Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I guess I'm in a different world; the only hate against Marines I see is how damn common they are. That's it.
Now Tau on the other hand...
Weaboos aren't the most favourite type of person out in web-feet and pothole land.

What would you call a Japanese player that likes to play tau then?

I would have wagered that tau are the most hated, but the polls seem to say eldar.

While eldar are certainly more powerful, I find the tau playstyle less fun to play against. Most games against tau that I have played feel very samey. The tau set up all their stuff and barely move all game, and I pick up my models. Against lower end codexes I have seen it just be a match of one side moving forward and then never getting to kill much of anything as they get mowed down by the tau gunline. Which just feels awful to play against. Eldar are definitely more powerful, but everything other than the knight is so fragile, and short range that you atleast get to feel like you are interacting with it a little more. I imagine much of the hate comes from scatter laser bikes which I have never seen in action.

 Desubot wrote:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I guess I'm in a different world; the only hate against Marines I see is how damn common they are. That's it.
Now Tau on the other hand...
Weaboos aren't the most favourite type of person out in web-feet and pothole land.

What would you call a Japanese player that likes to play tau then?

Just some guy that plays Tau? I don't quite hold the sentiment some of my fellow locals hold, it's just that I have noticed groans and eye rolling when one of the guys playing Tau starts blabbing about Anime, in a dogged fashion. I will, however, groan aswell if some kid comes in and perpetuates the stereotype. (Granted, it's only applied to ~60% of the Tau kids I've seen in the shop, but that's still a large proportion)

I feel like I'm stumbling into a sticky situation...

MrMoustaffa wrote:Space Marines have some cool bits, like Lamenters and Black Templars, but I hate space wolves with the burning passion of a thousand suns and would squat them in a heartbeat, so I guess Im 50-50 on them

>Not thousand sons

lost your chance, man

personally I hate eldar the most. They seem to have every special rule, while ignoring every special rule. All they lack is ATSKNF.
I feel like Tau are more vocally hated though.

I don't hate any faction. Some are stronger than others, and probably stronger than they should be.

It's certain players I hate. I can generally tell within 5 minutes if the game is going to be enjoyable based on the player across from me.

For Eldar, Wraithknights are extremely undercosted and their jet bikes should be fast attack not troops (losing obsec). Forcing them to take guardians as troops would instantly make me like them a lot more.

For Tau they are too much of a rock paper scissors army and need to be balanced more to provide an even fight to a wider range of armies (boost their close combat, nerf their shooting abit).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Tau you either know you're going to stomp them or lose horribly, not much in between.

 chaosmarauder wrote:
For Eldar, Wraithknights are extremely undercosted and their jet bikes should be fast attack not troops (losing obsec). Forcing them to take guardians as troops would instantly make me like them a lot more.

For Tau they are too much of a rock paper scissors army and need to be balanced more to provide an even fight to a wider range of armies (boost their close combat, nerf their shooting abit).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Tau you either know you're going to stomp them or lose horribly, not much in between.

Tau shooting should stay the same IMO. The reason why tau are all the same isn't because they're shooting is too good, but it's because our options for more mobile stuff is meh, and our combat stuff is gak. Frankly our Air Force is useless/mediocre, and the only good plane is currently not legal, and devilfish are 85 points a pop naked. Why would you ever take something that expensive? It's worth it's points, but a rhino would be better IMO.

I'd say giving kroot 2 attacks base, making onager gauntlets more common and giving us the option to take a nerfed devilfish for cheaper would make tau better for everyone. That and give us actual fliers, or make our close range shooting weapons just as good as our 30 inch plus ones. I'd love to use my carbine fire warriors.

I agree buff carbines
make kroot slightly better in CC
and make devil fish cheaper

Also the barracuda should of been the plastic flier not the garbage bomber.

might get people to actually take them instead of min maxing crisis suits and riptides.

oh who am i kidding riptides are just too good to not take 3 of.

and does basically everything (anti tank infantry heavy infantry flyer ect ect ect).

 Desubot wrote:
I agree buff carbines
make kroot slightly better in CC
and make devil fish cheaper

Also the barracuda should of been the plastic flier not the garbage bomber.

Yes. I'd also like if broadsides were given a point increase to be toughness 5. Seriously, same for the commander.

