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 General Annoyance wrote:

Orks are one of the most primitive races in the galaxy that know how to use ranged weaponry and war machines.

Lol, this kinda made my day. Nope, orks are one of the most ancient most high tech races available. They are engineered to be the perfect weapon agains the necron menace and have a racial build in tech potential. Its just that most warbands are not big enough to unlock more than just a sliver of their true potential. But then again what other race has the ability to restart their civilization from scratch and reach void capable tech in a shorter time period than ork societies do ? This would take humans 1000's of years to achieve.

If you don't believe me and still think that those canned space fishes are more high tech then show me tau tech surpassing the following.

- Long distance warp travel
- Portable weaponized teleportation devices
- Planet sized Graviton manipulation weapons
- Cruiser sized interstellar teleportation gates.
- weaponized tractor beams
- Man portable force fields capable of protecting large areas of the battle field.

It seems a common complaint on here about Orks is that people don't like the randomised results or the fact they can blow themselves up. But that's how Orks have been ever since 1st edition; in my view it's a pretty big part of the character of the army. If people don't like that, then I sort of wonder why they're playing Orks in the first place.

Not saying the codex is perfect; I've certainly got a few Hot Takes on how to improve things. But if you're dismissing things on the basis of them only being good if "playing for fun", I kind of wonder why else you'd be playing 40K? Just to give yourself a reason to incessantly complain about it on the Internet?

Random is good it keeps all the no fun all power creeps out of your armies reputation. Its being low on the point efficiency curve that is bad. But hey noting new here.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Random is good it keeps all the no fun all power creeps out of your armies reputation. Its being low on the point efficiency curve that is bad. But hey noting new here.

Aye, I personally think a lot of the problems with Orks as they currently stand could be solved by points reductions for the units/upgrades in question.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

Orks are one of the most primitive races in the galaxy that know how to use ranged weaponry and war machines.

Lol, this kinda made my day. Nope, orks are one of the most ancient most high tech races available. They are engineered to be the perfect weapon agains the necron menace and have a racial build in tech potential. Its just that most warbands are not big enough to unlock more than just a sliver of their true potential. But then again what other race has the potential to restart their civilization from scratch and reach void capable tech in such a short time. This would take humans 1000's of years to achieve.

If you don't believe me and still think that those canned space fishes are more high tech then show me tau tech surpassing the following.

- Long distance warp travel
- Portable weaponized teleportation devices
- Planet sized Graviton manipulation weapons
- Cruiser sized interstellar teleportation gates.
- weaponized tractor beams
- Man portable force fields capable of protecting large areas of the battle field.

Sometimes people really need to take a step back and have a little read over what they're saying.

Technology has nothing, nothing to do with biology; even if Orks were genetically engineered to be this way (it's not certain for sake people), the only reason any of the above technology works is because of their Waaagh! energy - without them, Ork technology is crude and easily the most unrefined and underdeveloped technology in any spacefaring race. Despite Orks being able to do what you listed, they still can't:

-Accurately navigate through the warp
-Program their portable tellyporta technology to be more reliable
-Have proper manipulation over what their tractor weapons do
-Stop technology such as large tellyporta fields and force fields from failing and/or exploding

And despite you claiming they're somehow high tech, even though every book written about them says something similar to it being crude, cobbled together and not reliable in any stretch of the imagination, they still haven't:

-Replicated anti grav technology
-Created drone technology
-Created Battlesuit technology
-Reproduced energy or pulse based weaponry from scratch
-Perfected stronger body armour that fits their physiology
-Advanced medical technology, cybernetics and treatment of injuries
-Made any precision, long ranged weaponry, such as Sniper Rifles or Railguns


And that's just from the Tau, from what I can think of in my head. Compared to the Imperium, they haven't:

-Replicated Gyrojet or self propelled ammunition
-Replicated special ammunition
-Created genetic enhancements
-Created powered armour outside of Mega Armour
-Created Battleship Lance technology
-Built or tested vectored thrusters
-Developed better rapid insertion methods than Roks, such as Drop Pods and Grav Chutes
-Replicated man portable grav technology
-Replicated man portable plasma technology


I could go on here; you're proving my point of taking Orks way more seriously than they should be, alongside shooting yourself in the foot with your argument. You basically admitted that the ramshackle technology of the Orks only works because they want it to, which is something biological, not technological. And even running their technological achievements next to the other spacefaring races, they still come up woefully short.

