Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Interestingly this case is an example both for and against guns. Had the attacker wielded a gun instead of a knife there would likely have been casualties, but had the officer not had a gun one of a variety of less desirable outcomes likely would have occurred.

Soooo... you might say a good case for gun control?

Keep the guns out of the hands of "just anyone" and ensure that guns are reserved for those whose job is to protect society?

Notice how no innocent bystanders were accidentally shot by Joe Heroman when he lost his cool and started spraying at the attacker?

Anyhow, condolences to the officer. It can't be easy to kill someone, regardless of the scenario.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Soooo... you might say a good case for gun control?

Keep the guns out of the hands of "just anyone" and ensure that guns are reserved for those whose job is to protect society?

Notice how no innocent bystanders were accidentally shot by Joe Heroman when he lost his cool and started spraying at the attacker?

Anyhow, condolences to the officer. It can't be easy to kill someone, regardless of the scenario.

When have you heard of a concealed carry private citizen, "spraying at the attacker"?

You are in the correct country for your mindset. We'll keep our guns, thanks.

At least it took till the second page.

Mitochondria wrote:
You are in the correct country for your mindset. We'll keep our guns, thanks.

Of course you'll get to keep higher kill rate by crimes per 1M people as well I know which one I prefer. Guns or safety.

No. Not on page 2. Leave the "guns are gud/baed for another thread entirely. Thanks

This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

With a subtle difference. DaIsh puts out propaganda actively encouraging followers to commit 'lone wolf' type acts. It is part of their strategy, and it works. Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

 CptJake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

With a subtle difference. DaIsh puts out propaganda actively encouraging followers to commit 'lone wolf' type acts. It is part of their strategy, and it works. Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

oh there not stupid

US did blow up a senior propganda officer recently though.

 CptJake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

With a subtle difference. DaIsh puts out propaganda actively encouraging followers to commit 'lone wolf' type acts. It is part of their strategy, and it works. Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

While not expressly supported by Christian organizations, there have been plenty of attacks on abortion clinics in the name of Jesus. Besides, Daish doesn''t speak for all Muslims. They're closer to the IRA in that they're a terrorist organization with a strong public following.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

 CptJake wrote:
Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

Why would a Christian organization, in the Western World, need to be subversive?

 dogma wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

Why would a Christian organization, in the Western World, need to be subversive?

Asides from how dumb this whole vein of discussion is...

Why wouldn't an organization need to be subversive, if it was actively calling for the death of people, within the Western world.

 djones520 wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

Why would a Christian organization, in the Western World, need to be subversive?

Asides from how dumb this whole vein of discussion is...

Why wouldn't an organization need to be subversive, if it was actively calling for the death of people, within the Western world.

Not sure how it's dumb, as it's directly comparing religious outliers committing violence against another religious group. Subversive is relative. The Westboro Baptist Church preaches hate almost to the point of calling for the death of people, and they're moderately tolerated.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

Why would a Christian organization, in the Western World, need to be subversive?

Asides from how dumb this whole vein of discussion is...

Why wouldn't an organization need to be subversive, if it was actively calling for the death of people, within the Western world.

Not sure how it's dumb, as it's directly comparing religious outliers committing violence against another religious group. Subversive is relative. The Westboro Baptist Church preaches hate almost to the point of calling for the death of people, and they're moderately tolerated.

because despite all. they never have engaged in a terror attack such as a bombing.

Your flag says GB, but you can't think of any Christian-religiously motivated bombings? Are you sure?

 jhe90 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

Why would a Christian organization, in the Western World, need to be subversive?

Asides from how dumb this whole vein of discussion is...

Why wouldn't an organization need to be subversive, if it was actively calling for the death of people, within the Western world.

Not sure how it's dumb, as it's directly comparing religious outliers committing violence against another religious group. Subversive is relative. The Westboro Baptist Church preaches hate almost to the point of calling for the death of people, and they're moderately tolerated.

because despite all. they never have engaged in a terror attack such as a bombing.

Do you mean the WBC? If so, I agree, but they toe the line. The amount of gak they start is close to inciting violence, even if they're explicitly marching down the streets shouting "Kill the gays" (which is close to their message)

 feeder wrote:
Your flag says GB, but you can't think of any Christian-religiously motivated bombings? Are you sure?

He is directly referring to the Westboro Baptist Church. Do you know something about them we don't?

 feeder wrote:
Your flag says GB, but you can't think of any Christian-religiously motivated bombings? Are you sure?

Ninja'd...rats!

But back OT, let's face it, every major religion out there has it's dark stuff in the closet that it would just as soon move on from. They're just as susceptible to periods of bad secular leadership and direction as any other organization, business, etc. Let's not let these extremist elements...key word, btw, in staying grounded for the whole discussion and maintaining perspective...i.e., ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, etc. or their radicalized lone wolves, pollute the entirety of the religion and it's members as a whole. We succumb to that, they win.

 CptJake wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Your flag says GB, but you can't think of any Christian-religiously motivated bombings? Are you sure?

He is directly referring to the Westboro Baptist Church. Do you know something about them we don't?

Ah, my bad. I was thinking religious movements in general.

 CptJake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

With a subtle difference. DaIsh puts out propaganda actively encouraging followers to commit 'lone wolf' type acts. It is part of their strategy, and it works. Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

True, but basically they are just hoping to cash in on people who are going to snap anyway for the publicity. There is no actual operational control of these attacks. It is basically a strategy of 'Hope". They Hope someone cracks so they can take the credit. Ultimately, they have very little ability to harm us in the US.

 Easy E wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This appears to be another Lone Wolf attack that ISIS claims "credit" for post-facto. II.e. there is no greater level of operational coordination, just some guy got P.O.ed and snapped. It sort of reminds me of the 90's when postal workers kept losing it and shooting people up.

This. When the same thing happened with Planned Parenthood in the Springs a couple months back, it was less a "terrorist Christian cell" and more a "crazy guy snapped and claimed religious reasons".

With a subtle difference. DaIsh puts out propaganda actively encouraging followers to commit 'lone wolf' type acts. It is part of their strategy, and it works. Not too sure there is some equivalent Christian terrorist organization putting out similar calls for 'lone wolf' type attacks on abortion clinics. Even if you can find an example I will bet it is not nearly as well resourced as what DaIsh does.

True, but basically they are just hoping to cash in on people who are going to snap anyway for the publicity. There is no actual operational control of these attacks. It is basically a strategy of 'Hope". They Hope someone cracks so they can take the credit. Ultimately, they have very little ability to harm us in the US.

There may not be operational control, but there is everything but, from 'how to' articles which address everything from sourcing materials and OPSEC, to very cleverly designed propaganda which does in fact work to radicalize their chosen target set. They don't need 'hope', their actual methods work, and work good enough that we are expending a gak ton of resources to combat the DaIsh propaganda and cyber wings (and not doing a good job of it). They don't need (or want) operational control. It only complicates efforts and puts the leadership and links into jeopardy. They get all the benefits without the risk using the methods they do.

I agree with everything you said.

However, this is also why I can't take the "threat of Islamic terror" as an existential threat. It is criminal and an annoyance in a global political sense. Nothing more.

There goal is to make us react on a scale that is out of step with the threat. I am starting to think it is working.

 djones520 wrote:
Asides from how dumb this whole vein of discussion is...

Why did you start the discussion if you thought it would end up dumb?

 djones520 wrote:

Why wouldn't an organization need to be subversive, if it was actively calling for the death of people, within the Western world.

I did specify "Christian organization" in reference to terrorism.