Also make vespid useful.

And what about making carbines have 3 shots at max range or/and + 1 shot at half range? If you get in range of those things you should get completely torn to shreds. Hell pirhana might be worth taking on their own, and you might see some aggressive fire support pathfinders.

This would probably make the pirhana drone factory absurd though. Still, the carbine is legit just a nerfed pulse rifle that is outdone by breachers in every way.

I don't know why Necrons are in there. They're hated by newbies because they're unusual compared to the other armies. Once you know their weaknesses, the games tend to be pretty fun and engaging.

I hate this idea that people play Tau because they're Japanophiles and watch anime all day. It's so tired and not based on any sort of reality. Still, I put Tau as the most hated, because people don't like getting shot at by stuff that's incredibly mobile and can just ignore cover like nobody's business.

Also put SM because people seem to blame SM for a lot of the problems in the game.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I guess I'm in a different world; the only hate against Marines I see is how damn common they are..

Nope its not them being common. Its them getting a steady stream of free and or game breaking stuff like free transports, terrain moving powers and grav weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necrons are hated because they don't die and their guns don't care what you are hey just kill you dead.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I don't know why Necrons are in there. They're hated by newbies because they're unusual compared to the other armies. Once you know their weaknesses, the games tend to be pretty fun and engaging.

I hate this idea that people play Tau because they're Japanophiles and watch anime all day. It's so tired and not based on any sort of reality. Still, I put Tau as the most hated, because people don't like getting shot at by stuff that's incredibly mobile and can just ignore cover like nobody's business.

Also put SM because people seem to blame SM for a lot of the problems in the game.

What weakness. you basiclly cannot kill them. it used to be that you had to sweep them to stop them from res ing. now there is no counter to it.
you have to play objectives which some times end up being kill points.
or otherwise you really dont need to bother shooting at them asides from vehicles

1. Even in the Decurion, Resurrection Protocol has a 50/50 chance of success. Considering most of our unit have 4+ save, you are almost certainly bypassing that with all the AP 2/3 in the game right now. That means we are failing as many saves as we are passing. Focus fire for god's sake.

2. Let's talk about the infamous Gauss rule. 6s wound regardless of toughness. Ouch. Wow. That really hurts. It's not like any other race has that on their basic unit. Oh right. Eldar have rending on almost freaking everything, and in that case, the 6s are also AP2. Ours are AP 4/5.

3. No weakness? Our entire army is I2 with the exception of Wraiths. Get us in melee and all you have to do is do 1-2 more wounds than us. We are going to fail the initiative test to run away. Congratulations. You just swept 16 Necron warriors off the battlefield.

Are we strong? Yes. Definitely. Are we unkillable? Hardly.

 EnTyme wrote:
1. Even in the Decurion, Resurrection Protocol has a 50/50 chance of success. Considering most of our unit have 4+ save, you are almost certainly bypassing that with all the AP 2/3 in the game right now. That means we are failing as many saves as we are passing. Focus fire for god's sake.

2. Let's talk about the infamous Gauss rule. 6s wound regardless of toughness. Ouch. Wow. That really hurts. It's not like any other race has that on their basic unit. Oh right. Eldar have rending on almost freaking everything, and in that case, the 6s are also AP2. Ours are AP 4/5.

3. No weakness? Our entire army is I2 with the exception of Wraiths. Get us in melee and all you have to do is do 1-2 more wounds than us. We are going to fail the initiative test to run away. Congratulations. You just swept 16 Necron warriors off the battlefield.

Are we strong? Yes. Definitely. Are we unkillable? Hardly.

1. Some of us have-not armies don't have good ap ignore cover shots falling out of our pockets.
2. The eldar shurikens generally can't touch vehicles, 6's or no 6's. A few squads of gauss are yet another element in the game making vehicles suck, along with haywire, grav, and the D. With vehicles having no save, just one roll of fishing for 6's after normal BS hitting isn't bad odds.
3. They have ld10. A full 10 man blood angel furious charge assault squad led by a priest making them all ws5 and armed with valour's edge/bolt pistol at full health slamming into a cron warrior squad averages taking down a mere FOUR warriors, after which drops a single marine on the return attacks, leading to a pass-on-average leadership check. That situation could not be engineered to be any more in the BA squad's favor than it already is, and the math still doesn't support them. They're just gonna be locked in for the rest of the game until the wraiths have enough free time to charge into them.

