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What do I want? Lots of things!

More open-topped transports. Non-Witchfire psychic powers in transports. Heavy Flamers in Salamanders tactical squads. Psychic powers and Warlord Traits balanced such that picking them instead of rolling wouldn't be OP. Safe and reliable Deep Strikes from sources other than Drop Pods or Terminators/teleport homers. A way to field my old Daemonhunters army without using four Codexes. An Eldar generic IC that can get into a stand-up fight with anyone else's generic ICs without turning into a smear on the pavement. Scatterbikes and Distortion weapons nerfed to the point that I don't get a constant stream of bile for liking the elves that got me into this game.

Shoot into melee. Losing to Tyranids because I have a single guardsman or wrack still engaged with a horde of bugs while my entire gunline wyches with their thumbs in their bums is the mess frustrating, nonsensical defeat imaginable.

Second place goes to seat belt deaths.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Shoot into melee. Losing to Tyranids because I have a single guardsman or wrack still engaged with a horde of bugs while my entire gunline wyches with their thumbs in their bums is the mess frustrating, nonsensical defeat imaginable.

Second place goes to seat belt deaths.

You could shoot into melee in 2nd.

Being able to shoot into melee would be nice. Who cares about hitting my own troops, if my grots are tarpitting some Ogryn I'm KMK-ing the area no matter what. After all, they're grots! Getting gibbed by friendly fire is basically their purpose!

Not only could you shoot into combat in 2nd ed, but any un-engaged members of the squad in combat could shoot, or move away.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
An Eldar generic IC that can get into a stand-up fight with anyone else's generic ICs without turning into a smear on the pavement. Scatterbikes and Distortion weapons nerfed to the point that I don't get a constant stream of bile for liking the elves that got me into this game.

Yes and yes!

Wait... space elves are supposed to be pretty decent in melee? Nah, cannot have that.

The number of times I go to one of FLGS's and all the people there make the most pissed off "I would rather not play" face whenever I mention that my army is Eldar is just... not fun. Yeah, sorry I got into space elves because I like their models and wanted to paint more than just one color scheme. No idea I was picking the most hated/bitched about army. I am working on Harlequins and DE-leaning Corsairs, but I can only put together entirely new armies so quickly.

Also, yes more assault vehicles! DE and Marines having pretty much all of the viable ones is a little silly IMO. Spread the love.

Also, more sensible armor facing rules. Yeah, it's easy on IoM vehicles, but exactly where are the 4 corners of a falcon or starweaver?

Also, I wish I could buy models at a reasonable price, lol.

I'd like something like the heroic actions from lotr in 40K. Would make for more interesting tactics and would make characters more interesting than 100shades of how to kill dudes even faster.

Overwatch from vehicles. Pretty please.

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
An Eldar generic IC that can get into a stand-up fight with anyone else's generic ICs without turning into a smear on the pavement. Scatterbikes and Distortion weapons nerfed to the point that I don't get a constant stream of bile for liking the elves that got me into this game.

Yes and yes!

Wait... space elves are supposed to be pretty decent in melee? Nah, cannot have that.

The number of times I go to one of FLGS's and all the people there make the most pissed off "I would rather not play" face whenever I mention that my army is Eldar is just... not fun. Yeah, sorry I got into space elves because I like their models and wanted to paint more than just one color scheme. No idea I was picking the most hated/bitched about army. I am working on Harlequins and DE-leaning Corsairs, but I can only put together entirely new armies so quickly.

Also, yes more assault vehicles! DE and Marines having pretty much all of the viable ones is a little silly IMO. Spread the love.

Also, more sensible armor facing rules. Yeah, it's easy on IoM vehicles, but exactly where are the 4 corners of a falcon or starweaver?

Also, I wish I could buy models at a reasonable price, lol.

It isn't personal, playing a game your likely to get tabled very quickly isn't fun. Most people know it's the rules imbalance, not the opponents fault

the_scotsman wrote:
Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?

Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?

IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.

"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I LOVE IT!!!! SPOT ON!

And throw in consolidation charge aswell!

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
An Eldar generic IC that can get into a stand-up fight with anyone else's generic ICs without turning into a smear on the pavement. Scatterbikes and Distortion weapons nerfed to the point that I don't get a constant stream of bile for liking the elves that got me into this game.

Yes and yes!

Wait... space elves are supposed to be pretty decent in melee? Nah, cannot have that.

The number of times I go to one of FLGS's and all the people there make the most pissed off "I would rather not play" face whenever I mention that my army is Eldar is just... not fun. Yeah, sorry I got into space elves because I like their models and wanted to paint more than just one color scheme. No idea I was picking the most hated/bitched about army. I am working on Harlequins and DE-leaning Corsairs, but I can only put together entirely new armies so quickly.

