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hobojebus wrote:
I'd really reconsider selling GW stuff they will force mandatory sales on you making you stock the new stuff before you can buy what you want, they won't easily refund stuff that's not selling and they won't let you have any kind of sale to clear stuff that's not moving.

And if you should do well they'll open a store nearby and screw you over on new releases so people go to them.

GW is scummy to flgs owners.

When I look through GW's financial statements and notice that their most efficient avenue for selling miniatures is through independent trade partners, I'm tempted to think that is because locally owned gaming stores are just more efficient than GW's stores or their online store/mail order. I think the truth might be the predatory minimums and mandatory products to be carried that makes them so efficient (in terms of generating cash for GW, not the store). If a customer walks into a GW store or goes to their website, they can order any product they like, but a store doesn't have that luxury. I wonder how much of their trade sales is made up of these mandatory products that just sit on shelves.

When a new customer starts with GW, they're likely to make their greatest purchases up front. They'll buy a starter or a rulebook, a codex, some models & accessories, paints, tools, etc., but then their purchases will likely drop off to a few a year until they eventually quit (with dedicated folks who post on places like DakkaDakka being the exception. I think the same thing might hold with GW's trade acounts. A new trade account buys all sorts of products and paints and whatnot and then makes some restocking orders until they eventually quit (with some successful stores that keep selling GW stuff being the exception). And just like how GW's retail stores try to always be selling to new people, GW's trade sales are cold calling all the toy stores and game stores they can find. And as long as enough gamers dream of owning their own store, there will be new targets for them. Even if it likely makes no sense to stock their product and it likely won't work as far as a viable business goes.

Locally, we have two dedicated game stores. One has been around for 30+ years, but has been in constant decline since the rent at the local mall forced them to relocate - CCGs and X-Wing are what's keeping them afloat. The other has focussed on board games and Warmahordes, but still has loads of other stuff in stock.

Oh, and a GW store, but since they only stock GW products, that's not what I count as a game store.

At every other game store locally, games are supplemented in some degree by comics.

My FLGS seems to survive on not only catering to nerds within miniatures / magic, but also to nerds within LEGO, anime/cartoons, boardgames, LARP ++

The place is packed in holiday seasons with all kinds of people, with most being very normal looking shoppers. The main floor is Lego (advanced / nerdy lego), books, cartoons, boardgames and general nerd stuff (like minecraft plushies, mario candy and other funny gift / impulse buy items).

Miniature, RPG and magic is in the cellar, with a decent sized dedicated gaming space in a separate room from the shop itself (good for less theft I would guess)

In short, it caters to a much wider audience than most FLGS´s seem to do.

They use the SBA website and make a business plan and go from there. Try it, it is easy!

https://www.sba.gov/tools/business-plan/1

 Azazelx wrote:
Don't open a store unless you know a lot about how to run a business and have done your research, including why the other stores have closed down and/or moved away.

Opening a store simply because you like games and it seems like it would be a cool idea is actually a terrible idea that will lose you a ton of money, cause a great deal of stress - because owning/running a business is 24/7, not 9-5 - and burn lots and lots of your time..

This is the most correct answer, too many people open a game store because they love playing games. You will almost never play games running a game store, you will watch a lot of it though. The only reason to ever open a business is to make money for you the shareholder. This is done in retail by a customer centric model.

You need to set yourself apart in a market rife with unproffesionalism. Have professionally trained sales staff (proper salesmanship isn't pushy it's subtle), have uniforms, have cleanliness, actually run reports like a square footage report. Have a location that allows growth, nothing worse than growing a big community then not having space for events. Understand that events are loss leaders (or you make a very small margin) not a direct source of revenue. Do not give cash prizes, that is moronic, give store credit. For instance a 100% payout in store credit for top players in a tourney, it's great for them because store credit spends 1 for 1 as cash for them but it's more like 50% of cash for you. Have an aggressive plan for getting new customers, regulars do not make you much money, the initial buy in to anything is always the greatest, this includes MTG. Then ensure you have things like loyalty programs and professional staff that retain those customers. Have an online component, you'll fail without this. Have someone that has great market knowledge and can trade and flip used stuff online. Do not charge full retail, I laugh at full retail in this day and age, it's a joke I won't pay it and the group of people willing to pay just to support the LGS is a shrinking market, don't count on them. People also physiologically spend more when they get visible discounts. So do things like show the retail price and the your price. Simple things like putting price stickers on the back so the customer has to pick it up to see the price. You know what that means if they pick it up, it means there is interest in that product, that's a sales opener right there! I could go on and on and on, but needless to say is you need to do research. Also keep in mind the most important thing on a business plan for investors is a Return on Investment, that's what they truly care about, how are you gonna make them money as an investor.

