Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have zero daemons. What I can have is Renegade and Heretics Rogue Psychers. They are Independent Characters who can not join any squads or even other Rogue Psychers. I think...I gotta check that.

The best way to run a Cyclopia Cabal from what I've seen is attached to a KDK hound unit with a Daemons CAD. Daemon CAD runs Fateweaver, Tzeralds and Horrors to pump up the WC count while being able to cast Grimoire on the Hound/Sorc unit. While a Gorepack isnt bad, I think that a KHerald and some min cultists from a KDK allied detachment is better, as it gives the star a challenge taker besides your valuable sorcerors, as well as a Locus giving you buffs (which actually do apply to the Heralds as well)

Yeah I think I'd definitely want a KHerald in there. Locos of Wrath will really make the damage stick on the big multi charges you'll need to pull off with a deathstar like that

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Doesnt seem completely necessary to me. There a variety of ways to build 20+ WC lists with the Cabal HoundStar

This.

I like the daemonic incursion for the warp storm manipulation and corrupted objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I meant that the Warphost isnt necessary in the sense that there's more than one way to skin a cat. You'll definitely want more than 9 WC though. Probably in the 15-17 range minimum of you want to be competitive.

Horrors are a great way to get these charges. 1k sons are way to expensive to use for your psychic batteries.

You can get 15 WC off the cabal alone. Better than that even because you can get rerolls on them all, if you want it. I don't see the need to even use allied daemons, really, unless you just want to summon without perils. But I found with a Blood Host and the Cabal combined, you can bring a fair number of units in each turn. At least 1-2.

Last game I played, which lasted 4 turns, I summoned:
2 Squads of Bloodletters (Summoning)
2 Squads of 3 Bloodcrushers (One Blood Tithe, One Incursion)
1 Bloodthirster (Blood Tithe)

That was quite a lot, really. I dont' think you need too much more than that in a game. Shriek doesn't require much WC either, so batteries are not needed.

What about this:

Cabal:

Sorc: VotLW, ML3, F Axe, Bike, Spell Familiar
Sorc: VotLW, ML3, F Axe, Bike, Spell Familiar
Sorc: VotLW, ML3, F Axe, Bike, (4++), Spell Familiar
Sorc: VotLW, ML3, F Axe, Jump Pack

Allied KDK:

Herald: Jugger, Locus of Wrath

Cultists

12x Hounds

Daemons CAD:

Fateweaver
Tz'erald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire
Tz'erald: ML3, Paradox

3 Nurglings
10 Horrors

6 Screamers

So the idea is to have the Disc Herald either join the screamers or bounce between BLoS cover while Grimoiring either the hounds or screamers depending on terrain, match up etc. Foot Herald sits with the horrors and uses paradox to pump out a bargain summon a turn. Basically I really wanted the Grimoire and Paradox in the same list but is it trying to do too much? I figured the Grimoire would be necessary to go toe to toe with other deathstars and that the Paradox Herald would help shore up the lists relative weakness in progressive scoring scenarios.

With the new power they get, can you take over your own units if they were allies of convenience, or desperate allies. For example, if you took the cabal formation with Tau, can you take over your stormsurge unit, and shoot them then shoot them again in the shooting phase?

A page before someone asked what to do, if you only have access to a CAD + 1 Formation or Allied Detachment.

So i also want to ask, how can you build a good List with that restriction?

Thought about something like this for a 1500 Point Game

Cabal + KDK

3-5 Sorcerers (Jumppack or Bikes)

1 Jugger Lord or Herald
2x 8 Cultists
12-18 Hounds
Helldrakes (Baleflamer)

or with an CSM CAD. There you have access to Belakor and his awesome Telepathy powers^^.

Csm Lord on Bike or Jugger
2x 10 Cultists
5 Spawn (Mark of Nurgle)
rest of the Army as you wish


What do you think? Wich is the better shell for this Formation? I personally think that KDK is better if you are limited to 1 CAD + 1 Formation or Allied Detachment.

How would you make the list?

 labmouse42 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Doesnt seem completely necessary to me. There a variety of ways to build 20+ WC lists with the Cabal HoundStar

This.

