Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Traditio wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm sorry but are you saying Sterngaurd are CHEESE now?

How do you define cheese?

A unit that is excessively strong, undercosted or employs a rule that is unfair. E.g. 30k phosphex mortars that caused about 20 ap3 wounds for stupidly low prices.

pm713 wrote:A unit that is excessively strong, undercosted or employs a rule that is unfair. E.g. 30k phosphex mortars that caused about 20 ap3 wounds for stupidly low prices.

Then no, drop pod melta sternguard are not cheese.

What makes it "cheese" is the combination.

Turn 1:

Scout bikes. Drop pod sternguard. Move up bikes. Blow up tanks. Grav elite infantry to death. And carpet bomb the rest.

Aaaaand, your army is crippled.

Good game.

Granted, my army was absolutely terrible back then. Still, though, even now, the list strikes me as being particularly cheddar flavored.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chalkobob wrote:Only the white scars grav bikers (i'm assuming they're taking grav) are generally considered "highly competitive". Suicide melta stern, thunderfire cannons and Khan are by and large just considered decent or in other words adequate at their respective roles for their points.

Whatever is considered an auto-take and is not taken simply because it's the cheapest thing that fills an FOC slot is highly competitive/cheese.

 Traditio wrote:

chalkobob wrote:Only the white scars grav bikers (i'm assuming they're taking grav) are generally considered "highly competitive". Suicide melta stern, thunderfire cannons and Khan are by and large just considered decent or in other words adequate at their respective roles for their points.

Whatever is considered an auto-take and is not taken simply because it's the cheapest thing that fills an FOC slot is highly competitive/cheese.

Maybe. Though what I listed, with perhaps the exception of khan, are not auto-takes.

chalkobob wrote:Maybe. Though what I listed, with perhaps the exception of khan, are not auto-takes.

Suicide melta sternguard aren't considered auto-takes?

 Traditio wrote:

chalkobob wrote:Maybe. Though what I listed, with perhaps the exception of khan, are not auto-takes.

Suicide melta sternguard aren't considered auto-takes?

Not at all, they aren't even that common. Melta is not what it once was, and sternguard are expensive. Unless you know to a certainty that you are going up against a gimmicky high AV vehicle spam list it's best to spend points elsewhere.

Jaxler wrote:Needless to say, he infiltrated his assassins right up to the wall and charged up and over it on turn 1

Additional note:

You know you can't infiltrate and assault turn 1, right? That's not a thing.

Unless the assassins have a special rule I don't know about, the guy cheated (or was not cheating but simply didn't understand how the rules in question operated).

Reading the majority of these and not seeing how these lists are cheesy or OP, they all sound like normal lists.

IMO this thread should be called the "I lost and wanna complain thread"

the_scotsman wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Never had cheese, but I did have a player lie to me about the rules once.

First time playing 6th edition, and I didn't have the rulebook yet. One of the game club guys insisted on playing a game and told me he would run me through the game as I was still new to the edition.

He told me that my Chaos Dreads had only 2 hull points and neglected to mention Overwatch at all to me (he was playing tau while I was playing Khorne berserkers). He also insisted on knowing my list before I came and showed up with, surprise surprise, a lot of anti-tank weapons when he heard I had a lot of rhinos and dreads (I know Rhinos are bad for Zerks, but my army dates back to 4th edition and I didn't have any Land Raiders).

More amusingly even after I won, he claimed i only won because Melee is strong in 6th edition and Tau Shooting was weak.

Tau Shooting Was Weak.

If it was pre-riptide dex he'd be right.

He had a resin Tau Commander so I assume it was 6th edition. Thankfully he didn't actually field a riptide.

Hmm, I have a few:

1; Going in for a 2K game against my opponent. At the time my Guard relied upon cover over armour. My opponent brought a Typhon siege tank and obliterated my army before it could even move.

2; Triple Vindicator advancing with a Librarian conclave behind them. The libby conclave kept dropping Invisibility on the Vinddicators.

3; Outflanking formation Grey Knights. It was like watching a carpet being rolled up.

5; An entire army of Legion of the Damned. It hurt.

I'd say this one is cheese, purely because my thought process and actions at the time were "This will be hilarious", and constant giggling.