As far as your margin, I can't say what it is where you live (RRP, that's UK right?), in the US though distributors give a roughly 45-50% margin.

 DrNo172000 wrote:
the initial buy in to anything is always the greatest, this includes MTG.

Small disagreement here: the initial buy in for MTG is actually fairly small, usually a cheap starter set and maybe a couple of packs. And then when people make the initial jump to playing seriously they often go online to buy single cards instead of buying locally. Where you win with MTG is the long-term addicts. They'll buy a box of every new set as soon as it is announced, buy more packs every time they're in the store, and regularly spend $15+ on draft tournaments. And really, draft tournaments are the easiest money you'll ever make. Everyone who enters has to pay for three packs at full retail price, plus an entry fee which goes to buying more packs to give out as prize support. A simple 8-person draft is selling $120 worth of MTG just for saying "here's a table you can use", on top of whatever additional packs the players might buy while they're in the store. Your goal as a store is to get people over the initial "casual games with the starter set" buy-in and make them into dedicated long-term players who will gladly hand you $20 every week just for existing.

Have someone that has great market knowledge and can trade and flip used stuff online.

Just be aware of the fact that getting into the used stuff market is risky and a good way to tie up money in inventory you can't sell. If there's an opportunity you might as well take it, but don't count on this in your budget planning.

 Peregrine wrote:

 DrNo172000 wrote:
the initial buy in to anything is always the greatest, this includes MTG.

Small disagreement here: the initial buy in for MTG is actually fairly small, usually a cheap starter set and maybe a couple of packs. And then when people make the initial jump to playing seriously they often go online to buy single cards instead of buying locally. Where you win with MTG is the long-term addicts. They'll buy a box of every new set as soon as it is announced, buy more packs every time they're in the store, and regularly spend $15+ on draft tournaments. And really, draft tournaments are the easiest money you'll ever make. Everyone who enters has to pay for three packs at full retail price, plus an entry fee which goes to buying more packs to give out as prize support. A simple 8-person draft is selling $120 worth of MTG just for saying "here's a table you can use", on top of whatever additional packs the players might buy while they're in the store. Your goal as a store is to get people over the initial "casual games with the starter set" buy-in and make them into dedicated long-term players who will gladly hand you $20 every week just for existing.

Have someone that has great market knowledge and can trade and flip used stuff online.

Just be aware of the fact that getting into the used stuff market is risky and a good way to tie up money in inventory you can't sell. If there's an opportunity you might as well take it, but don't count on this in your budget planning.

in my experience buying used product models that work usually involve store credit as the return, or taking a 20% lower amount in cash at an already low price. I see stores off 30-50% of the value of something, even if it is NOS or NIB- Lets say they buy 200 dollars worth of miniatures, likely they bought 400-600 USD worth of something, the person takes store credit of 200 or 160 USD. The person is probably taking the store credit, which costs the store 100-120 dollars. The store will sell the items they purchased at 20-40% off retail depending on what it is-some things they may not buy. Or a margin of $240 - 480 for their likely 100 dollars. Not all of the items will sale, they will likely make 180-380. Still a good margin - often more than buying new product from a distributor and selling it at MSRP.