G.A

Lets talk about canned fish supremacy after you have read the beast arises series. Orks are poorly represented on the Battlefield. Ork tech in the fluff is anything but low tech when a waaagh starts unlocking some of their potential.

Lighten up man, you shouldn't be getting into Orks without realising that you're playing for comedy as much as competition.

oldzoggy hit everything I was thinking about it yesterday.
I can see why you would say primitive given your means of measurement. I don't agree. Orks are far to fascinating to just write off.

If anything the KFF would have to be a roll two D6 chart. And some where in there the shots bounce back or something like that.

Here is a spoiler if you like to see what you are in for..
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Attack_Moon

oldzoggy wrote:Lets talk about canned fish supremacy after you have read the beast arises series. Orks are poorly represented on the Battlefield. Ork tech in the fluff is anything but low tech when some waaagh starts unlocking some of their potential.

warhead01 wrote:

Lighten up man, you shouldn't be getting into Orks without realising that you're playing for comedy as much as competition.

oldzoggy hit everything I was thinking about it yesterday.
I can see why you would say primitive given your means of measurement. I don't agree. Orks are far to fascinating to just write off.

Fascinating and technological prowess are two entirely different things; while you're correct that Orks can make some law defying and incredibly dangerous war machines, such as the Attack Moons and many more besides (the Submarines used on Armageddon are a good example), the fact that the Meks that cobbled them together did so based on their Waaagh! energy buildup is indicative of their biology to make more powerful tech when they are in numbers - that technology is still crude in nature and heavily flawed or unreliable, as seen with the Attack Moons and how the Imperial Navy exploited its weakness to destroy it. And once the Waaagh! is broken, the Meks can't remember how they made them again until they end up in a Waaagh! of equal or greater size, if ever that may happen again on the level of the Beast. They aren't consistent in their technological advances like the other primary races, and often lose any advancement as a result of this.

If anything the KFF would have to be a roll two D6 chart. And some where in there the shots bounce back or something like that.

Why though? Again, flawed and unreliable technology built crudely, regardless of its intended purpose.

The thing is, it's a whole different kind of psychology. Psychotic is a way of life. that's where the humor comes in. Ork humor isn't haha funny it oh dear lord no funny.

I get it, a lot of what they build with galactic left overs is unreliable that's the nature of the beast when it comes to using parts scrounged on the battle field made by a race of pointy eared gitz or stupid humies. ( who can't even change a light bulb) But in the forty first millennium everything's falling apart anyway. So what's an Ork to do. I know it ain't easy conquering the universe with a machete and flip flops. But it should at least be fun.

Why though? Again, flawed and unreliable technology built crudely, regardless of its intended purpose

This is better that roll a d6 where lower is better and a 1 is very bad. It creates playability for the Ork player. (KFF's cost a lot of points as it is.) And can created effects better than just what's my save this time. It it should be fun for the Ork player.
I'm not for adding any more rules to my own army that help my opponent.

 warhead01 wrote:
The thing is, it's a whole different kind of psychology. Psychotic is a way of life. that's where the humor comes in. Ork humor isn't haha funny it oh dear lord no funny.

I don't quite get what you mean here. The humour in Orks comes from both their plague like nature on the galaxy and their blunt and funny perception on the galaxy reflected through their tactica and approach to weapon solutions - no other race would come up with a gun as outrageously impractical and surprisingly deadly as the Shokk Attack Gun, for instance, or have such crude methods for reviving their hospitalised ground forces.

I get it, a lot of what they build with galactic left overs is unreliable that's the nature of the beast when it comes to using parts scrounged on the battle field made by a race of pointy eared gitz or stupid humies. ( who can't even change a light bulb) But in the forty first millennium everything's falling apart anyway. So what's an Ork to do. I know it ain't easy conquering the universe with a machete and flip flops. But it should at least be fun.

Orks have no care for the state of the galaxy - they'll carry on fighting till the last Greenskin that infects the galaxy. Part of fighting in this unending war is improvisation, which is what makes the Orks so ridiculously durable and difficult to remove from planets and systems decades after their first invasion. But improvisation doesn't come without its drawbacks, as demonstrated in the rules for some of their more complex equipment.