It's not the most hated army, but I do tend to be aggravated by crons the most personally. They have several units that are eldar-levels of undercosted, just one example: a monstrous creature as tough as most tyranid MC's that can spawn models for the price of a freaking techmarine, while Tyranids pay hundreds for critters with very similar stat lines and that can't spawn things that can mulch land raiders and super heavies.

Also anytime I play against a cron player, they always seem to be lucky as all hell. I know the odds when I throw things. 4 wounds should be a dead warrior, 8 should be 2, 6 should be a dead immortal, winning combat by 4 should be a dead squad etc... Except my necron opponents ALWAYS beat the odds. They pass ld 4-5 checks like nothing, when they should lose a warrior they don't, when they should lose two they lose one etc etc...

Also their general strategy or lack thereof annoys me. They build a decurion, toss in harvests and d cult, and then on the board, everything just moves towards you full speed shooting anything they can. They don't try to focus or do a precision strike or anything. They're so ludicrously durable that they can actually adopt revolutionary war tactics and do fine, which is beyond silly. Essentially playing against them feels like I'm just playing against a computer player where the programmer knew the computer didn't have the programming to actually provide a decent game against a human opponent, so he just jacked up the stats of the computer's units to compensate. Sorta like those vidya games where hard mode just means the enemies are tougher. When the book came out, we had a newbie cron player go immediately from winning 1 out of his first 6 games to going on a 17 win streak. And when I've actually played against a good cron player, the difference in army quality becomes nigh-insurmountable.

And lastly because any necron player I've ever seen defends their army's OP-ness with "B-b-but Eldar!"

I'm the lone Necron voter so far because they're very popular in my meta. I'm just sick and tired of all the rolls and re-rolls to keep their guys alive. Oh, and gauss rifles making a habit of killing my powerful tanks gets under my skin.

 EnTyme wrote:
1. Even in the Decurion, Resurrection Protocol has a 50/50 chance of success. Considering most of our unit have 4+ save, you are almost certainly bypassing that with all the AP 2/3 in the game right now. That means we are failing as many saves as we are passing. Focus fire for god's sake.

2. Let's talk about the infamous Gauss rule. 6s wound regardless of toughness. Ouch. Wow. That really hurts. It's not like any other race has that on their basic unit. Oh right. Eldar have rending on almost freaking everything, and in that case, the 6s are also AP2. Ours are AP 4/5.

3. No weakness? Our entire army is I2 with the exception of Wraiths. Get us in melee and all you have to do is do 1-2 more wounds than us. We are going to fail the initiative test to run away. Congratulations. You just swept 16 Necron warriors off the battlefield.

Are we strong? Yes. Definitely. Are we unkillable? Hardly.

1) assuming you are not doing the crazy res protocol shenanigans with the harvest book. and amusing cover saves isn't a think
2) gauss weapons really dont matter, necron shooting isnt top tier or anything.
3) again assuming you can do more than 1-2 wounds while getting through overwatch, and assuming you always have a dedicated kill necron unit at all times. and that you can get into combat in the first place before a wraith unit comes in to tie them up forever. and assuming you can kill those wraiths off with shooting before they tie up units.
edit: as niz pointed out as well forgot about LD10
dude as a whole, necrons are a massive un fun pain to deal with. not that they are super killy, its that you will basically kill maybe 1 squad of warriors and a few vehicles in the entire 6+ game turns. unless you are playing D weapon eldar which denys the RP.

In my local group, no army really seems to get any hate. Online however, it seems everyone except CSM players complain about Eldar, while CSM players complain about CSM.

 Flanker wrote:
I'm the lone Necron voter so far

I can't vote again as can't all the other voters. ; )

I voted Eldar, Tau and Necrons.... This is based on my local store and reactions people give when find out what a person has brought for the day (majority of the regulars are adulty aged adults, and multiple armies is the norm)

Most of us hate the Eldar, but we play them regardless because, despite knowing we're gonna get curb stomped, something about either the player, or the way the games go down leads to fun and entertaining games.