I like the daemonic incursion for the warp storm manipulation and corrupted objectives.


Don't you need a Core for the warp storm/corruption? Daemon flock is an auxillary on battlescribe, and I don't have the book in front of me.

I like the idea of Gorepack, Cabal and CSM CAD.

Im toying around with something like

Cabal all on bikes
Sorc1: Black Mace, ML3, familliar, SoC, rolls on bio, target is Endurance, Iron Arm, Warp Speed.
Sorc 2: as above, But Force Sword, and Mark of Slaanesh, target is Hysterical Frenzy, if gotten early, go for missed spells.
Sorc3: As above, Force axe, target is Sanctic for Hammerhand and +1 invul, if gotten early, go for missed spells.

Gorepack
2×3 Bikers, dubble melta
20 puppies

CAD
Lord, fist/claw, jumppack, Sigil, Daemonheart
OR
Sorc, Divination Relic, Bike, ML3, target for Misfortune and Precience

2×10 Cultists

Fill the rest with dakka support like Sicarans, Sonic Dreads or Spawn.
Spawns are (if taken) to be able to have bubblewrap if the deathstar needs to split up.

The reasoning for Slaanesh Marking is because Hysterical Frenzy is very good and the chance to get it is very high, other options are Tzeentch on the Lord for 2+/3++ or changing to Khorne and Axe of Blind Fury.

Sent from a handheld computational device.

No Slaanesh power is worth rolling on any of those awful tables. Save the points by removing MoS, and roll wherever necessary.

Im also not sure I'd be comfortable with running less than 4 Sorcs in the Cabal. Once you've invested that much into the houndstar you really have to commit to getting all the powers you need to making it nearly unkillable and as killy as possible since unlike its Imperial counterpart it doesnt have the luxury of casting on 2s or Hit and Run. Having some Daemon allies as warp charge batteries and summoners also seems like a good play to make up for a deathstar list's inherently low unit count

yes that is right you need to maximize your cabal power usually when i tried it i played never less than 4 sorcerers one of them of SL for the power hysterical frenzy

Hysterical Frenzy isn't worth not being able to take marked Lords in the unit. I say that because MoS Lords are garbage.

Can't you still take other marked lords/sorcs in a unit? The rule is that marked ICs can't join units with different marks to their own, but if one guy joins a neutral unit and another different marked guy joins that same neutral unit are they still clashing?

 Badablack wrote:
Can't you still take other marked lords/sorcs in a unit? The rule is that marked ICs can't join units with different marks to their own, but if one guy joins a neutral unit and another different marked guy joins that same neutral unit are they still clashing?

They would clash because those IC's count as part of the unit for all rules purposes and the condition checks if the unit has a different mark (not if the entire unit has a different mark)

How cultifo about 2 winged demons with MoN, 2 bloof cutists and an aegis defense line with 3 to 5 cultists .

Thstsstse cultists are cheap fodder for summoning plaguebears and drones, the princes meanwhile spread disease amongst the cabal sits behind the aegis manning the flakk guns sacrificing cultists for heralds.

I tested this 1500 points list last week:

CAD:
Fateweaver
HoT, Disc, Grimnoire, ML3
11 Pink Horrors
3 Nurglings
7 Screamers
AD:
CS Lord, Bike, MB, LC, Daemonheart
10 Cultists
5 Spawn, MoN
CC:
Sorc, ML3, Bike, VotLW, SF
Sorc, ML2, Bike, VotLW
Sorc, ML2, Jumppack, VotLW

It has multiple fast, resilient and scary threats; decent summoning and a lot of flexibility. The list did rather well against a scary KDK list, Im going to try it out some more. Curious to see what other come up with.

Cilithan

you need to test it against top codex. like tau eldar or gladius marines,then you can tell if that is a good build.

I would imagine the better the opponent's codex, the better the Cabal does. Like there's probably a lot less scary shooting in a ork or chaos space marine list than in top eldar or tau lists.

I have been running the Cabal with KDK now for a number of games and the Hound Star is vicious. People seriously under estimate what that unit can do. It is too fast and too big to avoid.