Why though? Again, flawed and unreliable technology built crudely, regardless of its intended purpose

This is better that roll a d6 where lower is better and a 1 is very bad. It creates playability for the Ork player. (KFF's cost a lot of points as it is.) And can created effects better than just what's my save this time. It it should be fun for the Ork player.
I'm not for adding any more rules to my own army that help my opponent.

The tradeoff for such powerful weapons in the Ork codex should be their unreliable nature - the Shokk Attack Gun has a chance to fire its operator across the battlefield equal to the chance of opening a rift that insta kills infantry in its vicinity and gouging vehicles to smouldering wrecks. The only thing I'd change is a points cost, since the probable reason why it's turning you off is because of the price point, which should really be cheaper than it is considering that tradeoff in wildly varying firepower. Just don't rip away what makes bringing these ridiculous contraptions to the battlefield so funny and unpredictable.

Orks are one of the most primitive races in the galaxy that know how to use ranged weaponry and war machines. Most of their equipment is cobbled together from scrap; a Slugga or a Shoota is just a run down piece of garbage that is usually jammed with broken or rusted firing mechanisms - they only work in the hands of an Ork because of their Waaagh! energy.

Unless something has been updated and I missed it (in which case let me know where to find it because I love reading about Orks), this is a common misconception. We don't actually know how Ork tech functions. The explanation that Ork tech works off of "WAAAGH" power or simply because "they believe it should" was actually the summation of either the Inquisition or the Mechanicum (I don't recall which). They came to that conclusion after inspecting a ton of Ork tech and failing to discern how it worked. The Imperium literally could not understand the "primitive" Ork tech. So that whole explanation isn't actually official canon. It's just one race's explanation of something they can't explain in any other way. Ork tech isn't "primitive" imo. It's just very different.

Orks are supposed to be low tek, powerful and found in huge numbers, so they need certain drawbacks to compensate (and bad shooting and no invul. fits perfectly imo). In fact, I would even change KFF to give a random ++ vs shooting (throw a dice) but that on a 1, it explodes and hurts your troops instead.

The problem is that Orks currently have ALL of the drawbacks you mention without having ANY of the upsides you mention. An additional nerf to the KFF is seriously uncalled for, and the last thing we need is MORE random stuff. In the fluff Orks are regularly seen with very strong force fields and are actually one of the races most likely to have a powerful force field of some kind. So allowing more access to the KFF would be fairly fluffy IMO.

It seems a common complaint on here about Orks is that people don't like the randomised results or the fact they can blow themselves up. But that's how Orks have been ever since 1st edition; in my view it's a pretty big part of the character of the army. If people don't like that, then I sort of wonder why they're playing Orks in the first place.

This I can agree with. Orks have always been like this. I used to joke about my 2nd Ed Orks that "If you weren't doing as much damage to yourself as you were to the enemy, that you weren't fighting hard enough". The problem is, back then, while you had a chance to harm your own army, the possible upsides were pretty strong. You could do some real harm to the enemy. I was ok with that balance. The problem is that we now have an Ork book that maintains the randomness and penalties and damage to our own troops, but that really struggles to hurt the enemy at the same time.

I think the proposed changes by the OP in this thread are in the right direction but might go too far. I think if you start with the 4th ed book as a base and then adjust points costs to be more in line with the current rules and add in some of the new toys you'd be in good shape.

Tycho wrote:

Orks are one of the most primitive races in the galaxy that know how to use ranged weaponry and war machines. Most of their equipment is cobbled together from scrap; a Slugga or a Shoota is just a run down piece of garbage that is usually jammed with broken or rusted firing mechanisms - they only work in the hands of an Ork because of their Waaagh! energy.

Unless something has been updated and I missed it (in which case let me know where to find it because I love reading about Orks), this is a common misconception. We don't actually know how Ork tech functions. The explanation that Ork tech works off of "WAAAGH" power or simply because "they believe it should" was actually the summation of either the Inquisition or the Mechanicum (I don't recall which). They came to that conclusion after inspecting a ton of Ork tech and failing to discern how it worked. The Imperium literally could not understand the "primitive" Ork tech. So that whole explanation isn't actually official canon. It's just one race's explanation of something they can't explain in any other way. Ork tech isn't "primitive" imo. It's just very different.