Another model I see stores do well is OPENING A LARGE BOXED set, and splitting the contents into bundles to sale. They pay ~ 75-85 usd for death masque, then break it down and sell the parts for significantly more. Rule Book= $25 -30, minis are sold at 20% off MSRP of the smaller box they would normally be sold in. Large % profit. I have seen stores do this, guess what? That Start collecting army boxed set they paid $40 USD for sold in parts for 10 dollars more than the MSRP of the actual box. This combined with buying models from patrons will let you buy half of a death masque box/stormclaw/etc and sell off the army for $ that a player didn't want from the box. Maybe the rulebook too, chance are you are paying them in store credit so you are paying them much less than the value of the models you will resale.

Another good thing, with GW items. Offer a 20% discount on pre-orders of new content if they pay up front before the order arrives. Earmark limited spots based on some % of the amount you are getting, this way you don't end up with 8 boxes of something that sits and doesn't sell later. People are more likely to pick up at a discount, and buy more if they think "I AM GETTING A DEAL HERE" and if you make the qty limited up front for a limited time window, after that they go to MSRP. For items that normally would end up not selling well, this will increase sales through impulse buying.

most FLGS I see are bad at business. And to the person who said do not offer a discount because other stores may bad mouth you, no one is going to sing your praise. You are a business, they are a business. If you are close to each other people are only going to go to the shop they do not normally go to if their normal shop is out of something they call you and you have it. No business model anywhere thinks "marking things down for sales is bad, it will hurt our bottom line and ruin our reputation." The second I read your comment, I assumed you run/work at a FLGS.

 Iapedus wrote:
Due to the complete dearth of a decent FLGS in our immediate area (the last one having just closed its door and moved far, far away ), a friend and I briefly mused on the idea of setting up our own store. Having found a decent spot and put a simple business plan together, we are both utterly stumped at how an FLGS can make any money or indeed stay in business

In general, you don't (make money), and can't (stay in business).

Most FLGS will go out of business in a year's time, after they burn through their seed money, and try to recoup some pennies on the back end via clearance sales.

If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

The way around this is to be a card shop that sells Pokemon / Yugioh / Magic, runs Friday Night Magic and weekend tournaments, and does a brisk trade in singles. In this case, your product is the entertainment of hosting card events every night and every weekend and every month.

blaktoof wrote:
I see stores off 30-50% of the value of something, even if it is NOS or NIB

Well yeah, that's of course going to work. If you're buying NIB stuff from desperate people at huge discounts it's easy to make money. But that's not what most people think of when they hear "trade and flip used stuff online". Selling opened and played board games, painted models, etc, is much harder than selling NIB stuff.

The store will sell the items they purchased at 20-40% off retail depending on what it is-some things they may not buy.

Good luck getting that much for used stuff. Unless you meant 20% of retail price, not a 20% discount?

Another model I see stores do well is OPENING A LARGE BOXED set, and splitting the contents into bundles to sale. They pay ~ 75-85 usd for death masque, then break it down and sell the parts for significantly more. Rule Book= $25 -30, minis are sold at 20% off MSRP of the smaller box they would normally be sold in. Large % profit. I have seen stores do this, guess what? That Start collecting army boxed set they paid $40 USD for sold in parts for 10 dollars more than the MSRP of the actual box. This combined with buying models from patrons will let you buy half of a death masque box/stormclaw/etc and sell off the army for $ that a player didn't want from the box. Maybe the rulebook too, chance are you are paying them in store credit so you are paying them much less than the value of the models you will resale.

Just don't do this with GW stuff. If you get caught you'll lose your retailer account and discount, which effectively means you can't sell GW stuff anymore.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is your flag right? Are you in Hong Kong?

Don't tell me Fun Ateliers closed!

They didn't close, just moved from their great Wan Chai location over the harbour into an East Kowloon Industrial Estate This means the Island has lost its main gaming centre, leaving a lot of folks who cant easily get over to the new place adrift. GW did also just open a new store in Mong Konk, but again it is not the easiest place to access for Island dwellers and is so tiny they only have a single 4x4 table to play on.

Thanks again for all the great advice being offered here, we will definitely take it on board in making our decision!

I'm sure it's possible to turn a profit if you don't have MtG, but it's going to be a lot harder, especially these days with the internet and whatnot.