However, context first:
Playing against one of the disturbingly adult-like kids at my flgs, he's got his Tau.
750 match, 2x2 board, he's got a pretty bog-standard firewarrior gunline, some ethereal chap, commander thing with a jetpack, and a riptide in the corner.
I've decided to try out my Ruststalkers, backed up by a Magos with 2 Domitar (which both end up getting Malifica and go rogue).

That game was a pretty abysmal rofl-stomp, but only because his objective control was too good. The Rusties did a fair-doo job of ripping apart the gunline, but his jet-pack commander was untouchable.
Post-match, he says "Want to come up with another list? I'll do the same. Something to do for a break."
So I agree. He's got his crates with him, so he could have all sorts.
As do I.

I come back with a Krios (fast tank w/ big lightning cannon), Knight Gallant, Onager w/ Erad beamer, Tech-Priest with the Uncreator Gauntlet.

Actually turned out to be a REALLY close game. Objectives again, and he was nice enough to let all my units take objectives. (Tanks usually can't, right?)
Mission we were playing had the game terminate after 5 turns.
Very quickly, he gets a lead in VP, and I just can't catch up, so I focus completely on wiping him.

Couple funny moments:
His Piranha zooms up a hill to try and contest the objective my Dunecrawler is on. Fool stopped within 9" of my Onager, proceed to one-shot it with a single S10 hit.
Krios does a really fething awful tank-shock down a hill into 2 firewarriors. They simply side-step, and proceed to score 2 more VP.
End up pinning his Riptide against a side of the board with my Knight. Somehow doesn't kill it, have to bring my Tech-priest over and whack it in the shins, which does kill it.

The final move: My Gallant is chasing his Crisis suits; very last units of his (spent the whole game camping in a forest).
After running, I need to roll 11 or higher to charge these guys. If I fail to do so, he wins the game, with 12 VP to my 7.
Actually manage to roll 11, but they overwatch and strip 4 HP from the knight, bringing it to just 1 HP.
But I spread blood and gore all over a pipeline, and get a nice win.

We both had alot of fun, so that's good.

Vehicles can claim objectives in 7th.

I brought a Uriah-bomb Battle Conclave against a Space Marines foot list in 5th edition.

And now she obliterates any Battle Conclave I field on turn 1 with all the firepower that's in range. I think one time, my Battle Conclave actually survived to turn 2 with two models left.

That's about as close as it gets to cheesey when my mom and I play.

master of ordinance wrote:5; An entire army of Legion of the Damned. It hurt.

1. That's against RAI. LotD can only come in via deepstrike. Unless you specifically house rule it otherwise, pure LotD auto-loses on turn 1. GW itself has said that LotD is supposed to be played as an allied force.

2. I'm not entirely sure how a LotD army is cheese. It's an entire codex full of expensive, slow moving infantry who have no access to vehicles, artillery, (or psykers, for that matter, as far as I'm aware).

It's basically "Codex: Tactical Marines (Warp Edition)."

Don't you play IG? Massed lasgun fire would wreck an LotD list seven ways from Sunday.

I played a 1650 list of a double Eldar CAD and Aspect host which was pretty dirty:
2 x Farseer on bike
4x3 Scatterbikes
2x Wraithknight
1x Crimson Hunter Exarch
3x5 Warp Spiders

Couldn’t find the room for an Inquisitor with 3 servo skulls.

 Traditio wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:5; An entire army of Legion of the Damned. It hurt.

1. That's against RAI. LotD can only come in via deepstrike. Unless you specifically house rule it otherwise, pure LotD auto-loses on turn 1. GW itself has said that LotD is supposed to be played as an allied force.

2. I'm not entirely sure how a LotD army is cheese. It's an entire codex full of expensive, slow moving infantry who have no access to vehicles, artillery, (or psykers, for that matter, as far as I'm aware).

It's basically "Codex: Tactical Marines (Warp Edition)."

Don't you play IG? Massed lasgun fire would wreck an LotD list seven ways from Sunday.

I've run a list of 5 squads LotD allied with a single knight crusader (ironically, the knight managed to glance 2 vehicles to death the whole game). And, against an army of Harlequins/DE, it most definitely is an evil list

You guys definition of cheese is rather... tame... Cheesiest lists I've played against would either be a double seer council with jetbike/WK support (A good friend of mine, but when he gets two fortunes, it gets ugly...) and, a guy who ran 2x Tax squads in Pods, 3 Dev Cent (all grav) squads in pods, Tiggy and a Skyhammer. That was a brutal turn 1! Another good one involved 9 Hornets and a Lynx... But hey that's why I bring Flyrants! And then of course there are all of the Thunderstars out there, those are cool too.