Also, yes more assault vehicles! DE and Marines having pretty much all of the viable ones is a little silly IMO. Spread the love.

Also, more sensible armor facing rules. Yeah, it's easy on IoM vehicles, but exactly where are the 4 corners of a falcon or starweaver?

Also, I wish I could buy models at a reasonable price, lol.

Death Masque helped a lot on Harlequins. I've come out of it with almost 2,500pts of Harlies at about 50% MSRP.

 Huron black heart wrote:

It isn't personal, playing a game your likely to get tabled very quickly isn't fun. Most people know it's the rules imbalance, not the opponents fault

When the pissy face is followed by the face of "wait, your army has all of 3 bikes... no wraithknights... no warp spiders... no wave serpents... the feth kind of Eldar player are you?"...

Yeah, they definately blame the rules imbalance

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Death Masque helped a lot on Harlequins. I've come out of it with almost 2,500pts of Harlies at about 50% MSRP.

This is true. I'm almost to finishing off my allied force now. Too bad I bought most of my harlies on release day

Oh, other thing I want: Plastic Aspect Warriors! And Exarch kits (or any multi-option kits) that have all the weapon options! I hate GW's resin and how immobile the current casts look. And an Autarch kit that I can use to make one with the options I want, not just what GW currently thinks looks cool (where is my damn banshee mask head?).

Also, consistent rules! Why does wargear on one model do something that it does not for a different model?

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Death Masque helped a lot on Harlequins. I've come out of it with almost 2,500pts of Harlies at about 50% MSRP.

This is true. I'm almost to finishing off my allied force now. Too bad I bought most of my harlies on release day

Oh, other thing I want: Plastic Aspect Warriors! And Exarch kits (or any multi-option kits) that have all the weapon options! I hate GW's resin and how immobile the current casts look. And an Autarch kit that I can use to make one with the options I want, not just what GW currently thinks looks cool (where is my damn banshee mask head?).

Also, consistent rules! Why does wargear on one model do something that it does not for a different model?

I second the plastic Aspects, and add new Guardians. When my choice is 'be a *bleep* and bring jetbikes' or 'use Troops models that were old and terrible when I started playing the game ten years ago' it feels like a bit of a trap.

Also an HQ for the Harlequins Codex. And the ability to put an IC on the back of a Skyweaver. For that matter, while I'm asking about loadout options, why did the DE lose jetbikes for the HQs? Bring that back!

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I second the plastic Aspects, and add new Guardians. When my choice is 'be a *bleep* and bring jetbikes' or 'use Troops models that were old and terrible when I started playing the game ten years ago' it feels like a bit of a trap.

Also an HQ for the Harlequins Codex. And the ability to put an IC on the back of a Skyweaver. For that matter, while I'm asking about loadout options, why did the DE lose jetbikes for the HQs? Bring that back!

I agree! I still have the models, but for the giant infantry blob that they are, they are freaking useless. People sneeze at them and they evaporate.

Oh, I second the HQ soooo much. They need it really badly; it would bring back the original option of having a small, elite allied team. I do not care if it's even an FW model. Just one. Or at least give us the option, for feth's sake. I will gladly kit bash the living hell out of it.

Wait, the new codex took away jetbikes for DE HQ? But... why? That makes no sense. It's not like GW cares about not having models for something. Maybe they don't want to encourage kitbashing until they can come out with the new models in 8th?

I'm kind of waiting for other people to get on and start shouting about how we should not bitch because Eldar are super OP now... lol

Have charge either fixed, nearly fixed, or calculable distance rather than a random one. The distance a unit can charge massively affects the performance of the unit and it just doesn't make sense that on T1 the unit gets a little charge, and in T3 the unit gets to charge way further.

I would be ok with some attrition based charge; for instance, if a unit is at up to 3/4 strength, they get full charge, at 1/2 strength they get a reduced charge, and 1/4 strength they get a greatly reduced charge. But c'mon, a unit should have a pretty good idea of roughly how far they can run in a given amount of time before they start running.

the_scotsman wrote:
Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?

Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?

IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.

"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?

-Reserve rolls can be adjusted, improved, and even ignored by some formations and rules, and already start on a 3+ on second turn.
-Deep strike scatter/mishap is mitigated by drop pods and/or any rules that let you reroll it.
-Overwatch is only BS1 for most armies and can be mitigated with multiple units charging.
-Charge into terrain mechanics and random charge distances can again be mitigated by drop pods since you can choose a point closer to the enemies models and not have to worry about mishap.
-Bubblewrapping costs points for sacrificial models that may just get killed off before your deepstriking troops even arrive. That's a tax for the other player.