Another revenue stream that may have been mentioned but I missed is selling 2nd hand stuff. I remember my FLGS (before it closed ) told me most of the GW-related money they made was people trading in stuff and then reselling it rather than new stuff. People buy a $400 army, a few months later they discover they are never going to paint it or need the money to buy the latest xplayboxstation game and sell it back to you for $150, then you put it back on the shelf at $300.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

That would be how you lose money. If all you have is a single 6x4 table why is anyone going to bother coming into your store? They can buy online for less money, and you aren't offering them anything in return for your higher prices.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

That would be how you lose money. If all you have is a single 6x4 table why is anyone going to bother coming into your store? They can buy online for less money, and you aren't offering them anything in return for your higher prices.

Plus if you're looking for dirt cheap rent then you're out of the way, people can't get there on public transport, and your shop is empty.

For a normal business selling stuff that most people want or need the mantra is location, location, location. Be a place people walk by all the time and lure in foot traffic.

For a niche store like gaming you can be a bit out of the way but then you have to advertise and build relationships and a community.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iapedus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is your flag right? Are you in Hong Kong?

Don't tell me Fun Ateliers closed!

They didn't close, just moved from their great Wan Chai location over the harbour into an East Kowloon Industrial Estate This means the Island has lost its main gaming centre, leaving a lot of folks who cant easily get over to the new place adrift. GW did also just open a new store in Mong Konk, but again it is not the easiest place to access for Island dwellers and is so tiny they only have a single 4x4 table to play on.

Oh noes! Glad I found I found before my Christmas trip.

I still have some Cultural Revolution zombies to paint from my last trip there in 2009.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS store locator updated


Automatically Appended Next Post:
While I';m on the subject, how is this list of gaming shops from the HK Society of Wargamers?

http://www.hksw.org/supplies%20ls.htm

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

That would be how you lose money. If all you have is a single 6x4 table why is anyone going to bother coming into your store? They can buy online for less money, and you aren't offering them anything in return for your higher prices.

Yeah, I know a former FLGS that went that route, have a great store, lots of tables, good terrain, in an out of the way industrial park so they had plenty of space.

And ultimately, that was the problem. It just wasn't convenient to get to, and unless you knew about it, there was absolutely no way to get casual passerby traffic. There was another store that I didn't like as much, but it was in a shopping center, convenient to get to, and got a lot of casual traffic. It's still in business, while the former folded.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
I manage The Games Den, a Boardgames FLGS in Leamington Spa. It's basically a two-man-band, the owner/boss and I.

You need to advertise more! I would not have found you existed had I not happend to see this thread on the front page, and then click on it, which I almost never do.

I work in Warwick (covering Leam) and live in Coventry, and I had not heard a thing about you. Not that I can think how I'd have heard, but still...
Drop by covgaming.proboards.com and get yourselves on there (if you want).
I'll get you added here, too: http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/store_finder.jsp, as Leam only has GW listed.

Skinnereal, thanks for mentioning that, I really encourage everyone to add to, update and use the store finder.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/store_finder.jsp

I travel a lot to really odd places and it's a great resource. Often better than GWs!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Plus if you're looking for dirt cheap rent then you're out of the way, people can't get there on public transport, and your shop is empty.

Out of the way is fine if you're big enough to host events. Our main event venue up here is in an old snooker hall in a city that's fairly central, but without much passing traffic. People travel for events though, as it has something like 12x 4x6 tables permanently set up, with space for more, and a cafe/shop on the side.

Herzlos wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Plus if you're looking for dirt cheap rent then you're out of the way, people can't get there on public transport, and your shop is empty.

Out of the way is fine if you're big enough to host events. Our main event venue up here is in an old snooker hall in a city that's fairly central, but without much passing traffic. People travel for events though, as it has something like 12x 4x6 tables permanently set up, with space for more, and a cafe/shop on the side.

It's always a balancing act. A hobby store near where I lived when I was in the USA was miles away from anything. It was fething huge and it could certainly afford that because it was out of the way. The place was always busy and the space let them run events (not just wargaming, but had enough space for race tracks for cars and stuff as well).