I have 2 lists I don't consider cheese, but some people loathe to play against them:

A Necron List with 10 Spyders. With careful execution, and forgiving terrain I can spawn a string of Scarabs half way across the board in a single turn , allowing them to charge anything near the enemy's deployment zone edge turn 1. Pretty much ruins the day for any shooty army when they are swarmed with scarabs.

A Chaos Daemons army that is pretty much Dual CAD Fateweaver, Tzeentch Heralds, and Pink Horrors. It dominates the Psychic Phase and summons every turn, more psykers. At least a 1 in 6 chance for Possession for every Psychic unit on the board, summoned or not, and I usually end up with 4-6 greater Daemons on the board by the end of the game. Most people just start shooting at the Greater Daemons running across the board at them and ignore the summoning, which only makes it worse.

Chapter Master "Smashy-smashy" (you know which one) with a fully pimped command squad on bikes, alongside the Raptor Wing formation and a Stormraven support.

I'll be playing against that very soon.

A friend of mine has begun modelling and painting the following list -- not sure if its full cheese but it feels cheesy to me xD

1.5kpts
Ghostkeel Wing (3 Ghostkeels)
Heavy Retribution Cadre (The one with 2x Stormsurges and a Ghostkeel)

Upgrades include the massive guns for the Stormsurges, interceptor, shields and BS2 overwatch.

What's the verdict? Cheese or not?

 Otto Weston wrote:
A friend of mine has begun modelling and painting the following list -- not sure if its full cheese but it feels cheesy to me xD

1.5kpts
Ghostkeel Wing (3 Ghostkeels)
Heavy Retribution Cadre (The one with 2x Stormsurges and a Ghostkeel)

Upgrades include the massive guns for the Stormsurges, interceptor, shields and BS2 overwatch.

What's the verdict? Cheese or not?

Sounds pretty cheesy to me.

I didn't play against it, but the cheesiest list I ever saw was

1 Brie on a cracker

3 Cheddars
1 Extra mature Cheddar

1 Feta

Needless to say the other guy got beat pretty hard and went into a bit of a violent rage. In the end there was nothing left but de-brie

Demons....I don't have a book so bear with me

Tzeentch Heralds in Disk x4 full gifts and psychic levels

Horrors 3x10

Screamers x8

smattering of other stuff which varies to player taste

Army had the horror generating point, grimnoir of truenames......

most stupid this game has ever produced. If you can't stop them from gaining 2+ invul rerollable or get massive damage on them in the first 2 rounds you lost

Dudeface wrote:
A gentleman I know plays the revenant +2 wraith knights formation, 2 units of bikes, bike seer, a fire prism and a scorpion for 1850, that takes some beating.

Just played a 2500 point tourney this last weekend where nothing was banned. Saw a Tau Supremacy Armor with a Revenant Titan. Played the same formation you just mentioned my third game, but he had one more IA wraith Knight, so 3 Knights and a Revenant with bikes and 2 farseers. Though I watched his previous game before mine and a demon player with the 4 prince formation Psychic shriek his list right off the board.

My List was Pure Cheese as well....

3 Farseers ( ran 2 Eldar cads )
2 x 5 Scat Bikes w/warlocks in each
3 x 3 Normal Bikes
Vaul D Battery x 3 w\Warlock
2 Wraith Knights 1 was an IA with Inferno Cannons
Lynx
Warp Hunter
3 Hornets 6 x Pulse Lasers

And lastly my claim to fame for the tourney was D shotting Aetaos off he table
http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2013/aetaos.pdf
1000 Pt Greater Daemon.... Pure Cheese!

A 500 points unbound 2v1 game:

I took an Emperor's Champion, my ally took some Sternguard with one grav cannon (iirc).

Our opponent took a Libby Conclave.

Results:

EC kills 4 Librarians in melee, takes 1 wound.
Sternguard lose one marine to psy powers, then kill 1 Libby with ap3 bolter fire.

Dude didn't stand a chance.