The one TFG Tau player of the store hasn't been in in well over 7 months now, since he talked gak to another player, and got his tail wiped across the floor.... The other Tau player is much more bearable of a person, and he realizes that most people hate facing Tau, even if he brings less than optimal things.

Necrons are the one army that I absolutely hate facing, no matter who is playing them. maybe it's just how I play or something, but their reanimation "FNP" save is utter gak, and I just end up taking too many wounds without removing enough/any of his models.

Tau and Eldar. In view of tournaments, some players dont attend if a good Tau or Eldar army has been announced to attend.

Necrons, because they are just not fun to play against.

At least against SM / Eldar / Tau, you might have some fun, even if you lose.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

6th edition, and Heldrakes? Yep, you were automatically TFG if you brought one, because god forbid Chaos gets anything that can ignore a 3+ save.

This happens a lot. I remember when R'varna got the shaft because people were outraged by its AP3 blasts. Now they're AP4 and it's hardly used (it costs 35p less than a Wraithknight). There were some about Y'vahra's flamer, but having gets hot, short range and 4W reduced the outcry.

The complaing is a bit understandable, as marines is the main group of players. However, not everything should grav-itate around them forever.

AP3 was icing on the cake, the R'varna was the best vehicle hunter Tau had. I maintain the Ghostkeel, followed by the Y'vahra are the most balanced MC in the Tau codex.

CSM. Even the CSM-players hate them. Because that weird half-renegades, half darkmechcodex.

As far as generally hated armies go I'd have to point at Eldar and Tau.
Personally though I hate Necrons. Currently Necrons are fearless tarpits that regain wounds. Normally I don't mind their re-animation protocols because it means you get to kill them again, at one point they were probably the only army that could have Slay the Warlord scored against them twice, but currently they are actually re-generators rather than re-animators. They don't die then stand back up they recover wounds and don't go down. I'd be happy to let them roll for re-animation then roll a dice equivalent to the number of wounds they naturally have for wounds regained AFTER THEY DIE!!! not just anytime they lose a wound like some kind of Feel No Pain save.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
As far as generally hated armies go I'd have to point at Eldar and Tau.
Personally though I hate Necrons. Currently Necrons are fearless tarpits that regain wounds. Normally I don't mind their re-animation protocols because it means you get to kill them again, at one point they were probably the only army that could have Slay the Warlord scored against them twice, but currently they are actually re-generators rather than re-animators. They don't die then stand back up they recover wounds and don't go down. I'd be happy to let them roll for re-animation then roll a dice equivalent to the number of wounds they naturally have for wounds regained AFTER THEY DIE!!! not just anytime they lose a wound like some kind of Feel No Pain save.

I honestly wouldn't have such a problem with Necrons if RP could either be totally avoided, not just downgraded to a 6+, or didn't have LD 10. So Tac Marines are LD 8 and Necrons are LD 10? Why?!

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
-snip

I honestly wouldn't have such a problem with Necrons if RP could either be totally avoided, not just downgraded to a 6+, or didn't have LD 10. So Tac Marines are LD 8 and Necrons are LD 10? Why?!

I was under the impression RP was bypassed with instant death weapons.
(Which there's a sore lack of outside of Eldar)

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
-snip

I honestly wouldn't have such a problem with Necrons if RP could either be totally avoided, not just downgraded to a 6+, or didn't have LD 10. So Tac Marines are LD 8 and Necrons are LD 10? Why?!

I was under the impression RP was bypassed with instant death weapons.
(Which there's a sore lack of outside of Eldar)

Nope, only modified. ID bumps their 5+ to a 6+.

Honestly, just by rules: whatever army gets the most "unbalanced" unit of the month.
The hate gets worse the more stuff they get.
Let me see... Yup: Tau is most hated.
Eldar would be second since they received from the prior wave of Tau.
Necrons 3rd since they had the fine meta of "Decurian" introduced.
Space Marines got a "supplement" and a few goodies so they may get a good dose of hatred.

For fluff... Ultramarines... just because they are the boyscouts of the 40k universe.
On the opposite end of the spectrum: Black Templar has a different kind of hate: you have to be a masochist to play them.

Yes, I harbor much hate...

Honestly if the Necron option had been here from the start I would have voted that