I think it worked because there was no useful public transport anyway, everyone drove everywhere other than a few people within walking distance of the main town centre, so driving a few minutes extra to the hobby store is no big deal.

Where I live in Australia I don't think that'd work. You'd want to be within walking distance of a train station or something. Curiously there's an FLGS that opened recently out here that's in a reasonably large facility and I assume the rent is pretty cheap, it's not out of the way but a bit difficult to get to when driving and in a quiet area of town, but still walking distance to the train station, will be interesting to see how they manage it.

My local hobby shop, not FLGS but general hobby, recently moved AWAY from his old shop which was near a train station, his reason was that it was less rent money for a bigger shop in a nicer location and most his business comes from repeat customers who drive anyway and used to complain to him about how there wasn't enough parking at his old store that was nearer public transport. It certainly worked for me, his old shop I had to make a special trip because I had to drive in to the heart of town I'd never go in to for any other reason, but now he's just on a side street of a major highway, so it's less of a hassle to stop by on my way to somewhere else.

In my area, we have about 4 different FLGS, all of which follow radically different models. The oldest and most successful puts equal effort on comics, board games, and miniature wargames, but has virtually no MTG presence. He has a room with 2 full size wargame tables and lots of terrain, as well as several smaller tables. Comics and miniatures are his biggest sellers and he's doing well enough to buy the building next door to him and expand.

The next one is part of a localized chain called G2K Games, and they sell everything, from comics to video games to MTG and Warhammer. They host gaming events regularly and seem to be doing pretty well. They originally started out as primarily video games, but soon branched out.

The newest in the area is almost all MTG. They host weekly events, have a ton of playing area and seem to be doing well. They have a small wargames selection and a decent collection of boardgames and have a few nice tables set up for wargames.

The final one is a chain store called Hobby Town USA. They put more focus on typical hobby stores than gaming, but do host a regular gaming night and have tables for wargames.

All of these stores have been relatively successful, with the youngest one being open a little over a year now (and recently expanded). The big thing about them is, they don't offer deep discounts (or hardly ANY discounts with the exception of Hobby Town USA). The oldest one offers no discount on anything, but has excellent service and has always tried to garner customer loyalty.

I think the lesson is, don't try to be the FLGS that gives the steepest discount. Try to have more than one focus on your products and make sure you have plenty of gaming space. Diversity is key, because when one game type declines, another usually ramps up. Also, sell drinks and snacks, lots and lots of drinks and snacks, because gamers like to eat and drink

Iapedus wrote:The hardest part of getting the figures to work is knowing what the discount rate from the game manufacturers actually is. They wont give you the information until you have a store, but we are not going to open a store unless we have a solid plan, which requires a rough idea of what the rate is. We have based our assumption of 30% on the fact that people such as Wayland Games and Frontline Gaming regularly offer 25% off GW prices, and must be making at least 5% for themselves? Does anyone have any idea what kind of discount off RRRP these guys usually offer?

It varies, at least as far as GW is concerned. The closer you get to a GW shop, the bigger the discount - you start at 30% off RRP (EXCLUSIVE of VAT), then if your store does things like have table space, do painting lessons, etc etc, you can get to 40% off RRP. I think that is the maximum trade discount (at least it was a few years ago).

Companies like Esdevium Games (distributors of FFG in the UK) have a 30-35% discount. Assuming a trade price of about 2/3 RRP is going to be pretty close to what you'll get - don't forget to account for VAT or local equivalent, however - e.g. a £10 item at 30% off is £7... PLUS 20% VAT, so it's actually £8.40.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
I manage The Games Den, a Boardgames FLGS in Leamington Spa. It's basically a two-man-band, the owner/boss and I.

You need to advertise more! I would not have found you existed had I not happend to see this thread on the front page, and then click on it, which I almost never do. People in Banbury need to know you exist. At the moment gamers there are all going to Gameskeeper or Meeples in Oxford, which whilst they are good shops are a PITA to get to as parking in Oxford is hell.