Don't look at it as your guys standing there and getting shot for a round. Look at it as your guys coming crashing down and drawing the attention of everyone around them with the noise and/or flash they made. Would my guardsman just stand there while you charged them? No, they'd have their guns up and ready to fire before the drop pod doors even came open. You could argue overwatch is suppose to represent this, but I think shooting at BS1 doesn't quite fit what is essentially shooting at a bunch of lumped up enemies either coming out of a drop pod or teleporting in.

Shooting into meelee is another thing I seriously think players should be able to do to balance things. I do oddly enough agree that models should get to charge the turn they come in under most circumstanced, but there needs to be a counterbalance like shooting into melee.

Also, you should end your post with "I don't think the shooting players have a valid point" instead of "oh shut up shooting army players". As soon as you start telling people to shut-up, civility and reason tend to end.

-Overwatching from vehicles; my Leman Russ has close-defence weapons for a reason. how come I cannot use them for their intention?

-Attacking facing armour on vehicles; if you charge my frontal armour how come you hit the thin rear armour that is 20+ feet away from you on the other side of the tank?

-Hitting tanks in combat; so, my tank is scooting along at high speeds but you can still hit its weak points precisely....

-An option to disengage from combat if I cannot hurt the target; yes, my men will stand and fight the Dreadnought, despite lacking krak grenades

-Heavier weapons deal multiple wounds if they dont instakill; so your chapter master with his shield eternal can just shrug off hits from dedicated AT weapons and cannons designed to level buildings....

-Infantry are actually relevant; Well, there go my insignificant useless units.... What where they again?

 master of ordinance wrote:
-Overwatching from vehicles; my Leman Russ has close-defence weapons for a reason. how come I cannot use them for their intention?

-Attacking facing armour on vehicles; if you charge my frontal armour how come you hit the thin rear armour that is 20+ feet away from you on the other side of the tank?

-Hitting tanks in combat; so, my tank is scooting along at high speeds but you can still hit its weak points precisely....

-An option to disengage from combat if I cannot hurt the target; yes, my men will stand and fight the Dreadnought, despite lacking krak grenades

-Heavier weapons deal multiple wounds if they dont instakill; so your chapter master with his shield eternal can just shrug off hits from dedicated AT weapons and cannons designed to level buildings....

-Infantry are actually relevant; Well, there go my insignificant useless units.... What where they again?

I'm in agreement that vehicles should be able to overwatch, at least with certain weapons.

Melee attackers hitting rear armor is supposed to represent them hitting the weak points of the vehicle to wreck it, but I feel like it's way too easy especially if my vehicle moved at combat or cruising speed that round. IMO, if a vehicle moved at least 6 inches in it's turn, models should have to hit the armor facing they're touching in melee. This will make non-heavy/non-fast vehicles be forced to sacrifice some firepower to ensure the enemy doesn't hit their rear armor guaranteed. This will also give heavy vehicles a durability boost they desperately need.

As for options to disengage from melee when facing something your unit can't hurt, that rule already exists. Read the "our weapons are useless" rule in the assault phase section of the BRB.

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I second the plastic Aspects, and add new Guardians. When my choice is 'be a *bleep* and bring jetbikes' or 'use Troops models that were old and terrible when I started playing the game ten years ago' it feels like a bit of a trap.

Also an HQ for the Harlequins Codex. And the ability to put an IC on the back of a Skyweaver. For that matter, while I'm asking about loadout options, why did the DE lose jetbikes for the HQs? Bring that back!

I agree! I still have the models, but for the giant infantry blob that they are, they are freaking useless. People sneeze at them and they evaporate.

Oh, I second the HQ soooo much. They need it really badly; it would bring back the original option of having a small, elite allied team. I do not care if it's even an FW model. Just one. Or at least give us the option, for feth's sake. I will gladly kit bash the living hell out of it.

Wait, the new codex took away jetbikes for DE HQ? But... why? That makes no sense. It's not like GW cares about not having models for something. Maybe they don't want to encourage kitbashing until they can come out with the new models in 8th?

I'm kind of waiting for other people to get on and start shouting about how we should not bitch because Eldar are super OP now... lol

Given the amount of 'Please, make us less OP and give us nice models that aren't scatterbikes' I'd hope they'd be sensible about it?

And the new DE book was a strip-off-options maintenance release, sort of like how the GK lost everything interesting around the same time. I hope it's a placeholder for a proper Codex coming eventually but as is it's pretty awful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
...I'm in agreement that vehicles should be able to overwatch, at least with certain weapons...

