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Everything wrong with the Ork Codex.

HQ:

Big Mek: There isn’t anything specifically terrible about this unit, the problem is there isn’t anything that great about it either. It is the cheapest HQ model in the Ork Codex, it comes equipped as a nob with a slugga/choppa and T-shirt armor. The only difference between a Big Mek and a common Nob is that the Big Mek is about twice the cost and has +1 Leadership and Mek Toolz. You can upgrade this guy a bunch of ways, giving him a SAG (Highly unreliable but fluffy and fun weapon) or a KFF to give some incredibly expensive unit an incredibly expensive 5++. Overall he isn’t that bad it is just sad that he and all his upgrades are so heavily overpriced considering he doesn’t do much and his upgrades are not that great.

Zagstruk: Think of an expensive well equipped Storm Nob, he does have Eavy armor which is impossible to get with Storm Boyz so that is a plus, he also has a S8 AP2 HoW attack which is also nice but again not that useful, lastly. He doesn’t have any weapons. Your paying 65pts for a model that once he gets into CC is little better then a nob without a PK or Big Choppa.

Grukk: A ridiculously expensive Warboss with a 5+ FNP included in his price….literally, he is 130pts, he is WS5 and T5, so he does have that going for him I guess, but for that price I could take a Warboss, give him a PK, DLS and have almost enough points left over to give that warboss a Bike, making him T6, better guns and a lot quicker. Final Analysis, far too expensive and not enough benefits over a Vanilla Warboss.

Kaptin Badrukk: A Flash Git warlord, do I need to say more?

Mad Dok Grotsnik: 160pts for a doc that has a power klaw and a couple special rules, including one that gives himself a 6+ FNP….even though since he is a Dok he already has a 5+ FNP…Genius GW GENIUS. This guy is just too expensive to ever be fielded except in fluffy games.

Painboy: A Nob that confers 5+ FNP, not bad but too many points and this used to be an upgrade for a number of units.

Warboss: This is the bread and butter of most Ork HQ choices. The warboss can take so much gear and is rightly feared around the game because they are very tough to hurt and when they get into CC against non CC opponents they tear them apart, usually. The downside to this model is that like the entire Ork Codex it is useless outside of Close combat, and once it gets INTO close combat it doesn’t have an invul save so it dies to good CC opponents. The only proper ways to equip a warboss are either on a Bike with a PK and DLS or in Mega Armor with DLS in a transport with either boyz or some MA nobz.

Weirdboy: Really this is the ultimate fluffy HQ choice for orks, we have access to our Ork powers and demonology, that’s it. And we perils on doubles with demonology. The Ork powers are almost entirely shooting which is terrible because our BS is still 2, the other things we have are Da Jump which is a way to teleport the Weirdboy and his squad around the table, not that good actually for obvious reasons (Mishaps, and 30+models jumping = GIANT TARGET). We also have an ability which gives +1 attack which isn’t terrible but it is pretty useless. Orks have a problem getting into CC not killing everything in CC. a 30 strong boyz unit on the charge has 116 S4 attacks and 4S 9 attacks. All at WS4. Making that 145 and 5 isn’t going to help all that much except moving it from 99% certain victory to 100% (Yes there are certain snowflake units this isn’t true for but generally this is right)

Zhadsnark: I actually love this character from FW, I dislike his points cost and that he has to give up a lot of other stuff to get his abilities. Zhad allows Bikers to be troops, he also (More importantly in my opinion) has skilled Rider which conveys to his squad. So with Orkz you now have a Biker unit that has a 3+ Jink (2+ if its night fighting or you turbo boosted on your turn) you combine that with a warboss with DLS and you have the only 2+ rerollable our army can get. His other benefit is that he has a Initiative 4 Power Klaw that hits at S10 AP2. Otherwise he is just a regular warboss on a bike but with a 6+ armor save.

ELITE:

Nobz: Without wound pool shenanigans they suck. 18pts for a single model. If you upgrade them to have eavy armor and a PK you’re paying MORE for them then you would for a MA nob. Give them bikes? It costs more to give a Nob a bike then it does to give an IC a bike or to give a SM Chapter master a bike. WHY! A PK Nob on a bike is going to run you 70pts a model! SM players don’t even pay that much for sergeants with PFs on bike.

MA Nobz: Got slightly better with the Mob rule, but doesn’t change the fact that they don't have access to a CC Invul, and the only way you can get a FNP is to buy an IC for 50pts and attach him to that squad. Plus not benefitting from Waaagh really sucks for these guys (Can’t run, Sweep or fire over-watch) These guys do have 2Ws on a 2+ save model, unfortunately they are only T4 so they get spammed and Insta Gibbed fairly often, especially against that Sergeant with a PF who can possibly kill 2 himself.

Burna Boyz: unplayable at the moment because they NEED a battlewagon to even function and they cost far too much to do that. 6+ Armor save is a problem again for these guys, teamed with the inability to use their weapons meaningfully make them a poor choice. Burna boyz get to choose whether to use their weapon as a S4 flamer OR as an AP3 two handed weapon that swings at Initiative 2, not both. Why is that a problem you ask? Well since flamers have a very short range you’re going to want to flame and assault not just flame or just assault. But with everything GW has done for Orks these days it is not that surprising. At 16pts a model you would expect them to at least get a 4+ armor save, but nope T-shirts across the board.

Kommandos: I have yet to see them fielded in any kind of game except For fun games. They are just too pricey for what little they can do, think of expensive boyz that have Camo Paint. If they had the ability to assault from reserve or had some kind of bonus that made fielding them more beneficial it would be a different story. The irony here is that GW realized that Orks have a bunch of different weapons that are more useful for different squads and have priced the most beneficial weapon for each squad to the extreme. Burnas are essentially a SM Flamer, which on a T4, 3+ armor model is a 5pt upgrade. On a Kommando with his T4 6+ armor it costs 15 POINTS! But for some reason for SMs the point cost for a flamer is pretty much 5pts across the board. Yes a Burna can turn into a two handed Power sword when needed but a SM Sgt can take a 1 handed power sword for 15pts as is. So essentially Kommanos are paying MAX points for a flamer weapon that can be used as a crappier version of a power sword.