I'll definatly be comming in for a visit next time I'm up in Leamington to go to the garage or Lockwoods.

We've only been open since 28th May - advertising's all been FB related and word of mouth so far! Do drop in, it'd be great to meet a fellow Dakkaite. I'm the slim bearded one, Boss Man Tim's the big bearded one.

Skinnereal wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
I manage The Games Den, a Boardgames FLGS in Leamington Spa. It's basically a two-man-band, the owner/boss and I.

You need to advertise more! I would not have found you existed had I not happend to see this thread on the front page, and then click on it, which I almost never do.

I work in Warwick (covering Leam) and live in Coventry, and I had not heard a thing about you. Not that I can think how I'd have heard, but still...
Drop by covgaming.proboards.com and get yourselves on there (if you want).
I'll get you added here, too: http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/store_finder.jsp, as Leam only has GW listed.

Ooh, covgaming.proboards.com eh? Will do - thanks for the heads up (and the note about the store finder, I didn't know that existed)! Pop in and play something!

Most stores I know get money through MTG primarily, but also comics, anime collectables and food and drink. Increasingly more stores here are having little "food stalls" in them that sell more than just the standard pop and chips (some sell full-blown meals like hamburgers with french fries and a fountain drink, all generic brand ofc).

Finally another trend that's happening here is the "Game cafe" thing, where you pay an entrance fee and play their open box games while ordering drinks of all kinds, which has become very popular with the asian visa students here. These are different from the above stores that offer meals in that the above meals are generally aimed towards tournament players (who often dedicate entire weekends in the shop, leaving only for food), while the gaming cafes are aimed at casual, drop-in players.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

That would be how you lose money. If all you have is a single 6x4 table why is anyone going to bother coming into your store? They can buy online for less money, and you aren't offering them anything in return for your higher prices.

Plus if you're looking for dirt cheap rent then you're out of the way, people can't get there on public transport, and your shop is empty.

For a normal business selling stuff that most people want or need the mantra is location, location, location. Be a place people walk by all the time and lure in foot traffic.

For a niche store like gaming you can be a bit out of the way but then you have to advertise and build relationships and a community.

I have seen quite a number of gaming "stores" fold, and every one of them has been expensive rent with a lot of tables. The idea of placing them in a premium mall never works. That's how all of the WotC and other game stores closed out of the major malls. Including the GW stores locally - they're in little strip malls, not the Galleria or in a huge "Battle Bunker".

The stores that lasted the longest function as stores, for which wargaming is a small niche, and did just fine with a single permanent table, using fold-outs for events. The stores that actually make money with lots of space are the card stores, not the wargaming stores. That is, stores that are run as a business, with an emphasis on using in expensive footage to make money.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
The final one is a chain store called Hobby Town USA. They put more focus on typical hobby stores than gaming, but do host a regular gaming night and have tables for wargames.

Just to point out that HobbyTown USA is a franchise, so its entirely possible that might be the franchisee's only location.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you want to make money, you need to find dirt cheap rent and then use the most of it to make money. Maximum one 4'x6' table at the front of the store, where you can watch it from the register, with the overwhelming majority of your space devoted to selling product at a profit.

That would be how you lose money. If all you have is a single 6x4 table why is anyone going to bother coming into your store? They can buy online for less money, and you aren't offering them anything in return for your higher prices.

Plus if you're looking for dirt cheap rent then you're out of the way, people can't get there on public transport, and your shop is empty.

For a normal business selling stuff that most people want or need the mantra is location, location, location. Be a place people walk by all the time and lure in foot traffic.

For a niche store like gaming you can be a bit out of the way but then you have to advertise and build relationships and a community.

I have seen quite a number of gaming "stores" fold, and every one of them has been expensive rent with a lot of tables. The idea of placing them in a premium mall never works. That's how all of the WotC and other game stores closed out of the major malls. Including the GW stores locally - they're in little strip malls, not the Galleria or in a huge "Battle Bunker".