Take a leaf out of 4e/5e's 'defensive weapons' classification and allow vehicles to Overwatch with S4- (or S5-) weapons, maybe?

 AnomanderRake wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
...I'm in agreement that vehicles should be able to overwatch, at least with certain weapons...

Take a leaf out of 4e/5e's 'defensive weapons' classification and allow vehicles to Overwatch with S4- (or S5-) weapons, maybe?

I'm wary of basing it off of the str of the weapons as it then makes the heavier sponson options less worth it. Why would a multi-melta side sponson on a Leman Russ have a harder time aiming at a person than a HB other than number of shots, especially if it's a monstrous creature charging? I would base it more on the mounting that the weapon is on, such as "all sponson mounted and pintle mounted weapons can fire overwatch". That, or they can simply state/signify which weapons can fire overwatch in a vehicle's profile since vehicles vary so much. Maybe next to the list of weapons in a vehicles datasheet they can put a "(O)" next to the weapon to signify that weapon can overwatch?

I definitely agree with those who mentioned shooting into CC. A favorite tactic of mine in 2nd Ed was to swamp an opponent with tons of Grots and then have the Boyz sit back and hose down the entire fracas with gun fire. Then, the boyz could charge whatever was left. It was fun, fluffy and actually led to some very interesting tactical situations.

 chrispy1991 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
...I'm in agreement that vehicles should be able to overwatch, at least with certain weapons...

Take a leaf out of 4e/5e's 'defensive weapons' classification and allow vehicles to Overwatch with S4- (or S5-) weapons, maybe?

I'm wary of basing it off of the str of the weapons as it then makes the heavier sponson options less worth it. Why would a multi-melta side sponson on a Leman Russ have a harder time aiming at a person than a HB other than number of shots, especially if it's a monstrous creature charging? I would base it more on the mounting that the weapon is on, such as "all sponson mounted and pintle mounted weapons can fire overwatch". That, or they can simply state/signify which weapons can fire overwatch in a vehicle's profile since vehicles vary so much. Maybe next to the list of weapons in a vehicles datasheet they can put a "(O)" next to the weapon to signify that weapon can overwatch?

Or they could make the 'pintle-mounted' descriptor actually mean something, since that's the real-life purpose of those weapons.

I've been running a Ravenguard Shadowstrike Kill Team. Turn 1 I can deepstrike and charge 30 marines, almost all with powerweapons, with 4 attacks each.

In the last 4 tournaments I've won 2nd place, Best Painted, and 3rd place,.mostly due to my soft scores.


I usually wipe out 2-3 enemy units, then the return fire wipes them out.

My wish list?

I find 3rd edition to be a lot more fun. Fewer rules, fewer special rules, and bring back assault from Rhinos.

I want assault from rhinos because it makes units like wolf guard on foot a lot worse, just because they can't get into combat reliably without buying a fething 250 point landraider.

I also want jetbikes for my DE HQs.

Get a well defined intuitive and elegant 40k rule set from GW, I can use rules as written to play a balanced enjoyable game of 40k with.

-Lasguns become worth a damn; So, I fire off 145 shots at your Tactical squad and kill 8 of them? Wonderful.

-Heavy limitations on supposed "rare" and "experimental" units; because you know that Riptide? Well, fluff wise it is a prototype unit, and that Stormsurge is so rare most Tau have never seen one because it has still not been adopted for service. So how come you have three of the former and two of the latter?

-The Punisher Gatling becomes AP4 and gains Rending; it is a larger, more aggressive Assault Cannon and yet it is far less effective.

-Guard vehicles can become BS4; well, we have veteran infantry right?

-Invisibility goes; No more triple vindicator Linebreaker that cannot be shot by anything.

D becomes massively more lethal, but also becomes a hell of a lot rarer; It should utterly annihilate anything it hits, but at the same time it should be extremely restricted.

I would like less things. There are too many rules and things to keep track of.

A Gladius-esque detachment (and relics) for IF that at least competes with the alternates from the other main Chapters. Or if that would be too good, feel free to make the other ones worse to even it up.

I'll put another vote into Vehicles being able to do multiple wounds to MCs. That would be nice

 master of ordinance wrote:
-The Punisher Gatling becomes AP4 and gains Rending; it is a larger, more aggressive Assault Cannon and yet it is far less effective.

Oh, if the hades autocannon, which is meant to be a daemonic assault cannon, could also get rending that would be splendid too!

- Charge out of transports (rhinos/chimeras in particular)
- Not assume my enemy has a invo save, fnp or re-rollabe save.
- Being able to ignore FnP easier. Like back when AP2 weapons/power weapons removed it.
- Charge from reserves