Tankbustas: Arguably one of the best units in the Ork Codex. Boyz armed with Rokkitz….that is literally what a Tank Busta unit is. They do get 2 special rules though, Tank Hunter and Glory hog, Glory Hog allows the ork player to get 2pts for First blood if the first blood kill is a vehicle and if the Tank busta’s kill it. This isn’t a bad rule but realistically it isn’t that great, nor realistic. With Range 24 that means the Tankbusta unit is going to have to be right on the line of deployment line and the enemy vehicle within 6 of it to even have a shot at this. At 13pts a model they aren’t that expensive, but a regular boy with a rokkit costs 11pts and that is considered to be too much to be worth taking. This just reinforces my opinion that Boyz should be 5pts a model and weapon upgrades should be reduced in price by 20% or more. That would bring the cost of Tank bustas to 11pts a model (Unless they discount the price of Tank hunter on a S8 BS2 platform which they should) these guys wouldn’t be bad and in fact completely worth it if in that 13pts they included Eavy armor. That would make them a bit more likely to survive when their trukk transport inevitably explodes.

Grot Tanks: I love Grot tanks, I love how silly they look, I love the fluff for them, what I don’t like is the rules and the price. A Grot Tank is basically an AV 10/10/10 Killa Kan that can’t run or flat out. It is limited in range of weapons (rng 36 with a bit shoota, everything else 24 and under) They move 2D6 instead of like normal vehicles so they are highly unreliable, and with such short ranged weapons this is actually a big deal. Each tank costs 35pts but realistically you only buy them to bring in Grotzookas so its 45pts. You have to take a kommanda to make them remotely reliable so theres another 15pts, and the extra grotzooka for the kommanda, so for 3 tanks with AV 10/10/10 4 Range 18 Grotzookas and a movement of 2D6 (Rerollable because of Kommanda) you’re paying 160pts they do have a 5++ except against destroyer, ordinance and armor bane so that is nice. Overall just too expensive and short ranged for that kind of price. Plus AV 10 means that they are susceptible to almost everything in the game.

TROOPS:
Boyz: T4 used to matter, it doesn't anymore. T4 is about the average now and that teamed with 6+ armor = lots of dead orks, but that is what the game creators want, or at least that is what every Tau/Eldar/SM player keeps telling me. Furthermore, Boyz are S3 which means that if you don't win combat on the charge, you’re going to get bogged down really quickly. S3 Vs T4 = wounding on 5s. Furthermore the new Mob Rule really gimps orks because it makes it almost impossible to function. In a big blob you take a lot of casualties because when you fail a LD test you have to hurt D6 boyz. Worse, for a smaller unit of 10 boyz you NEED a nob to even use Mob Rule, and in case you as the reader have never played against Orks, BOYZ NEED A NOB! Without that nob they don't even benefit from Mob Rule once they drop below 10 models, because of that your Average Ork player doesn't like accepting challenges with his precious nob for fear that he will get challenged out and die, thereby destroying the units only chance at passing a moral test. (Except by rolling a 1 if in CC) Boyz have to pay to have a Rng 18 assault 2 bolter. Do that math on that nonsense, 10 orks = 20 shots at BS2 = 6 hits at S4. Adding Big Shootas and Rokkitz to boyz units is just a waste of points.

Gretchin: Possibly the cheapest troop choice in the game. 35pts gets you 10 Grots and a Runtherder (Fancy name for an ork with a stick) Gretchin have no armor, they are WS2 BS3 and T2 with leadership 7 because of the runtherder (no mob rule) To put this into perspective game wise, if you sneeze at them they will die, A bolter is wounding them on 2s with no armor save allowed. Nobody uses these things except as tax units or cheap objective holders. You don’t really care about them going to ground in cover to hold an objective because at 3pts a model with a S3 12inch gun you’re just not going to be using them for anything.

FAST ATTACK
Warbikers: LD 7 means they are going to be running away frequently, if they even live that long. Exhaust cloud being gone kind of sucks, it was nice not having to jink. Overall these are probably the best unit in the Ork Codex and even they need some tweaks to help them out. Ork boyz need S4 across the board that is a given, but these bikers really make it apparent since they don’t have the numbers to really drown an opponent in S3 wounds (S4 on the charge). The Nob upgrade is 10pts not terrible but still to much, and really why is a PK so heavily priced still? That is why the Warbikers are so good, the only downsides are the ones faced by the entire ork codex, overpriced upgrades.

ALL ORK PLANES/FLYERS: AV10 all around, no dakka and overpriced. I have yet to find a use for any of these things that can’t be accomplished better and for cheaper by something else in the Ork Codex.

Storm Boyz: If they didn't have the negative of killing themselves in droves they would be usable and possibly competitive in a rushing army, at least give some difference lists a shot instead of the FA slots being filled with Warbikers and the occasional DeffKopta. Overall they are over-priced and lack a benefit over trukk boyz or Warbikers.

Deff Kopta: Still expensive, Still has leadership issues, just got a bit cheaper and no longer paying for Rokkitz. However they are just Boyz which means that they are S3 or S6 (with Saw) so they aren't as much of a threat to vehicles as your opponent thinks they are since that TL Rokkit you have isn’t going to do much. And even if the damned thing hits it’s still only S8

Warbuggies: They aren't terrible but they don't have enough dakka to play with. If you could triple the amount of Dakka on them they would be good, and worth paying an extra 5pts for. AV10 means they aren't going to live long after they arrive from reserve. Fun unit to play with in a friendly game but useless competitively.