As quoted from Lexicanum, cited with the novel Predator, Prey:

A gathering of Orks generates a psychic field known as the Waaagh!, which allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is "bigga" and therefore in charge. The Waagh! also seems to warp reality to fit Orkish beliefs, allowing their ramshackle technology to function properly. If Orks are convinced that their designs are sound and functional, the Waaagh! makes them so. Other races have found that many Orkish devices simply do not work unless wielded by an Orkoid. Similarly, it is an article of faith among Orks that explosives become more powerful when they're painted, and that their vehicles go faster when given a Red Paint Job. This may sound nonsensical, but because the Orks believe this to be true, the Waaagh! makes it true. During the War of the Beast, members of the Adeptus Mechanicus noticed how Ork weapons only seemed to activate when it came into contact with a Greenskin.[5b]

People seem to confuse form over function. Ork technology is primitive - it's cobbled together from whatever junk fits together best. That's got nothing to do with how effective it is, which considering how it is built, is very good indeed.

I'm not a fan of the SAG really. I have 4 of them now I can't seem to roll very well at all with them. If the average roll is 7 I seem to roll a 4 or 5. I'm lucky when I can roll 6'6 aiming at a target ar about 10" from the SAGMek. They're not fun as in I think I'll get a good roll they're fun as in my opponent is worried about my roll.
That's where I fund the fun in them. I expect nothing but failure from my rolls.

 General Annoyance wrote:

People seem to confuse form over function. Ork technology is primitive - it's cobbled together from whatever junk fits together best. That's got nothing to do with how effective it is, which considering how it is built, is very good indeed.

Yup this is why mars tried to reverse engineer it and didn't mind sacrificing numerous planets in order to get a better chance at it.

As quoted from Lexicanum, cited with the novel Predator, Prey: ...

Ah. So they have updated it. That's a shame! I rather liked it being a bit of a mystery to the other races! Thanks for the source too. I was on the fence about that series, but I'll definitely be checking it out now!

I'm not a fan of the SAG really. I have 4 of them now I can't seem to roll very well at all with them. If the average roll is 7 I seem to roll a 4 or 5. I'm lucky when I can roll 6'6 aiming at a target ar about 10" from the SAGMek. They're not fun as in I think I'll get a good roll they're fun as in my opponent is worried about my roll.
That's where I fund the fun in them. I expect nothing but failure from my rolls.

The SAG is a really good example of what I was mentioning before about the risk vs reward thing. This used to be a gun capable of downing Titans with a single shot. Of course it could also equally ruin the Ork's day, but for that kind of power, that's a trade-off I'll happily take! That was 2nd ed though and things were ... crazy back then ...

I certainly don't think it should still be that powerful, but for what amounts to (as you point out) a gun that ends up being on average str 7, AP2 and is a blast weapon ... it's just not worth it IMO.

 General Annoyance wrote:
To assume that their technology is anything better than improvised scrap is playing ignorant to their lore, and to take their ridiculous contraptions and their reason for existing seriously and negatively

Why are you under the false assumption that the only way you can take them seriously is if you take them negatively?

Do you really hate Orks that much?

 Melissia wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
To assume that their technology is anything better than improvised scrap is playing ignorant to their lore, and to take their ridiculous contraptions and their reason for existing seriously and negatively

Why are you under the false assumption that the only way you can take them seriously is if you take them negatively?

Do you really hate Orks that much?

Did you stop reading that sentence halfway through?

 General Annoyance wrote:


To assume that their technology is anything better than improvised scrap is playing ignorant to their lore, and to take their ridiculous contraptions and their reason for existing seriously and negatively is missing one of the most important aspects of the Orks - their comic relief in an otherwise grimdark universe.

Come on Mel, you literally made something out of chopping my statement in half - my rebuttal was regarding Warhead seemingly taking the self destructive nature of Ork weaponry with a negative connotation, as in it shouldn't exist.

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm not a fan of the SAG really. I have 4 of them now I can't seem to roll very well at all with them. If the average roll is 7 I seem to roll a 4 or 5. I'm lucky when I can roll 6'6 aiming at a target ar about 10" from the SAGMek. They're not fun as in I think I'll get a good roll they're fun as in my opponent is worried about my roll.
That's where I fund the fun in them. I expect nothing but failure from my rolls.