Conclusion: EC is op in these kinds of scenarios, due to fighting each libby 1v1.

Just as an aside I think cheesy lists are nothing compared to TFG players. I can handle a tough matchup but if my opponent is going to treat the game as anything other than playing with toy soldiers then I'm out.

On to lists. I still think screamerstar is the most unfun match-up I've played since starting in 3rd. Between fateweaver, being unlikable, and summoning it feels like losing from turn one.

In an effort to prove that Come the Apoc allies should never have been allowed, or at the very least should make your army Unbound, I have played this before:

Eldar CAD
Farseer on bike
5 units of Scatterbikes
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Night Spinner (not too cheesy, but I had extra points)
WK

Canoptek Harvest x2 (yes, 2 of the following)
5 Wraiths w/ whip coils
Spider
3 Scarabs
---------------------------1850

Every tourney I have brought this, I won...buy a HUGH margin. 1 tourney was so bad, than none of my opponents scored any points against me, while I scored max points in each game. The prize was $50 and I felt so bad that I bought each of my opponents a $15 item of their choice. After that I sold the Canoptek Harvests.

Having to deploy 12" apart and stay 6" away means nothing when everything moves 12" and half the army wants to stay back and the other half wants to move closer. No one could deal with both halves of the army and in most cases, players focused so hard on the Wraiths, that the Scatterbikes and WK got to do whatever they wanted.

------------
Another cheesy list that I have played against included 6, yes 6 Flying Dakka Tyrants. 3 CADs with deep striking Mucolids & Rippers as troops and 2 Mawlocs. Sure it's light on troops, but that doesn't matter when you have no units left by turn 3-4 and the Tyrants can just land on objectives.

--

Worst case of cheese I ever saw was during a 'Beginner's Tournament'. The rules were simple. Players had to build an army using a single Combined Arms Detachment and no more than 500 points. The idea was that most people would bring an HQ, 2x Troops and maybe one other unit depending on how much their HQ/2x Troops cost.

A dude showed up with this list...

HQ Chaos Sorceror w/no upgrades
Troops Min-sized Cultists w/no upgrades
Troops Min-sized Cultists w/no upgrades
Fast Attack Heldrake
Fast Attack Heldrake

Sigh. We actually spent time thinking about it and nobody could come up with a douchier list.

That doesn't seem bad to me. Then my stores beginners games have reached a point where you can see three IK and a WK.

I'm not too knowledgable about the various armies, so I generally don't know when I'm just playing bad vs. actually getting ROFLStomped.

However, there was one game I knew better to avoid, but my son got suckered into...unfortunately, despite my warnings to him, I was too busy with a game of my own (keeping my Tau from being annilated by Imp Guard - I failed) to closely monitor what was occuring in his.

Early 6E, son (who was 12-13 at the time) was playing a melee-heavy Chaos SM army - helbrute, berserkers, possessed, maulerfiend and a couple sqauds of basic marines transported about in a rhino or two. It was like my son's 3rd or 4th game, and the first time he'd played someone other than me.

15-year old opponent (after seeing my son set up his force) deliberately ran some sort of "flying circus" demon army with all flying monstrous creatures. I don't think my son landed a single wound, and was tabled somewhere around turn 4.


I'd had a couple bad run-ins with my son's opponent already (he normally ran Space Wolves previously), so afterward, I openly questioned my son's opponent about the army. Only to find he had "run it from memory" because he didn't have the book on hand (and the models were all proxied), and made several nasty rules mistakes. After calling the kid a douche to his face, neither I nor my son ever saw him at the gaming club after that - and good riddance.

 Peregrine wrote:
Some guy was talking about this ridiculously cheesy C:SM free transport spam list:

Gladius Strike Force Battle Company:

Pedro Kantor
Captain with boltpistol and power fist
Chaplain

2 - 5 man devastator squads. Each has 3 missile launchers with flakk and 1 lascannon
6 - 5 man tactical squads. 4 have missile launchers; 2 have plasma cannons
2 assault squads on foot. Each has a meltabomb sarge and 2 flamers

1st company task force: 4 - 5 man sternguard veteran squads

Free rhinos, 2 of which have dozer blades.

Sorry bro but this list is actually just a terrible version of way better battle company lists. if this is your cheese you need to hit up some better gt's