Trukkz: probably the most over rated Ork vehicle in the game. Back when vehicles were hard to kill Trukk spam was a thing, especially with Ramshackle. The current model is just terrible. An AV 10/10/10 Open topped transport that has no saves and the change of ramshackle to a 1/6 chance to downgrade a pen to a glance is just garbage. I try to avoid using trukks that often because in my experience they explode about 50% of the time and when they do they decimate (Actually it kills closer to ½ the unit inside). Everyone tells me how amazing an assault transport is and I tend to agree with them, but for the points I am paying for it, and how weak it is, it just isn’t doable.

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Flash Gitz: SO EXPENSIVE, NO ARMOR, SHORT RANGE, why do they all have boss poles? Situational upgrade that gives them BS3 but only if they don't move....which they need to since with range 24 guns they won't be in range. Random AP means they might be good, they might be gak.

Lootas: Same as before, slighty cheaper and moved to the HS slot where they now have to compete against Mek Gunz and other toyz. They die in droves to a stiff breeze and with so many weapons in the game now that ignore cover they generally don't get a save of any sort and are dead or worthless by turn 2-3. What really hurts them though is the D3 shots. If this was D3+1 or even better D3+2 it would be amazing. I would actually start using these buggers again. Not to mention that these guys need access to cheap git findaz.

Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun, Bubble Chucka, ZZap Gun are useless. Completely un-fieldable if you are attempting to be even remotely competitive. These also need access to git findaz since they are probably not moving during the game they could reasonably be sure to use the damned things. A slight reduction in price or an increase in leadership is what these buggers need. Teamed with more weapons that are usable.

Killa Kanz got a 45%ish increase in price, lost 3 strength on their klaw profile AND are the only vehicle in the game with leadership problems that I know of, that all teamed with significantly crappy weapon choices means that this once useful unit is utter trash. Whomever wrote the Ork Codex had some serious PTSD issues about facing a Kan wall because they made it impossible to field it in this edition.

Deff Dreads: Just too expensive for what little they can do. They also got a significant nerf when SM Dreads all got a buff. 4 CCW is barely enough to keep up with a dreadnoughts 1 CCW? How does that work. If they were cheaper and could be taken in squadrons it would be a different story, especially if they were given some kind of save to negate the fact that they die rather quickly I this edition.

Mork/Gork: Seriously the worst pile of garbage GW has ever tried to shove down our throats. These models are $$$ EXPENSIVE and they are expensive to use on the table. For the 230+pts these things cost you would expect them to put out some decent dakka but they don't. Gorkanaut is the biggest offender with its Gatling gun which shoots on average 10 shots, of which 2-3 will hit and only at S6. It has 2 Rokkitz (in 3 turns you’re going to get 2 hits on average) They both also have 2 TL Big Shootas which pathetically tend to do the most damage 6 S5 TL shots is averaging about 3-4 hits a turn, not terrible but not worth the points. Finally the vehicles each mount a belly gun, The Gork has a Skorcha which is great, except that as a walker it has little chance to get into range to use it, and once it is in range you’re not really going to want to use it because you might ruin your charge distance for that giant S10 AP1 Klaw you have, which for some odd reason is only WS4 and still not enough attacks on the profile to justify the point cost. The Mork has a KMK and a KMB to differentiate between itself and the gorkanaut, the KMK is a good weapon, but it overheats which is a bit of a problem, the KMB overheats as well which means that you have a 1/6 chance to hurt yourself and a 1/3 chance to hit your target.

Battle Wagon: 110pts for a 14/12/10 isn’t that terrible until you realize that it doesn’t have any weapons. Properly equipped with 4 weapons and a ram this transport (it’s a transport not a tank, no matter how much you want it to be a tank it just isn’t) is a 135pt open topped transport, not bad. It has no special rules, it has no saves of any kind and is so big that its pretty hard to get a cover bonus but otherwise this is ok. The only fix for this vehicle is reduce its price by 20pts, reduce the price for a number of its upgrades and increase the range/strength of the Kill Kannon to make it worth taking (BS Large blasts suck, so at least give us some good benefits to the damned thing).



LORD OF WAR

Stompa is just too overpriced to function in most lists. It has decent dakka but unreliable still. For 770pts it fething needs a built in 4++ or at the worst a 5++.

Ghaz: I honestly don't know of a more useless LoW in any army that is a character. Seriously this is supposed to be the best Ork in the galaxy and he costs 225pts. But a Warboss in MA is almost as good as he is (1 less WS and Attacks). Hell you could buy 2 MA Warbosses for less points and they would do more damage than Ghaz can. He needs a HUGE Buff otherwise retcon him and give us a new Ork Warboss who is worth following. And the Decurion to make him worth taking? Yeah garbage. I am not paying 1,200 points just to make ghaz useful.

Where are you going with this?

He wants to whine. Again. It's some sort of pessimistic stand up comedy i guess.

 koooaei wrote:
He wants to whine. Again. It's some sort of pessimistic stand up comedy i guess.

"The stop sign is broken, it fell over in the storm"

"He just wants to whine"

No the actual point is that I am actually writing up another post right now on how these units can be improved very simply and how they can be best utilized as they stand, but your pessimism is appreciated it fuels my hatred of GW

To be fair you should have mentioned that in the first post.

 warhead01 wrote:
To be fair you should have mentioned that in the first post.

Yeah I should have your right, I was running out the door and forgot to include that part.

Keep up the complaints, im Space Wolves and KDK player and if my codexes were remotely as bad...... It just breaks my heart to see an underdog fun army being THIS horrible

Orks needs justice bump!

I love orks and had ork in fantasy as first army and also on 40k. I love play with them and their lore

And saidly all what SemperMortis said is true. The codex is a pile of garbage.