We are talking about a game packed with chance here, so I wouldn't blame yourself in that regard for having a narrow range of success for them - you're just simply unlucky. It would be nicer if the rules for scatter markers were more lenient to Orks considering they only have BS2. I think that would make SAGs a lot more appealing.

I can't remember if SAG's now roll on 2D6 instead of 1 since my Warboss Edition codex is locked away somewhere in another country. Is this the case now, and are most of the results good or bad for the player?

We are talking about a game packed with chance here, so I wouldn't blame yourself in that regard for having a narrow range of success for them - you're just simply unlucky. It would be nicer if the rules for scatter markers were more lenient to Orks considering they only have BS2. I think that would make SAGs a lot more appealing.

The scatter isn't my problem at all. Scatter is part of my usual game plan. Aim toward the center of the other army and roll. If I'm honest I hit more often than miss. It's the luck with the chart. er, just that chart. I've only once had a Blitzbomber crash on it's bombing run.
Being ap2 and Large blast is the biggest thing the SAG seems to have going for it.

I can't remember if SAG's now roll on 2D6 instead of 1 since my Warboss Edition codex is locked away somewhere in another country. Is this the case now, and are most of the results good or bad for the player?

2D6.

Orks are definitely not primitive, what comes off as primitive is truly their aspect of being alien, as an Ork's simplicity comes from their very simple desires to make war as an innate drive rather than any typical reason that any other xenos or human usually does. They don't do it for any ends like power, wealth, or even to live. Therefore, given their brutal simplicity it's not surprising most opt for the most visceral and straightforward weapons they can get their grubby hands on which are choppas and shootas, The fact that they're still a viable threat with these weapons already implies that they're not wrong in their assumptions, and those that do survive continually look for more dakka and choppiness in their weapons.

Also you mentioned how Orks don't have portable plasma weapons, that's actually wrong, as proven during the Great Crusade with the Ork world of Gorro, another example of Ork technological might where the Orks had built an effective planet from an asteroid by expanding it with space debris and scraps, being held by a "Field technology unknown to the Mechanicum bound the layered depths of Gorro together, and those same technologies made it virtually invulnerable to bombardment" including exterminates level weaponry. It even states that the power source of the field and the thing holding the planet itself was an Ork created self-sustaining plasma sphere contained by a warp fold envelope. Unsurprisingly, Orks here also had plasma weapons out the wazoo since the Ork mekboyz there dabbled into it a lot more and it took the Emperor himself with his Custodes alongside Horus to cleanse the planet. This is also, interestingly, where the Warboss that almost choked the life out of the Emperor comes from.

So a lot of advanced Ork technology has to do with what inspires and interests Meks via trial and error, hence why the creation of Stompas and Gargants had a lot to do with Orks witnessing Imperials use titans. Just like an artist bases off his works through what he has been exposed to, Ork technology expands similarly which coincides with the size of an Ork WAAAGH! or Empire, since it expands the exposure of different enemies and tech that makes Ork Mekboyz really innovate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:

We are talking about a game packed with chance here, so I wouldn't blame yourself in that regard for having a narrow range of success for them - you're just simply unlucky. It would be nicer if the rules for scatter markers were more lenient to Orks considering they only have BS2. I think that would make SAGs a lot more appealing.

The scatter isn't my problem at all. Scatter is part of my usual game plan. Aim toward the center of the other army and roll. If I'm honest I hit more often than miss. It's the luck with the chart. er, just that chart. I've only once had a Blitzbomber crash on it's bombing run.
Being ap2 and Large blast is the biggest thing the SAG seems to have going for it.

I can't remember if SAG's now roll on 2D6 instead of 1 since my Warboss Edition codex is locked away somewhere in another country. Is this the case now, and are most of the results good or bad for the player?

2D6.

