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Okay, I got that first one out of the way. But, in all seriousness, what sort of actions and things do you wish you could do in 40k, which would make logical sense, but which the rules do not support?
I'll provide a couple of examples:
Tank Riders - The Imperial Guard army in 40k has a lot in common with the Soviet-era Russian army, what with the commissars and such. But, a common tactic from the second world war has never been an option in 40k. That is, the practice of having infantry catch a ride on armor. This helps make infantry more mobile, and provides the tank with assault defense that can keep up with it. Oddly, there were even were some Valhallan tank rider miniatures back in the days of 3rd edition, but they were intended to be glued on and had no impact on how the tank played.
Opening hatches - Here's one every player of Khorne Berserkers would love. Back in 3rd edition, to fire a heavy weapon out of a Rhino you had to open the top doors, and doing so would temporarily make the vehicle open topped. This was meant to be a disadvantage, in exchange for the advantage of getting to fire a heavy weapon. But, it would be wonderful if assault troops had the option to open the hatch now. An open topped Rhino would more than make up for the damage penalty when hit by being able to deliver choppy units into assault. Heck, no need to even be able to shut the hatches - take a chain axe to the hinged and take them off permanently!
So how about you? What fluffy or at least logical rules would make your games come alive?
Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?
Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?
IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.
"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Hrm, there have been options for assaulting out of deep strike before. If you ever played Planetstrike you'd see why it remains a non-option in normal games. It effectively becomes an autowin button against certain armies where about the only skill required is judging DS placement, and with drop pods even that goes out the window and becomes quite literally a point-click-win affair. Whatever other issues exist with the game, there's a reason that assaulting out if Deep Strike has never made it into the core rules.
That said, you *should* be able to charge from.a walk-on reserve arrival or out of stationary transports.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I wish hull mounted rapid fire weapons like heavy bolters could peform overwatch fire. Their entire purpose is deter assaulting infantry.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
I wish tank crews could defend their tank during an assault. IRL they wouldn't just sit there whilst some guy with a giant can opener pulled apart their ride. They'd open the hatches and throw grenades out, fire pistols at them or hit them with things.
“Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
– Eighth Captain, Khârn
Vaktathi wrote: Hrm, there have been options for assaulting out of deep strike before. If you ever played Planetstrike you'd see why it remains a non-option in normal games. It effectively becomes an autowin button against certain armies where about the only skill required is judging DS placement, and with drop pods even that goes out the window and becomes quite literally a point-click-win affair. Whatever other issues exist with the game, there's a reason that assaulting out if Deep Strike has never made it into the core rules.
That said, you *should* be able to charge from.a walk-on reserve arrival or out of stationary transports.
The situations where you would have an autowin button should be disallowed by an exception, not the rule.
Make Drop Pods specifically not allow assault out of them, and add a "teleporter sickness" rule or somesuch so Terminators/Daemons can't charge.
If you're paying the crazy points costs they give jump pack infantry for their deep strike capability, you should get to make disorganized charges after DS. Across the board, JP infantry is terrible in the current game, and that's the reason why.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
D4V1D0 wrote: Being able to leave an assault you can't win.
I.e your squad of warriors just sit there turn after turn because they cannot physically damage the dreadnaught that has charged them.
I realise this would remove an element of strategy, but being able to split a squad and allow half to leave combat would make life more interesting!
Look up "our weapons are useless" in the brb maybe?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/06 15:13:51
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Vaktathi wrote: Hrm, there have been options for assaulting out of deep strike before. If you ever played Planetstrike you'd see why it remains a non-option in normal games. It effectively becomes an autowin button against certain armies where about the only skill required is judging DS placement, and with drop pods even that goes out the window and becomes quite literally a point-click-win affair. Whatever other issues exist with the game, there's a reason that assaulting out if Deep Strike has never made it into the core rules.
That said, you *should* be able to charge from.a walk-on reserve arrival or out of stationary transports.