Specially humiliating when you realice that the last ork supplements were released close at same time than other space marine supplements. But the ork one is baaaaaaaaaaaad while marine is coll close to op.
And then released the new ships, and the ork one is baaaaaad and marine is cool.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now released another marine stuff (because they have very few and the army is bad....) with new good units and the spaceship more op from game.




Yeah, I can understand his frustration

I wrote something similar a while back but what started as a opinion piece on a few tweaks that would help the Orks out turned into a more proposed rules type thing to make basically a new Ork codex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688819.page#8618005

HQ: FIXES

GENERAL HQ FIXES: Every Ork HQ should start with Eavy Armor, these guys are supposed to be the leaders of this faction, no excuse not to wear better armor then a T-shirt.

Upgrades and equipment receives a 20-25% points decrease, a PK should be 20pts at most.

+1 Leadership across the board, every one of these guys needs higher leadership.

Some kind of Invul save for characters. 5-10pts for a 5+ maybe 15pts for a 4+. We need this more than almost any other faction.

Big Mek: For starters the Big Mek needs to be better than just a Nob, He is a Warboss who likes to work on his trukk on the weekends . So with that in mind I think S5 and T5 is warranted, he can still have 2 wounds instead of 3 and WS4 instead of 5 to distinguish between himself and a regular Warboss. Secondly, the SAG needs to be updated so it isn’t such hot garbage, as well as the other upgrades for the Big Mek. Tellyporta blasta is a cool option, but it isn’t used because it’s so short ranged, you have almost as much chance to kill yourself as the enemy YAY BS2. Finally I would revert the KFF to its old rules.

Zagstruk: Points decrease for this guy is a must, I also think a PK at initiative instead of his Klaw feet is what is needed to make him playable. In fact I would give him 5-10point bump if he was given an At initiative PK. I also would let him take Stormboyz as troops.

Grukk: I have never been a fan of this guy, 130pts for a Warboss with FNP, a Kombi Rokkit (1/3 chance to hit someone with it) and comes standard with Eavy armor and a PK that has shred. (Shred btw lets you reroll failed to wound rolls, not very useful on a S10 AP2 weapon since its basically reroll 1s) I wouldn’t mind if they got rid of Grukk completely, they won’t because they made a model and everything, but to make him actually worth 130pts I think give him Zealot to go along with Shred and definitely a invul of some kind, 4++, I would also recommend changing the kombi weapon to a Skorcha for the obvious reason that its more reliable.

Kaptin Badrukk: First off, way too expensive, I would drop him by 20points, give him a Power Sword style weapon. Fix Git findaz to work when moving and allow him to take Flash Gitz as Troops.

Mad Dok Grotsnik: Give him a 5++, drop the points cost by 40, poof fixed.

Painboy: Drop the points cost by 15-20, give him access to CC Weapons and allow Orks to take 1-3 as a single HQ Choice.

Warboss: Biggest thing for a warboss is that he NEEDS an invul save. I would also love to give him a different relic besides DLS and occasionally Da Finkin Cap. The other relics are useless for the most part and that is just sad seeing as how many opportunities are being squandered. After that, just make upgrades cheaper.

Weirdboy: -10pts. Give access to other branches of psychic powers and completely fix Ork powers. Da Krunch would be so much better if it was more reliable. Also some kind of power that gives SPEED to orks rather then “Da Jump” is needed. Maybe something that gives a target unit +6 inches movement would be useful. Also we really need something beyond shooting attacks for a BS2 model with psychic powers.

Zhadsnark: Points drop and remove the restrictions on him, also his ability to make bikers troops shouldn’t be his warlord trait and should just be his ability. He should also have a 4+ just like every other biker in the Ork army, as well as having either TL Dakka Gunz or maybe upgrade him to something worth a bit more then a fething Big shoota. I honestly have no idea how to address the whole tank shock thing, I really never use it and I can’t think of how that would even work in the game.

ELITE FIXES:

Nobz: -5pt. Give access to cheaper PKs and other weapons and gear. Reduce cost of bikes to 20ppm instead of 27. And poof you have a good Nob unit again.

MA Nobz: Remove slow and purposeful from the model, this doesn’t help them in any way and is actually a huge nerf for them. Also they need about -10ppm to justify there presence on the board. Finally, I would suggest making them T5. These guys are basically a step below a warboss, they should at least be able to stay on the table for a bit.

Burna Boyz: -2ppm, comes standard with Eavy Armor, Finally they need to have an upgrade option to take a Skorcha instead of the Burna, make this a 2ppm upgrade, but it has to be the entire unit. And finally, they entire unit can choose to forgo shooting and fire all their weapons together to make a torrent flamer at S7 AP3 but only if they upgraded to Skorchas.

Kommandos: Give them Shrouded instead of Stealth as well as a special rule that lets them assault from infiltrate. Reduce upgrade costs to 5pts for a burna. Boom, suddenly they are useful.
Tankbustas: Give them Eavy armor standard, keep the price the same. Increase range of Rokkitz to 36.

Grot Tanks: First, give them vehicle rules instead of vehicle rules -10. In other words these little guys should be fast vehicles. Next, I would increase the range of Grotzookas to 30 possibly even 36inches to make them usable. Finally I would reduce the price of Grotzookaz to 5pts and the cost of Kommanda to 10pts with the upgrade weapon free. So for the unit of 3, maxed out with 4 grotzookas you would be paying 130 instead of 160.

TROOPS FIXES:
Boyz: Give them a 6+ FNP stock instead of 6+ Armor. Their FNP will stack with a painboy so they could theoretically have a 4+ FNP. And old Mob rule. Finally, increase to S4 and you have now made them a bit more survivable and a bit harder hitting. Also, upgrading to shoota boyz is free, because who wants to pay for an assault 2 S4 weapon….really?