I understand where you stand regarding SAG, as strength 7 is the best we can bet on regarding strength rolls, and nothing is more saddening than rolling S3 or S4 for the SAG, especially for the 50 points price tag. They made it marginally better with it being 10 points cheaper and some of the negative results not being as bad, but I think that there should be some level of control for the Ork player to make "calibrations", like an option to go "all out" versus going for a safer dakka route. So the standard profile would be strength 2D6+2, no table for rolling any doubles. Then we have a secondary profile where the Big Meks lets loose with the vacuum portion of the gun and it becomes 3D6+2, pick the two highest dice for strength, but roll on the table if you roll any doubles. Any results over 10, are simply treated as S10, with the model hit in the center counting the hit as strength D. This way its still random but not punishingly so.

 Grimskul wrote:
Also you mentioned how Orks don't have portable plasma weapons, that's actually wrong, as proven ....

Hes wrong on almost all of his orks can't do this, orks can't do that claims. But thats ok its hard to admit that even the brand new plastic fish cans on stilts are still smaller and less killy than our scrap heap challenge stompa's ; )

 General Annoyance wrote:
Come on Mel, you literally made something out of chopping my statement in half

No, I dispute your asinine assertion that the only way you can like Orks is by not taking them seriously, which is exactly what you have been arguing. The "comedy" aspect of Orks is the very most surface level of them. If you're unable to see anything else, you don't really like Orks. There is FAR more to Orks than "green buffoons who get drunk and shoot lots of primitive-looking guns inaccurately".

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Also you mentioned how Orks don't have portable plasma weapons, that's actually wrong, as proven ....

Hes wrong on almost all of his orks can't do this, orks can't do that claims. But thats ok its hard to admit that even the brand new plastic fish cans on stilts are still smaller and less killy than our scrap heap challenge stompa's ; )

Amen to that! One of the highlights of my games against my resident Tau playing friend is how I managed to take down the last wound from his Stormsurge with the remaining S3 attacks of a very depleted Ork boyz squad. I imagined the Ork boy just scaling his way to the exposed cockpit at the top before throwing a stikkbomb in and dying in a glorious fashion. And this was after the stormsurge had rolled a 6 for the stomp and squashed my lucky stikk mega armour warboss! At least stompas can't die from S3 weapons

 General Annoyance wrote:


The tradeoff for such powerful weapons in the Ork codex should be their unreliable nature - the Shokk Attack Gun has a chance to fire its operator across the battlefield equal to the chance of opening a rift that insta kills infantry in its vicinity and gouging vehicles to smouldering wrecks. The only thing I'd change is a points cost, since the probable reason why it's turning you off is because of the price point, which should really be cheaper than it is considering that tradeoff in wildly varying firepower. Just don't rip away what makes bringing these ridiculous contraptions to the battlefield so funny and unpredictable.

The Shokk attack gun is a perfect example of how GW fethed up the randomness of the Ork faction. Go take a gander at the chart for a shokk attack gun. ALL of the results are bad or at best nerfs to what the gun can do except when you roll double 6s.

1s: You kill yourself.
2s: You kill your own models
3s: You feth up the nearest unit (Probably your own)
4s: use the small blast instead of large
5s: Fire your Big Mek instead of a shot....your Big Mek is basically dead.
5 and a 6: you only hit the 1 model under the center hole, hope you weren't shooting a squad.




THAT my friend is the problem with how the ork codex is currently written. 2 results basically kill your Big Mek (85pts down the drain minimum) 1 definitely kills your own troops, 1 has a good chance to kill your own troops, 1 nerfs the gun to small blast, and 1 causes only 1 wound against a target, which is fine if its a vehicle but otherwise it sucks.

Now if the table was 50/50 it would be a different story, but its not.

 General Annoyance wrote:

Despite Orks being able to do what you listed, they still can't:

Accurately navigate through the warp,
Program their portable tellyporta technology to be more reliable
Have proper manipulation over what their tractor weapons
Stop technology such as large tellyporta fields and force fields from failing and/or exploding



Anti grav technology


Created drone technology


Created Battlesuit technology


energy or pulse based weaponry from scratch


Perfected stronger body armour that fits their physiology


Advanced medical technology, cybernetics and treatment of injuries


Made any precision, long ranged weaponry, such as Sniper Rifles or Railguns


Replicated Gyrojet or self propelled ammunition


Special ammunition


Created genetic enhancements


Created powered armour outside of Mega Armour


Created Battleship Lance technology


Built or tested vectored thrusters


Developed better rapid insertion methods than Roks, such as Drop Pods and Grav Chutes



Replicated man portable grav technology
As in grav guns, do we really want more of those ?


