you want.