Gretchin: OPTIONS, holy Christ GW, your fluff writers have given you SO MUCH TO DO WITH THIS UNIT! DO IT! Grot snipers, Grot gunners, grot heavy weapons. Just do something with them! I would give them a S4 Sniper rifle for 1PPM and overnight GW would sell out of these things.

FAST ATTACK FIXES:

Warbikers: Dakka gunz increased to Range 24 and S6. Boyz become S4 and those HoW attacks suddenly become less garbage. -2ppm

ALL ORK PLANES/FLYERS: I will have to break this down because of different upgrades.

DakkaJet: TWICE THE DAKKA. For 110pts this thing should come with 4 TL Supa Shootas not 2. If you had 16 S6 shots you would see this thing taken a bit more often. Keep in mind that would still mean you can upgrade it with more gunz, I would say you 2 more for 20pts, so for 130pts your firing 24 S6 shots. And the Waaagh rule for it would make it slightly better to, +4-6 shots. I would also give its front facing AV11 because realistically this thing dies so bloody often its ridiculous. (if you think this is to much dakka, keep in mind that a Scat bike has 4 S6 shots for 26ppm so it can literally match this dakka and be a lot more durable. )

Burna Bomba: All weapons gain +1 strength and the model drops in price 20 pts.

BlitzaBomba: All weapons gain +1 strength and the model drops 30pts.

Storm Boyz: Increase price by 1ppm, give them all Eavy armor. Done. *SIDE NOTE: Fluffy rule addition. “GET DA FLYBOY!” If an enemy flyer comes within 12inches of a Storm Boy unit roll a D6, you immediately take that many S8 hits. The enemy flyer takes the same number of hits.* In other words these guys shoot into the sky to intercept the flyer, get run over and probably die, but in the process they severely damage the flyer, possibly killing it.

Deff Kopta: Very little difference between a deff kopta and a regular Warbiker exept a bit of extra movement, so why it costs 12ppm more I do not understand. So with that in mind -10ppm. Option to upgrade one to a Nob. Nob may take choices from CCW as usual. Deff Koptas also have the option to take an extra TL Rokkit for 5ppm. (Makes a lot more fething sense, seeing as the model is sculpted with 4 rokkitz not 2). So in one fell swoop you have helped fix the leadership issues and given them more dakka as well as reducing prices. DONE.

Warbuggies: Stays the same price, add another gunner/weapon next to the driver (Trukk Style). As well as a hull mounted Big Shoota that can be exchanged for a Rokkit for free or a Skorcha for 5ppm. That will make them slightly more usable.

Trukkz: reduce explosions to S3. Give them Ramshackle = 5++. Done.

HEAVY SUPPORT FIXES:

Flash Gitz: -4ppm, exchange Boss Poles for Eavy Armor. Git findaz work while moving. Change Snazz Gunz to be Assault 4 and range 30.

Lootas: Move these back to Elite where they belong. Increase shots to D2+2 (3 or 4 shots a turn) Give them the option of purchasing a Git finda for 2ppm. And Eavy Armor for 2ppm. The Mek upgrade is good, but change it so the Mek can keep his Deff Gun.

Mek Gunz: Increase # of useful guns. Increase range of current guns by 12. Add in some weapon that ignores cover and has a mid strength high rate of fire (S6 AP5 5 shots ignores cover) Drop the price by 6 on weapon upgrades.

Killa Kanz: Change them back to last edition where they were 35pts a model, Grotzooka is a 5pt upgrade and range 24-30. Increase movement to 12.

Deff Dreads: Drop price by 15ppm, allow them to run in a squadron. Reduce upgrade cost of additional CCWs.

Mork/Gork: Drop the price by 20ppm. Double the dakka, movement and transport capacity and make them an assault walker.

Battle Wagon: Drop price by 20. And equip it with 4 Big shootas/Rokkitz Standard. Kill Kannon increase to S8 and Range 36 and goes down in price by 10.



LORD OF WAR FIXES:

Stompa: Give it a 5++ and 6 Void shields. OR Drop its price by 270pts. Regardless of which option, fix the stupid gun on it so that it doesn’t jam every game.

Ghaz: reduce price by 30pts. Gains FEAR, Swings at initiative. ALWAYS has a 4++ on his Waaagh it becomes a 2++. When he is in play ALL ork units are fearless. His squad gains Crusader and Zealot.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
i'll add the "How to play" after a bit enjoy

Aren't PK's basically Power Fists? So why are they cheaper than a power fist?

Not a fan of Ghaz having at Initiative power fists but that might be because my LoW character sucks.

 warhead01 wrote:
Where are you going with this?

He's the Ork version of Martel

He's the Ork version of Martel

I'm note really up on the who's who here on Dakka.
So I guess that was in good fun?

Not really digging these "changes" I just got COR and am going to print that and play that.

Some of these proposed changes are a little under costed.
Dropping burna boys by two points and giving them 4 points of armour is -6 points to the cost. Maybe it'll grow on me but not yet. Just an example. But if we're getting those kinds of deal boys should be free. (Haha)

Shouldn't this be in Proposed Rules?

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK's basically Power Fists? So why are they cheaper than a power fist?

Not a fan of Ghaz having at Initiative power fists but that might be because my LoW character sucks.

225pts for a LoW that is only good on the turn you call Waaagh, has 1 more attack then a normal Warboss at 1 higher WS and has 1 more wound. He has no Invul save and has a 6+ FNP unless he gets hit with a S10 weapon, in which case he just takes the wound. Ohh and guess what? He isn't fearless, so he can be swept. Hes just an over priced Warboss that has Prophet of the Waaagh as his warlord trait. GW nerfed him in 7th :(

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK's basically Power Fists? So why are they cheaper than a power fist?