I have been rrunning the Cabal with 3 Bike Sorcerers in 20 Hounds with a Jugger Hearld. 1 Slaneesh and 2 Unmarked. Hysterical Frenzy is great and I have been using a mix of Santic, Biomancy and telepathy in various games. Still not set on a particular discipline. But getting Hysterical Frenzy, Hammer hand and endurance on a unit was Brutal.

I have played a DarkAngel wolfstar, a demi company, and a scat bike eldar list and have torn them all up. Never under estimate the Cabal special power. I took over a unit of Scat bikes every turn and tore into his own ranks for 3 turns. They killed there own Farseer on a jet bike and his unit in two turns. Another battle had me popping a Landraider with his own melta marine.

My usual 1850 list consists of,

Cabal
3 Sorcerers on Bike Lvl 3 with Spell Familiar, SoC, 1 Marked Slaneesh.

KDK Cad
Jugger Hearld w/ LoW
2 Cultist units
20 Flesh Hounds
2 Maulerfiends

Allied
Renegade Knight w/ dual Gattling.

I LOVE THIS LIST. The psychic dice are kinda low but with the Spell familiar you are almost always casting and making your opponent choose what to dispell.

Fateweaver has a neat trick with psychic scream, because you get to roll the 3D6 (not your opponent). If you roll 5,6,1 or a similar roll where 2 are high and one is low you can reroll the 1. Something to remember if there isn't anything more pressing to use the staff for.

Incursion fateweaver is also brutal for its high chance of +1 to invulns.

KnightScion wrote:


My usual 1850 list consists of,

Cabal
3 Sorcerers on Bike Lvl 3 with Spell Familiar, SoC, 1 Marked Slaneesh.

KDK Cad
Jugger Hearld w/ LoW
2 Cultist units
20 Flesh Hounds
2 Maulerfiends

Allied
Renegade Knight w/ dual Gattling.

I LOVE THIS LIST. The psychic dice are kinda low but with the Spell familiar you are almost always casting and making your opponent choose what to dispell.

yikes i think you're onto something there

what's the slaneesh mark do?

He keeps wanting a junk power from there. Just lose the mark so that you can focus on a single table that'll give you consistent results.

The Slaneesh Sorcerer is not to bad for the points. The inititive boost with the Hand of Darkness Relic is great for taking out models at a higher init. Also the Slaneesh powers aren't that bad, I have had great success with Hysterical frenzy and with Ecstatic seizures making a unit attack itself. It does make it difficult for your opponent to decide what to try and deny. Even Symphony of Pain can be useful to lower the Ws and BS of units, also after I target a unit with this and shoot them with the Knight the Knights gun is considered str 7 against that unit and it says unit so this can effect vehicles.. People always seriously underestimate the Slaneeshy powers.

Isn't the +1 to strength only for sonic weapons?

Nobody underestimates the MoS powers. They're just not good for the cost, which is MoS and not being able to roll on a single table the entire time.

Sorry for the perhaps less than constructive comment, but it's Slaanesh. 2 A's, 1 E.

Do carry on. *shambles back to his cave*

I'd just feel dirty taking a Slaanesh mark in a unit of Khorne dogs though. I'll stick to unmarked... Telepathy is generally a nice way to go anyway to get Shriek. Useful against a wide variety of targets!

This is the Cabal list I was thinking of running (Spawn over Hounds because I have them)

Crimson Slaughter CAD

Lord - MoN, Fist/Claw, Daemonheart, Sigil of Corruption, Blight Grenade, Melta Bomb

Cultists
Cultists

Spawn x5 - MoN

Daemon CAD

Fatey
LoC - Impossible Robes, Greater Reward, Exalted Reward, ML3

Horrors x12
Horrors x11

Cabal
Sorc - Bike, ML3, Sigil, Force Axe, Familiar, VotLW
Sorc - Bike, ML3, Sigil, Force Axe, Familiar, VotLW
Sorc - Bike, ML3, Sigil, Force Axe, Familiar, VotLW

1847/1850

20 Psychic Dice to start, two FMCs, LoC has Grim to give Fatey 2++. Summoning is an option as well, thanks to Daemons being Daemons. What do you think?