-Replicated man portable plasma technology

 Melissia wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
Come on Mel, you literally made something out of chopping my statement in half

No, I dispute your asinine assertion that the only way you can like Orks is by not taking them seriously, which is exactly what you have been arguing.

I don't recall saying that at all, I was pointing out the possibility of someone taking the random rolls for certain Ork equipment far too seriously.

The "comedy" aspect of Orks is the very most surface level of them. If you're unable to see anything else, you don't really like Orks.

So according to you I can't like Orks as passionately as I do because I consider their humour to be one of their most important, if not their most important aspect.

Huh...

Still, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on what makes the Orks the race we know and love, that hasn't been covered by me already in this thread.

Again, I never said it was their only aspect, just one of their most important ones.

There is FAR more to Orks than "green buffoons who get drunk and shoot lots of primitive-looking guns inaccurately".

Not all of them are buffoons, not all of them get drunk, but they do love a lot of dakka and can't hit the broadside of a barn. Again, you're taking what I said far out of context and assuming that's what I think about all Orks. They have their serious side, but their most important aspect is the comedy relief they bring to an otherwise very serious universe through their actions.

I haven't got any beef with you Mel, and I get as a fellow Orkoid enthusiast how you don't like people who obsess over Orks and their comedy element. Just take a step back and read what I said before you try this again - Orks are not really that complex when you go through everything; their mentality when approaching almost anything is the same, as are their cultural values and their views on the galaxy, and this is what amalgamates into who they are, combined with the humorous fashion they go about this. I don't think I'm being " asinine" at all when I say this.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
So according to you I can't like Orks as passionately as I do because I consider their humour to be one of their most important, if not their most important aspect.

Yes. It is like enjoying the Lord of the Rings books for the big battle scenes. That's perfectly fine, but trying to claim that if you don't take the battle scenes all that seriously will make me immediately think you really just don't get Lord of the Rings, yourself. Because you're presumptuously attacking other people for their likes and dislikes while only ever looking at the bare-bones surface level.

their mentality when approaching almost anything is the same

This is imperial propaganda, they want us to fear barbarian hordes from outer space

Ork culture is really complex more so than that of most lower races even if you ignored the huge cultural differences between the clans. Its just that GW tends to show only a small part of underdeveloped versions of the culture.There is more to orks than just skreaming WAAAAAaaaagh during a scrapheap fist fight. Sure this might be it at the surface but there are interesting shards of their lost civilization visible when you look a bit closer.
They captured Terra by manipulating and blackmailing the high lords. That has to count for something right, what other alien species have achieved this ?

Orks are more than comedy. They are the unending, unstoppable horde of barbarians at the gate. They are a race who are at first glance primitive, but in truth they can make any technology work, and have some of the most advanced technology in the setting-- exceeding in some places even that of the Necrons, Tau, and Eldar. They have a stable society that every single Ork respects and believes in to the very core of their soul, and finds all other societies abominable-- no other race has achieved this except the Tyranids, who only managed it because of a lack of free will. An individual Ork with a few battles under his belt is merely a relentless, nigh-unkillable monster that can match an unarmored Space Marine in melee combat with equal prowess. And they only grow stronger, larger, and smarter with age. Chaos has tried over and over again to subvert and thwart the Green Menace, but what little they can manage cannot stem the Tide. The Imperium delayed the Orks only by sending the largest known Tyranid hive fleet at them-- and that may yet backfire, for the unending warfare that the Orks in Octarius face may produce Ork heroes the likes of which make even Ghazghkull look tiny in comparison.

We look at their actions and we see eccentricities, goofiness, and silliness. A joke. But in truth, they are internally consistent to a fault, perfectly logical killing machines for whom the current state of the galaxy is nothing less than an afterlife brought to their mortal souls.

I like this quote a lot

Provost-Major Kyne, at the court-martial of Lt Gordo 4th editiom ork codex wrote: Half-glimpsed shadows? Ork wearing camouflage? Do you take us for imbeciles? Orks are barbaric and entirely single-minded. Army dogma, which has served us well for ten thousand years, teaches us this. Greenskins come on in a great horde, they do not slink and sneak in the shade. Guards! Take the prisoner to the holding cells to await execution for cowardice and incompetence.