Not a fan of Ghaz having at Initiative power fists but that might be because my LoW character sucks.

225pts for a LoW that is only good on the turn you call Waaagh, has 1 more attack then a normal Warboss at 1 higher WS and has 1 more wound. He has no Invul save and has a 6+ FNP unless he gets hit with a S10 weapon, in which case he just takes the wound. Ohh and guess what? He isn't fearless, so he can be swept. Hes just an over priced Warboss that has Prophet of the Waaagh as his warlord trait. GW nerfed him in 7th :(

I meant that taking into account the changes you added. So he'd have 4++ and Fearless.

I find the Big Mek with the Finkin Kap is a cheap Force Multiplier.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I find the Big Mek with the Finkin Kap is a cheap Force Multiplier.

He is I am writing up that part of the post next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK's basically Power Fists? So why are they cheaper than a power fist?

Not a fan of Ghaz having at Initiative power fists but that might be because my LoW character sucks.

225pts for a LoW that is only good on the turn you call Waaagh, has 1 more attack then a normal Warboss at 1 higher WS and has 1 more wound. He has no Invul save and has a 6+ FNP unless he gets hit with a S10 weapon, in which case he just takes the wound. Ohh and guess what? He isn't fearless, so he can be swept. Hes just an over priced Warboss that has Prophet of the Waaagh as his warlord trait. GW nerfed him in 7th :(

I meant that taking into account the changes you added. So he'd have 4++ and Fearless.

I think 195pts is a good price to pay for fearless, 4++ and at initiative PK.

Ummm... Well. I don't know. He's making all the Orks fearless army wide by being in play right. Isn't that better that his power klaw attacks?
Him making them fearless is the only reason I'd use him.
So even at a higher cost he's already better. No council tax.

Seems overly cheap to me.

SemperMortis wrote:
HQ: FIXES

GENERAL HQ FIXES: Every Ork HQ should start with Eavy Armor, these guys are supposed to be the leaders of this faction, no excuse not to wear better armor then a T-shirt.

Upgrades and equipment receives a 20-25% points decrease, a PK should be 20pts at most.

+1 Leadership across the board, every one of these guys needs higher leadership.

Some kind of Invul save for characters. 5-10pts for a 5+ maybe 15pts for a 4+. We need this more than almost any other faction.

Big Mek: For starters the Big Mek needs to be better than just a Nob, He is a Warboss who likes to work on his trukk on the weekends . So with that in mind I think S5 and T5 is warranted, he can still have 2 wounds instead of 3 and WS4 instead of 5 to distinguish between himself and a regular Warboss. Secondly, the SAG needs to be updated so it isn’t such hot garbage, as well as the other upgrades for the Big Mek. Tellyporta blasta is a cool option, but it isn’t used because it’s so short ranged, you have almost as much chance to kill yourself as the enemy YAY BS2. Finally I would revert the KFF to its old rules.

Zagstruk: Points decrease for this guy is a must, I also think a PK at initiative instead of his Klaw feet is what is needed to make him playable. In fact I would give him 5-10point bump if he was given an At initiative PK. I also would let him take Stormboyz as troops.

Grukk: I have never been a fan of this guy, 130pts for a Warboss with FNP, a Kombi Rokkit (1/3 chance to hit someone with it) and comes standard with Eavy armor and a PK that has shred. (Shred btw lets you reroll failed to wound rolls, not very useful on a S10 AP2 weapon since its basically reroll 1s) I wouldn’t mind if they got rid of Grukk completely, they won’t because they made a model and everything, but to make him actually worth 130pts I think give him Zealot to go along with Shred and definitely a invul of some kind, 4++, I would also recommend changing the kombi weapon to a Skorcha for the obvious reason that its more reliable.

Kaptin Badrukk: First off, way too expensive, I would drop him by 20points, give him a Power Sword style weapon. Fix Git findaz to work when moving and allow him to take Flash Gitz as Troops.

Mad Dok Grotsnik: Give him a 5++, drop the points cost by 40, poof fixed.

Painboy: Drop the points cost by 15-20, give him access to CC Weapons and allow Orks to take 1-3 as a single HQ Choice.

Warboss: Biggest thing for a warboss is that he NEEDS an invul save. I would also love to give him a different relic besides DLS and occasionally Da Finkin Cap. The other relics are useless for the most part and that is just sad seeing as how many opportunities are being squandered. After that, just make upgrades cheaper.

Weirdboy: -10pts. Give access to other branches of psychic powers and completely fix Ork powers. Da Krunch would be so much better if it was more reliable. Also some kind of power that gives SPEED to orks rather then “Da Jump” is needed. Maybe something that gives a target unit +6 inches movement would be useful. Also we really need something beyond shooting attacks for a BS2 model with psychic powers.

Zhadsnark: Points drop and remove the restrictions on him, also his ability to make bikers troops shouldn’t be his warlord trait and should just be his ability. He should also have a 4+ just like every other biker in the Ork army, as well as having either TL Dakka Gunz or maybe upgrade him to something worth a bit more then a fething Big shoota. I honestly have no idea how to address the whole tank shock thing, I really never use it and I can’t think of how that would even work in the game.

ELITE FIXES:

Nobz: -5pt. Give access to cheaper PKs and other weapons and gear. Reduce cost of bikes to 20ppm instead of 27. And poof you have a good Nob unit again.

MA Nobz: Remove slow and purposeful from the model, this doesn’t help them in any way and is actually a huge nerf for them. Also they need about -10ppm to justify there presence on the board. Finally, I would suggest making them T5. These guys are basically a step below a warboss, they should at least be able to stay on the table for a bit.