The stores that lasted the longest function as stores, for which wargaming is a small niche, and did just fine with a single permanent table, using fold-outs for events. The stores that actually make money with lots of space are the card stores, not the wargaming stores. That is, stores that are run as a business, with an emphasis on using in expensive footage to make money.

I don't think there's any "one size fits all" formula. A couple of stores that seemed to do well have large stores with a proper gaming area, 10+ large tables and make money by charging a few bucks to use them, or renting the entire gaming space to one of the local clubs for the day. Another store that's lasted a long time is in a decently busy foot traffic area and uses about half the store space as a gaming area, but it's used for card gaming and RPGs more often than wargaming, they run events 5 or 6 days a week.

The local GW in its old location did quite well, it was in a large shopping centre, a small store but managed to fit 3 small tables in it. It had a lull when it moved out of the shopping centre in to a quieter location with cheaper rent and a larger area for more tables, but it's picked up again now, I don't know whether or not it's making ends meet but there's almost always people in it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have seen quite a number of gaming "stores" fold, and every one of them has been expensive rent with a lot of tables.

Sure, but how many stores with no gaming space have failed in that same time? Paying more rent for table space is hard on the budget, but not doing so is suicide. If you don't have gaming space and you can't match the discounts of the online stores why would I ever go into your store? You'll end up with cheap rent but a pile of unsold inventory collecting dust because the only time anyone ever considers buying something from you is if they need a last-minute pot of paint. And you certainly aren't going to build the kind of customer loyalty that gets people to pay a little extra to buy locally because they love your store.

The idea of placing them in a premium mall never works. That's how all of the WotC and other game stores closed out of the major malls. Including the GW stores locally - they're in little strip malls, not the Galleria or in a huge "Battle Bunker".

This is not a very convincing argument when GW's retail stores are generally considered to be dead weight that GW should get rid of. Those cheap strip-mall stores provide very little for the existing customers and do nothing to attract new customers. Kill them off entirely and GW would lose nothing.

The stores that lasted the longest function as stores, for which wargaming is a small niche, and did just fine with a single permanent table, using fold-outs for events.

How do folding tables change anything? You still need the same floor space to put them out, unless you're willing to shut down sales and shove all your inventory into the back to make room every time you have an event. And if you have the floor space you might as well have permanent tables and use that floor space at all times.

The stores that actually make money with lots of space are the card stores, not the wargaming stores. That is, stores that are run as a business, with an emphasis on using in expensive footage to make money.

What does being a card store have to do with being run as a business? Which product you're selling has very little to do with how you run the store.

I'm not sure I'd really recommend starting any kind of retail store in the current climate. The rise of online retail is only going to continue as more and more people transition to seeing it as the default option, with brick-and-mortar being an afterthought.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
I'm not sure I'd really recommend starting any kind of retail store in the current climate. The rise of online retail is only going to continue as more and more people transition to seeing it as the default option, with brick-and-mortar being an afterthought.

Bricks and mortar can survive by providing a service that online stores can't - a place to play, and a place to meet people and socialise. That's how we function, mostly. As I type I'm waiting for people to arrive for our August Armada Tournament .

A location that people can travel to, sit down in, and play with likeminded sorts is going to do a lot better than a box with stock in it. You have to combine that with good customer service though - make friends with your regulars and be welcoming to everyone!

The most succesful FLGS that I have ever been to (Element Games) started out as an online retailer and built up a solid reputation for always delivering quickly and on time, as well as accurate stock levels and good prices

Once they had established their reputation they then moved to a bricks and mortar establishment and branched out. They stock a very wide range, don't sell a lot of MTG but do good business on GW products

Something to keep in mind is the OP is talking about Hong Kong, one of the most congested cities on Earth, and specifically about HK Island itself. So it's useful to scale your advice as if talking about central London, Manhattan or Tokyo.

Thinking about that I would say gaming space is more essential in HK than a lot of other places because for most HK folks playing at home is not an option.

But rent will kill you.

So uh... I dunno?

Maybe start as a club/business, renting some sort of community hall or space on weekends, placing orders for members etc wtih no rent or inventory. Then see how it goes.

Gaming space is essential anyway, I feel.