Certain units should be able to assault out of deep strike like Assault Marines and Stomrboyz. Should be on a case by case basis so you don't end up with some OP deathstars appearing in a drop pod. Same for assault from outflanking for units like Kroot, Scouts, Kommandos, etc. Would be nice to boost softer CC units without making the already powerful even more stronger.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
Random charge distance... you only move that distance if you can end up in close contact with the enemy. Why? I'm sure someone will defend this, but it makes no sense to me. If you make the roll, you should be able to move that distance if you want.
I wish that Morale checks and Ld checks were the same thing. There are some rules or upgrades which only apply to one or the other. I'm looking at you, Ork bosspoles.
To be fair I get a lot of use out of that rule over the years, so I'm used to it. I remember people bitched about the rule as it used to mean that a IC w/ krak Nades would get their entire unit stuck with them in assault.
People bitch about it now because it means krak grenades can only be used one at a time, but they can't use the rule anymore against AV12 walkers. It's funny hearing people complain about dreadnoughts once in a blue moon.
time travel back in time when I first got addicted to wh40k. Tell myself to stop being a fanboy and buy better stuff.
Fair enough, sometimes I think I could have saved a whole lot of money not getting into Warhammer in the first place.
Although, considering when I got into the game, I don't know that buying better stuff would have been an option.
Like:
Spoiler:
"Quick, young me, don't buy Warhammer 40k 3rd edition, get into one of the better games in this gaming store!"
"Oh, so I should stick to just buying the new Battletech stuff?"
"Well, no, you already have all of the good stuff for that game. The next decade just introduces a lot of junk we don't like, so you can skip that."
"Well, I do like FASA, so I guess I'll go with Vor: The Maelstrom, it looks just as good as 40k."
"Yeah... it, uh... It isn't. the Growlers are kinda cool. But, no, don't get that, it goes out of production and no one plays it."
"Okay, I guess I'll go with Warzone 2nd edition. The plastics in the new box set are incredible, you get 80 miniatures!"
"Oh, I know, every few years I find another ten or twenty of those guys you didn't paint and sell them for parking change on Ebay. Trust me, you never convince anyone to play it, you can skip that one."
"Well, this Void thing looks pretty neat..."
"No, again, no one ever plays it."
"Shockforce?"
"Jeezum, no. That game has redneck goblins and female marines that are just space marines with big metal boobs, you're better than that."
"Redneck goblins could be cool..."
"They are, but they call them Gremlins in a game called Malifaux, and this store won't be stocking it for sixteen years, so keep looking."
"Uh, there's something called "Steve Jackson's Ogre" in the discount bin. It's $2 and looks like it's a just a photocopy of something on card stock that I have to cut out myself."
"Never mind that, I just remembered something from the future - go to that stack of "Warhammer Quest" boxes there, and buy every last one of them. Now remember, they're not for you. You have to keep those safe and dry in the basement, then sell those in 2015 on Ebay. Then, use that money as a sizable down payment on a house!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/06 19:41:46
the_scotsman wrote: Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?
Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?
IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.
"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?
Pretty much this, i love deep striking my deathwing knights, who are a 235 point terminator squad rocking maces that are S6 and my sgt who gets 4 attacks on a charge wounding on a 2+ just comes into deep strike and sits there giving mean stares at the enemy until my next turn.
I would say that if you could assault with terminators after a deep strike, that would boot them so much and make them viable again.
I have to do this: almost all of your suggestions are in my alternative rule set - would any of you be interested in getting a private message, when I've finished the rules and started a thread about them?
Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose.
Disclaimer: I don't play 7th edition and only follow "modern" 40K via podcasts and forums like this. So if you can do this stuff, ignore it!
Most of what I missed from 40K when it went from 2nd to 3rd was:
-Hiding. This meant you could avoid being annihilated in the first turn most of the time.
-Vehicles with individual hit charts and actual random tables for where you strike etc. It removed the super dumbed down, "all or nothing" approach you get with simple armour facings. More complex? Sure, and that's better. This meant that a Land Raider was dangerous but you could try with weaker weapons to strike the tracks and at least immobilize it.
-Techmarines being able to actually fix vehicles and have a purpose.
-Crewmen being able to shoot from vehicles with firing ports etc.
-Vehicle wargear cards which allowed vehicles to defend themselves in close-combat.