Burna Boyz: -2ppm, comes standard with Eavy Armor, Finally they need to have an upgrade option to take a Skorcha instead of the Burna, make this a 2ppm upgrade, but it has to be the entire unit. And finally, they entire unit can choose to forgo shooting and fire all their weapons together to make a torrent flamer at S7 AP3 but only if they upgraded to Skorchas.

Kommandos: Give them Shrouded instead of Stealth as well as a special rule that lets them assault from infiltrate. Reduce upgrade costs to 5pts for a burna. Boom, suddenly they are useful.
Tankbustas: Give them Eavy armor standard, keep the price the same. Increase range of Rokkitz to 36.

Grot Tanks: First, give them vehicle rules instead of vehicle rules -10. In other words these little guys should be fast vehicles. Next, I would increase the range of Grotzookas to 30 possibly even 36inches to make them usable. Finally I would reduce the price of Grotzookaz to 5pts and the cost of Kommanda to 10pts with the upgrade weapon free. So for the unit of 3, maxed out with 4 grotzookas you would be paying 130 instead of 160.

TROOPS FIXES:
Boyz: Give them a 6+ FNP stock instead of 6+ Armor. Their FNP will stack with a painboy so they could theoretically have a 4+ FNP. And old Mob rule. Finally, increase to S4 and you have now made them a bit more survivable and a bit harder hitting. Also, upgrading to shoota boyz is free, because who wants to pay for an assault 2 S4 weapon….really?


Gretchin: OPTIONS, holy Christ GW, your fluff writers have given you SO MUCH TO DO WITH THIS UNIT! DO IT! Grot snipers, Grot gunners, grot heavy weapons. Just do something with them! I would give them a S4 Sniper rifle for 1PPM and overnight GW would sell out of these things.

FAST ATTACK FIXES:

Warbikers: Dakka gunz increased to Range 24 and S6. Boyz become S4 and those HoW attacks suddenly become less garbage. -2ppm

ALL ORK PLANES/FLYERS: I will have to break this down because of different upgrades.

DakkaJet: TWICE THE DAKKA. For 110pts this thing should come with 4 TL Supa Shootas not 2. If you had 16 S6 shots you would see this thing taken a bit more often. Keep in mind that would still mean you can upgrade it with more gunz, I would say you 2 more for 20pts, so for 130pts your firing 24 S6 shots. And the Waaagh rule for it would make it slightly better to, +4-6 shots. I would also give its front facing AV11 because realistically this thing dies so bloody often its ridiculous. (if you think this is to much dakka, keep in mind that a Scat bike has 4 S6 shots for 26ppm so it can literally match this dakka and be a lot more durable. )

Burna Bomba: All weapons gain +1 strength and the model drops in price 20 pts.

BlitzaBomba: All weapons gain +1 strength and the model drops 30pts.

Storm Boyz: Increase price by 1ppm, give them all Eavy armor. Done. *SIDE NOTE: Fluffy rule addition. “GET DA FLYBOY!” If an enemy flyer comes within 12inches of a Storm Boy unit roll a D6, you immediately take that many S8 hits. The enemy flyer takes the same number of hits.* In other words these guys shoot into the sky to intercept the flyer, get run over and probably die, but in the process they severely damage the flyer, possibly killing it.

Deff Kopta: Very little difference between a deff kopta and a regular Warbiker exept a bit of extra movement, so why it costs 12ppm more I do not understand. So with that in mind -10ppm. Option to upgrade one to a Nob. Nob may take choices from CCW as usual. Deff Koptas also have the option to take an extra TL Rokkit for 5ppm. (Makes a lot more fething sense, seeing as the model is sculpted with 4 rokkitz not 2). So in one fell swoop you have helped fix the leadership issues and given them more dakka as well as reducing prices. DONE.

Warbuggies: Stays the same price, add another gunner/weapon next to the driver (Trukk Style). As well as a hull mounted Big Shoota that can be exchanged for a Rokkit for free or a Skorcha for 5ppm. That will make them slightly more usable.

Trukkz: reduce explosions to S3. Give them Ramshackle = 5++. Done.

HEAVY SUPPORT FIXES:

Flash Gitz: -4ppm, exchange Boss Poles for Eavy Armor. Git findaz work while moving. Change Snazz Gunz to be Assault 4 and range 30.

Lootas: Move these back to Elite where they belong. Increase shots to D2+2 (3 or 4 shots a turn) Give them the option of purchasing a Git finda for 2ppm. And Eavy Armor for 2ppm. The Mek upgrade is good, but change it so the Mek can keep his Deff Gun.

Mek Gunz: Increase # of useful guns. Increase range of current guns by 12. Add in some weapon that ignores cover and has a mid strength high rate of fire (S6 AP5 5 shots ignores cover) Drop the price by 6 on weapon upgrades.

Killa Kanz: Change them back to last edition where they were 35pts a model, Grotzooka is a 5pt upgrade and range 24-30. Increase movement to 12.

Deff Dreads: Drop price by 15ppm, allow them to run in a squadron. Reduce upgrade cost of additional CCWs.

Mork/Gork: Drop the price by 20ppm. Double the dakka, movement and transport capacity and make them an assault walker.

Battle Wagon: Drop price by 20. And equip it with 4 Big shootas/Rokkitz Standard. Kill Kannon increase to S8 and Range 36 and goes down in price by 10.



LORD OF WAR FIXES:

Stompa: Give it a 5++ and 6 Void shields. OR Drop its price by 270pts. Regardless of which option, fix the stupid gun on it so that it doesn’t jam every game.

Ghaz: reduce price by 30pts. Gains FEAR, Swings at initiative. ALWAYS has a 4++ on his Waaagh it becomes a 2++. When he is in play ALL ork units are fearless. His squad gains Crusader and Zealot.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
i'll add the "How to play" after a bit enjoy

While I do agree that the Ork Codex needs a serious boost (and I like a lot your suggestion to change the 6+ save to 6+ FNP as well as adding more variety to Gretchin units), I'm strongly against giving orks an wider access to invul save (save maybe for Ghaz or others special characters). Orks are supposed to be low tek, powerful and found in huge numbers, so they need certain drawbacks to compensate (and bad shooting and no invul. fits perfectly imo). In fact, I would even change KFF to give a random ++ vs shooting (throw a dice) but that on a 1, it explodes and hurts your troops instead.

The unit needing the most upgrades are the Nobz imo. With the new OP c.c. units such as the wulfen and lychguard, this already underwhelming unit has become straight up laughable (a power klaw for 25 points when a wulfen can take a thunder hammer and storm shield for 20 pts is plainly ****. Whoever approved this should simply be shot out of misery).

SemperMortis wrote:
Subject: The Ork codex at a glance

I am sorry sir you seem to have been the victim of a warp time accident. This is the year 2016. The ork codex is no longer the talk of the day. Feel free read up on the now old ork codex discussions.

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
In fact, I would even change KFF to give a random ++ vs shooting (throw a dice) but that on a 1, it explodes and hurts your troops instead.

You sure you don't work for GW?

But seriously, we need less options that kill ourselves. First of all, we die easily enough, and secondly, that's the tryanid's shtick. Let's not steal things from one of the few codices worse off than us.

Really, I agree with the general idea of all HQs getting 'eavy armor, but I think that should also extend to units like Tankbustas, who in fluff cover themselves in wrecked tank parts, and Flash Gitz, who are so rich it wouldn't make sense for them NOT to be wearing armor. Burnaz should also get a free FNP to make them more survivable, and to represent their frayed nerves from all the fire.

And, of course, the overall points decrease for upgrades. That, if anything, would solve so many issues in our codex.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
In fact, I would even change KFF to give a random ++ vs shooting (throw a dice) but that on a 1, it explodes and hurts your troops instead.

You sure you don't work for GW?

But seriously, we need less options that kill ourselves. First of all, we die easily enough, and secondly, that's the tryanid's shtick. Let's not steal things from one of the few codices worse off than us.

Really, I agree with the general idea of all HQs getting 'eavy armor, but I think that should also extend to units like Tankbustas, who in fluff cover themselves in wrecked tank parts, and Flash Gitz, who are so rich it wouldn't make sense for them NOT to be wearing armor. Burnaz should also get a free FNP to make them more survivable, and to represent their frayed nerves from all the fire.

And, of course, the overall points decrease for upgrades. That, if anything, would solve so many issues in our codex.

I think it's a shame that they removed the gunz options for the Flash Gitz (morre dakka, rockkit and zappy). Not only would it give them more versatility on the field, it would also make them more fun (which unfortunately, is something that is severly lacking in the codex)

I don't get why people think Orks are low tech. I'll never understand why GW made Orks so self destructive either.
If the KFF might explode then it's one more reason to not use it.
I've more or less given them up for more Orks already.

 warhead01 wrote:
I don't get why people think Orks are low tech. I'll never understand why GW made Orks so self destructive either.
If the KFF might explode then it's one more reason to not use it.
I've more or less given them up for more Orks already.

Orks are one of the most primitive races in the galaxy that know how to use ranged weaponry and war machines. Most of their equipment is cobbled together from scrap; a Slugga or a Shoota is just a run down piece of garbage that is usually jammed with broken or rusted firing mechanisms - they only work in the hands of an Ork because of their Waaagh! energy. A Choppa isn't much better, it's just a piece of sharpened metal most of the time. The common theme through every Ork made weapon is improvisation.

Orks are self destructive for the purpose of showcasing how unreliable their technology is in typical hilarious fashion, either when it's a Kustom Mega Blasta exploding in the user's face or a Shokk Attack Gun firing the Mek wielding it instead of the Snotlings he shoved into the feeder. Orks are the comedy relief in the 40k universe, and a lot of their weapons reflect that, while also being insanely deadly when they work as intended.

Lighten up man, you shouldn't be getting into Orks without realising that you're playing for comedy as much as competition.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
you shouldn't be getting into Orks without realising that you're playing for comedy as much as competition.

That's a very shallow view of Orks. There's far more to them than surface-level comedy.

 Melissia wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
you shouldn't be getting into Orks without realising that you're playing for comedy as much as competition.

That's a very shallow view of Orks. There's far more to them than surface-level comedy.

To assume that their technology is anything better than improvised scrap is playing ignorant to their lore, and to take their ridiculous contraptions and their reason for existing seriously and negatively is missing one of the most important aspects of the Orks - their comic relief in an otherwise grimdark universe.

Orks are deliberately simplistic both in terms of the game and in their lore. There isn't anything particularly deep about Orks at all - they have no written history regarding their origins, no complex hierarchy and no inherent values within their society outside of basic Ork Kultur and the traditions of the Klans; they instead rely on their humorous perception of the galaxy and their blunt attitude to galactic conflict to be compelling to read about and play as.

But no, you won't find much about them past what you can already see on the surface, and that's what makes them such a glorious addition to the universe. Trying to make more of them than what's there is ignoring their best features, and trying to remove those simple and iconic ideals is a step further in the "taking them more seriously than they should be" department.

I don't understand the complaint of an ork who has been a painboy with a cybork body for decades having the rules of a painboy with a cybork body. I appreciate there is no synergy, but where is the problem?

SemperMortis wrote:

Boyz: Give them a 6+ FNP stock instead of 6+ Armor. Their FNP will stack with a painboy so they could theoretically have a 4+ FNP. And old Mob rule. Finally, increase to S4 and you have now made them a bit more survivable and a bit harder hitting. Also, upgrading to shoota boyz is free, because who wants to pay for an assault 2 S4 weapon….really?

Were the shootas free who would take sluggas? When they were free everybody took shootas if they had models...