-Close combat against vehicles being based on where the attacking model was, not just automatically using the rear armour etc.
-Armour save modifiers. I still vastly prefer this to the AP system (which is again, something put in place to speed up the game)
A lot of these rules were cut away when GW wanted to start putting more models on the table, and I understand that. Personally I don't like it/need it. I enjoyed the more complex narrative feel from 2nd (though I'd completely revise close combat and the psyker stuff).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/07 14:37:02
While I've never played beyond 6th edition, I do have one of two things:
- The challenge system in WHFB was kind of cool. I have no idea if the rules for it were ultimately balanced, but it made for some pretty awesome moments (ex. Clanrat somehow defeating a Bloodthirster). Having that in 40k and maybe polishing them up a bit to make them a bit more detailed might be nice.
- Maybe having a few specialized maneuvers for units would be cool as well. Multiple ways to move and shoot would of course be difficult to keep track of, but it might add a bit more strategy to the game.
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Chaospling wrote: I have to do this: almost all of your suggestions are in my alternative rule set - would any of you be interested in getting a private message, when I've finished the rules and started a thread about them?
the_scotsman wrote: Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?
Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?
IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.
"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?
I love this guy! My Eldar Swooping Hawks are desperate for Deep Striking charges! Pinpoint Deep Striking (multiple times during the game with EACH unit), to pop off 18 or more shots (extra Blind on the Exarch) before charging in the enemy makes me salivate! Shoot, take 3 units in the Aspect Formation and I won't be able to decide if want the extra BS or WS!
Implement these ideas now!
AlmightyWalrus wrote: This line of reasoning broke 7th edition in Fantasy. The books should be as equal as possible, even a theoretical "Codex: Squirrels with Crustacean allies" should have a fair chance to beat "Codex: God".
- Cost? FW models cost more? Because Thudd guns are more expensive than Wraithknights and Riptides. Nope, not a good argument. This is an expensive game. We play it knowing that, and also knowing that, realistically, it's cheaper than hookers and blow.
I just wish my Leman Russ Vanquishers/annihilators could one shot monstrous creatures like they can vehicles.
I don't necessary mean with every shot, but come on if I hit a canifex in the head with a round that can blow up a land raider why doesn't the carnifex die? This goes double for vehicles that pretend to be monstrous creatures like riptides, wraithknights, and dreadknights.
the_scotsman wrote: Charge out of reserve or deep strike. The single most ridiculous, immersion-shatteringly stupid thing in the entire game currently is your elite, awesome close combat unit shrieking down from the sky, slamming into the ground and then... I dunno, sitting there doing a superhero three-point entry for a full minute and a half while the enemy unloads on them?
Why can you drop down and precisely aim and fire a gun with no detriment, but you cant jump at a dude and slap him with a club?
IMO, the formation benefit that raptors got should be something that AT LEAST all jump pack infantry should get.
"But muh counterplay" oh shut up, shooting army players. You've got reserve rolls, deep strike scatter+mishap, random charge distance, overwatch (sometimes at heightened bs or even army wide), charge into terrain mechanics, and bubblewrapping. What more advantage do you possibly need to make shooting dominate assault?
This single-handedly makes BA garbage-time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NL_Cirrus wrote: I just wish my Leman Russ Vanquishers/annihilators could one shot monstrous creatures like they can vehicles.
I don't necessary mean with every shot, but come on if I hit a canifex in the head with a round that can blow up a land raider why doesn't the carnifex die? This goes double for vehicles that pretend to be monstrous creatures like riptides, wraithknights, and dreadknights.
Heavy anti-tank weapons need to cause multiple wounds, ie D3, to MCs and GMCs. The amount of lascannons MCs can suck down is insane.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/07 17:21:17
Alternate Phases. You move then I move, you psychic then I psychic, etc, etc. Just some inclusiveness would be nice rather than watching an opponent take their whole turn and Vice Versa.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/07 17:59:34
Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
7000+ Points Death Skullz
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
~1.5k
2000
1500
sense to me. If you make the roll, you should be able to move that distance if you want.
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD! 
Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts